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GOLD! 60 Days of 60 Minutes of Meditation - Let's Not Do Anything Together

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Formless

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Day 3

Today was the worst one in that I had the least silence, but the best in that i could make observations about my thoughts more easily. My mind went on a lot of tangents, but I'm starting to see a pattern in what they're about.

Most thoughts have an emotional flavour attached to them. The more intense the emotion (positive OR negative) - the more I hold on.

Also, so many of these thoughts are just the ego thrashing about. I'm proving someone wrong, I'm putting someone in their place, I'm having some argument... always manufacturing scenarios where I can get some kind of payback/revenge.

That's a nasty thing to find out about yourself... and if that is something that bubbles up to the surface after only 3 days of meditating... then I really need meditation more than I thought.
 

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I will complete Day 59 today.

The sessions have easily been a favorite part of my days! The timer at 60 minutes is a jolt.. I literally jump. After these 60 days, will find a different setting or to come out more naturally to save my spooked heart racing away.

Does anyone else find that - & this is all with the eyelids closed - that if you're looking/focused right in front of you, like just a few inches out, it helps you concentrate?

This seems to describe where my focus is as well @Mutant! It has turned into a huge glowing orb that hangs out where some will describe the third eye. I've been reading in part on healing meditations and the bright glow is what I'll use for that crazy fun.

To those that are considering their own 60 days and not in need of true counseling or therapies, highly recommend it! You can make it happen. If you remain unsure, what if you think of it as a gift to those in your life? A meditating, emotionally stronger, and less stressed you, for them.
 

redshift

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The timer at 60 minutes is a jolt.. I literally jump. After these 60 days, will find a different setting or to come out more naturally to save my spooked heart racing away.

Yeah, I did a meditation course last year and they said never use a timer / alarm etc mainly for this reason. You could be in a deep state and the sound will shock you (even if its a soft gong), and sometimes you want to continue for a bit more and this will interrupt the session.

Best thing to do is buy an hourglass / sand timer for your desired duration. If you are in quiet room you can even hear the sand falling which creates a further calming effect.

Also, just to note, after meditating for a while (you are probably already there at 60 days), you won't need a timer. Your body will get used to the process if you keep the time consistent. You just have to trust your internal clock. But the sand timer (or even a wall clock) can help if you want to be sure or have a backup.
 

MTF

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If this were a physical challenge I'd be like: "are you guys READY to CRUSH tomorrow, the final day?"

But since it isn't, let's just acknowledge the inner work we've done so far but don't forget it's been just 59 days of more conscious living (compared to so many more years living on autopilot).
 

MJ DeMarco

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Amazing thread, and now that people winding up to their 60th day, time to go GOLD.
 

MTF

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Amazing thread, and now that people winding up to their 60th day, time to go GOLD.

Awesome, thank you for that.

I'll write a longer post tomorrow with my observations after finishing my 60th day.
 

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Day 3

Today was the worst one in that I had the least silence, but the best in that i could make observations about my thoughts more easily. My mind went on a lot of tangents, but I'm starting to see a pattern in what they're about.

Most thoughts have an emotional flavour attached to them. The more intense the emotion (positive OR negative) - the more I hold on.

Also, so many of these thoughts are just the ego thrashing about. I'm proving someone wrong, I'm putting someone in their place, I'm having some argument... always manufacturing scenarios where I can get some kind of payback/revenge.

That's a nasty thing to find out about yourself... and if that is something that bubbles up to the surface after only 3 days of meditating... then I really need meditation more than I thought.

Great job! This is the internal churning and waste of energy that many entrepreneurs and people in general "fight" to get rid of.
 

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If this were a physical challenge I'd be like: "are you guys READY to CRUSH tomorrow, the final day?"

But since it isn't, let's just acknowledge the inner work we've done so far but don't forget it's been just 59 days of more conscious living (compared to so many more years living on autopilot).
Exactly, thats how I now feel with it comes to the end of the challenge. There is still more to do and explore, I am just getting started.

One "zen idea" I really like is to have a beginner`s mind, where you keep your mind open for new experiences and keep that curiosity towards studying or exploring a subject.
 

metallon

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DAY 8

Initially, I had so many thoughts on what to do next. If I let go of the temptation for the first 20-30mins, then it is easy to revert to calm state.

Simply, Meditation is the most simple and powerful self-improvement tool for me. I can see myself getting better and my level of focus is improving.

Eagerly waiting for @MTF 60th day post.
 

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Day 60 completed.

It was an average session. Some distractions, some focus, so practice as usual.

This is actually a very fitting final day of this challenge showing that I'm nowhere near "done" (it's preposterous to even say that considering a mere 60 hours of practice of such a difficult skill).

I'll post my observations after the completed challenge in a separate post later.
 

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Day 4

Pretty much the same as the last session, went ok.
 

Bora.s

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Day 1

done. I am happy that I found this thread. Thank you @MTF! I've had the feeling for a long time that I should meditate more.

It was difficult to meditate for such a long time. After 40 minutes I was checking my phone how much time is still left.
I've been meditating for a long time usually 10 to 15 minutes before I go to sleep. I rarely reach a meditative state, where I rise to a kind of higher level. I hope to get into a meditative state more often by meditating for longer time period.

Meditation( even the short one) has been very powerful thing for me. It is helping me somehow to "find" myself. I started to read The Untethered Soul some days ago, so I have something to thing about and to observe myself a bit.
 

MTF

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Day 4

Pretty much the same as the last session, went ok.

Get used to this feeling that it's "just" okay as most of your sessions will neither be great nor terrible. And that's okay. :D

I started to read The Untethered Soul some days ago, so I have something to thing about and to observe myself a bit.
Happy to have you on board. Prepare to be blown away!
 

Formless

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Get used to this feeling that it's "just" okay as most of your sessions will neither be great nor terrible. And that's okay. :D
"And that's okay."

I want this to be the default suffix to any judgments I make about each session :)

"I played a short movie in my head and indulged in the feeling several times... and that's okay."
"I had an unbelievable experience today... and that's okay."
"I feel like I just kinda sat there and got nothing out of it this time... and that's okay."
 

MTF

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Thoughts and Observations After 60 Days of Meditating 60 Minutes a Day

General Observations

1. Meditation is just a tool, not an end in itself. I started working with Michael A. Singer's stuff roughly 2-3 weeks after I started this challenge. And that's when I realized that by itself, meditation, while useful, is missing a huge piece of the puzzle. And that piece is the fact that meditation is a tool to help us:
  • notice what's inside of us (few people ever get to stop to watch the chaos in their heads),
  • learn that we don't have to follow/act on the thoughts/emotions that we think/feel (the act of watching them is essentially what the meditative practice is about),
  • most importantly: that we aren't our minds. We're the consciousness that happens to be observing the mind. Just like you aren't your leg, so you aren't your mind (which is very, very hard to understand and I'm still struggling with this concept; yet know deep down that it's true). The mind is a computer that was fed certain data (stuff that happened to us) and so now behaves a certain way. As Michael beautifully puts it: "Take a computer, fill it with certain data and then ask it a question. It'll come up with a certain answer. Don't change the data but keep asking the question. You're getting the same answer. Because it's the only data it has. Change its data, you'll get totally different answers. That's how you look at every human being you meet from now on."
2. Coupled with the above, meditation is an extremely powerful tool to improve your emotional control. You cease to be reactive and impulsive (which is the cause of most problems in life). I used to struggle with anger attacks, sometimes for really silly reasons - for example, when I hit my head against something.

Meditation helped me, figuratively, increase the time that passes between the first sign of an emotion (say, anger) and the time when it's impossible not to express it. The magic happens in between - when you observe the emotion as it grows and you decide to just watch it, not feeding it. It's amazing how these emotions melt away when you simply choose to watch them. Note that you don't fight with them in any way. You're just focusing on being okay feeling them but not taking any action whatsoever.

For example, recently I had a language class during which I struggled to repeat a sound correctly. I noticed growing frustration inside me. I realized that my entire body was getting tense and I was about to react to it. I kept observing the emotion, consciously relaxed my body and it went away. I use the same technique almost every day whenever something/someone provokes a negative reaction in me.

3. Meditation and mindfulness will change every aspect of your life. I could have written several seperate points about different areas of life, but ultimately it's such a powerful meta-habit it makes no sense to list them all. I'll just give a few real life examples.
  • When you meditate, you focus on what's going on in your head. With practice, you learn to notice when your thoughts drift away, when you refocus, and when something distracts you again. This skill is incredibly useful in conversations. When I talk with people now, I focus 100% on what they're saying. Thanks to meditation, whenever I feel my thoughts drifting away, I can quickly refocus and not lose focus on the other person. In a world with so many people who easily get distracted, this is an immensely powerful skill.
  • As you meditate more, it gets easier and easier to focus. You no longer need a distraction to let your mind rest. You don't have to switch from one task to another. For example, as I was watching a movie with my girlfriend (The Soul, which is a pretty good movie for anyone into mindfulness), she asked to take a break so she could "distract" herself a little (she wanted to check her podcast performance so she's excused LOL). Usually I'd check social media during such a break. This time I simply sat and pondered on the movie. I didn't need to switch my focus to something else to relax.
  • Practicing meditation and mindfulness slightly slows down the pace at which the life around you unfolds. Or so it feels. A second feels a little longer than a second. You start noticing beautiful things you haven't seen before. Someone's brief smile. The way dust particles float in your living room when the sun is shining outside. Or more practically, the bad position of your wrist when performing a certain exercise or your reaction time to something potentially dangerous happening while you drive.
  • You become more peaceful and content. This is particularly influenced by Michael A. Singer's work. Since this is not a thread about spirituality but about meditation in itself, I'll just say that meditation shows you that you can be 100% okay without any external stimuli. In other words, you don't need ANYTHING to feel great. Naval once said (I think in an interview with Tim Ferriss) that morning meditation is his best time of the day. The outer world has little to offer if the act of sitting still (something available to everyone for free) is your greatest mood booster.
4. 60 hours is nothing. While of course that's 60 hours more than zero, in meditation we always want to cultivate the beginner's mind as @Olimac21 pointed out. Being arrogant about one's meditation/mindfulness practices is antithetical to spirituality. Arrogance is the ego/the judgmental mind, which is the thing we want to stop confusing with ourselves.

As for the hours of practice and potential effects, consider the following: @Mutant once cited data from this site:

Note: these have been taken from meditation studies, personal experiences, conversations and interviews with long-term meditators, and consistent reports from various books and online forums.

100 Hours
  • Less stress and anxiety
  • Less fear
  • Fewer feelings of loneliness
  • Increased optimism
  • Increased self-esteem
  • Increased focus
  • Improved immune system and energy
1000 Hours
  • Almost superhuman focus compared to coworkers
  • Sense of being driven, aware, intuitive
  • Will have experienced deep, psychedelic states
  • Increased capacity to experience love
  • Reduced need for sleep
  • Increased physical and emotional sensitivity
  • Much sharper in anything that requires intense concentration
  • Significantly higher tolerance for pain
5000 Hours
  • Very little attachment to any point of view
  • Much of your ego will dissolve
  • Won’t obsess over emotions, if something comes up you’ll be able to drop it pretty much instantly
  • Deep feelings of peace will pop up unexpectedly and stay for unpredictable amounts of time
  • Much more control over automatic reactions, so things like worries, fears, anger, hatred will not stay around long enough to impact you
  • Boredom won’t occur
  • Monkey mind will not disappear, but will be calm and can be seen with complete clarity

While 100 hours is just 40 days more for us (and I'm already seeing many of the mentioned benefits), 500 hours, with one hour of practice a day, is almost a year and a half. And 1000 hours is almost three years of daily practice. I won't even mention 5,000 hours or the incredible 12,000 to 62,000 lifetime hours of practice for world-class meditators.

In other words, this is a lifetime practice, not something you learn once and know well forever.

5. Meditation is a gateway drug. Meditation directed me toward Michael A. Singer's work (mentioned on this forum repeatedly, particularly by @MJ DeMarco) and now I can't see the world in the same way as before.

It will reorganize your entire life, change your priorities, and make you realize that the stuff you're looking for is actually not outside but inside.

Meditation/mindfulness also greatly complements entrepreneurship as it's impossible not to succeed if you're extremely conscious, focused, and approach the world from the position of an honest giver.

Technical Observations

A few technical observations for meditation in itself:

1. There's no "bad" meditation, just like there's no "bad" practice where you repeat the same thing over and over again. But you'll be tempted to call many of your sessions "bad." Out of my 60 sessions so far, I'd say that I had maybe 5-10 really exceptional sessions, defined as sessions when I entered a deep state. Then there were roughly 20-30 sessions that were just okay and the rest was either bad or terrible, defined as struggling to control my mind and failing at it.

But in reality, every session is useful. Because it's not about whether your mind is empty or not, but about the practice of watching your mind in itself.

2. Your position matters a lot. If you're uncomfortable, you won't be able to relax and focus on what's going on inside. Experienced meditators probably can meditate while hanging upside down, but we newbies can't.

So don't force yourself into some weird position. I can't sit with my back straight for a full hour without any support. After trial and error, now I sit on a sofa, with my back against the cushions and my legs either outstretched, resting on a cushion placed on a coffee table in front of me, or simply on the ground.

Again, to reiterate: if you aren't comfortable, this will be a terrible experience. So find a way to really relax your body. Don't sit in a cross-legged position if it doesn't work for you. This isn't about some sexy exotic positions reserved for meditators.

I think that meditating in a float tank would be best as it's as relaxed as you can get but this is obviously impractical for most people, particularly to do it daily. If I lived in a house, I'd probably invest in one. Perhaps one day.

3. What you ate the day before will impact your session the next morning. You'll be surprised how in tune you'll be with whatever your body is digesting as you meditate. Including all the delicious sounds, smells, etc. LOL

4. Your sleep quality will influence your sessions, too. I had at least 10 sessions (probably more) where being half-awake was an issue. I had to focus on not falling asleep vs on watching my mind.

5. Set two two timers - an alarm clock and a timer. This way you'll get rid of the anxiety, wondering if you set the timer. Perhaps with time you won't need it (I now more or less know when the session is about to end), but I found it very comforting.
 

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Amazing thread, and now that people winding up to their 60th day, time to go GOLD.
Very well deserved, this is one of my favorite threads in the forum! :) Congrats @MTF and everyone else who took on the challenge!

5. Meditation is a gateway drug. Meditation directed me toward Michael A. Singer's work (mentioned on this forum repeatedly, particularly by @MJ DeMarco) and now I can't see the world in the same way as before.

It will reorganize your entire life, change your priorities, and make you realize that the stuff you're looking for is actually not outside but inside.

Meditation/mindfulness also greatly complements entrepreneurship as it's impossible not to succeed if you're extremely conscious, focused, and approach the world from the position of an honest giver.
I have noticed a lot of this myself ever since learning meditation. Beforehand, I was very much into motivational speakers, or Tony Robbins state changes & focus kinda work. That certainly works for a lot of people, I don't know where you stand on that, but personally, I have found it to be working at a more superficial level. Whereas meditation is definitely slower in terms of results, however, the changes seem to be more lasting.

That's one reason why today I find it harder to listen to motivational speakers than when I was younger. I find those to be "just thoughts" and noise - you don't need that to be successful ultimately. Sort of feels like a crutch.

For myself, meditation, and the entire mindset around it, has helped me deal with anxiety MUCH better than motivational speakers, Tony Robbins, etc.

So I'm not sure if it's the fastest way to become "more successful" as an entrepreneur if we consider more successful to be just financially, but I find the changes to be more lasting, and deeper.
 

redshift

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You cease to be reactive and impulsive (which is the cause of most problems in life). I used to struggle with anger attacks, sometimes for really silly reasons - for example, when I hit my head against something.

Great summary. This reminded me of the famous Viktor Frankl quote:

“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”


That space of course IS mindfulness! ( and it gets larger the more you meditate ).

You become more peaceful and content. This is particularly influenced by Michael A. Singer's work. Since this is not a thread about spirituality but about meditation in itself,

Great point. I think this would we should definitely start one on the forum, or maybe even add a spirituality or mindfulness section. I'd be interested in discussing these topics more and other forum members might find it useful as well I think. Guess that would be @MJ DeMarco's call?

2. Your position matters a lot. If you're uncomfortable, you won't be able to relax and focus on what's going on inside. Experienced meditators probably can meditate while hanging upside down, but we newbies can't.

So don't force yourself into some weird position. I can't sit with my back straight for a full hour without any support. After trial and error, now I sit on a sofa, with my back against the cushions and my legs either outstretched, resting on a cushion placed on a coffee table in front of me, or simply on the ground.

Again, to reiterate: if you aren't comfortable, this will be a terrible experience. So find a way to really relax your body. Don't sit in a cross-legged position if it doesn't work for you. This isn't about some sexy exotic positions reserved for meditators.

I thought you said there are no bad experiences in the point above so how can this be terrible then :p ? Just another point of reference - In my experience, some of my deepest meditations initially were when I went from sitting on the couch to cross legged on the floor (with the help of a block). It made me realize that there is truly no such thing as a bad meditation, and struggling with the body is just another part of the game (it's not all about the mind), and of course the struggle part isn't even really an issue after a while.

But related to this - One thing I would recommend for anyone looking to improve their meditation is adding a Yoga practice before (and a gentle walk after). I started doing this after reading the surrender experiment since singer recommended it and it was definitely a game changer for me. If you do a strong power yoga type flow before meditation it is a completely different experience. As a side effect, I am at my strongest I've ever been physically as well (just thanks to this) and it will solve all your falling asleep during meditation problems as well! The walk after helps with blood flow and lets us take in and appreciate all the small things around us :)
 

metallon

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Thoughts and Observations After 60 Days of Meditating 60 Minutes a Day

General Observations

1. Meditation is just a tool, not an end in itself. I started working with Michael A. Singer's stuff roughly 2-3 weeks after I started this challenge. And that's when I realized that by itself, meditation, while useful, is missing a huge piece of the puzzle. And that piece is the fact that meditation is a tool to help us:
  • notice what's inside of us (few people ever get to stop to watch the chaos in their heads),
  • learn that we don't have to follow/act on the thoughts/emotions that we think/feel (the act of watching them is essentially what the meditative practice is about),
  • most importantly: that we aren't our minds. We're the consciousness that happens to be observing the mind. Just like you aren't your leg, so you aren't your mind (which is very, very hard to understand and I'm still struggling with this concept; yet know deep down that it's true). The mind is a computer that was fed certain data (stuff that happened to us) and so now behaves a certain way. As Michael beautifully puts it: "Take a computer, fill it with certain data and then ask it a question. It'll come up with a certain answer. Don't change the data but keep asking the question. You're getting the same answer. Because it's the only data it has. Change its data, you'll get totally different answers. That's how you look at every human being you meet from now on."
2. Coupled with the above, meditation is an extremely powerful tool to improve your emotional control. You cease to be reactive and impulsive (which is the cause of most problems in life). I used to struggle with anger attacks, sometimes for really silly reasons - for example, when I hit my head against something.

Meditation helped me, figuratively, increase the time that passes between the first sign of an emotion (say, anger) and the time when it's impossible not to express it. The magic happens in between - when you observe the emotion as it grows and you decide to just watch it, not feeding it. It's amazing how these emotions melt away when you simply choose to watch them. Note that you don't fight with them in any way. You're just focusing on being okay feeling them but not taking any action whatsoever.

For example, recently I had a language class during which I struggled to repeat a sound correctly. I noticed growing frustration inside me. I realized that my entire body was getting tense and I was about to react to it. I kept observing the emotion, consciously relaxed my body and it went away. I use the same technique almost every day whenever something/someone provokes a negative reaction in me.

3. Meditation and mindfulness will change every aspect of your life. I could have written several seperate points about different areas of life, but ultimately it's such a powerful meta-habit it makes no sense to list them all. I'll just give a few real life examples.
  • When you meditate, you focus on what's going on in your head. With practice, you learn to notice when your thoughts drift away, when you refocus, and when something distracts you again. This skill is incredibly useful in conversations. When I talk with people now, I focus 100% on what they're saying. Thanks to meditation, whenever I feel my thoughts drifting away, I can quickly refocus and not lose focus on the other person. In a world with so many people who easily get distracted, this is an immensely powerful skill.
  • As you meditate more, it gets easier and easier to focus. You no longer need a distraction to let your mind rest. You don't have to switch from one task to another. For example, as I was watching a movie with my girlfriend (The Soul, which is a pretty good movie for anyone into mindfulness), she asked to take a break so she could "distract" herself a little (she wanted to check her podcast performance so she's excused LOL). Usually I'd check social media during such a break. This time I simply sat and pondered on the movie. I didn't need to switch my focus to something else to relax.
  • Practicing meditation and mindfulness slightly slows down the pace at which the life around you unfolds. Or so it feels. A second feels a little longer than a second. You start noticing beautiful things you haven't seen before. Someone's brief smile. The way dust particles float in your living room when the sun is shining outside. Or more practically, the bad position of your wrist when performing a certain exercise or your reaction time to something potentially dangerous happening while you drive.
  • You become more peaceful and content. This is particularly influenced by Michael A. Singer's work. Since this is not a thread about spirituality but about meditation in itself, I'll just say that meditation shows you that you can be 100% okay without any external stimuli. In other words, you don't need ANYTHING to feel great. Naval once said (I think in an interview with Tim Ferriss) that morning meditation is his best time of the day. The outer world has little to offer if the act of sitting still (something available to everyone for free) is your greatest mood booster.
4. 60 hours is nothing. While of course that's 60 hours more than zero, in meditation we always want to cultivate the beginner's mind as @Olimac21 pointed out. Being arrogant about one's meditation/mindfulness practices is antithetical to spirituality. Arrogance is the ego/the judgmental mind, which is the thing we want to stop confusing with ourselves.

As for the hours of practice and potential effects, consider the following: @Mutant once cited data from this site:



While 100 hours is just 40 days more for us (and I'm already seeing many of the mentioned benefits), 500 hours, with one hour of practice a day, is almost a year and a half. And 1000 hours is almost three years of daily practice. I won't even mention 5,000 hours or the incredible 12,000 to 62,000 lifetime hours of practice for world-class meditators.

In other words, this is a lifetime practice, not something you learn once and know well forever.

5. Meditation is a gateway drug. Meditation directed me toward Michael A. Singer's work (mentioned on this forum repeatedly, particularly by @MJ DeMarco) and now I can't see the world in the same way as before.

It will reorganize your entire life, change your priorities, and make you realize that the stuff you're looking for is actually not outside but inside.

Meditation/mindfulness also greatly complements entrepreneurship as it's impossible not to succeed if you're extremely conscious, focused, and approach the world from the position of an honest giver.

Technical Observations

A few technical observations for meditation in itself:

1. There's no "bad" meditation, just like there's no "bad" practice where you repeat the same thing over and over again. But you'll be tempted to call many of your sessions "bad." Out of my 60 sessions so far, I'd say that I had maybe 5-10 really exceptional sessions, defined as sessions when I entered a deep state. Then there were roughly 20-30 sessions that were just okay and the rest was either bad or terrible, defined as struggling to control my mind and failing at it.

But in reality, every session is useful. Because it's not about whether your mind is empty or not, but about the practice of watching your mind in itself.

2. Your position matters a lot. If you're uncomfortable, you won't be able to relax and focus on what's going on inside. Experienced meditators probably can meditate while hanging upside down, but we newbies can't.

So don't force yourself into some weird position. I can't sit with my back straight for a full hour without any support. After trial and error, now I sit on a sofa, with my back against the cushions and my legs either outstretched, resting on a cushion placed on a coffee table in front of me, or simply on the ground.

Again, to reiterate: if you aren't comfortable, this will be a terrible experience. So find a way to really relax your body. Don't sit in a cross-legged position if it doesn't work for you. This isn't about some sexy exotic positions reserved for meditators.

I think that meditating in a float tank would be best as it's as relaxed as you can get but this is obviously impractical for most people, particularly to do it daily. If I lived in a house, I'd probably invest in one. Perhaps one day.

3. What you ate the day before will impact your session the next morning. You'll be surprised how in tune you'll be with whatever your body is digesting as you meditate. Including all the delicious sounds, smells, etc. LOL

4. Your sleep quality will influence your sessions, too. I had at least 10 sessions (probably more) where being half-awake was an issue. I had to focus on not falling asleep vs on watching my mind.

5. Set two two timers - an alarm clock and a timer. This way you'll get rid of the anxiety, wondering if you set the timer. Perhaps with time you won't need it (I now more or less know when the session is about to end), but I found it very comforting.

Kindly pin this post in the front page of this thread. It would help the beginners.
 

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MTF

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Very well deserved, this is one of my favorite threads in the forum! :) Congrats @MTF and everyone else who took on the challenge!

Thanks. Hoping to read the thoughts of other people when they complete their "final" day.

I have noticed a lot of this myself ever since learning meditation. Beforehand, I was very much into motivational speakers, or Tony Robbins state changes & focus kinda work. That certainly works for a lot of people, I don't know where you stand on that, but personally, I have found it to be working at a more superficial level. Whereas meditation is definitely slower in terms of results, however, the changes seem to be more lasting.

That's one reason why today I find it harder to listen to motivational speakers than when I was younger. I find those to be "just thoughts" and noise - you don't need that to be successful ultimately. Sort of feels like a crutch.

Tony Robbins is a little more spiritually oriented than some other motivational gurus and coaches who are very firmly rooted in their egos (usually these are about "hustling," "crushing competition," "crushing your day," "being a beast," etc.). Ultimately what they teach doesn't solve much if you're looking for happiness. It may help build a business, but I daresay most people want to build a business to ultimately be happy, not necessarily just to build a business as an end in itself. There's always another layer underneath. Meditation helps uncover it.

Great summary. This reminded me of the famous Viktor Frankl quote:

“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”

That space of course IS mindfulness! ( and it gets larger the more you meditate ).

Nice quote, that's very well put.

Great point. I think this would we should definitely start one on the forum, or maybe even add a spirituality or mindfulness section. I'd be interested in discussing these topics more and other forum members might find it useful as well I think. Guess that would be @MJ DeMarco's call?

There's a thread on Michael A. Singer's work and a subforum on personal growth so I think this is well covered. But not my call.

I thought you said there are no bad experiences in the point above so how can this be terrible then

Ha that should have been put in quotation marks. But upon explaining there's no bad meditation, I think it's clear that it's only used figuratively, not literally.

Kindly pin this post in the front page of this thread. It would help the beginners.

I added a link to my summary post in my first post.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Great point. I think this would we should definitely start one on the forum, or maybe even add a spirituality or mindfulness section. I'd be interested in discussing these topics more and other forum members might find it useful as well I think. Guess that would be @MJ DeMarco's call?

These conversations are already welcome on the forum, namely in the mindset forum. If we create a mindfulness or spirituality forum it opens the door to religious convos. In some respects some could argue that, "spirituality" is a form of religion so I'd rather keep things as they are, and keep these conversations in the MINDSET forums.

I'm happy to see them around the forum, just don't think a separate section is necessary.
 

Black_Dragon43

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If we create a mindfulness or spirituality forum it opens the door to religious convos.
Yes, totally agreed. A special section will pretty much invite people to having religious convos. I think that for the most part this community is mature enough not to proselytize, but even so, things can quickly escalate.

So I agree with MJ, that we shouldn’t have a separate section.

In addition, I would add though that religion is ultimately different from politics, in that it is inescapable. Both can be hot button issues, however, religion tends to color all of one’s life, whereas people can easily be apolitical, or totally not interested in politics. In that way, one’s religion probably has very important effects on how they approach entrepreneurship and building a business. Even a rejection of religion, ie atheism, behaves like a religion in practice and relies on foundational presuppositions which one cannot not make.

In some respects some could argue that, "spirituality" is a form of religion
Indeed... religion cannot be stripped from dogma to get a dogma-free spirituality. An interpretative framework is always necessary... even if that framework happens to be the iconoclastic rejection of all dogma of something like Zen Buddhism, which is ultimately it’s own dogma... basically a presupposition that all “spiritual” experience is transparent... its truth is contained within itself and it cannot be deceptive, hence no need for dogmas - all you need is direct experience. Also falls prey to the pragmatic fallacy - “if it works, the whole thing, even its interpretation, must be true”.

Now there are some “spiritual hygene” practices such as meditation which are universal. I guess we could call those “spiritual”. That I wholeheartedly agree with, however, veering off into dogma and religion isn’t far away... for example, while reading Untethered Soul, I found myself agreeing with ~95% of what I read from the entire book, apart from the last chapter, with which I had massive disagreements.
 

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"Bhagavan sometimes told a story about a man who wanted to bury his shadow in a pit. He dug the pit and stood in such a position that his shadow was on the bottom of it. The man then tried to bury it by covering it with earth. Each time he threw some soil in the hole, the shadow appeared on top of it. Of course, he never succeeded in burying the shadow. Many people behave like this when they meditate. They take the mind to be real, try to fight it and kill it, and always fail. These fights against the mind are all mental activities which strengthen the mind instead of weakening it. If you want to get rid of the mind, all you have to do is understand that it is ‘not me’. Cultivate the awareness ‘I am the immanent consciousness’. When that understanding becomes firm, the non-existent mind will not trouble you."
 

Sheens

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Finished Day 60! What a ride!

It's left me feeling all sleepy tonight, will write up thoughts tomorrow.

Really excited for everyone that has started and completed! Cheers!
 

redshift

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These conversations are already welcome on the forum, namely in the mindset forum. If we create a mindfulness or spirituality forum it opens the door to religious convos. In some respects some could argue that, "spirituality" is a form of religion so I'd rather keep things as they are, and keep these conversations in the MINDSET forums.

I'm happy to see them around the forum, just don't think a separate section is necessary.

Yeah, good point. "Spirituality" can easily be confused with religion and will probably invite these types of convos. "Mindfulness" in the modern era though is specifically devoid of religion so I don't think people would confuse it with religious aspects (but honestly idk). In its essence its basically Zen without the buddhist elements.

My main reasoning was - if someone is interested in this stuff or wants to know more, then they just click on the mindfulness section and can see all the threads related to it. 'Mindset' can sometimes be construed as the Tony Robbins / beast mode type stuff and there's definitely a difference between the two approaches (as mentioned above).

But yeah, I just noticed we have a "Self-Development" section with the title "Change you inner head game", which is where this thread lives, so I think that's fine and covers this whole spectrum. Agreed, probably don't need a new one.
 

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