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Gullible MLM junkies. SOS

RHL

The coaching was a joke guys.
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RIP my sides, I hardly knew ye.

10 Largest MLM companies in the world:

1. Avon Revenue (not profits): $11.3 billion
2. Amway Revenue (not profits): 10.9 Billion
3. Mary Kay Revenue (not profits): 3.5 Billion
4. Herbalife Revenue (not profits): 3.5 Billion
5. Natura Cosmeticos Revenue (not profits): 3.0 Billion
6. Vorwerk & Co. KG Revenue (not profits): 3.0 Billion
7. Tupperware Brands Corp Revenue (not profits): 2.6 Billion
8. Oriflame Cosmetics SA Revenue (not profits): 2.1 Billion
9. Nu Skin Enterprises, Inc. Revenue (not profits):1.7 Billion
10. Belcorp Revenue (not profits): 1.6 Billion

Total revenue (not profits): $43.2 Billion

Bill Gate's personal net worth (profit, not sales): $79.3 billion USD

Bill gates is actually worth more than the top 50 MLM companies worldwide sell in a year. Combined.

But I'm sure if he had to do it over again, he'd start a hard-sell supplement business.
 
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SYK

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I had my first taste of an MLM evangelist yesterday.

I got a message on LinkedIn from a recruiter referencing my day job skills.

A recruiter contacting me on LinkedIn. Not unusual. I'll hear the fella out, I suppose.

A phone call follows minutes later.

Introductions aside, he gets down to (pseudo) business.

"Our company helps other companies market their products and move their sales online."

Talking in vagaries. Responding to my inquisitions with mythical tales of "business partners" making a million a year over the last 30 years.

He's as evasive as a perp in an interrogation room without a lawyer.
This is feeling very slimey.

By now it's clear this is no ordinary business. It's one of particular geometric shape. And not the cool, flashing light up kind like Daft Punk's.

"But what is it your business actually does?" I press.

"It's hard to explain over the phone. Let's meet up. I'll bring my business partners."

Unless you're in the business of building hadron colliders, your business can't be that hard to describe over the phone.

"Ok. There's a video that explains it. I'll send you the link and give you a call back."

Sends me propaganda Goebbels himself would be proud of.

I hold myself together long enough to watch precisely 48 seconds of the video.

"No thanks, mate."

"But but....12 billion dollar business. Mentorship! Entrepreneurialism!"

Faced with my evident disinterest, the random recruitment catch cries slowly trail off. Saved for another day. Another sucker.
 

rc08234

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When I was a bouncer a few years ago a kid I worked with was in love with Vemma. I'd be surprised if he didn't have a vemma tattoo. I tried referencing MJs book telling him he didn't really own anything, and one change in TOS or something could wipe out his cash flow. He didn't believe me and ended up quitting the bouncing gig, I think vemma did end up leasing him a BMW. I saw on FB the other day Vemma got shut down.
 

RHL

The coaching was a joke guys.
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Yussef

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Just as an update to show what happens long term in these situations over 9k of these victims couldn't get a check via the receivership because of "cost inefficiencies." That means the amount of the check were to small to even bother with writing one. Here is a link to the 2015 receivership disbursements. Just sad but worthy of note. Zeek Rewards Receivership
 

Yussef

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My whole family including myself is on Zeek Rewards. For the record - it's not a scam. They actually do pay out. I discovered the fast lane forum & book a few weeks after Zeek and realized what crazy move my family made. To be honest, it's not that crazy. It's def. slow lane and just one of our "side" things.
Kind of curious to know if your feelings have changed?
 

MJ DeMarco

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Just as an update to show what happens long term in these situations over 9k of these victims couldn't get a check via the receivership because of "cost inefficiencies." That means the amount of the check were to small to even bother with writing one. Here is a link to the 2015 receivership disbursements. Just sad but worthy of note. Zeek Rewards Receivership

For the record - it's not a scam.

Famous last words from the drones of MLM. To bad reality didn't agree much with your "for the record".

Kind of curious to know if your feelings have changed?

I doubt you'll hear anything. When this forum proves any kind of "told you so", it's a lock that the user never shows their face again. Kinda sad because these failures are teachable moments, not moments to bury your head in the sand. Reminds me of the swing trade thread when I cautioned the "trader" on the risk he was taken and to post the moment WHEN a trade went south. After big losses.... Crickets.
 
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FunnelMonster

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Sadly in these deals, only the top guy goes to jail, so the 2nd-10th scammer usually just go on to find another deal.

These guys know it will blow up.. They don't know when, but they know.
Or they just pay a fine and no-one goes to jail :rolleyes:
 

RHL

The coaching was a joke guys.
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Bump; we've hit the peak of MLM fail without crossing over into fully criminal ponzi territory.

Here, a woman uses a facebook timeline memory from around the time of her husband's death to hawk Plexus products.

Don't let this be you folks. Save your friends. Save your dignity. Save your self-respect. MLM: Not even once.
 

mws87

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Bump; we've hit the peak of MLM fail without crossing over into fully criminal ponzi territory.

Here, a woman uses a facebook timeline memory from around the time of her husband's death to hawk Plexus products.

Don't let this be you folks. Save your friends. Save your dignity. Save your self-respect. MLM: Not even once.
The more I learn about MLM's, the more I seem to run into people pushing them.

When I worked for an auto dealer I had a guy come in to look at an Alfa Romeo. The red flags were everywhere: "I'm my own boss", "this car is, like, one paycheck for me", "we're always looking for good people" etc.

I knew what he was getting at and, because I didn't want to waste my time nor his any further, bypassed his bait and got to the point.

Needless to say, he didn't buy lol. He called me recently and wanted to offer me an opportunity. I humored the idea and, within 15 minutes of researching the dude, found him on a bunch of websites defending MLM's in the comments sections. Found his company with countless reports on ripoff report (which I usually take with a grain of salt) .

I declined his offer.

It's funny, once you learn their lingo, it all looks and sounds the same.
 
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Simon Ashari

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Bump; we've hit the peak of MLM fail without crossing over into fully criminal ponzi territory.

Here, a woman uses a facebook timeline memory from around the time of her husband's death to hawk Plexus products.

Don't let this be you folks. Save your friends. Save your dignity. Save your self-respect. MLM: Not even once.

At first I laughed my a$$ off. But that's quite sad.

I guess people will do anything to hang onto a dream.
 

TonyStark

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I had this guy at my soccer practice try to get me to go to one of his seminars. I thought he was just being friendly at first, inviting my to go to Houston with him. But, upon further questioning I knew he was trying to sell me something. He kept using frivolous words like opportunity, and seminar. I was like...hmmm maybe not.
 

Rawr

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Man..reading this thread, and remembering when you were at 0, and how stuff like this actually gave enough hope to think of it as a 'way out' or a 'way to success', it's a better motivation than a thousand lambo posters.
 
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@Andy Black

All I can see in this thread is one massive, irrefutable argument that if you hit at least MJ's level of net worth - at an early age - it would be stupid NOT to start YOUR OWN MLM business.

Not getting in someone else's pyramid.

Starting your own, after you hit the $10,000,000 mark. Basically, enough money to mind-f*ck people.

I'm not there yet, but when I do get there...

Starting an MLM company - after attaining massive success - would be as profitable as it would be hilarious and fun.

If it is indeed a pyramid scheme, might as well occupy the tip of the top of it.

Some Food for Thought from CNBC


You know the companies—Amway, Herbalife, NuSkin, Mary Kay— even newcomers like Visalus. They promote the opportunity to strike it rich, or even just make a little extra money

But are they pyramid schemes? (Read More: From High Energy Clubs to Dashed Dreams: Herbalife Tales.)

That's the question that has followed the multi-level marketing industry for years. These companies, which offer the opportunity to make money by selling products and recruiting other distributors, insist they're not pyramid schemes.

The trouble, according to Joe Mariano, president of the Direct Selling Association, the industry's trade group, is that "there are a lot of pyramid schemes that like to disguise themselves as legitimate direct-selling companies. That creates an environment where there can be confusion."
But even if they're not pyramid schemes, the chances of making any money with multi-level marketing—let alone striking it rich—appear to be remote. (Read More: 'Don't Call Me a Multi-Level Marketer'.)

First, a primer: Multi-level marketing is a form of direct selling. In traditional direct selling, a salesperson sells a product (the classics are vacuum cleaners and encyclopedias) directly to a customer—and gets a good chunk of the profit.

With multi-level marketing—often involving nutritional supplements, weight loss products, cleaning products and various types of housewares—products are sold through a network of distributors. They earn income from the sales they make themselves as well as from people they've recruited to become distributors–otherwise known as their "down-line." (Read More: How Multi-Level Marketers Dodged a Bullet.)

The Federal Trade Commission, which regulates multi-level marketers, warns in a recently revised "consumer protection" page on its website:

Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it's not. It's a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money.

Determining whether a multi-level marketer is a pyramid scheme is difficult, however.

"Identifying a pyramid scheme masquerading as an multi-level marketer requires a fact-intensive inquiry," the FTC said in one report. It "entails a complex economic analysis including an in-depth examination of the compensation structure and the actual manner in which compensation flows within an organization."

The Direct Selling Association downplays concerns about pyramid schemes and even losses from those who participate in mulit-level marketing. On its website, the trade group says a random survey in 2002 shows more than half of all "direct sellers report their net income from direct selling, after taxes and expenses, is positive."

The group also says its surveys show that from 2001 to 2003, the average annual turnover rate in direct sales was 56 percent. (Read More: Multi-Level Marketing Critic: Beware 'Main Street Bubble'.)

But plenty of critics, including Robert Fitzpatrick, who operates the website Pyramid Scheme Alert, insist that more than 99 percent lose money, with the turnover rate at some companies exceeding 90 percent every year.

"If you have to recruit—then the ones you recruit have to recruit," Fitzpatrick said. "Now you're in a chain letter. And on a chain letter, most people are going to lose. Most being 90 percent to 99 percent."

Perhaps nothing is more important than understanding the company's compensation plan. However, it's often easier said than done, because most plans contain complex payout formulas.

"Opaque" is the way Davidson & Co. analyst Tim Ramey, a fan of multi-level marketer Herbalife, describes Herbalife's plan. (Read More: Activist Investor Dan Loeb Takes 8% Stake in Herbalife .)

"They do make available their documents and you can go through them," Ramey said in a CNBC interview. "It's a couple-hundred-page long document."

And therein lies the problem: So many of these businesses, legal or not, are simply too complicated.

While there is no easy way to spot a pyramid, among the things to consider:

• Just because a company says it sells a product, doesn't guarantee it's legit. The FTC warns that some schemes can simply use claims of product sales to hide their pyramid structure.

• Don't be fooled by the claims it's not a pyramid because you don't have to spend a lot of money up front. CNBC's investigation found that many companies try to get customers so excited about the product that they want to join the "business opportunity."

• Qualifying for certain levels of bonuses requires various levels of product purchases and other associated costs. Not all companies require a bona-fide customer order before a distributor purchases product.

And that gets to a more difficult question: How many sales are typically to customers not associated with the company? It's an important and highly nuanced question any distributor should ask.

Direct-seller Melaleuca, for example, which insists it is not a multi-level marketing firm, says "all commissions and bonuses are based on sales to end consumers."

Melaleuca says that every month 62.2 percent of sales come from customers who are not and have never been distributors. Another 23 percent who were once distributors continue to buy the product for personal use.

Herbalife doesn't distinguish between end customers and distributors and says it doesn't track that number. (Read More: Reasons to Worry About Herbalife: Greenberg.)

In an interview with CNBC, David Vladeck, until recently the director of the bureau of enforcement at the FTC, said—without referring to any company in particular—that it would be a "red flag" if an multi-level marketer couldn't say how much of its sales went to end customers. (Read More: Herbalife Disputes Ackman's Claim of 'Pyramid Scheme'.)

As for party plans, like Tupperware, Fitzpatrick sees them as the least problematic "because they do, in theory at least, have a retail sales model—parties. The parties are potentially viable, at least a few would be, perhaps enough to get back initial investments or not lose much."

What's a potential recruit to do?

The FTC advises consumers who are considering joining an multi-level marketer to ask as many questions as possible. (Read More: Before You Join: Six Questions to Ask.)

Its list includes: "What's the company's track record? What products does it sell? How does it back up claims it makes about its product? Is the product competitively priced? Is it likely to appeal to a large customer base? What up-front investment do you have to make to join the plan? Are you committed to making a minimum level of sales each month? Will you be required to recruit new distributors to be successful in the plan?"

And if you start recruiting new distributors, keep this in mind: The FTC warns that you're responsible for any claims you make about a distributor's earnings potential. "Avoid making unrealistic promises. If those promises fall through, remember that you could be held liable," cautions the regulator.

This final tip: Just because a company says it trades on the New York Stock Exchange, or any exchange, doesn't mean it is better or worse than one that doesn't. Trading on the NYSE is not the equivalent of a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. It only means the company met certain requirements to be listed there."

By CNBC's Herb Greenberg and Karina Frayter; Follow Herb on Twitter @herbgreenberg ; Follow Karina on Twitter @kfrayter
 
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Vigilante

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I rented a million dollar house for a month on the coast of Honolulu a few years back. Beautiful place, with majestic acreage and a rock line of crashing waves on the Pacific. It was one of eight similar houses the owners had across the world. In the bathroom? Free samples of the owners NuSkin products. He was one of the several original founders.

I'm not opposed to owning a MLM. I am opposed to working in someone else's downline, and selling bullshit. The owners of NuSkin did neither.
 

RHL

The coaching was a joke guys.
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I'm not opposed to owning a MLM. I am opposed to working in someone else's downline, and selling bullshit. The owners of NuSkin did neither.

The line is different for different people. For me, I'm opposed to business enterprises that kind of make you a value vampire. I want the kind of product where people see the up-sell and spend more money, and leave thinking "wow, I got some great stuff." Sure, killer photos, killer copy, make it look as good as you can, but don't lie about it. The kind of product where they unwrap it and say, "yeah!" Not the kind of product where people leave the transaction thinking "Oh F*ck. Did that really just happen?"

In my opinion, the later is using pressure, psychology, tricky bait-and-switch (Just sign now, you have 48 hours to cancel; number to cancel doesn't work) and (in the case of MLMs) family ties, to cheat the grind: MLMs sell noncompetitive, low-value shit at high value prices . It's the same way that Comcast uses corrupt governments and agreements with other telecom giants to enforce monopolies, because they know that as soon as Google Fiber or even a smaller residential fiber provider moves in, the only customers they'll keep are those who are too ignorant/elderly to know better, because they provide shit value, shit customer service, shit product, and, as a result, their whole biz will go to shit the minute competition arrives.

MLMs are Taxis in an Uber world. They're Comcast in a Google Fiber world. To me, they transgress the very heart of honest capitalism, value exchanged for money, money exchanged for solving needs. Instead, they vampirize the value a person built up in their life via social contracts and blood relations and familial fondness, expending it all quickly (alienating friends and family) to make a few dollars. They add no value, they just use chicanery to extract from others the value that was already inherent in their relationships. Cutco and Vemma aren't in Target or Amazon because they couldn't compete in an open market on value proposition alone.

I mean, there are probably mega bucks to be made going the Nestle route and literally tricking women in the third world into buying their product or having their babies starve to death. Some things just aren't worth the money.
 
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RHL

The coaching was a joke guys.
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Damn, I want a private island too. Better start thinking about what MLM to start instead of this ecommerce stuff.

I did some quick research on you, and discovered data on your net worth.

Vladamir Putin: $200 Billion Dollar Net Worth

Putin, not even worth $1,000,000,000 - or worth $200,000,000,000+?

Pretty impressive, considering you only make a six-figure salary "on the books."



Although no one really knows how much money you have, I think you have enough money for a non-"K-mart" island.

On the morality scale, dictatorship = running an MLM.

The profitability scale, dictatorship > running an MLM.
 
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jazb

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Absolute brutal gem from this man:

http://davidjwbailey.com/2014/03/10/how-do-you-tell-your-friends-the-truth-about-mlm-schemes/

''Every couple of years a friend of mine asks me to an event to share some fabulous new opportunity or product with me that they are now “in business” with. Every time, without exception, I have ended up having a very unpleasant discussion with them about how Multi-Level Marketing really works, and what it implies about their judgment, financial acumen and lack of respect for their real friends and family.

The truth is that joining an MLM does make you a bad person, or at least reveals that deep down you already were one.

How dare I say this? Because it is true. Let me explain the key points quickly then develop them in more detail:

  1. You are vulnerable, and foolish enough to reveal this to predators
  2. You are lazy
  3. You are unable to do even basic web research on financial or scientific matters
  4. You are willing to lie to make money
  5. You are willing to steal from your friends to gain wealth
  6. You are dumb enough to spend every hour of your life on something that has a 1% chance of being profitable for you.
It is unfashionable to blame the victims, and that is exactly what I’m not doing. Anyone who participates in an MLM does so knowing, on one level or other, what they are doing is wrong. They are not victims. They are willing participants in a fraudulent scheme. They just hope that the fraud will benefit them.

Vulnerability
My personal experience of people who take to multilevel marketing schemes is that either they are massively dissatisfied with the current employment or they are not currently in employment. In either case they are extremely financially vulnerable. That in itself is not a significant character weakness, because we’ve all been in that situation.

ARTICLE CONTINUED AT SOURCE LOCATION.
PLEASE VISIT
http://davidjwbailey.com/2014/03/10/how-do-you-tell-your-friends-the-truth-about-mlm-schemes/
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Absolute brutal gem from this man:

Sorry but I had to edit your post as you can't copy an entire article and post it here as it is a disservice to the article author/owner.

I've deleted most of it and included a link to the source material so readers can read it in its entirety there. And yup, it's a great piece.
 

jazb

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Sorry but I had to edit your post as you can't copy an entire article and post it here as it is a disservice to the article author/owner.

I've deleted most of it and included a link to the source material so readers can read it in its entirety there. And yup, it's a great piece.

my bad. didn't know how to quote the article.
 
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Andy Black

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Sorry but I had to edit your post as you can't copy an entire article and post it here as it is a disservice to the article author/owner.

I've deleted most of it and included a link to the source material so readers can read it in its entirety there.
Good point. I've just gone through a lot of my threads where I've copy/pasted great articles (and linked back to them), and just linked to them instead.
 

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I was in it for a few months because of my curiosity. I participated in some events where some gurus were telling me and other people in the room some "secret" bullshit and that all people who aren't involving in this "great opportunity" are average (most of my friend.

The guy that got me in just called me and guess what? I told him that I don't want to do this "business". I was trying to say it politely and after all he started to ask me questions like "how much money do you make right now?" "I've seen so many people giving up just a step before reaching the goal (3$ a month XDDD) and you're one of them" blablabla etc. It was weird. He had no respect for me just because of the fact I'm not involved in this stupid game anymore. This guy also called me blind. Hahahaha

Another thing I've noticed is that they are like zombies or robots. They can't talk about anything else but products of the mlm company or "making money". They're making no value, it's simply a scam. If you want to have no friends and make a few bucks lying to people, then it's great.
 
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mtn_baldy

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I was in it for a few months because of my curiosity. I participated in some events where some gurus were telling me and other people in the room some "secret" bullshit and that all people who aren't involving in this "great opportunity" are average (most of my friend.

The guy that got me in just called me and guess what? I told him that I don't want to do this "business". I was trying to say it politely and after all he started to ask me questions like "how much money do you make right now?" "I've seen so many people giving up just a step before reaching the goal (3$ a month XDDD) and you're one of them" blablabla etc. It was weird. He had no respect for me just because of the fact I'm not involved in this stupid game anymore. This guy also called me blind. Hahahaha

Another thing I've noticed is that they are like zombies or robots. They can't talk about anything else but products of the mlm company or "making money". They're making no value, it's simply a scam. If you want to have no friends and make a few bucks lying to people, then it's great.

Seriously, these people make me sick.
I've been collecting Robert Kiyosaki books "business in the 21st century" for the last couple years. Every time someone tries to waste my time with these pitches, I always steal their copy of the book that they seem to have an unlimited supply of.

Sitting on 6 copies right now :)
 
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Im sure that this isnt the case for ALL people who do MLMs, but from where I am from, most of the people who get involved in MLMs are the ones who don't really have any chance of making real money. They have dead-end careers, they aren't part of any networks, and they didn't have any wealth passed down, so making enough money to be comfortable will never be a reality. That is why they cling so hard to these schemes. Its the only way for them to live the life they want to (even though they will never reach success).

After leaving school I worked for a county Food and Nutrition office (Food Stamps). I would need more fingers and toes to count how many times a food stamp client has asked me "Do you want to make an extra $5,000 to $10,000 a month?".....:(
 
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Dunkafelics

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Hey all, quick question. Has anyone come across an MLM or ponzi scheme which involves investing money, but getting a payout quickly? I've got a few co-workers who are involved in one where they invest $5,000, recruit 14 people below them and then get paid out $40,000. I am trying to find information on this quick method so I can bring information to them that contradicts this, but the majority of ponzi schemes listed online are the ones that have scammed millions.
 

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