Is opening a Coffee Shop a good idea ?

[Camaro68]

I dont want to discourage you from your dream, so take these comments with a grain of salt. I think it would be very difficult to distinguish yourself from the hundreds of other competitors.

When I think of opening a coffee shop, I think of, how will I beat the other guy. Two main methods come to mind, and that's about it because lets face it, there are a ton of cool places to hang out that serve pretty good coffee and have great ambiance full of attractive people.

1. Location: I think this is a huge make or break deal. Are you near a college campus? Heavy foot traffic? These spots usually demand higher rents, but if you're planning on opening a coffee shop off the beaten path I'd be very careful. You can have a mediocre coffee shop in a great location and still do ok, you can have a great coffee shop in a terrible location and never make it.

2. Quality: This is a tough one. I've been to both Paris and Italy and I love the coffee, I don't think Starbucks is anything special, in fact I think its mediocre coffee branded well and priced at a super premium. However, people love it, they pay for it, and they snap instagram pics of the cups for their friends to see, its a cultural thing. Plenty of people couldn't tell the difference between genuinely GOOD/GREAT coffee and downright terrible coffee. In fact I bet in a blind taste test you could probably make a cup of instant coffee and a cup of fresh roasted organic blah blah and I bet you'd be surprised at what most people picked that they like. The only people that are going to care about your "Authentic machines" and best practices are going to be the extreme coffee aficionados, similar to the craft beer crowd today. Does the area have a high population of these types of people? Are there forums/clubs that you can attract these people to your shop? Most people cant tell the difference between regular gas station coffee and the craft coffee, and that's the honest truth, so if your competitive advantage is that you will have a better quality product, I would worry.

It sounds like you want a traditional coffee shop, paying homage to the old ways, old country. That's fine and sounds cool, a place I would probably check out, but most customers wouldn't go out of their way to go there I don't think because they don't differentiate between regular and actually good or great coffee.

 

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[ALC]

I dont want to discourage you from your dream, so take these comments with a grain of salt. I think it would be very difficult to distinguish yourself from the hundreds of other competitors.

When I think of opening a coffee shop, I think of, how will I beat the other guy. Two main methods come to mind, and that's about it because lets face it, there are a ton of cool places to hang out that serve pretty good coffee and have great ambiance full of attractive people.

1. Location: I think this is a huge make or break deal. Are you near a college campus? Heavy foot traffic? These spots usually demand higher rents, but if you're planning on opening a coffee shop off the beaten path I'd be very careful. You can have a mediocre coffee shop in a great location and still do ok, you can have a great coffee shop in a terrible location and never make it.

2. Quality: This is a tough one. I've been to both Paris and Italy and I love the coffee, I don't think Starbucks is anything special, in fact I think its mediocre coffee branded well and priced at a super premium. However, people love it, they pay for it, and they snap instagram pics of the cups for their friends to see, its a cultural thing. Plenty of people couldn't tell the difference between genuinely GOOD/GREAT coffee and downright terrible coffee. In fact I bet in a blind taste test you could probably make a cup of instant coffee and a cup of fresh roasted organic blah blah and I bet you'd be surprised at what most people picked that they like. The only people that are going to care about your "Authentic machines" and best practices are going to be the extreme coffee aficionados, similar to the craft beer crowd today. Does the area have a high population of these types of people? Are there forums/clubs that you can attract these people to your shop? Most people cant tell the difference between regular gas station coffee and the craft coffee, and that's the honest truth, so if your competitive advantage is that you will have a better quality product, I would worry.

It sounds like you want a traditional coffee shop, paying homage to the old ways, old country. That's fine and sounds cool, a place I would probably check out, but most customers wouldn't go out of their way to go there I don't think because they don't differentiate between regular and actually good or great coffee.

Actually, i don't want to open a simple traditional Coffee Shop, i want the traditional know-how and old machines, with traditional drinks AND couple of modern drink like Starbucks or others are doing, with good products where people could taste the real flavors and not sugars, and try to create a brand like Starbucks did with theirs cups (people with their cups on instagram..). I know that most of people would not even see/taste the difference because for them it's just simply Coffee, that's why i need to get something different from the market, in a kind of french/italian way.

The only problem i get at this moment is the Coffee Cups suppliers, as i want Printed (my logo) Coffee Cups, they ask for 25 000 units per size and it's HUGE, in euros it's not far from 5 000 Euros... i know i can start without but it's 'free' publicity when they hangout with my cups..

 

[ALC]

You should be selling shovels.

Do you roast?

Been thinking about selling shovels lately, i mean we got 2 main suppliers, one is selling a thing that the other isn't, the list is long...
If there is ONE BIG guy in the party, is there any chance for me to grow ? (he already got lightning speed delivery, perfect quality services/delivery, a good variety of products and very good feedbacks)

Because opening a new concept of Coffee Shop is easier than growing a e-commerce business in my opinion (financially speaking), but could also be way more rewarding and scalable than a shop...

Little update on my project : 2 commercials spaces in sight, negociations has started, things moving.

 

[garyjsmith]

I think it would be beneficial, BUT, it will take some time and effort to learn how and make connections with people selling the raw beans. Still something you should look into. Skilled roasters are known around the world and have the ability to craft the taste people will seek out. For some reason, bright and lemony is the in flavor right now state-side.

 

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[ALC]

I think it would be beneficial, BUT, it will take some time and effort to learn how and make connections with people selling the raw beans. Still something you should look into. Skilled roasters are known around the world and have the ability to craft the taste people will seek out. For some reason, bright and lemony is the in flavor right now state-side.

Even if i'm trying to open my first shop, roasting my own coffee is something i'm looking to do and sell small 250gr coffee beans in the shop.. !
I already got a perfect supplier (italian coffee) but the idea of making my own coffee got me very interested.

Also here in France, light roasting and lemony flavours

 

[garyjsmith]

I think I had mentioned it before but my brother-in-law is a roaster here in Virginia. I'm sure he could get you started on what you should be learning, what equipment you need, and tips on getting certain flavors. They do sell small 1lb roasters so you wouldn't have to invest in one of the huge models.

 

[ALC]

I think I had mentioned it before but my brother-in-law is a roaster here in Virginia. I'm sure he could get you started on what you should be learning, what equipment you need, and tips on getting certain flavors. They do sell small 1lb roasters so you wouldn't have to invest in one of the huge models.

Why not, could you ask him if he got some books recommandations ?
I've seen the small roasters it's interesting to learn how to roast, will definitly take a look.

 

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[Fpm9]

I dont want to discourage you from your dream, so take these comments with a grain of salt. I think it would be very difficult to distinguish yourself from the hundreds of other competitors.

When I think of opening a coffee shop, I think of, how will I beat the other guy. Two main methods come to mind, and that's about it because lets face it, there are a ton of cool places to hang out that serve pretty good coffee and have great ambiance full of attractive people.

1. Location: I think this is a huge make or break deal. Are you near a college campus? Heavy foot traffic? These spots usually demand higher rents, but if you're planning on opening a coffee shop off the beaten path I'd be very careful. You can have a mediocre coffee shop in a great location and still do ok, you can have a great coffee shop in a terrible location and never make it.

2. Quality: This is a tough one. I've been to both Paris and Italy and I love the coffee, I don't think Starbucks is anything special, in fact I think its mediocre coffee branded well and priced at a super premium. However, people love it, they pay for it, and they snap instagram pics of the cups for their friends to see, its a cultural thing. Plenty of people couldn't tell the difference between genuinely GOOD/GREAT coffee and downright terrible coffee. In fact I bet in a blind taste test you could probably make a cup of instant coffee and a cup of fresh roasted organic blah blah and I bet you'd be surprised at what most people picked that they like. The only people that are going to care about your "Authentic machines" and best practices are going to be the extreme coffee aficionados, similar to the craft beer crowd today. Does the area have a high population of these types of people? Are there forums/clubs that you can attract these people to your shop? Most people cant tell the difference between regular gas station coffee and the craft coffee, and that's the honest truth, so if your competitive advantage is that you will have a better quality product, I would worry.

It sounds like you want a traditional coffee shop, paying homage to the old ways, old country. That's fine and sounds cool, a place I would probably check out, but most customers wouldn't go out of their way to go there I don't think because they don't differentiate between regular and actually good or great coffee.

I see another way to compete with other coffee shops : Price. I currently live in Paris area, but I've lived in north America before and I miss cheap 7-eleven or gas station coffee. Sometime I don't care about getting great quality coffee, I just want to grab a cup of coffee to get my caffeine fix and go to the library, without spending 4€ or more. I don't think you can find a large cup of dripped coffee for less than 3.5€ where I live ( about $4 ). But I think this is the opposite of what OP concept is lol.

I don't know where you're from exactly OP but from what I see in Paris, many coffee shops ( other than Starbucks or Costa ) tend to look like a pretentious and overpriced hipsters shops. They all look like they offer the same drinks and food, even though they say their offer is "unique". On the other hand, I don't remember seeing some "french/italian" coffee shop, so your idea might be different.

 

[ALC]

I see another way to compete with other coffee shops : Price. I currently live in Paris area, but I've lived in north America before and I miss cheap 7-eleven or gas station coffee. Sometime I don't care about getting great quality coffee, I just want to grab a cup of coffee to get my caffeine fix and go to the library, without spending 4€ or more. I don't think you can find a large cup of dripped coffee for less than 3.5€ where I live ( about $4 ). But I think this is the opposite of what OP concept is lol.

I don't know where you're from exactly OP but from what I see in Paris, many coffee shops ( other than Starbucks or Costa ) tend to look like a pretentious and overpriced hipsters shops. They all look like they offer the same drinks and food, even though they say their offer is "unique". On the other hand, I don't remember seeing some "french/italian" coffee shop, so your idea might be different.

Don't take it personally but i can't imagine an Espresso Bar with dripped coffee..at least not in my concept.
I know that Coffee these day as gone through some innovation (New drip methods, Nitro Coffee....) but this is definitly not a thing even in Paris, only few people take Drip coffee (i've worked in top 3 coffee shop in Paris so i can tell you this is true), we don't change our habits that much, we just expect a better quality.

Starbucks got less customers day after day, Costa it's the same, because more people take care of themselves, 1 week of Starbucks can make you gain serious weight .. they even add sugar in basic drinks like Latte or Cappuccino, just because their using shitty coffee beans..a real Cappuccino doesn't need sugar, the flavours of the coffee make the cappuccino itself delicious, normally.

 

[Fpm9]

Don't take it personally but i can't imagine an Espresso Bar with dripped coffee..at least not in my concept.
I know that Coffee these day as gone through some innovation (New drip methods, Nitro Coffee....) but this is definitly not a thing even in Paris, only few people take Drip coffee (i've worked in top 3 coffee shop in Paris so i can tell you this is true), we don't change our habits that much, we just expect a better quality.

Starbucks got less customers day after day, Costa it's the same, because more people take care of themselves, 1 week of Starbucks can make you gain serious weight .. they even add sugar in basic drinks like Latte or Cappuccino, just because their using shitty coffee beans..a real Cappuccino doesn't need sugar, the flavours of the coffee make the cappuccino itself delicious, normally.

Yeah no worries I know its not part of your concept. I rarely get drip coffee either, I usually get a double espresso when I go to a coffee shop. I was talking about drip coffee as a totally different type of business.

Many people go to Starbucks for the same reason they go to Mcdonalds, because thet know what to expect ( and many of them won't care about their diet ). Do you think there is a need in your area for great quality coffee ? Do you think people will change their habits so they can try different coffee ?
Personally I love a good espresso and I wouldn't mind a bit more spending more / walking a bit further to get one.

 

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[garyjsmith]

Sam says:

The Book of Roast - Roast Magazine
Modulating the Profile of Coffee - Rob Hoos
The Coffee Roasters Companion - Scott Rao
and
online resources from the Specialty Coffee Association (SCA)

Also, he said if you have any questions, his email is samkayser91 @ gmail dot com.

 

[ALC]

Sam says:

The Book of Roast - Roast Magazine
Modulating the Profile of Coffee - Rob Hoos
The Coffee Roasters Companion - Scott Rao
and
online resources from the Specialty Coffee Association (SCA)

Also, he said if you have any questions, his email is samkayser91 @ gmail dot com.

Interesting ! Thank you guys!

 

[ALC]

Yeah no worries I know its not part of your concept. I rarely get drip coffee either, I usually get a double espresso when I go to a coffee shop. I was talking about drip coffee as a totally different type of business.

Many people go to Starbucks for the same reason they go to Mcdonalds, because thet know what to expect ( and many of them won't care about their diet ). Do you think there is a need in your area for great quality coffee ? Do you think people will change their habits so they can try different coffee ?
Personally I love a good espresso and I wouldn't mind a bit more spending more / walking a bit further to get one.

For sure it's a different type of business, but there is a market for it so why not take advantages of it ? I understand

1. Yes, did my research and examinated the area, tried every coffee in town, absolutely atrocious (like, horrible..)
2. I've asked many people about that, in fact they're waiting for me to open so they could take the greatest Coffee in town
I wish people had the curiosity even one time to try good coffee from a local coffee shop/roaster, freshly grinded, i know that they would change their habits instantly due to the HUGE difference of quality between Nespresso and freshly grinded Coffee Beans..

People are also changing theirs habits because they see a kind of hype by having a cool coffee machines at home, grind themselves the coffee and all that stuff, they put it on IG/Facebook...that's good for us

 

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[TheCj]

Not sure if i missed it in the thread, have you tried selling your own product(s)? Do you know if people like it? Is there any way you could start with a food truck type deal? Or a coffee cart or rent/carve out another section in your existing store? Basically anyway to test small, get feedback demand etc..

 

[ALC]

Not sure if i missed it in the thread, have you tried selling your own product(s)? Do you know if people like it? Is there any way you could start with a food truck type deal? Or a coffee cart or rent/carve out another section in your existing store? Basically anyway to test small, get feedback demand etc..

Nope, in fact i'm in the process of opening my own Espresso Bar, in France.
A new concept, which would provide new products, never seen on the french market, even for the Coffee beans.

 

[Fpm9]

Do you know where you will open this store ? Is there many other coffee shops / cafés in the area ? Is it mostly a business / shopping / residential area ?

 

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[ALC]

Do you know where you will open this store ? Is there many other coffee shops / cafés in the area ? Is it mostly a business / shopping / residential area ?

Yes, in a provencal city, in the south of france. In the historical center of the city.
Yes there is cafés (french way/brasserie) but no CoffeeShop/Espresso bar, and this is all in one (business/shopping/residential).

 

[Camaro68]

Anyone have thoughts about coffee shops being a "fad" or trend to get the best cup similar to the current craft beer trend? Granted coffee shops have been around for quite a while longer than craft beer fad, but just saying.

I have a friend who works for what I call a mid level craft beer company, for the past 15yrs. They have def noticed a hit to sales due to the fact that everyone and their brother thinks its cool to make beer and open a craft brewery with restaurant and sell their own label, but eventually the market gets saturated and there is little brand loyalty. People go into the liquor store and pick something new they haven't tried yet, buying a new pack each visit. The larger guys get some repeats when customers just want something they knew is decent. He said the business is simply waiting out the small fish until they fold. Many guys start a brewery cause they think its "cool" but don't know how to run a business and fold within a year or two.

Just wondering if there are parallels here. Also, what is your exit strategy? At least with beer, if you have a large enough following you can hope to capture enough market share that the big boys take notice and perhaps buy you out...I don't see that happening in the coffee space..is there an exit strategy? I don't think there has to be, but I just think its another limiting factor in the business, as well as the fact that it might be hard to find a buyer when you want to sell/retire. If you have something that is working, what is stopping someone from buying the same equipment as you, with the same décor and opening up next door with enough capital, while undercutting your prices and waiting you out? At least with craft beer you have a brewer with perhaps unique recipes/flavors...I think you are more limited in the coffee space. You don't have recipes for you cups.

Just adding input to the convo, what I would be thinking if I was gonna open a coffee shop. I think it would be a tough space to compete in.

 

[ALC]

Anyone have thoughts about coffee shops being a "fad" or trend to get the best cup similar to the current craft beer trend? Granted coffee shops have been around for quite a while longer than craft beer fad, but just saying.

I have a friend who works for what I call a mid level craft beer company, for the past 15yrs. They have def noticed a hit to sales due to the fact that everyone and their brother thinks its cool to make beer and open a craft brewery with restaurant and sell their own label, but eventually the market gets saturated and there is little brand loyalty. People go into the liquor store and pick something new they haven't tried yet, buying a new pack each visit. The larger guys get some repeats when customers just want something they knew is decent. He said the business is simply waiting out the small fish until they fold. Many guys start a brewery cause they think its "cool" but don't know how to run a business and fold within a year or two.

Just wondering if there are parallels here. Also, what is your exit strategy? At least with beer, if you have a large enough following you can hope to capture enough market share that the big boys take notice and perhaps buy you out...I don't see that happening in the coffee space..is there an exit strategy? I don't think there has to be, but I just think its another limiting factor in the business, as well as the fact that it might be hard to find a buyer when you want to sell/retire. If you have something that is working, what is stopping someone from buying the same equipment as you, with the same décor and opening up next door with enough capital, while undercutting your prices and waiting you out? At least with craft beer you have a brewer with perhaps unique recipes/flavors...I think you are more limited in the coffee space. You don't have recipes for you cups.

Just adding input to the convo, what I would be thinking if I was gonna open a coffee shop. I think it would be a tough space to compete in.

I don't have any exit strategy, this is a lifetime project, i've been working on it for 2 years, i only aim success and developping myself slowly but surely.
But there's a need for what i will do, at least i'm convinced that there's one and i will work my a$$ off to develop my shop.

Beer Market Opportunity : Create great beer and sell it to supermarkets / Pub - Bartender owner, possibility of making a lot of money if you sell to Walmart for example.

Coffee Market Opportunity : Exactly the same, Roast / Create good coffee, make a great packaging and branding, get your name out there and present your product to Walmart and hope to sell it to their store and on an e-commerce store and see your sales growing each day, it's just execution and constant quality.

 

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[Puppy]

my understanding is this isnt about coffee. coffee has no value in itself. its not the coffee you are trying to sell or build a franchise with. its the value. what is the value you offer? having everything for everyone? atomophere? service? is your parents coffee house successful? what is making them successful? why are your competiters succesful?

one thing i dont understand is if starbucks sucks and are losing customers why are you using their ideas? if you need instagramable cups to get people interested and keep people interested and need to have those cups then you have no business and no, its not a good idea. now, can your coffee shop thrive with plain jane white cups with a simple logo?

edit added
scaleablility - once coffee house has proven it is successful with out a cool cup and has a strong customer base it engage them buy asking them to choose or design the cup. make a contest out of, and then you have serious customer engagement because someone is asking them what they want. social media hit and tremendous marketing oppertunity.

 

[ALC]

my understanding is this isnt about coffee. coffee has no value in itself. its not the coffee you are trying to sell or build a franchise with. its the value. what is the value you offer? having everything for everyone? atomophere? service? is your parents coffee house successful? what is making them successful? why are your competiters succesful?

one thing i dont understand is if starbucks sucks and are losing customers why are you using their ideas? if you need instagramable cups to get people interested and keep people interested and need to have those cups then you have no business and no, its not a good idea. now, can your coffee shop thrive with plain jane white cups with a simple logo?

edit added
scaleablility - once coffee house has proven it is successful with out a cool cup and has a strong customer base it engage them buy asking them to choose or design the cup. make a contest out of, and then you have serious customer engagement because someone is asking them what they want. social media hit and tremendous marketing oppertunity.

I got a big interest in Coffee, that's for sure, even if my passion is Automotive world and i always wanted to be a racecar driver but to be able to become one, you must have a huge amount of money so..
I've been in the coffee industry for 3 years and i love it, i love the vibes you get when you work in a coffee shop and managing one.

But yes it's about value, my concept is kind of new, no one as ever done what i want to do so yes, i guess it's value.
For the "is there a need?" Me and my brother who work in the top lawyer firms of France, we've been asking friends and coworkers to give feedbacks of my concept and they all say that they would be my first clients and would love to get a concept like mine near their firm, they can't stand hippies coffee shop, with haughty Baristas.
(Both in Paris and South of France)

Of course i would love to franchise it, it's one of my goal, but i will only do that if people like my concept. And yes the fact that i got everything, the atmosphere, the good services,good vibes, great products and also me who cares about my customers.
Why are they successful ? They've fulfilled a need in my city, no starbucks, no coffee shops, only us for 3 years so we've been smashing everything as i'm good in communication/marketing/branding (but we've choosed to go with a franchise in the first place because we didn't knew how to open a business at that time)
Starbucks is coming in the next 10 days and we know that this will have an impact on us, but not that big, because we are doing the same but better, we don't use sugar to add some kind of flavours to our drinks, we use good products such as real cacao, premium quality syrups with less sugar, home made pastries, foods is ordered from a craftman, the coffee is from a well known Coffee brand, we use real coffee machines with the know-how. There multiples reasons we're good, also because we don't mind about money but much of ours customers, make sure we're providing the best products they've ever had and make sure everything is ok.

I've been in Starbucks twice, the only thing i see is Mcdonalds, i mean the clothes they're wearing, the products, the drinks, it's a fast food not a coffee shop. This is definitly not the concept i want to open, a new traditionnal espresso bar is what i want to open.

Ask an italian to take a coffee in a starbucks and he will be screaming at you that you're crazy, Starbucks provide bad quality, i'm from the industry i know everything now and i can tell you, everything you order can make you fat in no time!
BUT, Starbucks has managed to create a brand with their logo and cups and people take their selfies or post them on instagram so yes it free publicity.

Yes it's scalable, no doubts, it's just that France is way smaller than USA and there will be a point where you can not have a new coffee shop because it will be full..

 

[Fpm9]

I think the opening of Starbucks in your area in the upcoming days will be a good sign of how customers will react. I'm pretty sure Starbucks will be full for the first week, but I wonder if their customers will keep coming back.

I'm writing this post from a Starbucks in Paris, and I made a few observations :

- I'm at Starbucks because it is more convenient : the other non-starbucks coffee shops are a bit far from the train station and I was too lazy to walk
- I know what to expect when I walk into Starbucks
- I had an espresso and even though its far from being great, I feel like they improved their coffee quality over the last few years
- There is almost no "Instagram kid" in the whole shop at the moment. Its a pretty big one and most people are here to use the wifi and work. I think you should not forget about those people who see coffee shop as a cool place to work.
- I wish they served better food. I'd love to have lunch here so I can keep working, but I'll go somewhere else ebcause of their food quality

 

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[ALC]

I think the opening of Starbucks in your area in the upcoming days will be a good sign of how customers will react. I'm pretty sure Starbucks will be full for the first week, but I wonder if their customers will keep coming back.

I'm writing this post from a Starbucks in Paris, and I made a few observations :

- I'm at Starbucks because it is more convenient : the other non-starbucks coffee shops are a bit far from the train station and I was too lazy to walk
- I know what to expect when I walk into Starbucks
- I had an espresso and even though its far from being great, I feel like they improved their coffee quality over the last few years
- There is almost no "Instagram kid" in the whole shop at the moment. Its a pretty big one and most people are here to use the wifi and work. I think you should not forget about those people who see coffee shop as a cool place to work.
- I wish they served better food. I'd love to have lunch here so I can keep working, but I'll go somewhere else ebcause of their food quality

Thanks for your feedbacks on Starbucks. What i can say on food is this : Not everyone can cook, and our margins are so low that hiring someone just to do that is not worth it.
So the next fastlane idea is..to become a producer > Create food for Coffee Shop.
But this is very complicated, i mean if you want to have a commercial space with a kitchen, you'll need an autorisation, you'll need an air evacuation (which not any building got) AND a chef/cooker..
Even for me, this is actually the hardest part of the concept : Making food while not hiring someone else, finding something that need 5min maximum to prepare.

 

[garyjsmith]

When you've had coffee made at the same site as the roasted bean, you can't help but express a 'wow;' it's that much of a difference. You're right about Starbucks' quality, but take a Sam Walton point of view and keep an eye on what they're doing right.

I have a friend that's heading out to France at the end of the month. Is your shop open and operational?

 

[ALC]

When you've had coffee made at the same site as the roasted bean, you can't help but express a 'wow;' it's that much of a difference. You're right about Starbucks' quality, but take a Sam Walton point of view and keep an eye on what they're doing right.

I have a friend that's heading out to France at the end of the month. Is your shop open and operational?

There a huge difference between Freshly Roasted beans and a package of 1years old roasted beans which come from a storage of starbucks...and also the quality of the beans, the know-how everything is kind of automatic and that's why it's easy to work at a Starbucks and this is an advantage for them.

Because us, real Baristas we took time to learn how to use an espresso machine and coffee grinder perfectly, to know everything between the grain harvesting from roasting it, using it in different way.
At Starbucks > You push a button and this is water that flows lol! (actually coffee but you got my point)

I've not been able to open mine for the moment because the owner of the commercial space i've been negociating with refused me the use of his terrace, it is a big loss of sales capacity...so i've told him that it was not possible. I kept his phone number if ever but i don't expect a phone call from him.

I got an another one with the same problem, but this time i have to wait for the authorization of the Town Hall...i'm looking for Paris right now but i don't like Paris that much.

I'm an italian, i need sun not rain.. and there is an opportunity in the South of France

 

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[RHL]

Just want to point out that most of the posters here have no idea what the B&M business world is like for restaurants in France. You need to consider that most Americans have Wawa or Starbucks or Dunkin Doughnuts in mind when they think of fastlane coffee businesses. I've honestly never been to Paris, but I know the environment in many other places in the EU is radically different from the US in terms of how coffee shops work and when/how they attract business.

 

[amp0193]

They have def noticed a hit to sales due to the fact that everyone and their brother thinks its cool to make beer and open a craft brewery with restaurant and sell their own label, but eventually the market gets saturated and there is little brand loyalty. .

That and beer consumption is down. Wine is on the rise with millennials.

So I've read.

 

[ALC]

In France, if it's good and trendy, it's fastlane for sure, example : One business as opened few years ago which is called "Big Fernand", simply a french way to do burgers with french cheese and great products, they've created an atmosphere in their shops.
Their burgers are not Hamburgers but 'Hamburgés', french fries are not french fries but 'Fernandines', just few cool example how to create a concept from our culture, but from one shop in Paris, then 2, now they are EVERYWHERE and even in Dubai i heard from the CEO. And the guy didn't invest that much in the first one due to the margins he make.

My concept could be fastlane too, i just have to wait and find the good commercial space and get the work done..i don't mind working from 8am to 8pm if it allows me to develop my concept.
Actually what do you think about breakfast ? I've been thinking about that lately, i don't know if it's interesting..

Also, everything is different here, taxes, human ressources, employees rights, hourly rate (paycheck) and that's why it's difficult to own a restaurant or any business, because some of your employees are lazy and you can't do a damn thing about it, in USA i heard that if you're not working and you're lazy you're fired, here we can't. (employees rights) I don't know if it's true btw..

We drink beer a lot, especially craft beers even if they're more expensive.
Same with wine, it's a tradition here, i drink wine every week and with family too.

 

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[Fpm9]

Thanks for your feedbacks on Starbucks. What i can say on food is this : Not everyone can cook, and our margins are so low that hiring someone just to do that is not worth it.
So the next fastlane idea is..to become a producer > Create food for Coffee Shop.
But this is very complicated, i mean if you want to have a commercial space with a kitchen, you'll need an autorisation, you'll need an air evacuation (which not any building got) AND a chef/cooker..
Even for me, this is actually the hardest part of the concept : Making food while not hiring someone else, finding something that need 5min maximum to prepare.

Yeah I can see why this might be difficult.. Is there a way you can get a partnership with a local restaurant or bakery, so they can supply food that you can then sell at your coffee shop ?

Just want to point out that most of the posters here have no idea what the B&M business world is like for restaurants in France. You need to consider that most Americans have Wawa or Starbucks or Dunkin Doughnuts in mind when they think of fastlane coffee businesses. I've honestly never been to Paris, but I know the environment in many other places in the EU is radically different from the US in terms of how coffee shops work and when/how they attract business.

Lol I was surprised you said Wawa, then I saw Location : PA

I don't know much about the business side, but from what I saw in both countries, french customers tend to stay for a long time at their coffee shop. Fewer people grab a coffee to drink it at work or in class. Maybe that's another reason coffee is more expensive here in France. The only type of coffee that is more expensive in the US are espressos, I guess its because of a lower demand. I usually go to coffee shop for first dates, and american girls were always surprised to see me ordering espressos

 

[ALC]

Yeah I can see why this might be difficult.. Is there a way you can get a partnership with a local restaurant or bakery, so they can supply food that you can then sell at your coffee shop ?



Lol I was surprised you said Wawa, then I saw Location : PA

I don't know much about the business side, but from what I saw in both countries, french customers tend to stay for a long time at their coffee shop. Fewer people grab a coffee to drink it at work or in class. Maybe that's another reason coffee is more expensive here in France. The only type of coffee that is more expensive in the US are espressos, I guess its because of a lower demand. I usually go to coffee shop for first dates, and american girls were always surprised to see me ordering espressos

Indeed, it's very difficult but few coffee shops has found success while preparing themselves their food, with a kitchen and a cooker, but it's in Paris ! They're some many people in Paris that you can open a shop next to an other one it would work...(that's why i think a lot about Paris).

For the bakery there's no problem i got everything, for the food i had a little idea from the start and it would work too but it takes time.
Ideally, i should do my idea (taking 5min to prepare) and also offer salads and stuff for the take away.

But in other city, it's different, less people, people live apart from others... so you have to be in the right spot and be the best (no problem i am) in order to be successful.

We drink a lot of coffee but not the one we should (instant coffee), Espressos are the top sellers in France.