Bank account tied to PayPal? Beware.

[Durete]

All payment options have risk.

Credit card processors can shut you down and hold your money, too.

Even bank account based payments are not completely "safe". With direct debit inside the EU for example, customers can get their money back immediately with a click of a button in their online banking withing 8 weeks or more. Of course it has legal consequences if they do (its basically fraud), but the possibilty is there. But in Germany its the most commonly used payment method with a very very large lead (basically the equivalent to credit cards in the US), so you cant ignore it.

Safest is obviously advance payment via wire. But who likes to pay with that? Some of my customers do, but I have to cancel a lot of these orders because they simply dont pay/forget about it.

You have to find a balance between risk/control and conversion rates. Because most customers like paypal/directdebit/credit card... Diversify. Build a relationship with your payment processor when you start doing higher volume. Have alternatives set up ready to go in case somebody shuts you down for whatever reason.

Thank you for the information.

I definately need to read into this topic more before putting my business online.
I don't expect many sales in the start(I don't get high hopes, as I'd rather be surprised than to be dissapointed.), but you never know.

So far the plan was to put everthing through paypal, as it accepts direct debit, credit card, Ideal(imo the best way of payment...ever) and paypal payments.


But this post makes me think twice.
So I'll have to go read and think about other options(Not all options are available for me as my company is not based in the US/Canada)
On first view Google wallet however looks like a potential other option. (Just a first view, did not research them yet)

 

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[Djs87]

I just got off the phone with them actually. I have two PayPal accounts. One personal and one that accepts payments for my business. I enabled second sign in security for my personal account using my cell. Then I tried to enable it on my second business account, arguably the more important one, and their system errored and wouldn't let me add it.

Having two accounts seems like a pretty normal scenario. Trying to secure both of them also seems like it would be a really common occurrence. Their answer to me? Sorry, our system doesn't allow that. Just use a strong password or get another cellphone.

Oh, okay. Thanks for sucking so much a$$ that I'm now looking for an alternative. A company as large as PayPal somehow doesn't allow you to protect more than one account with a mobile device. Seems like a huge oversight in their security plan.

 

[andviv]

Although I dislike paypal as well, their policy about one account per device is good fod security purposes. I am afraid I agree with them on that one --I work in IT and a big component is information security.

This policy minimizes the vectors for attacks.

 

[foreverforex]

If you want unnecessary stress and more problems than you already have, sure use PayPal. They'll happily provide you with that service.

I've had a bad run with them. It's just one big vicious circle, between YOU, the BUYER and PayPal.

 

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[Austin Sarwar]

So is this a need then. I was thinking of How crap pay pal is the other day and Now I see this.

 

[ThinkDifferent]

I pulled this from another forum ... this made me realize that someone could login to my paypal account and initiate a transaction, totally cleaning out my bank account. If that happens, I'm STUCK WITH PAYPAL'S dispute resolution. And PayPal's assurances? "Don't worry, we will send you an email" -- really? They sent this poor guy an email and they f*cked him over, refusing to refund over $1,000. Imagine if this was $10,000 ... remember, this is your bank account!

As a result, I removed my bank account from PayPal -- there's no way in hell I'm giving these bozo's and their "dispute policies" any chance. Control, control, control...

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Board Message

I dont know why nobody noticed but the complaint from the guy has got nothing to do with having a bank account tied to your Paypal. Paypal is legally not allowed (and never do it) to take out money from you regular bank, and hackers arent able to upload money to your PP from your bank account without your internet banking info.

The issue with this guy is that somebody sent him a keylogger and sent the money that was already in his PP through his own IP address and through friends/family. As I can read the hacker was prolly a pro because he got through the ID verification of the moneyexchanger too. There is really nothing that PP can do in that case, or otherwise buyers could ALWAYS get the money they sent to someone back which would make PP even a worse place to do business at.

The worst issue with PP is that customers who buy stuff through goods/services from you can always get their money back if they know how the system works. They can claim the product or service wasnt the same as described and can send some random mail back to the buyer and there is no amount of proof that will let PP not refund it. Often they will not take the money from your PP and still refund the transaction to the scammer.

Another issue is that PP sooner or later will block your account and hold the money for 180 days. Sometimes its because you accepted too many friends/family payments and sometimes just random based on nothing. I know of many many people who had issues with this. One guy got 100 000usd stuck and couldnt pay his suppliers, his entire business got destroyed by it and he became depressed.

It is therefore important to withdraw the money every 1-2 days. And even better, make sure you have several back up plans. I for example used a total of 7 paypals. 4 from family and friends and 3 illegal ones.

I withdrew my money every day and still when it got locked they had 9500 euro for 180 days, because they closed it on a Monday the previous 2 withdrawals werent processed..... Paypal really is a shit company but many times we just need it.

I hope I have helped you guys a bit and I hope I havent planted any bad ideas.

 

[Blue1214]

I dont know why nobody noticed but the complaint from the guy has got nothing to do with having a bank account tied to your Paypal. Paypal is legally not allowed (and never do it) to take out money from you regular bank, and hackers arent able to upload money to your PP from your bank account without your internet banking info.

The issue with this guy is that somebody sent him a keylogger and sent the money that was already in his PP through his own IP address and through friends/family. As I can read the hacker was prolly a pro because he got through the ID verification of the moneyexchanger too. There is really nothing that PP can do in that case, or otherwise buyers could ALWAYS get the money they sent to someone back which would make PP even a worse place to do business at.

The worst issue with PP is that customers who buy stuff through goods/services from you can always get their money back if they know how the system works. They can claim the product or service wasnt the same as described and can send some random mail back to the buyer and there is no amount of proof that will let PP not refund it. Often they will not take the money from your PP and still refund the transaction to the scammer.

Another issue is that PP sooner or later will block your account and hold the money for 180 days. Sometimes its because you accepted too many friends/family payments and sometimes just random based on nothing. I know of many many people who had issues with this. One guy got 100 000usd stuck and couldnt pay his suppliers, his entire business got destroyed by it and he became depressed.

It is therefore important to withdraw the money every 1-2 days. And even better, make sure you have several back up plans. I for example used a total of 7 paypals. 4 from family and friends and 3 illegal ones.

I withdrew my money every day and still when it got locked they had 9500 euro for 180 days, because they closed it on a Monday the previous 2 withdrawals werent processed..... Paypal really is a shit company but many times we just need it.

I hope I have helped you guys a bit and I hope I havent planted any bad ideas.

I came to post something similar.

This isn't Paypal's fault. They're following protocol and unfortunately the user is partly to blame --and of course the P.O.S. Scammer because somewhere along the line, they downloaded or visited a page that infected them.

The reason Paypal could not believe their claim was because the IP address matches the person who was frauded.

How?

If the person was infected with a RAT, or, remote administration tool, the scammer can control their paypal account using the victim's computer.

This will appear to the Paypal system as the correct owner is handling the account because it is coming from the exact same computer and IP address.

Paypal has no way of knowing this, or differentiating the users if it all appears the same.

If paypal has no evidence of otherwise, they cannot just reverse the transaction because then they'll lose the dispute with the bank and Paypal will be the ones out of money for no reason.

Unfortunately, Paypal also gets a lot of fraud where users try to get refunds for legit purchases too. So if their system shows the usual IP address and computer made the transaction, they have to assume you're lying, or a household member did it (which is not covered for protection).

Don't get me wrong, Paypal has ALOT of crappy policies and loopholes, but the one posted originally isn't really their fault. This kind of thing happens with a lot of websites where users don't realize their computers are infected and they simply blame the company instead of realizing they are infected.

 

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[andviv]

I for example used a total of 7 paypals. 4 from family and friends and 3 illegal ones.

You have 3 "illegal" accounts?

 

[ThinkDifferent]

You have 3 "illegal" accounts?

Yes had, but they are locked already. Now have 2 legit ones left from close friends.

If anyone has a problem with a paypal claim you can send me a PM.

 

[Sowexly]

Outside of PayPal having bad service it might be wise to get into the habit of using services like Lastpass & 2 factor authentication to protect your assets.

 

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[JamesSJ]

Once I reached a certain monthly threshold I got a personal account manager at PP. No need to contact customer support, it's a direct number. Any issues i've had on my account has been cleared up within a couple of hours. I am using PayPal in Hong Kong though, so not sure if that account manager is unique to that region.

Issues have been account locked when using account abroad, account locked when I changed some personal details, account not accepting a large amount of money, account locked when receiving/withdrawing unusual amounts. All recovered after speaking with PP.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

FYI...

Anyone who has had their cash tied up and *held* by PayPal in the past might be entitled to reimbursement from a class-action lawsuit.

https://www.accountholdsettlement.com/

Lawsuits such as these sometimes pay two bucks, but sometimes they pay hundreds. While I tend to think the class-actions only make big dollars for the lawyers, this one probably had some merit as PayPal has done some ridiculous things with people's accounts, many times, unwarranted.

 

[GPM]

Speaking of Paypal...

Someone logged into my account 2 days ago, changed all the bank information over to their account (chequing AND credit card), and deposited a little over $600.

All of this was sorted out through PayPal and I got my money back, but my banking information is still listed as the crooks. I am going to be taking this information to the bank AND the police.

I did not think what would have happened had he made large purchases on the account instead, and taken money from my bank! Wow, could have been bad.

 

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[ExCubeCommando]

Thanks to everyone for taking time to post all the helpful information on this thread about Paypal.

I have 2 business bank accounts, I run a repair business (B2B) - one for dealing with local customers, and one for repair and resell on eBay. I had both accounts on Paypal, but I just closed one. Now I'll just use the one account for the Paypal funds, then each week when I make my regular customer deposits to my main business account, will just transfer must of my secondary bank account funds to the main account. That should minimize risk by keeping the secondary account back to near zero, and keep their hands out of the cookie jar should temptation arise.

 

[Tiger TT]

Someone mentioned this, but I want to write about
it again:

Use KeyScrambler against keyloggers:
http://www.qfxsoftware.com/index.html

I've been using it for about 2 years.

Even if they capture your keystrokes on your
keyboard, they will just see random characters.

It protects your browsers, FTP credentials, bank
accounts, anything important.

Security programs can only protect you if they
can detect the malware, but this is a proactive
approach. A good addition to your security posture.

Basicly when someone tries to capture your
keystrokes, they will just see random stuff.

 

[Growth & Learn]

FYI...

Anyone who has had their cash tied up and *held* by PayPal in the past might be entitled to reimbursement from a class-action lawsuit.

https://www.accountholdsettlement.com/

Lawsuits such as these sometimes pay two bucks, but sometimes they pay hundreds. While I tend to think the class-actions only make big dollars for the lawyers, this one probably had some merit as PayPal has done some ridiculous things with people's accounts, many times, unwarranted.

Does this lawsuit mean that Paypal will stop doing this?

 

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[AllenCrawley]

Speaking of Paypal...

Someone logged into my account 2 days ago, changed all the bank information over to their account (chequing AND credit card), and deposited a little over $600.

All of this was sorted out through PayPal and I got my money back, but my banking information is still listed as the crooks. I am going to be taking this information to the bank AND the police.

I did not think what would have happened had he made large purchases on the account instead, and taken money from my bank! Wow, could have been bad.

Someone mentioned this, but I want to write about
it again:

Use KeyScrambler against keyloggers:
http://www.qfxsoftware.com/index.html

I've been using it for about 2 years.

Even if they capture your keystrokes on your
keyboard, they will just see random characters.

It protects your browsers, FTP credentials, bank
accounts, anything important.

Security programs can only protect you if they
can detect the malware, but this is a proactive
approach. A good addition to your security posture.

Basicly when someone tries to capture your
keystrokes, they will just see random stuff.

This happened to me a long time ago. Back in the early 2000's.

I've been using a Paypal Security Key since then with no problems.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/security-protections

 

[hughjasle]

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/security-protections

thnx - just enabled this

 

[GPM]

Thanks Allen! Doing that now

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

If PayPal every held your money unfairly, you could be a party to a class-action.

https://www.accountholdsettlement.com/

Might be worth your time to register to be in the class. The last time I was apart of a class with a class-action payoff for misdealings, I got a check that totally unexpected.

 

[BlakeIC]

If PayPal every held your money unfairly, you could be a party to a class-action.

https://www.accountholdsettlement.com/

Might be worth your time to register to be in the class. The last time I was apart of a class with a class-action payoff for misdealings, I got a check that totally unexpected.

bookmarked for when I am back home

 

[theag]

I think I mentioned this here before, but I never had problems with PayPal and do about 50-60% of my revenue with them. A few weeks ago I talked to an account rep (I'm in some kind of business program with better support) and she said that it was so refreshing to see an account with barely any chargebacks, complaints, etc. Seems to be rare. Guess thats a big part of why I never had problems. If you sell shitty products you will have problems with every payment processor.

Still use daily automatic withdrawal to my bank account (asked the support to set up a minimum amount of a few k to stay in the account for some subscriptions and possible refunds), added 2 factor auth and removed the direct debit after reading this thread. Better safe than sorry.

 

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[Yoda]

I think I mentioned this here before, but I never had problems with PayPal and do about 50-60% of my revenue with them.

I can also speak highly of them. Never had a single issue.

I opened a credit line with them (technically BillMeLater, or PPCredit, not sure), and they just keep upping it. I never request it.

Just a quick note for anyone looking for interest arbitrage... PPCredit has a rolling no interest for 6 months on purchases. I like that.

 

[tflfguy]

This happened to me a long time ago. Back in the early 2000's.

I've been using a Paypal Security Key since then with no problems.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/security-protections

Thank you, Allen - I've never had any issues with PayPal, but I will start using the PayPal Security Key...

 

[The-J]

Just got about $2000 taken from me via Paypal through unauthorized transactions to people in multiple different countries.

Not quite sure how they got it (I use a password manager and 2-factor authentication).

I caught it within 2 hours of the transactions sending. One of them is still pending, so that one should be easy to reverse. The other ones sent automatically.

So yea I'm gonna have to figure out what to do about this.

 

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[eliquid]

I've been with PP a long time. Did some good business through them.

They once froze my account for 6 months because a client chargedback her consult fee with me by mistake ( she used Amex to pay for the PP invoice ).

That hurt me a lot at the time because I was running a lot of stuff ( incoming and outgoing ) with PP. Not sure if I qualify for this class action though. Most times I have been in them, I have gotten a check, but it was for like .34 cents

 

[The-J]

UPDATE: It was only about $1500 that was attempted to be taken, in 3 transactions.

I went through their recovery process thing. Did that, and got a message saying 2 of the transactions were cancelled... but one of them went through.

They said that, due to my account history, that payment could not have been fraudulent.

??? Why the F*ck would I ever send money to some lady in the Middle East? I've never done that, ever. Not once.

So I call em up and get a dude on the phone. He gives me the runaround, saying that the case is technically still open but they found no reason to say that the charges are fraudulent.

I told him the situation, he told me to file a claim and check my message centre.

I do that, and about 4 hours later, I get a message in my message centre.

They STILL say it could not have been fraudulent.

What the F*ck?! Who are you to say that it wasn't fraudulent?

None of the transactions hit my bank account, though. I went to my bank and told them to be on the lookout. I don't trust them, either.

F*ckin incompetence. Paypal's Canadian office is in Toronto. If that charge hits my bank account, I'm going over there and telling you all about it.

 

[The-J]

Relevant video:

 

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[nradam123]

Keep less money in the bank account with PayPal.
Same goes to whoever who holds your money. Do not keep a lot of money in Fiverr, UpWork as well. None of them care about your money, I have been there twice.

 

[The-J]

The charges have hit my bank account. I'm F*cking livid.

I'm calling Paypal, and if they don't reverse the transactions, I'm having my bank charge em back + I'm cancelling my account.

They didn't even look into the fact that maybe I wouldn't be sending money to some random hotmail accounts.