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HOT TOPIC Dressing For Success... Stop looking like a fool.

raad182

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@raad182 Would I be correct to assume you haven’t read all 12 pages of this thread? You seem to be commenting thinking that the thread is a “dress for success and success will come” school of thought. It is not.

What it is about is this: in virtually every business situation you could encounter as an entrepreneur you are better off being the best dressed as opposed to the worst.

When you see somebody like Mark Zuckerberg in his jeans and t-shirt, it is not his “I don’t give a sh*t” attitude so much as he has bigger problems so he standardized his outfit.

What MJ is referring to in his book is what we strive for, but for your benefit, do not mistake his “FU” appearance with a blanket idea of “entrepreneurs can dress however they want”

P.s. everything @GPM said above is correct. Kak is too modest to say those things about himself but read some of his gold threads and you’ll quickly see why it’s best to listen to his advice.
Hey @MTEE1985 , you are correct and I've misunderstood the thread but lets not waste more time on this(my mistake). Considering what GPM said above, I should invest my time in building something before talking.
 

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Personally speaking I want to dress good enough but then do not want to expend to much money/mental energy figuring out each morning what to wear. What I started some time ago is wearing always the same everyday (black t shirt and jeans) , this can also apply to dressing good of course and then you simplify your life. I have heard Barack Obama used to wear always the same suit in order to liberate a bit of decision fatigue in his life.
 
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The Abundant Man

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"A lot of men-especially in the United States-dismiss personal style and taste as the exclusive domain of the metrosexual, the feminie, and the gay. Real men don't care about clothes, decor, or beauty, the tell themselves between heated discussion about their fantasy football lineups. That stuff is for chicks and guys who like dicks!

There's no other way to put it: men who think this way are penis pilots destined for failure and loneliness.

FOr many of you younger guys, it's not your fault. Notions of masculinity have been tossed around like a ping pong ball in a hurricane for the last fifity years. Hw can we expect to have any idea of what to do or how to do it when sexual and social more keep changing and you get so many mixed messages from the media?

So let's not talk about the last fifty years of social development; let's talk about the last fifty thousand generations of sexual selection. Across thousands of animal species, over the millenia, females have been using the beauty trait-sexual ornament-as the main signal of genetic quality in selecting mates. Awesome male style is a very ancient thing.

In fact, Charles Darwin realized that female choice for beauty and style explains why the males of so many species evolved amazing, intricate physical traits. It's the male peacock who has all the pretty feathers. The male cardinal is the bright red one. The male lion has the giant, lush mane. In nature, it's the men who usually dress up, not the women.

These conspicuous displays evovled to signal to female eyes and brains that the male who possessed them was so fit, strong, and capable that he could easily afford to spend his energy lugging around risky, unnecessary bullshit to get their attention. Sexual ornaments like feathers and sexy manes don't help the male's survival. but they do something much more important, they help attract mates and reproduce.

This principle of attracting mate through conspicuous beauty and style extends int human courtship and mating in every culture. Self-ornamentation with hairstyles, accessories and sepcial clothing, for instance, is universal across both sexes in all hunter-gatherer tribal peoples and modern cultures and has deep evolutionary roots. Archaeologists found that humans have been ornamenting themselves with red ocher pigments and shell-bead necklaces for at least 90,000 years. Even Neanerthals were ornamenting themselves with cut, notched, polished, talons from white-tailed eagles 130,000 years ago. There is even evidence that our ancestors were selecting mates for their artisitics skill in making stone tools since long before we were humans-over 1.5 millions years ago.

Women pay a lot more attention that you realize to your stylisj sexual ornaments, your aritistic and musical skills, your appreciation of beauty andthe whole aesthetic dimension of your life: your grooming, scent, clothes, car, music, furnishings, apartment, Instagram-feed, online dating profile, and everything else. All these things are reliable signs to women of who you are and how well you've cultivated your other traits-especially your mental health, intelligence, willpower and empathy, If you neglect all these aesthetic signals just because you thing they're metrosexual, feminine or gay you might as well shoot your own dick off, it's not like you're going to need it anyway.

Because women, instinctively think about your whole appearance, lifestyle, adn set of possessions as a work of art, they want everything your life to be stylish, beautfiul, creative, clean and well maintained.

Guys who are good at aesthetic proof understand this and use good taste to guide every decision in their lives; which neighborhoods to live in,, which restaurant to book for a date, which wine to order, which bedroom candles to buy, which condom to wear. These may seem to be unrelated decisions but they all add up to form your aesthetic proof. "

- Mate by Tucker Max(Founder of Book-in-a-Box and Author of Assholes Finish First and I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell) and Dr. Geoffrey Miller(Professor of Evolutionary Psychology at the University of New Mexico and Author of The Mating Mind and Spent: How our Sexual Choices Affect Consumerism)
 
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Kak

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Personally speaking I want to dress good enough but then do not want to expend to much money/mental energy figuring out each morning what to wear. What I started some time ago is wearing always the same everyday (black t shirt and jeans) , this can also apply to dressing good of course and then you simplify your life. I have heard Barack Obama used to wear always the same suit in order to liberate a bit of decision fatigue in his life.
I have actually done the same to an extent. 90% of my dress shirts are white or some kind of white. Why? Because it usually works no matter which suit I choose. Results may vary and we all have our systems. This is one of mine. Good post!

By the way guys, I don't sit around in my home office in a suit all day if that is what you are envisioning. I will be home all day so I am currently wearing a comfy pair of wrangler jeans (don't get me started on designer jeans) and a Brooks Brothers polo shirt.
 

Olimac21

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I have actually done the same to an extent. 90% of my dress shirts are white or some kind of white. Why? Because it usually works no matter which suit I choose. Results may vary and we all have our systems. This is one of mine. Good post!

By the way guys, I don't sit around in my home office in a suit all day if that is what you are envisioning. I will be home all day so I am currently wearing a comfy pair of wrangler jeans (don't get me started on designer jeans) and a Brooks Brothers polo shirt.
Glad you found it useful, I think this one can help a lot of people to organize their wardrobe: http://theessentialman.com/how-to-create-minimalist-wardrobe/
 
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Dark Water

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@Kak Good morning, appreciate the thread. Have read through most of it and would like to hear your opinion on Banana Republic. Its currently making up the bulk of my attire, and has been since I graduated college (mid 20s now). The other portion of it is Polo, but feel both are leaning heavily on business casual as well as towards fashion. I'm only concerned with a professional appeal, not the fashion/luxury side of things too much. Like plain Oxfords as opposed to embroidered logos.

I've seen you mention Brooks Brothers a few times, and while I'm in no hurry to replace my current clothing, I will check it out for future clothes as needed, just like a shirt here, or a blazer there. I'm kind of shooting for that, as you mentioned somewhere in this thread, "timeless American business look" instead of all of these pseudo places that pop up like Express.
 
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@Kak Good morning, appreciate the thread. Have read through most of it and would like to hear your opinion on Banana Republic. Its currently making up the bulk of my attire, and has been since I graduated college (mid 20s now). The other portion of it is Polo, but feel both are leaning heavily on business casual as well as towards fashion. I'm only concerned with a professional appeal, not the fashion/luxury side of things too much. Like plain Oxfords as opposed to embroidered logos.

I've seen you mention Brooks Brothers a few times, and while I'm in no hurry to replace my current clothing, I will check it out for future clothes as needed, just like a shirt here, or a blazer there. I'm kind of shooting for that, as you mentioned somewhere in this thread, "timeless American business look" instead of all of these pseudo places that pop up like Express.
I personally don't bring my money to Express or Banana Republic... That isn't to say there isn't good stuff there though. One visit to their websites kind of alludes to a very fashion forward eccentricity that I don't personally care for.

Yes, I error on the side of timeless and conservative. Ralph Lauren has a lot of timeless stuff and some outlandish. Brooks Brothers is almost all timeless.

Considering your goal to look professional as possible. If it looks like something a celebrity would wear... It's too much, in my opinion.
 

Ronak

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I will be investing some serious coin over the next few weeks on a professional wardrobe overhaul-- tailored and higher quality shirts, suits, shoes, accessories, and just minding my grooming overall.

I've never been into fashion much but I've recently caught the bug. Wearing clothes that fit vs off the rack is like night and day.

With so many options nowadays, it's not necessary to spend a lot of money--look for sales, ebay, etc

One example-- tailorstore.com gets you your first tailored dress shirt for $35 shipped.

@Kak any suggestions for a good entry to mid level watch under a grand?
 
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advantagecp

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I personally don't bring my money to Express or Banana Republic... That isn't to say there isn't good stuff there though. One visit to their websites kind of alludes to a very fashion forward eccentricity that I don't personally care for.

Yes, I error on the side of timeless and conservative. Ralph Lauren has a lot of timeless stuff and some outlandish. Brooks Brothers is almost all timeless.

Considering your goal to look professional as possible. If it looks like something a celebrity would wear... It's too much, in my opinion.
100% on the money. There is a difference between style and fashion. Style is timeless while fashion changes with the weather.

Someone who is serious about improving their game should do 3 things:
1. Buy and read Dressing the Man by Alan Flusser.
2. Join and spend hours reading posts on Ask Andy About Clothes.
3. Join and spend hours reading posts on StyleForum.

If you don't want to spend the effort, just buy Brooks Brothers 1818 line suits and sport coats. There are 4 different fits, and one of them will be close enough off the rack that a good tailor can get it right. If you instead opt to develop some sort of flashy 'personal style' then you have a very high chance of looking like a jerkoff to people who understand clothing.
 

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@Kak any suggestions for a good entry to mid level watch under a grand?
Personally I like Hamilton watches; they made some of the original aviator watches for the military, and they have some 'verreh noice' watches in your price range.

Hamilton History | Hamilton Story

Hamilton Watches

The main thing is to match metals as much as possible. So if you're wearing a silver colored watch, belt buckle, any metal on the shoes, and any jewelry (wedding ring excepted) must be silver.
 
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I will be investing some serious coin over the next few weeks on a professional wardrobe overhaul-- tailored and higher quality shirts, suits, shoes, accessories, and just minding my grooming overall.

I've never been into fashion much but I've recently caught the bug. Wearing clothes that fit vs off the rack is like night and day.

With so many options nowadays, it's not necessary to spend a lot of money--look for sales, ebay, etc

One example-- tailorstore.com gets you your first tailored dress shirt for $35 shipped.

@Kak any suggestions for a good entry to mid level watch under a grand?
Fashion implies some form of eccentricity. I would not call this fashion... but timeless business attire.

As far as the watch is concerned you could check out Frédérique Constant. Get an understated watch for wearing with business attire. Use Frédérique Constant as your inspiration even if you buy something else. They have the timeless thing down.

Frederique Constant Classics Black Dial Men's Stainless Steel Watch FC-259BR5B6B

Frederique Constant Persuasion Automatic White Dial Men's Watch FC-303M4P6

Frederique Constant Classics Automatic Grey Dial Men's Watch FC-303LGR5B6

Or try eBay for a Jaeger LeCoultre

Contrary to what a lot of folks think, leather strap is the most formal.
 
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Ronak

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Fashion implies some form of eccentricity. I would not call this fashion... but timeless business attire.

As far as the watch is concerned you could check out Frédérique Constant. Get an understated watch for wearing with business attire. Use Frédérique Constant as your inspiration even if you buy something else. They have the timeless thing down.

Frederique Constant Classics Black Dial Men's Stainless Steel Watch FC-259BR5B6B

Frederique Constant Persuasion Automatic White Dial Men's Watch FC-303M4P6

Frederique Constant Classics Automatic Grey Dial Men's Watch FC-303LGR5B6

Or try eBay for a Jaeger LeCoultre

Contrary to what a lot of folks think, leather strap is the most formal.

I use the term loosely, of course.

Also, I picked up a sweet vintage black dial Omega :)
 

Marius973

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Me, I like being in sportswear when I'm at home:
-A jogging
-A sweet
To be more alaise and when I have important place to go I put a shirt
 

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Good stuff @Kak , I appreciate this write-up. This is powerful stuff - knowing how to dress to look as professional as possible. You've been around some powerful people and knowing how to look professional around them is information that a lot of us would never have come to realize. Rep++
 
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I have actually done the same to an extent. 90% of my dress shirts are white or some kind of white. Why? Because it usually works no matter which suit I choose. Results may vary and we all have our systems. This is one of mine. Good post!

By the way guys, I don't sit around in my home office in a suit all day if that is what you are envisioning. I will be home all day so I am currently wearing a comfy pair of wrangler jeans (don't get me started on designer jeans) and a Brooks Brothers polo shirt.
How do you stop the sweat stains... I bought a $200 CAD Ralph Lauren white dress shirt.. it's beautiful, looks amazing on me... but I got sweat stains after 2 hours of wearing it... I tried wearing a Ralph Lauren white undershirt but the material of the shirt is so light, you can see the shirt clearly.
 
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How do you stop the sweat stains... I bought a $200 CAD Ralph Lauren white dress shirt.. it's beautiful, looks amazing on me... but I got sweat stains after 2 hours of wearing it... I tried wearing a Ralph Lauren white undershirt but the material of the shirt is so light, you can see the shirt clearly.
I hate undershirts. Never wear them. Also Texas is way too hot for layers.

Unfortunately my best answer about the sweat stains is “I don’t know.” I don’t really have the problem.

@Kak any suggestions for boots and dress shirts? Brands?
Allen Edmonds has dressier boots that look like dress shoes on the bottom. Tecovas look nice for a more western style boot. Though I don’t own any, I’m considering a pair of the ropers.

Like the vast majority of my clothing, I buy Brooks Brothers for dress shirts. I have had good luck with Jos A Bank and Kenneth Cole as well.

I tend to stay away from the “travelers” shirts. They just feel and look cheap to me. They remind me of something a 40k per year employee with a dress code would wear. I buy nice natural fibers.
 

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I tend to stay away from the “travelers” shirts. They just feel and look cheap to me. They remind me of something a 40k per year employee with a dress code would wear. I buy nice natural fibers.
I’ve had some luck with Charles Tyrwhitt: Tyrwhitt Cool | Charles Tyrwhitt
100% cotton and while they aren’t truly “non-iron” as they claim to be, they are low care.

@MoneyDoc could be a good option for you because they look and feel decent and for $40/each you won’t feel so bad about cycling through them quicker than a $200 shirt

I prefer these for my basics like white and blue shirts and then go higher end/custom ( Custom Dress Shirts - Proper Cloth) for patterned shirts that I won’t wear as often.
 

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How do you stop the sweat stains... I bought a $200 CAD Ralph Lauren white dress shirt.. it's beautiful, looks amazing on me... but I got sweat stains after 2 hours of wearing it... I tried wearing a Ralph Lauren white undershirt but the material of the shirt is so light, you can see the shirt clearly.

Mizzen and Main are awesome for this, they use a sweat proof performance fabric. Also machine washable, true wrinkle free, and amazing fit. They're pricey, but less than what you're paying now.

I have a code for $50 off, would be happy to share if you message me.
 

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Great thread, @Kak ! Any tips for us living in a hot climate like Arizona? I don't mind the heat here, but I do feel like it limits my options to how I can dress. Not always practical to go out looking nice in a suit. I guess different textiles and materials could make a big difference.
 
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Great thread, @Kak ! Any tips for us living in a hot climate like Arizona? I don't mind the heat here, but I do feel like it limits my options to how I can dress. Not always practical to go out looking nice in a suit. I guess different textiles and materials could make a big difference.
Do folks wear lighter linen stuff out there? Think south florida...

Look at jackets made of cotton or linen and stay away from wool. This makes a massive difference.

Men's Sport Coats and Vests | Brooks Brothers

Suits too:

Men's Suits, 3 Piece Suits, and Suit Pants | Brooks Brothers
 

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Just read "The Magic of Thinking Big" (you'd like it @Kak if you haven't read it) and all of this clicked for me.

I get it now.

Gonna go back and re-read this thread and stop looking like a chump.

Went to a barbershop for the first time in my life yesterday and got a nice looking haircut. I feel more confident already.

New shoes are next on the list. Time to ditch the nikes.


I don't often need to appear to folks in "business" situations (yet). I just want to up my game in every day life clothing.

My wife thanks you @Kak.... "I've been trying to get you to do this for 10 years".
 
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Just read "The Magic of Thinking Big" (you'd like it @Kak if you haven't read it) and all of this clicked for me.

I get it now.

Gonna go back and re-read this thread and stop looking like a chump.

Went to a barbershop for the first time in my life yesterday and got a nice looking haircut. I feel more confident already.
Good job bud! That's fantastic.

You guys will be very surprised about this, but I cut my own hair. I decided to do it when I rarely left the barber satisfied with what I ended up with. Slowly I have learned all the tricks and have gotten the proper stuff to really give myself the barber haircut they could only give me if they read my mind.

New shoes are next on the list. Time to ditch the nikes.
Allen Edmonds!
 

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I cut my own hair. I decided to do it when I rarely left the barber satisfied with what I ended up with. Slowly I have learned all the tricks and have gotten the proper stuff to really give myself the barber haircut they could only give me if they read my mind.
Tell us more.. I have actually pondered this. Did you learn from watching Youtube videos or something? Whenever I go get my hair cut, it seems I get a different person every time, and they're never consistent. I even bring photos of myself I took after a very nice haircut one time, but they still can't do it quite right, lol.
 
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You guys will be very surprised about this, but I cut my own hair. I decided to do it when I rarely left the barber satisfied with what I ended up with. Slowly I have learned all the tricks and have gotten the proper stuff to really give myself the barber haircut they could only give me if they read my mind.
I've cut my hair for 10 years, and while I have gotten better... I'm stuck in a rut, and really don't know what to do to change it.

I was much more satisfied with what the barbershop did for me.


Will look into the shoes
 
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Tell us more.. I have actually pondered this. Did you learn from watching Youtube videos or something? Whenever I go get my hair cut, it seems I get a different person every time, and they're never consistent. I even bring photos of myself I took after a very nice haircut one time, but they still can't do it quite right, lol.
I started by growing it out a little... Like the longest version of a still clean cut professional hairstyle and then VERY conservatively trimmed it up with scissors and a #6-7 guide for the sides.

Doing this, I knew I could always go to a barber and get it fixed.

I slowly got more confident over the last 2 years worth of haircuts that now I can do pretty much anything I want. Also, if you spend 30 bucks at the barber every 3 weeks and you can do it in an hour less than the whole driving over there and waiting dog and pony show, and you value your time at $300/hour... You save $5700 per year. ;)

This also gets me out of the conversation too... Which ultimately lands on what do you do? A conversation I don't want to have with a barber, who could be a communist.
 
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Which ultimately land's on what do you do? A conversation I don't want to have with a barber, who could be a communist.
Haha... oh man, yep the obligatory question. It's that, or some chatty Kathy who thinks I am super interested in hearing all about her kids/grandkids, her diet regimen, or her current boyfriend troubles. I just want my haircut, woman.

But thanks for the tip. Good point that if you start careful and screw up at first you can always go get it fixed.
 
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I started by growing it out a little... Like the longest version of a still clean cut professional hairstyle and then VERY conservatively trimmed it up with scissors and a #6-7 guide for the sides.

Doing this, I knew I could always go to a barber and get it fixed.

I slowly got more confident over the last 2 years worth of haircuts that now I can do pretty much anything I want. Also, if you spend 30 bucks at the barber every 3 weeks and you can do it in an hour less than the whole driving over there and waiting dog and pony show, and you value your time at $300/hour... You save $5700 per year. ;)

This also gets me out of the conversation too... Which ultimately land's on what do you do? A conversation I don't want to have with a barber, who could be a communist.
Lol.

Dude that moved in next door to me is a barber. He was waiting on renovations to his new place, so he was chopping mops out of his garage. Didn't think much of it till a bunch of high end german luxury sedans came by to get their hair cut.

Started going to him, and they do a great job.

He's mid 20s, and the other guy that cuts my hair is early 20s. Both are anti commie, and I don't mind the small talk cuz they're decent kids.
 

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I can confirm that @Kak doesn't look homeless. I was a bit worried when he said he cuts his own hair, but it looks great. His wife wouldn't put up with a shaggy husband either.

The best part about barbers is that 90% of them seem to smoke. I don't want your nasty fingers touching my head.

I have not tried cutting my own yet, but my wife always wants to try and I won't let her haha.
 

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I started by growing it out a little... Like the longest version of a still clean cut professional hairstyle and then VERY conservatively trimmed it up with scissors and a #6-7 guide for the sides.

Doing this, I knew I could always go to a barber and get it fixed.

I slowly got more confident over the last 2 years worth of haircuts that now I can do pretty much anything I want. Also, if you spend 30 bucks at the barber every 3 weeks and you can do it in an hour less than the whole driving over there and waiting dog and pony show, and you value your time at $300/hour... You save $5700 per year. ;)

This also gets me out of the conversation too... Which ultimately lands on what do you do? A conversation I don't want to have with a barber, who could be a communist.
The good part about being bald is there are only two options for a haircut (for a younger guy) and both are super simple: buzzcut or shaved.

No combs. No bedhead. No shampoo. No hairstyle. No barber/stylist. No messed up haircut.

I prefer the shaved head, but a buzzcut is easier. A shaved head apparently makes men look more confident/powerful than thinning/receding hair (which I have).
 

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