Coding bootcamp business - is it worth to start?

[MichaelCash]

Hi there!

I am thinking of starting coding bootcamp business. What do you think it is worth to start?

The problem is that it seems not a very scalable business. Even if it is successful, you can get some medium income.

The good thing for me is that cost of entry for this business is pretty low for me, since I am a software engineer and I used to train new developers at my work.

Also, I feel it might be on demand among some categories of people. The idea is that you can get a software developer education in around 3 months and pay only $10K-$12K. After this you can potentially land a job that will pay $60K per year from the very begging and up to 150K per year in the future for senior positions. Looks like a good alternative to traditional education.

What do you think?

 

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[NickC]

So you're saying a customer would pay you 10-12k? If thats the case you wouldn't need many customers to scale. 10 customers and you're at 6 figures

 

[AdamMaxum]

A lot of these popping up over past couple years.

You can scale it if you create a course (process) and hire developers to teach it. Obviously I would probably start by yourself, learn what works best, and then scale if wanted from there.

Your competing against a growing number of websites/programs online that teach coding for probably less.

Are you going to teach people remotely or in a classroom environment?

Do you think 3 months is enough time to teach someone coding? What level/type of development/coding?

Are you offering any sort of guarantee or promise after 3 months what they can expect? Will you help them in their career paths at all? People are going to want to know/think they can definitely get a good paying job after the teaching is over - or - they can turn it into a freelance/business for themselves.

Why should someone learn from you? What makes you a good teacher? How will you sell this to people? How will you find the people who want to do this? How will they find you? (marketing angles).

 

[MichaelCash]

So you're saying a customer would pay you 10-12k? If thats the case you wouldn't need many customers to scale. 10 customers and you're at 6 figures

Let me elaborate on numbers. There is usually 8-10 student in a class. Each of them will pay approx 10K per 3 month. Most probable there will be 3 classes per year. So the Revenue will be 240K per year, maybe now right away but at some point of time. Now, expanses are: office rent, advertising, instructors, etc. Also I will be doing it with 1 or 2 partners. I think income will be aprpox 80K-100K , then if to split it between 3 people, them my part will be 20K-30K per year in the best case scenario.

Now how to scale it? Run 2 classes in parallel. Then it will be 40-60K per year. Not too much taking into account how much time I will need to spend. Can I run 3 classes at the same time? probably it will be not that simple.... So, it doesnt look scalable.

 

[MichaelCash]

A lot of these popping up over past couple years.

I am not talking about how to do and some implementation details. Imagine, I can find clients and they are ready to pay. I am trying to think how scalable it is. And yes, this this is not an online class, but a bootcamp with an instructor. I am located in Chicago, there are enough people who might be interested in this type of bootcamp, but yes, the market is limited. I don't want to run online classes because I just don't understand online business model and it is already too competitive.

 

[lowtek]

"coding" boot camps are a super saturated business. Dev Bootcamp is shutting down quite a few big locations, likely due to this fact.

I like the concept of them, but if you're going to just compete with all the other web dev type boot camps out there, I don't see being successful as likely.

If you focus on data science and/or machine learning, I think you have a much better shot. It's a burgeoning field, and not as many boot camps specialize in it yet.

 

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[Chromozone]

The problem is that it seems not a very scalable business.

If you haven't even started and signed one person up yet, should you really be worried about scaling?

MJ actually wrote a great bit regarding scaling in Unscripted and how a lot of people misunderstood what he meant in TMF . He gave the example of Starbucks and how a lot of people would dismiss it as a business idea as it's not immediately apparent how to scale from the get go.

This is part of the process. Worry about scaling when it becomes an issue.

I am located in Chicago, there are enough people who might be interested in this type of bootcamp...

Step 1, from what you've written is to validate your idea and get one person to sign up and part with their cash. If you can't do that, then is it really worth worrying about scaling issues right now?

 

[MichaelCash]

If you haven't even started and signed one person up yet, should you really be worried about scaling?

I understand, but I don't want to get involved into the business where the market is very small. I am talking about face to face bootcamp, not online. I had a business which was very hard to scale like this and got my lessons learned. I have a full time job and if this part time thing will bring me 10-30K per year max, I don't want to spend time on this.

 

[MichaelCash]

"coding" boot camps are a super saturated business. Dev Bootcamp is shutting down quite a few big locations, likely due to this fact.

Online bootcamps are saturates, yes, for this reason, I don't want to start an online bootcamp. Face-to-face instructor led bootcampls have less competition, but the problem is they are not scalable and this is the problem for me, because the market for them is very small - only one city, similar to a coffee shop or a haircut saloon(unless I will do sessions in different cities, which is hard to do). BTW. a coffee shop is easier to scale - just open another one in a different neighborhood, but a bootcamp will attract people from the whole city and the suburbs, so to grow it you need to move to another city.

btw, Dev Bootcamp is shutting down because there is not enough money in this business model, again, I am not talking about online here.

 

[lowtek]

Online bootcamps are saturates, yes, for this reason, I don't want to start an online bootcamp. Face-to-face instructor led bootcampls have less competition, but the problem is they are not scalable and this is the problem for me, because the market for them is very small - only one city, similar to a coffee shop or a haircut saloon(unless I will do sessions in different cities, which is hard to do). BTW. a coffee shop is easier to scale - just open another one in a different neighborhood, but a bootcamp will attract people from the whole city and the suburbs, so to grow it you need to move to another city.

btw, Dev Bootcamp is shutting down because there is not enough money in this business model, again, I am not talking about online here.

I'm not talking about "onlin`e" either.

The bulk of dev bootcamp's training (9 to 15 weeks) was on campus - they had campuses in austin, chicago, san fran, seattle, new york, and san diego. Only phase 0 was online.

Become a full-stack web developer | Dev Bootcamp

Your analysis is essentially correct - it's not really easy to scale these, and it's difficult to offer something unique that sets you apart from the numerous competitions.

I've seen them now rolled into co working spaces. Galvanize, which is here in Phoenix, among other places, has adopted this model. They also offer a data science program, which is very forward thinking, I believe. This double whammy will probably give them some longevity, but it's a very cutthroat space.

It's a one and done service - you go to the bootcamp and you're done. No repeat sales to the same customers, and no way to scale ( as you've pointed out ) other than moving to a new city.

They're so common they are essentially a commodity. You're going to have to offer something more - and having a physical location really isn't sufficient.

 

[TheSmokey1]

Hi there!

I am thinking of starting coding bootcamp business. What do you think it is worth to start?
...

A distant acquaintance of mine started doing this about 2 years ago. I don't want to make it sound like I have any inside info ( I don't), but from the outside it seems to be doing very well. He is doing classroom and online learning. His tact is to really focus on what it takes be be employable and start making money immediately after finishing. They have worked with local businesses, brings in guests, etc. I know a lot of that sounds like it would be common, but it has worked for them. That was their way to stand out from the competition.

 

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[ZCP]

Do one 'camp' and you will get all the answers you need.

 

[Longinus]

Why don't you narrow down your "camp"? Coding in general is very broad. Narrow it down to some niches like SaaS, webdesign, app, software,...

I would rather take a class in "SaaS-bootcamp" than "coding bootcamp".

 

[-Brian-]

If I were to pay $$ for instructor led for x months of time commitment, I'd want to know the following:

• Why should I pay you versus someone else (what is your programming portfolio, ie, show me your work and how do I know that you did the work)
• Why should I pay you versus paying one of the many existing bootcamps and potentially work at my own pace? Maybe your target customer is someone that has more time than I do (full-time instruction -vs- someone switching from another career into programming)
• Some students will want some type of "certification"/proof of work. I personally don't care for this, but in a certification heavy IT industry, this seems to matter to some people. I just want to know whether or not you can do the work, not pass some type of multiple choice test.
• As a student what do I get after the class to review previous material (ie. just my notes, do I get access to the materials in electronic form, videos)? Need to determine what level of watermarking/protection?

Just brainstorming out loud.

 

[Andy Black]

(Skimmed thread.)

Just do a camp and take it from there?

If you can't get the numbers for one camp then worries about scaling are a moot point.

You're trained as an engineer... to look ahead and solve problems you don't have yet. However, as an entrepreneur this skill and trait can be a hinderance.

Remember this line: "Overthinking is the art of solving problems you don't have."



If you do have a successful camp then you'll find other things you can offer people who've been through the course.

Ongoing online support?

More advanced training?

An online or offline bootcamp on how to become a freelancer?

A course on how to be a better business owner? (Just see what @Fox has done with his online course - it's not a coding course per se but how to use your skillz to make money).



Maybe you can hire the best of your students?

Maybe you do such a great job of helping people get jobs or go it alone that you've a hit on your hands?

Maybe you can bottle what you did and get someone else to do the course?

Maybe you can expand to other cities, countries, etc?

Maybe you learn how to acquire the people with money in hand? (I suspect this is a pre-requisite. Do you think that skill might be valuable?)

Maybe you can become a valuable broker between people looking to learn and people looking to teach?

Maybe you end up with a "directory" of coding bootcamps?


Are there people out here prepared to pay money to learn coding? ... Yeah... look at all the University courses, bootcamps, online courses, books, etc.



Is there a gap? ... I'm sure, but you won't find it navel gazing. ;-)

Engage the market. The beauty of face-to-face is it's high friction. Welcome the hand to hand combat. Get out of the chamber of your mind. Talk to your market. Talk to everyone.


You may find the second call I had with @Scot useful:

• AndyTalks with @Scot about business failure and talking to people

I'm also reminded of this post which I hope you don't mind my linking to:

• How! vs How?

It seems you're lamenting "How can this scale!" rather than genuinely asking "How can this scale?".


EDIT: You have me thinking about giving a week long boot-camp in my home town. That would be fun...

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

"coding" boot camps are a super saturated business. Dev Bootcamp is shutting down quite a few big locations, likely due to this fact.

I like the concept of them, but if you're going to just compete with all the other web dev type boot camps out there, I don't see being successful as likely.

If you focus on data science and/or machine learning, I think you have a much better shot. It's a burgeoning field, and not as many boot camps specialize in it yet.

DevBootcamp is not just shutting down a few locations... but all of them. They couldn't find a profitable model - and that was after they were acquired by Kaplan.

I understand, but I don't want to get involved into the business where the market is very small. I am talking about face to face bootcamp, not online. I had a business which was very hard to scale like this and got my lessons learned. I have a full time job and if this part time thing will bring me 10-30K per year max, I don't want to spend time on this.

From your posts it's evident that you don't believe in the idea. If you don't believe in it then it will never work. Move on to something you believe in.

If the founder of a company doesn't believe in it, then who will?

btw, Dev Bootcamp is shutting down because there is not enough money in this business model, again, I am not talking about online here.

DevBootcamp was face to face and failed. If you're going to seriously contemplate an idea then you need to do proper research before even considering the idea.

 

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[TonyStark]

Two words: supersaturated market.

 

[PatrickWho]

Just test out the idea.

Get involved with some local meetups - WordPress, JavaScript, whatever your experience. Get to know some people. Do some free sessions for a full day somewhere. If the cost of venue is too much, ask for a small amount to cover costs.

This is a good way to cut your teeth on a larger group where skill levels will vary greatly between attendees.

If people like it, you can take feedback to create a more advanced in-depth course that would run several days.

Unless you're a well known dev, you'd have a hard time charging 10k + right out the gate. You should build some street cred first.

You could also look at the way Front End Masters goes about it. They run workshops and record them. The online videos are unlike anything you find on other learning platforms and it seems to work well for them.

Finally - the idea of a specialized camp is a good one. What is your strength? I could see a lot of value in teaching how to:

- bootstrap your own saas (cover the full stack, planning, deployment, etc.)
- popular frontend frameworks (React, Vue)
- popular backend frameworks (Laravel, Django, etc.)

It doesn't have to be a from-scratch course; you could focus on something to help existing devs get a leg up on some widely-used tech.

 

[MichaelCash]

thank you for your comments! It is very helpful. Just to address some of the comments above.
I know how to market it and promote it in a right way and I feel that there is a good opportunity here that's why I am tempting to get into it. But on the other hand, based on my previous experience I suspect that the market is pretty small and the business model is not sustainable. I understand that I will be able to pivot, but a business takes time, money and energy. When you are young, you can start any business, I am in my 40-s, so, I am trying to analyze if it is a good fit for me and if I want to spend part of my life on this. There are two factors. I like businesses that can grow fast or businesses that can have some social impact and help me expand my social circle. The bootcamp idea is something which I know how to start with since I am in this industry and I strongly feel there is an opportunity here since it solves a serious problem, but on the other hand I have negative experience with not scalable business with a small market.

 

[lowtek]

soooo.... as some of the others suggested, do a proof of concept on meetup and see what kind of interest you get. Maybe do a mini bootcamp - like a weekend type thing.

 

[minivanman]

I saw 1 word and skipped right to the reply sections\...... partners. So my question is..... WHY? Why do you need any parter(s) at all? This always makes me cringe.

 

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[MichaelCash]

I saw 1 word and skipped right to the reply sections\...... partners. So my question is..... WHY? Why do you need any parter(s) at all? This always makes me cringe.

I have my own preferences. But to answer the question - I don't want to do something alone. I did this in the past and it is boring to me. Besides this, several people can bring more resources, more connections, more ideas. I guess I am picky and I want to spend time (maybe a year or so) and find what I like. A business is not only a potential source of income. There are some other factors: how much time I will need to spend on it, how it fits my skills, what do I get from a social point of view. Etc.

 

[tehbest1]

Looks like a good alternative to traditional education.

What do you think?

Another, cheaper, alternative to traditional education is the Internet. Those with the inclination can find online courses and groups for free. Khan Academy, Youtube, books, tutorials and then work on projects online like on github, or make your own projects and put them on app-stores or the web.

For open technologies, this is true. But for closed industries, I think you may have more interest. For example, I know that the oil and gas industries have their own specialised systems that you would likely not find online in abundance. A uni wouldn't be teaching that specific system, therefore you have a more captive market.

 

[ZCP]

So how many did you get to signup? When is the first mini camp? How many are now on your email list for future endeavors?

 

[Fox]

Hi there!

I am thinking of starting coding bootcamp business. What do you think it is worth to start?

The problem is that it seems not a very scalable business. Even if it is successful, you can get some medium income.

The good thing for me is that cost of entry for this business is pretty low for me, since I am a software engineer and I used to train new developers at my work.

Also, I feel it might be on demand among some categories of people. The idea is that you can get a software developer education in around 3 months and pay only $10K-$12K. After this you can potentially land a job that will pay $60K per year from the very begging and up to 150K per year in the future for senior positions. Looks like a good alternative to traditional education.

What do you think?

Coding/web design is a really fast way to have a base level of income and be your own boss. It doesn't scale amazingly but you are exposed to tons of skill sets and connections you can use later to branch into other areas.

If you have any questions just let me know.

 

[surfer92]

Pick a software topic you like and give a presentation of it at a local meet up of developers.

The idea of "Coding" boothcamp could work even though there is plenty of information online to learn code, some people just want to be told what to learn and given direction. Rather than reading and searching for answers online.

It can be scalable business if you want to create online videos and content or have virtual classrooms.
For example this company in Ireland does different types of "coding" boothcamps: Code Institute | Full Stack Software Development Diploma
Also gives you an idea about pricing.

What would make me sign up for the course would be the high probability of getting a job after the course. So if you partnered up with a local software company to help employ your graduates. That would increase your credibility and get you more clients.

 

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[ExcelGuy]

I think your prices are way out of line. No way is someone going to pay that price from "you" when it's practically the same as tuition from an accredited institution.

Each of us individually may think degrees are useless... but HR professionals don't.

I've signed up to run courses taught by Data Carpentry and they say their full up. You could check out Software Carpentry.

Team up with an instructional designer who can transfer your in class training to online.

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