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RANT Florida Teachers Can What?

You're IN a theater and a lunatic w/a pistol decides to shoot up the place. Where would u rather be?

  • Dallas, Texas

    Votes: 20 71.4%
  • Toronto, Canada

    Votes: 8 28.6%

  • Total voters
    28
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Samix

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Shooters are cowards. When they know that the first person they start shooting at shoots back, they'll go find another movie theater or somewhere else to play their cowardly act. Gun free zones are a joke. Soft targets are why assholes pick elementary schools.

I am 100% for it. Waiting for the first news story of some jackass getting their head blown off by a kindergarten teacher, and the whole bunch of copycat cowards will find somewhere else, and my kid will come home safely.
This is exactly what I thought when I read it. They only go there because it's declared 'gun-free' and now the school may not be the easy massacre that they had hoped it would be.
 

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AgainstAllOdds

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Sad that my own country doesn't have these kind of means to enable everyone to protect themselves.

We've got stupid goons who prowl the streets looking to nab or stab someone.
Surely a few revolver shots should send them begging on their knees...
That sucks man.

Some thoughts slightly off topic...

What a lot of people don't realize is that there's a lot of peace of mind benefits to owning and carrying a gun other than the ones mentioned in this thread. For business owners, a big one is knowing that no one can come and just take your business.

I've heard horror stories from friends of friends that tried to build successful businesses in Asia. They start out, work their a$$ off, and get traction. Once they get traction, they attract attention. Once they attract attention, they attract the mafia. The mafia comes, and asks for a percentage. As the business grows, they ask for more. Until finally, they come and have you sign over the business. Nothing you can do about it.

Meanwhile in the U.S., good luck pulling that stunt.

Organized crime obviously still exists, but nowhere near the level that it does in other countries. My dad came here from a former Soviet bloc country, and to this day has irrational fears from his upbringing. He believes that if you take a competitor's clients, that someone will eventually come for you. It's irrational fears like those which prevent a lot of people from starting a business. My mindset: maybe someone will come, but F*ck it. I don't have a family to lose, and we typically have enough guns around us to take out most maniacs. Put your head down. Provide value. Grow the business. Don't worry about things you shouldn't be worried about.
 

socaldude

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I think it's 100% right.

The Supreme Court has ruled that no law enforcement official has any duty to protect you or me. They don't have to risk their lives for anybody.

Then to deny individuals the option to self-defense is morally wrong.

I think anybody with training could have the right judgment and dexterity to handle a firearm.
 

Yzn

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That sucks man.

Some thoughts slightly off topic...

What a lot of people don't realize is that there's a lot of peace of mind benefits to owning and carrying a gun other than the ones mentioned in this thread. For business owners, a big one is knowing that no one can come and just take your business.

I've heard horror stories from friends of friends that tried to build successful businesses in Asia. They start out, work their a$$ off, and get traction. Once they get traction, they attract attention. Once they attract attention, they attract the mafia. The mafia comes, and asks for a percentage. As the business grows, they ask for more. Until finally, they come and have you sign over the business. Nothing you can do about it.

Meanwhile in the U.S., good luck pulling that stunt.

Organized crime obviously still exists, but nowhere near the level that it does in other countries. My dad came here from a former Soviet bloc country, and to this day has irrational fears from his upbringing. He believes that if you take a competitor's clients, that someone will eventually come for you. It's irrational fears like those which prevent a lot of people from starting a business. My mindset: maybe someone will come, but F*ck it. I don't have a family to lose, and we typically have enough guns around us to take out most maniacs. Put your head down. Provide value. Grow the business. Don't worry about things you shouldn't be worried about.
Happens here everyday.
Location: poorer countries of the Middle-East.
 

G-Man

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I think it's 100% right.

The Supreme Court has ruled that no law enforcement official has any duty to protect you or me. They don't have to risk their lives for anybody.

Then to deny individuals the option to self-defense is morally wrong.

I think anybody with training could have the right judgment and dexterity to handle a firearm.
From a cop friend: We can't protect anybody. We can't be everywhere all the time. All we can really do is figure out what happened and try to catch the person that did it after the fact.

Something to think about. I think a more succinct way I've heard it put is: Police aren't there to prevent someone from killing you, they're there to identify the body.

EDIT: This is not criticism of the police. It's not their fault that they can't be everywhere all the time and lack the ability to predict the future.
 

WJK

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Not really a militia guy. But having grown up with firearms and live in Az where you can hunt and shoot year round, I'm a strong believer in freedom. I carry almost every day, not in the office though. My point is that they should have every right to defend their life and take responsibility for protecting the young they are entrusted with with every possible tool they have available. I would have no issue to my kids teacher carrying.
I live in Alaska, and we carry a weapon most of the time. It's an "open carry state" where you don't need a permit. The Troopers are 45 minutes from us, so we must handle all types of situations ourselves. And no, I have NEVER drawn my weapon on a two legged critter (a person). Bears, coyotes, wolves, and moose are a different story. But, everyone around us knows that both my husband and I are packing most of the time. I grew up in Ozark Mountains in Missouri with a gun in one hand and fishing pole in the other. A gun is natural in my hand. When I must shoot, I don't miss -- I shoot to kill.
My reputation in my community gleans me an aurora of respect. People really don't mess with me much. (And I have a bunch of men around me that would tear anyone to pieces who would dare to be disrespectful.) Everyone knows that I run a very tight ship with my mobile home park, my tenants, and my investments. I have 50 kids who live on my property and watch after them all. I have helped people to point where I have become the "mother duck" around here. It's my life's work. And in the end, I am being rewarded for all of the blood, sweat, and tears I put into it, by gaining my community's respect. What more can a person ask for?
 

AdamMaxum

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Is the answer to combat gun violence/protect yourself or those around you... to give/encourage more people to have their own guns to protect themselves and others? I don't know. Where does it end? Until every respectable citizen has a concealed carry permit to protect themselves? Every worker in every public place has a gun on them? Kids working at movie theatres. Teachers. My waitress/waiter. The walmart greeter.

I'm not against guns, I just don't know if I want to live in a World where it becomes required (for your safety) to own and possess a gun anytime you go out because there is a risk of being shot/attacked, but I guess that's the World we live in.
 

MJ DeMarco

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I just don't know if I want to live in a World where it becomes required (for your safety) to own and possess a gun anytime you go out because there is a risk of being shot/attacked
Not really realistic, if a lunatic wants to shoot up some place, you only need one or two "friendlies" who can stop the bloodshed. You don't need the entire place to be packing.
 

G-Man

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The walmart greeter.
You clearly haven't been in a Walmart lately. Not a chance I'd be hanging out at the front door of that place after dark without a strap :rofl:
 

AdamMaxum

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Not really realistic, if a lunatic wants to shoot up some place, you only need one or two "friendlies" who can stop the bloodshed. You don't need the entire place to be packing.
True, but if it becomes the expectation...that's where we're headed.

Example: Florida allows it...it works out...then every other state begins adopting the practice until kids everywhere have now become conditioned to expect teachers in schools everywhere to be armed. It now becomes a standard that most teachers abide by.

Duplicate this across other industries, public places, etc.etc. More people with more guns.

I'm not even anti-gun or anything...I just don't know if I'm more comfortable knowing there are people all around me with guns or the occasional random shooter I probably won't ever come into contact with.

I definitely think schools need to do more in terms of safety. Better door lock systems...better trained guards...metal detector systems at every door...whatever else.

I think every movie theatre and public place should have at least 1-2 security guys -- it should become the businesses responsibility to ensure their employees or the public be safe while at their location, not the actual employees themselves.
 

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xmartel

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Canada, eh!
True, but if it becomes the expectation...that's where we're headed.

Example: Florida allows it...it works out...then every other state begins adopting the practice until kids everywhere have now become conditioned to expect teachers in schools everywhere to be armed. It now becomes a standard that most teachers abide by.

Duplicate this across other industries, public places, etc.etc. More people with more guns.

I'm not even anti-gun or anything...I just don't know if I'm more comfortable knowing there are people all around me with guns or the occasional random shooter I probably won't ever come into contact with.

I definitely think schools need to do more in terms of safety. Better door lock systems...better trained guards...metal detector systems at every door...whatever else.

I think every movie theatre and public place should have at least 1-2 security guys -- it should become the businesses responsibility to ensure their employees or the public be safe while at their location, not the actual employees themselves.
Personally I'm more comfortable knowing there are good people around me with guns. It's one of the things I enjoy about traveling to the US.

I see two problems with what you're saying.

1. what you're describing with having armed guards everywhere, metal detectors, better locking door systems, etc. It all sounds like you want public spaces to feel like a prison. If life has to feel like we're just living in one large prison, that's a lot of freedom we just gave up. Just so that law abiding citizens can't carry.

2. if every private business is now required to employ guards, think about how many small businesses are going to go out of business. And the ones that survive will have to jack up what they charge for everything just to cover the extra overhead. It'll create a lot of useless employment, but the cost of living will rise dramatically. Plus, if the business is now legally obligated to guard all their patrons against an attack, think of what liability insurance would then cost.
It's a completely inefficient use of money. And is anti-business.

Fun fact. I'm Canadian and don't hold a US passport, green card, of anything of the sort. But I have a concealed carry permit for New Hampshire, and there are 25 odd states that recognize this permit.

A foreign government has evaluated the fact that I have a restricted gun license (ability to own handguns), and determined that since I don't have a criminal record and my government considers me safe to own and use these guns, that I am therefore safe to carry the gun. While my own government considers me a grave threat to the interest of public safety if I were to carry.
 

Roli

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English people in the room when Americans start talking about the right to carry guns, be like...

 
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404profound

404profound

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Yeaaaa, yesterday kinda proves that I was a goddamn lummox for being against teachers being trained and armed. Arm them to the gills!
 

JAJT

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English people in the room when Americans start talking about the right to carry guns, be like...
Canadians as well, but it's important to note that this is simply an issue that many non-Americans just can't relate to and it would be ignorant to casually impose the values of one country or region on another without some serious research and experience to back it up.

In Ontario, where I live, it's reported that only 15% of households own any amount of firearms. That number plummets to 2.8% in cities over 1 million people. So for Ontario, gun ownership is largely a small town / rural thing. Roughly 70% of gun owners claim that hunting is their primary purpose for ownership and less than 5% claim it was for protection.

Hell, you have to jump through hoops just to own a handgun up here and conceal / open carry is outright illegal Canada-wide, from my understanding.

The bottom line (for me) is that the perception of safety is a subjective thing. We feel safe when our expectations for safety are being met, regardless of how objectively safe we actually are. When you live in a place that associates a lack of guns with safety, you naturally object to anything that increases the prevalence of guns. When you live in a place that associates a prevalence of guns with safety, you naturally object to anything that decreases the prevalence of guns.

So while I would 100% object loudly to letting Ontario teachers carry firearms, that doesn't mean that my opinion holds any weight in Florida, where the perception of safety as it relates to guns is totally different.
 

MJ DeMarco

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I've added a poll with a hypothetical...

You're in a movie theater and a lunatic with a pistol decides to shoot up the place. He has multiple clips.

Would you rather be in a movie theater in Toronto Canada?

Or in Dallas Texas?


For me, the answer is a no brainer. I want to be in Dallas because I'm sure one of my fellow citizens will be there to help stop it. In Canada, you'll be dead before help arrives.
 

Charnell

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Responsible gun owners don't do irresponsible things with their gun.
Gun free zones are a target for criminals.
Shooting a gun is therapeutic.
You don't need the entire place to be packing.
But it helps hahaha

I have 2 ARs at home, one I built myself spring by spring. Also spent some time in the military. What I wouldn't mind seeing is required safety courses for any gun owner. It's hard to recount all the times I've had friends handle my weapons carelessly out of ignorance (finger on the trigger, flagging/pointing it at people), but they could go to the store and buy an AR-15 and ammunition within 10 minutes of their background check clearing.

Should be licensed like driving a vehicle, with an hour or two class every few years. However, the problem I see with that is it could be used as a tool to prevent the poor from having access by locating facilities in difficult to get to areas.

Think about the risks. A teacher leaves a gun unattended. A teacher is harassed and looses their temper. The list goes on and on. I don't see how this won't end horribly.
It's very difficult to leave a gun unattended.
How often do we hear about teachers beating up students now?
 

MHP368

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A moment of silence for our valiant fallen school children who died for our second amendment rights

Shootings are so common now that if I see the headline and its not near cho's high score I dont even read the article
 

G-Man

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Funny story about guns in Dallas TX. I have a very liberal boss, not originally from US, who was hiring a security guard for the facility. The guard that he interviewed and liked is an armed one. He was vacillating on whether he felt comfortable having a gun in the building.

One of the sales guys was like "Bad news, boss. I can see 3 guys in this room that have been walking around you with guns in their waistband all day every day for years".

He laughed and was like, "I guess that's okay, if the guard misses we've got backup".

I just assume that at any given time a fair percentage of the people around me are armed. It doesn't bother me. And the only egregious random shooting I've had in my neighborhood was actually an off-duty cop that freaked out and murdered two teenagers. Go figure.
 

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MHP368

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On a more serious note hoe come were just ignoring that the gunmen meet a certain demographic and psychographic 90% of the time? Were gonna keep yelling about gun laws and mental health and not questioning why its so often a lonely white guy?

Another thing , our school system is a holdover from newly industrialized prussia. Pretty sure we have tons of empirical evidence that kids would actually learn more not herded into buildings against their will for forty hours a week. Maybe a simpler solution.
 

Mattie

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Not a fan of guns by any means. It's sad. I understand it's a growing social issue and social problem that began decades ago with gang violence, school shootings, bullying, and it is a huge part Culture to have weapons and the Military point of view of handling things. It's the way our culture works, believing the more restrictions, rules, regulations, procedures, and taking away more freedoms the more you will comply and conform. If you have weapons it means people are afraid of you.
 

G-Man

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On a more serious note hoe come were just ignoring that the gunmen meet a certain demographic and psychographic 90% of the time? Were gonna keep yelling about gun laws and mental health and not questioning why its so often a lonely white guy
Because that would involve confront dysfunction at levels so core to our society that nobody of any political stripe wants to go there.
Another thing , our school system is a holdover from newly industrialized prussia. Pretty sure we have tons of empirical evidence that kids would actually learn more not herded into buildings against their will for forty hours a week. Maybe a simpler solution.
People look at you like you've got three heads if you suggest the best way to prevent school shootings is to not send kids to school. But true.
 

MHP368

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People look at you like you've got three heads if you suggest the best way to prevent school shootings is to not send kids to school. But true
I mean , were arming the teachers and my kindergardener did shooting drills. I think we're passed the point of weird suggestions being off the table.
 

Kak

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I’m surprised we don’t have gun classes for middle schoolers.

Have you seen some of these Russian kids disarming AK-47’s in the blink of an eye?

We’re doomed.
We should. We absolutely should have gun safety classes in middle school.
 

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Roughly 70% of gun owners claim that hunting is their primary purpose for ownership and less than 5% claim it was for protection
In Canada it is illegal to protect yourself with a firearm, maybe even with any "weapon". We have laws in this country to ensure that criminals are better off than citizens when it comes to property rights and defending yourself.

There is a man in Ontario who wrestled a gun from someone breaking into his home, he then shot the criminal with his own firearm. The home owner had the book thrown at him for every gun offence you can possibly think of. There are a few stories like this.

Thankfully in Alberta a rural land owner just had a landmark case. He shot a trespasser and was dragged through the courts.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/okotoks-shooting-homeowner-charges-dropped-1.4716423

He has multiple clips
Magazines.

I think that gun safety should be taught in every school everywhere. They exist. They are out there. We can't just keep our head in the sand. Drill the Four Rules of Gun Safety into every child's head, same as everything else we have them memorize and learn.

#1 Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.
#2 Never let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy.
#3 Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.
#4 Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it.
 

Roli

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Canadians as well, but it's important to note that this is simply an issue that many non-Americans just can't relate to and it would be ignorant to casually impose the values of one country or region on another without some serious research and experience to back it up.
Hence me backing away.

In Ontario, where I live, it's reported that only 15% of households own any amount of firearms. That number plummets to 2.8% in cities over 1 million people. So for Ontario, gun ownership is largely a small town / rural thing. Roughly 70% of gun owners claim that hunting is their primary purpose for ownership and less than 5% claim it was for protection.
Very interesting.

I've added a poll with a hypothetical...

You're in a movie theater and a lunatic with a pistol decides to shoot up the place. He has multiple clips.

Would you rather be in a movie theater in Toronto Canada?

Or in Dallas Texas?


For me, the answer is a no brainer. I want to be in Dallas because I'm sure one of my fellow citizens will be there to help stop it. In Canada, you'll be dead before help arrives.
Either one would be bad, because as far as I'm aware this mythical good guy when he does show up, gets shot by the police. (Though I reserve the right to be wrong, perhaps someone can point me to a story whereby a random stranger shot a lunatic shooter dead and was him/herself not also shot by the police).

But if you were to push me, I'd say Toronto, because it's less likely I get caught in the cross fire of a firefight between said gunman and multiple gun-totting citizens.

Now a zombie apocalypse on the other hand, I'd pretty much choose America over any other country, shotgun blasts do wonders for a zombie's complexion :-D
 

Roli

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Yeaaaa, yesterday kinda proves that I was a goddamn lummox for being against teachers being trained and armed. Arm them to the gills!
What happened yesterday?
 
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