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Dressing For Success... Stop looking like a fool.

Topics relating to managing people and relationships

Late Bloomer

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It's ironic that this is currently the very top hottest discussion topic... on a forum that has enough guys with shirtless profile pics, for a complete water polo team.

Edited to add: #2 or #3 spot for the past few days has been a discussion of lawn service business, started by a guy with no shirt in his profile photo. He's getting plenty of expert advice about the logistics of vans, crews, billing, training, cash flow, weeding, selling the business, liability insurance, advertising, pricing, LLC's, weather, winter projects. Not a single person has pointed out that he really needs a suit and tie. Also, referring to the other next most popular discussion that's trading off for the #2 and #3 spot, nobody has mentioned that he needs to learn how to use the correct fork and not make rich people uncomfortable with a dumb comment about how nice their house is. I guess it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish!
 
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Late Bloomer

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He said to treat everyone and I mean EVERYONE like they are potentially millionaires. He said that the dude that would come in to the store on the weekend wearing flip flops, a t-shirt and shorts probably spent his entire week dressed up doing business deals and what not. He said many very successful people want to get out of those clothes as soon as humanly possible.

He went on to tell me that some of the best sales he ever made were with people that looked like they just woke up and threw clothes on. He said that while everyone else was ignoring those people he was making easy money closing deals with them.

I heard exactly this in a conversation the other day with the person I want to have on my team for web sales. In a high-end retail environment, all the other sales reps immediately went to the people who "dressed rich" and ignored the others. She immediately went to help the customers who were not getting any help from the snobs on staff, and outsold all of them. Her only assumption was that if someone came into the store, she'd give her best attention, empathy, and product guidance she possibly could. She decided to not make any assumptions about the customer's budget, but to listen and ask if needed.

I agree with Kak that dressing like you're the person in charge, whose opinion matters, who can afford the best, will often get you the best service from service providers. And I agree with ChrisR that this means a big profit opportunity for service providers who don't run their businesses based on prejudicial assumptions.
 

Late Bloomer

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How you match colours if you are colour blind

Ask someone who you think always looks stylish, and other people also comment that the person has good taste.

Or, get a color calibrated monitor, camera setup gray card, and use Photoshop's eyedropper tool to discover the colorimetry of each item of clothing. Put it in a database and write an app to tell you which currently clean garments go together. Probably easier to ask the friend with good taste, but that's not scalable for the Fastlane.

Reddit's MFA sub

I only know MFA as an acronym for Master's of Fine Arts. I guess people who are good at art history of famous paintings, might be able to help you choose attractive clothes. But maybe there's another meaning for MFA?
 
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LittleWolfie

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Are the clothes not labelled with colour when sold? On the packaging "mint" or "lilac" or "navy" ? Write it on the label when you get the clothes. Then you can get a colour wheel to figure out which colours go together.(make sure it's one with labels, search on that term) Then it's basically word game.
 

Kak

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Lunch meeting today:

Place... Nice deli downtown. One of my go to business casual places.

5 attendees. I'm leading the meeting.

-Blue blazer with the gold buttons
-solid white french cuff dress shirt
-medium dark jeans
-black Allen Edmonds monkstrap shoes
-black belt
-thin profile watch with black leather strap
 

YoungPadawan

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What do you think of groomed facial hair stubble (like designer facial hair stubble) for professional meetings instead of clean shaven? Do you think people would it's inappropriate or would it be out of place?

I have a baby face when I shave.
 
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Kak

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What do you think of groomed facial hair stubble (like designer facial hair stubble) for professional meetings instead of clean shaven? Do you think people would it's inappropriate or would it be out of place?

I have a baby face when I shave.

Think of a 9 figure millionaire CEO cutting a deal. Without thinking of anything else, what does he look like?

I shave clean every day. It's actually rare among the 40 and under crowd these days. They think they are being rebels with big hipster beards, in reality there isn't really anything unique (or extra manly) about beards or facial hair these days. It’s just facial hair.

I wouldn't really care about facial hair as long as it looks professional. The scraggly beard thing... no.
 
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Raoul Duke

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What about timepieces and haircuts?
 

Kak

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What about timepieces and haircuts?

Professional.

I observe everything from Citizen, Raymond Weil, Apple, Samsung to Rolex and Breitling.

Nothing of weird colors.

Leather strap and thin profile is the most formal. Metal strap is less formal. Rubber is least.

Rubber, in my opinion, is more appropriate for the golf course than in a business environment.
 
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Deleted50669

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You can pick up a pair of Allen Edmonds under $200, they've got clearance sales all the time, including right now on their website, I saw some even in the $100 range.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this about Allen Edmonds, but they also carry large sizes (up to 15 3E I believe). They are my go-to for business formal shoes.
 

Longinus

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What do you think of groomed facial hair stubble (like designer facial hair stubble) for professional meetings instead of clean shaven? Do you think people would it's inappropriate or would it be out of place?

I have a baby face when I shave.

Remember:

36352990_1089916481146683_8523753324971819008_n.jpg
 
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Niptuck MD

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. wearing a suit makes you a massive douche bag imo. or you need to beg investors for $.

poor people usually dress up to look professional, but to me they just look like slaves, its hilarious to see these people jam packed side to side on a train (or better yet a bus!) riding public transit looking all fancy.

this depends on the industry. Maybe in IT or tech fields looking average is ok, however in many other fields dealing with extensive travel overseas, unfortunately jeans are frowned upon ruthlessly.
 

YoungPadawan

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Dami-B

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What do you think of groomed facial hair stubble (like designer facial hair stubble) for professional meetings instead of clean shaven? Do you think people would it's inappropriate or would it be out of place?

I have a baby face when I shave.

I remember vaguely in the book Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, Phil would talk about how his founding team members would have all different kinds of hairstyles and long beards, but he couldn't have one because he always had to negotiate with the bankers for loan extensions, and capital infusion into Nike, so he always had to keep a clean shave and short hair, and dress professionally.
 
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Sheens

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Burberrys' 42L Navy Blue Serge Blazer/Jacket - Gold & Silver Buttons - $1,595.00 | eBay

I thought of this thread when I came across this on ebay for anyone looking for another example of a nice looking sport coat without spending a crazy amount of money or full price on a designer. Buy It Now price $99.95, not sure what shipping was on it.

I would also highly suggest double checking your measurements or having a professional do it for you. But if you end up making your own "Fat guy in a little coat" video (Chris Farley from Tommy Boy) could catch it on video for us!
**absolutely just kidding about making the video, we have all purchased incorrect sizes before. I am strong proponent of dressing for success and thanks for all of your time in this thread Kak!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYB3Fx0a8-4
 
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jmusic

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Lots of good advice on here. I've started to up my suit game after stumbling on Real Men Real Style on YouTube. I had a 3 piece light gray wool suit made when I was in Bahrain, and while the quality is nice, the trousers fit too tight in the seat (I lift so that may be why), and there's no extra fabric to get it taken out. Second suit purchase is a navy 2 piece MTM at a local clothier. Super 160's wool, and the fit is exceptional.

Regarding watches & belts, I always follow this rule: Always match leathers, and always match metals (only allowable exception is a wedding ring). In this regard it helps to have a preference. For me it's dark brown leather and silver metals. The brown leather goes with any color except black (which as mentioned above is best to avoid anyway), and looks GREAT with jeans.

As far as dressing to impress others, I prefer to dress to impress myself. When I really dress up, *I* feel like a million bucks, and that's the only thing that matters to me!

For me, it's the most uncomfortable attire, hands down.
Painful? No.
Aggravating, distracting and borderline claustrophobic? Yes.
I feel the same about just a buttoned up collared shirt.

If a collared shirt feels claustrophobic, it's likely not sized correctly. With off the rack shirts, the collar size also determines the waistline. I'm in between 16.5 and 17, and had to go with a 17 because the 16.5 was almost choking me when I bought a Brooks brothers shirt, but that thing has yards of extra fabric around the midsection. I need to get that one taken in... When I had a shirt MTM at the same clothier, I was able to get a 16.75 collar. Fits perfectly, and not claustrophobic at all.

Regarding matching colors: Jacket and pants need to match EXACTLY (paired suit), or else don't match them at all (compliment instead). In fact, whenever you have your suit cleaned, always send the entire suit to the cleaners whether you've worn all parts of it or not.
 

Niptuck MD

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i must say as a heavily tattooed man of muscular build, the early stages of my career were horrific due to assumptions and unfair and erroneous misjudgments. I had no other choice but to dress up and dress overly in order to be taken seriously at many firms. However it worked for me and unfortunately in the realms of financing/ senior management/ executive purchasing firms and manufacturing firms, I really wish i could go in with something less then a 3 piece suit, but like my rich uncle said, "theres a lot of bastards out here" and we have to impress every angle any way possible. Having a great personality is one thing, but nowadays having the complete arsenal is ever so important. Believe me it sucks, not everyone is in IT/software were we can mark zuckerburg or steve jobs (wearing simple clothes nonchalant casual as F*ck) but unfortunately the old timers that have a firm grasp of many industries still adhere to the clothing standards of yesteryear.
 
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shubham525

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It has come to my attention that few people give this enough thought.

A common theme of my posts is thinking big and leadership. Both of these REQUIRE interaction with other people. Sure you can build some onepreneur super outsourced company and make good money... But the VAST majority of the extremely wealthy got that way by making strategic deals, establishing influence and leading others.

Which brings me to LOOKING THE PART. It's popular, and often considered a badge of honor, in entrepreneurial circles to not own a suit, to almost intentionally dress like sh*t and not give a f*ck. To that, I ask, why? To what end?

I have learned how to dress properly when interacting with influential politicians and high-level C suite executives of very large companies. I have learned how to dress properly when I have to approach the lower offices with hourly workers. From formal meetings to business lunches, I have done it all. To say looking professional in every single interaction pertaining to your business is important would be an understatement.

Now, I'm no expert, but I am observant and have years of experience meeting people in person. There is no excuse not to look your best and present like someone who can back up the talk. It also doesn't have to be expensive.

Ask me anything.
Very well said , dressing accordingly for particular occasions can open a lot of doors.
 

Kak

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For those of you that haven’t started this journey, and might be on a tighter budget... I can recommend JC Penny’s Stafford brand... They make a pretty good product at a bang up price.

I own a couple of sport coats from Stafford. Nobody, including myself, knows the difference between a $150 sport coat and a $400 one. Now, the really high end stuff $1200-1500+, there is a noticeable difference.

Stay away from solid colors from the cheap companies.

I’m a bit of an extremist, as long as I’m buying less than absolute perfection, I might as well get 3 of the cheapest I can find that still look nice.
 
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Niptuck MD

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I own a couple of sport coats from Stafford. Nobody, including myself, knows the difference between a $150 sport coat and a $400 one. Now, the really high end stuff $1200-1500+, there is a noticeable difference

when i first started, i can attest to the stafford brand however it is really subpar in quality. (for heavy usage) when I went to various countries they didnt hold up. Now mind you if you are slowlane by all means a great place to start, but as you progress in skills, income you should seriously invest in the heavy hitting brands of Zegna, John Lobb, Turnbull and Asser, Michael bastian, Burberry, Holland & Sherry etc even used garments from authorized resellers are a good investment. Trust me, it makes a huge difference. People worldwide are much more adept and aware at suits and top brands (not the fake top shit brands like LV, gucci, prada, tommy hilfiger, ralph lauren etc) but true time tested suitors and tailors. Mind you this only applies for those of us that are required to wear suits for our line of work.
 

Kak

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when i first started, i can attest to the stafford brand however it is really subpar in quality. (for heavy usage) when I went to various countries they didnt hold up. Now mind you if you are slowlane by all means a great place to start, but as you progress in skills, income you should seriously invest in the heavy hitting brands of Zegna, John Lobb, Turnbull and Asser, Michael bastian, Burberry, Holland & Sherry etc even used garments from authorized resellers are a good investment. Trust me, it makes a huge difference. People worldwide are much more adept and aware at suits and top brands (not the fake top sh*t brands like LV, gucci, prada, tommy hilfiger, ralph lauren etc) but true time tested suitors and tailors. Mind you this only applies for those of us that are required to wear suits for our line of work.

Interesting perspective. I never thought of the fact that people that are more attire centric in other countries might catch the details that us slobby Americans do not.

I like Stafford stuff for sport coats quite a bit, but I put more effort into my suits. If the sport coats last 2 years I’ll be happy with the purchase.

What I have noticed is the middle-end stuff. The jos a bank, Macy’s, and men’s warehouse suits if you will... That stuff is no better than Stafford, but it’s just sold in a nicer store at twice the price. Even some of the lower end brooks brothers stuff is just Chinese made like Stafford.

Agreed about moving to the much nicer brands there being a nice difference. Almost NOBODY I do business with wears stuff that nice. Around here, even among the lower end millionaires, brooks or banks are pretty much par for the course.
 
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Niptuck MD

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Agreed. however jos a and brooks are actually looked down upon (mostly in europe and in hong kong) I guess it may due to lack of upheld quality over the years.... With that being said, there are so many direct leather and wool suit manufacturers (highest per capita in italy) that it is possible to cut out hte middle man and get high quality goods at a decent price (even new)

like paul evans or ace marks for shoes (my 2nd tier go to pair of oxblood paul evan oxfords is still going strong)
 
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Kak

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Agreed. however jos a and brooks are actually looked down upon (mostly in europe and in hong kong) I guess it may due to lack of upheld quality over the years.... With that being said, there are so many direct leather and wool suit manufacturers (highest per capita in italy) that it is possible to cut out hte middle man and get high quality goods at a decent price (even new)

like paul evans or ace marks for shoes (my 2nd tier go to pair of oxblood paul evan oxfords is still going strong)

Do you know about the canvassing of a jacket?

I have one "fully canvassed" suit and two "fully canvassed" sport coats. They are certainly nice, and supposed to be MUCH better than "fused" Chinese made stuff. Clearly they look nicer, but I don't see a huge difference. Thoughts?
 

Niptuck MD

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There is without a doubt a huge difference especially for the long haul.

Traditionally, men’s suits were constructed with a layer of horsehair canvas underneath the wool fabric shell. This canvas holds the shape of the suit and keeps it from sagging or deforming, much like the foundation of a house keeps it upright.

The canvas lining allows the suit fabric to drape naturally, allowing a clean, well put-together look.

The fussed and half-fuss-half-canvas variants are just horrid as a served foundation and are usually found in the cheap drivel at major box stores.
 

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Niptuck MD

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@Kak i just got a steal of a deal from a haberdashery consignment store, an ISAIA pronounced (ee-sai-ee-ya) super 160 (wool yarn count) suit and pant relatively close to my size (of course some alterations will be made to suit me, always get something a 1/2" measurement wise larger) for 400$ the suit brand new goes for 2000$ at nieman marcus and saks fifth.
 
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Kak

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There is without a doubt a huge difference especially for the long haul.

Traditionally, men’s suits were constructed with a layer of horsehair canvas underneath the wool fabric shell. This canvas holds the shape of the suit and keeps it from sagging or deforming, much like the foundation of a house keeps it upright.

The canvas lining allows the suit fabric to drape naturally, allowing a clean, well put-together look.

The fussed and half-fuss-half-canvas variants are just horrid as a served foundation and are usually found in the cheap drivel at major box stores.

Haha! There we go!

THIS is why I can’t tell the difference between a $400-500 jos a bank and a $150 stafford. Fused. Chinese. Probably the same generic stuff with two different labels on them.

I really like the way Canali fits OTR and we have MTM store in my city too!
 
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jmusic

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There is without a doubt a huge difference especially for the long haul.

Traditionally, men’s suits were constructed with a layer of horsehair canvas underneath the wool fabric shell. This canvas holds the shape of the suit and keeps it from sagging or deforming, much like the foundation of a house keeps it upright.

The canvas lining allows the suit fabric to drape naturally, allowing a clean, well put-together look.

The fussed and half-fuss-half-canvas variants are just horrid as a served foundation and are usually found in the cheap drivel at major box stores.

Arun Silva is right on the money, and explains one of the major differences between nicer suit jackets and the cheap crap (extra fabric for tailoring purposes, lining, sewing & fabric quality, and the finer details being many of the others). I've heard that some of the super cheap suits that you can find in Asia are actually canvassed with newsprint!


Good information, but his suit jacket is actually too tight.
 

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