23 and own shave ice shack, coffee shop, yet stuck

[Ryan Wolf]

Good luck and may the odds be ever in your favor!

I appreciate your input and comments. I will be meeting with the library soon and hope to get what I need to survive or get out of the lease.

 

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[ZF Lee]

@ChickenHawk

I've told her that I plan to close the shop down if the numbers don't improve dramatically by February 2017. She always retorts with what customers are saying and how the customers think that business will pick up. People mean the best, but numbers don't lie. That said, I'm not sure what to do with the shop. I'll most likely sell the shop or sell whatever equipment I can, but I've also flirted with the idea of just giving her the shop. I'll know for sure in a few months...

Yeah, I'm done working with family after this!

I know right! Family ties can be exploited terribly!
Besides, if the market doesn't care about family ties within the business, why should we let it become a barrier of a bias in building our Fastlanes?

 

[fhs8]

Based on customer feedback and speaking with my friends who own coffee shops, the location is a major issue, primarily because people don't know that we're here. Here are some key points:

The morning commute is on the other side of the road
There are many people who come into the library that don't even know we exist (in a corner, away from entrances)
We are not allowed to have any signage on, in or around the library
People think they have the wrong address because they're at a library instead of a coffee shop
People are afraid to talk because it is in a library (silly, but we hear that concern often)
The only school even close to the library is an elementary school (not my ideal clientele)
As I stand here right now, there are eleven people inside the library other than the librarians.

I still don't understand completely. Is your store entrance inside of the library or on the outside of the building? Did you count how many people walk in the library on each day? What percentage buy from you? If let's say on average 50 people walk in the library and every one of them bought a drink would you be able to hire someone and be profitable? If not then you bought yourself a job worse than McDonald's.

Yes, the marketing could be -and will be- improved. I don't see the logo being an issue. Prices are very close to Starbucks. The quality is super high. The majority of customers are from referrals. My mom and head barista were trained and certified by the one of best coffee schools in America. With their knowledge is how we found our coffee roaster. Our selection is good but we don't sell fake drinks (made famous by Starbucks) such as frappuccinos or iced cappuccinos, etc. Our pricing was set by my coffee mentor (a guy who owns 8 coffee shops).

Watch Kitchen Nightmares and you'll see everyone says that their food is great and even trained chefs making big mistakes. You need INDEPENDENT honest opinions not from family members. Your selection is horrible if you don't sell fraps. No wonder why you're failing. Starbucks, Peet's, The Coffee Bean, etc... All have those fake drinks. Why? Because they sell. The big guys use data and remove menu items that don't sell. Also frappuccino is trademarked so be sure to use another name so you don't get sued.

I've just told you one of the reasons why you're failing. You don't sell fraps and other "fake" drinks. Now are you going to add them or be in denial?

Also how does the inside of the coffee shop look? Does it look new and modern like all the big chains or are the chairs cheap plastic/vinyl?

 

[Ryan Wolf]

I still don't understand completely. Is your store entrance inside of the library or on the outside of the building? Did you count how many people walk in the library on each day? What percentage buy from you? If let's say on average 50 people walk in the library and every one of them bought a drink would you be able to hire someone and be profitable? If not then you bought yourself a job worse than McDonald's.

Watch Kitchen Nightmares and you'll see everyone says that their food is great and even trained chefs making big mistakes. You need INDEPENDENT honest opinions not from family members. Your selection is horrible if you don't sell fraps. No wonder why you're failing. Starbucks, Peet's, The Coffee Bean, etc... All have those fake drinks. Why? Because they sell. The big guys use data and remove menu items that don't sell. Also frappuccino is trademarked so be sure to use another name so you don't get sued.

I've just told you one of the reasons why you're failing. You don't sell fraps and other "fake" drinks. Now are you going to add them or be in denial?

Also how does the inside of the coffee shop look? Does it look new and modern like all the big chains or are the chairs cheap plastic/vinyl?

There is no outdoor entrance specifically for the coffee shop. On the inside, the shop is integrated into the library, so there are no walls. People can just walk up to our counter/café area. I haven't looked at what percentage of library patrons buy from me. I can tell you that it's low. During the day, the majority of people in the library are very low class, if not homeless. Not the kind of people who would buy drinks from any coffee shop, regardless of the menu/prices. As I mentioned, the majority of our customers are from referrals. But yes, I have bought myself a job, unfortunately.

The honest opinions are from real, independent people with whom I have no prior relationship. Plus, my dad admits he is not a fan of our coffee.

Starbucks is not the competition. We are in two VERY different segments. Trying to compare us to Starbucks is like comparing McDonalds to a high-end burger restaurant. Both places serve burgers, but the customers are different. That's not to say that I do not study Starbucks' success. In fact, I follow in a lot of their footsteps, but in the end I'm going after a different type of customer. My customers know coffee and some choose us because we keep our offerings traditional. However, we get requests for Frappuccinos about once every two weeks. If there is a dramatic increase in requests, then yes, I will work something up that would be similar to a Frappuccino.

A coffee shop's success is not dependent on serving Frappuccinos, though.

The library as a whole is very modern and upscale looking. It's not a cheap or tacky looking place.

 

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[fhs8]

There is no outdoor entrance specifically for the coffee shop. On the inside, the shop is integrated into the library, so there are no walls. People can just walk up to our counter/café area. I haven't looked at what percentage of library patrons buy from me. I can tell you that it's low. During the day, the majority of people in the library are very low class, if not homeless. Not the kind of people who would buy drinks from any coffee shop, regardless of the menu/prices. As I mentioned, the majority of our customers are from referrals. But yes, I have bought myself a job, unfortunately.

That means it doesn't matter whether or not you have a logo. People know your store is there when they enter the library. Nobody is going to stop at a library just for a coffee and walk out.

The honest opinions are from real, independent people with whom I have no prior relationship. Plus, my dad admits he is not a fan of our coffee.

Who? Your customers? No customer is going to tell you that your coffee isn't that good in front of your face. I myself have been to restaurants where I didn't like the food but told them it was ok or good when the waiter came by and asked.

Starbucks is not the competition. We are in two VERY different segments. Trying to compare us to Starbucks is like comparing McDonalds to a high-end burger restaurant. Both places serve burgers, but the customers are different.

Starbucks is not competition? Wtf? What planet are you on? Starbucks is "high end" in most people's minds. Their coffee is premium to McDonald's or other fast foods. The customers are absolutely the same.

That's not to say that I do not study Starbucks' success. In fact, I follow in a lot of their footsteps, but in the end I'm going after a different type of customer.

You do not follow in their footsteps. Not even close. They listen to their customers. You don't. In fact one time they moved to pre-made fraps from a machine and they discontinued it when customers didn't like it. They then carried out a huge ad campaign inside the store advertising that their fraps are back to being made by the barista mixing ingredients.

My customers know coffee and some choose us because we keep our offerings traditional. However, we get requests for Frappuccinos about once every two weeks. If there is a dramatic increase in requests, then yes, I will work something up that would be similar to a Frappuccino.

A coffee shop's success is not dependent on serving Frappuccinos, though.

Are you f'ing kidding me? You even get requests for an item that you don't even have on the menu!!! That means a LOT more than one person every two weeks wants a frap. You don't see traditional coffee shops because they've all gone bankrupt.

The library as a whole is very modern and upscale looking. It's not a cheap or tacky looking place.

I don't care about the library I asked about your store. What kind of chairs do you have? Are they the cheap crap? How do the floors, menu board, and counter look in your store? If Starbucks has better decor and they are like McDonald's then what does that make you? How much rent do you pay a month?

My advice is the same. Just shut down. Your coffee shop is a total failure and lost money because your bank account is empty and your credit cards are maxed out. It's like paying McDonald's to go work for them. If you open the same exact coffee shop in another location then you'll just go out of business again.

 

[Ryan Wolf]

That means it doesn't matter whether or not you have a logo. People know your store is there when they enter the library. Nobody is going to stop at a library just for a coffee and walk out.



Who? Your customers? No customer is going to tell you that your coffee isn't that good in front of your face. I myself have been to restaurants where I didn't like the food but told them it was ok or good when the waiter came by and asked.



Starbucks is not competition? Wtf? What planet are you on? Starbucks is "high end" in most people's minds. Their coffee is premium to McDonald's or other fast foods. The customers are absolutely the same.



You do not follow in their footsteps. Not even close. They listen to their customers. You don't. In fact one time they moved to pre-made fraps from a machine and they discontinued it when customers didn't like it. They then carried out a huge ad campaign inside the store advertising that their fraps are back to being made by the barista mixing ingredients.




Are you f'ing kidding me? You even get requests for an item that you don't even have on the menu!!! That means a LOT more than one person every two weeks wants a frap. You don't see traditional coffee shops because they've all gone bankrupt.



I don't care about the library I asked about your store. What kind of chairs do you have? Are they the cheap crap? How do the floors, menu board, and counter look in your store? If Starbucks has better decor and they are like McDonald's then what does that make you? How much rent do you pay a month?

My advice is the same. Just shut down. Your coffee shop is a total failure and lost money because your bank account is empty and your credit cards are maxed out. It's like paying McDonald's to go work for them. If you open the same exact coffee shop in another location then you'll just go out of business again.

Have a great night!

 

[MidwestLandlord]

I've got a lot of experience in restaurant work, and used to own a cafe with a business partner of mine. My take on this:

You tied your coffee shop to a dying industry. Brick and mortar books are mostly dead (with exceptions)

What value does your coffee shop provide?

Seems to me, your value is:

1. "Real" coffee for the "coffee connoisseur"
2. A QUICK caffeine fix
3. A QUICK snack
4. A place to socialize (or waste time on the internet)

How does your shop provide that value?

1. "Real" coffee for the "coffee connoisseur"
You've said your coffee is high quality. But how does someone that wants that product, that value, know you are there? Selling a high-end coffee product really comes down to the right location, on the right street, in the right town, in the right state. For instance, I'm in the upper midwest, which would be a terrible place to try something like this. Is a library the right place?

2. A QUICK caffeine fix
This should really be your bread and butter. But you've said yourself that the traffic is on the other side of the street? How does a slowlaner or sidewalker make the decision to buy coffee? They hit the snooze button one too many times, are running late for work, and still need their caffeine fix...but they need it QUICKLY. If I'm a slowlaner, will I park my car, get out, and go inside a library for your coffee? Or will I hit the Starbucks or McDonald's drive-thru?

3. A QUICK snack.
See the same points in #2

4. A place to socialize
What time does the library close? A lot of this "sitting at a coffee shop and socializing" happens after work hours, with the exception of students. Will I go to a library to stare at my phone and pretend to socialize, or will I go somewhere else? Would I rather go to the library, where I'm expected to be quiet and watch the homeless people, or will I sit in a Starbucks where it is loud and I can watch pretty girls?

Do you see where I am going with this?

The library customers, and your customers, are the SAME people. You can't provide value to your target customers if you can't reach them.

So either the business has to change to match the customers you do have (the library patrons) or you have to find a way to get your target customers to come to you. Being in the library, I don't think you have many options for the latter, and it would be very difficult in my estimation to adjust this type of business for the former.

Margins and everything else you mentioned don't matter AT ALL if you can't reach your customers.

Most retail comes down to either "high volume and low margin" or "low volume and high margin"

A coffee shop really is a high volume and low margin business, and you just don't have the volume.

I would stop wasting time and move on.

Hope I helped.

 

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[Scot]

@Ryan Wolf as said before,you're doing better than 95% of businesses out there. I agree, I think the library is killing your business. If you can implement all you've learned from business and here, but in a better location, you could see a big improvement.

And don't give much thought to guys like @fhs8. He's concerned about logos and Frappucinos, which are not what's important. I'm pretty sure he doesn't own a successful chain of coffee shops.

 

[Ricardo's]

That means it doesn't matter whether or not you have a logo. People know your store is there when they enter the library. Nobody is going to stop at a library just for a coffee and walk out.



Who? Your customers? No customer is going to tell you that your coffee isn't that good in front of your face. I myself have been to restaurants where I didn't like the food but told them it was ok or good when the waiter came by and asked.



Starbucks is not competition? Wtf? What planet are you on? Starbucks is "high end" in most people's minds. Their coffee is premium to McDonald's or other fast foods. The customers are absolutely the same.



You do not follow in their footsteps. Not even close. They listen to their customers. You don't. In fact one time they moved to pre-made fraps from a machine and they discontinued it when customers didn't like it. They then carried out a huge ad campaign inside the store advertising that their fraps are back to being made by the barista mixing ingredients.




Are you f'ing kidding me? You even get requests for an item that you don't even have on the menu!!! That means a LOT more than one person every two weeks wants a frap. You don't see traditional coffee shops because they've all gone bankrupt.



I don't care about the library I asked about your store. What kind of chairs do you have? Are they the cheap crap? How do the floors, menu board, and counter look in your store? If Starbucks has better decor and they are like McDonald's then what does that make you? How much rent do you pay a month?

My advice is the same. Just shut down. Your coffee shop is a total failure and lost money because your bank account is empty and your credit cards are maxed out. It's like paying McDonald's to go work for them. If you open the same exact coffee shop in another location then you'll just go out of business again.

There's a line between constructive criticism and talking shit. Don't be a dick.

 

[Ryan Wolf]

@MidwestLandlord

First off, thank you.

I do agree that brick and mortar book stores and libraries are a dying industry. When I got the opportunity to open in the library, I took it quickly knowing that there is a coffee shop in a different library that is doing exceptionally well. Granted, that library is the main branch and is thus much more busy. I based a lot of my projections from their success, while not taking into account being in a smaller library, etc... I'm 100% responsible for not doing the proper due diligence on this library/location.

1. I'm in a hipster neighborhood, but that only provides is a small number of discerning coffee enthusiasts near me. Regardless of having news stories and other media recognitions about my shop, people are still just trickling in via recommendations from their friends. All in all, no, the library/neighborhood is not the right place.

2-3. You're correct - most people are in a hurry and would rather order from the convenience of their car, or go into a place that they know offers what they're seeking.

4. We (library and coffee shop) are open until 9:00pm. Probably not late enough. Your point is valid, though. Most people want to go to a place where socializing isn't frowned upon and where there is a steady rotation of people coming in and out (i.e. cute girls/guys).

I am going to stay open until at least February (I have thoroughly thought this out and it honestly doesn't affect me any differently between trying to close shop now or trying to work it out until February). I'm implementing new strategies of how to get to my target customers to my shop. If it doesn't significantly improve, I will be moving on to the next venture with some great new knowledge of what not to do.


@Scot

I appreciate it. I'm not sure what my next move(s) are yet, but I know so much more now then I did when I started!

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

@MidwestLandlord

First off, thank you.

I do agree that brick and mortar book stores and libraries are a dying industry. When I got the opportunity to open in the library, I took it quickly knowing that there is a coffee shop in a different library that is doing exceptionally well. Granted, that library is the main branch and is thus much more busy. I based a lot of my projections from their success, while not taking into account being in a smaller library, etc... I'm 100% responsible for not doing the proper due diligence on this library/location.

No problem man.

In this paragraph you exactly identified your shop's issue.

Here's something I learned about the food service business the hard way:

There are 2 types of food service.

#1. A "destination" location.
This is a location that people will go out of their way to get to. Think famous restaurants, or "White Castle" back when they were really popular, or Starbucks when they first started. It's a destination in itself. The coffee shop in the main library is a "destination" type food service, because the library itself is a destination.

#2. A "convenience" location.
Think McDonald's. Think Starbucks now (Starbucks on every corner shows their successful shift from a "destination" to "convenience") These are the easy places to go. The one's on morning commute routes, etc.

Olive Garden is a destination type place. So is a crappy pizza joint in a mall (because the mall is a destination)

Taco Bell is a convenience type place. IHOP is a convenience place (on major roads and by hotels)

Some places blur the line between the 2 types, but I'm sure you get my point.

You own a shaved ice place, no? Why does that business work and the coffee shop did not?

I would bet it's because you KNOW which type it is, and you operate it accordingly...even if just by accident. (not discounting your success, just that most people don't understand what I said in this post unless they've worked for a major chain. Major chains EXCEL at this line of thinking. I used to partly own both a Nestle Tollhouse Cafe [convenience type food], and a Sonic Drive-In [destination type food])

 

[fhs8]

And don't give much thought to guys like @fhs8. He's concerned about logos and Frappucinos, which are not what's important. I'm pretty sure he doesn't own a successful chain of coffee shops.

All the big successful coffee shops have fraps so why would it be a bad idea to at least try it? Nobody here owns a successful chain of coffee shops so that means no opinion should be considered?

https://news.starbucks.com/news/frappuccino-turns-20
They had just 300 stores before it was launched. Now they have over 24,000. When it was first launched it greatly exceeded sales expectations.


Fiscal Year Ended
Oct 2, 2016

Beverages 74%
Food 19%
Packaged and single-serve coffees and teas 3%
Other(1) 4%
Total 100%

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/829224/000082922412000007/sbux-9302012x10k.htm (pg 5)

Surprisingly 19% of sales come from food items. If I was running a coffee shop I'd track exactly how much sales of each item I had and check margins/pricing.

@Ryan Wolf as said before,you're doing better than 95% of businesses out there. I agree, I think the library is killing your business. If you can implement all you've learned from business and here, but in a better location, you could see a big improvement.

Starbucks runs shops in lots of Barnes & Nobles and they are doing just fine. How come the library is busy enough that it can pay for it's own rent? There has to be foot traffic. I'd expect sames store sales to decline in those stores YoY however it really comes down to the dollar amount of expected sales and rent in the location. If rent is $500/mo and expected sales is $15,000/mo then that's a good location even if it's in a library. So you can't just make blanket statements that the library is killing your business. If this coffee shop were to move to a higher rent place it will definitely fail if the library rent was fair market value. I'm assuming that the library is busy enough that it can pay rent and that it's not a publicly funded library.

The current coffee shop is struggling to stay alive with just the owner working and not taking a salary. What would happen when the owner hires employees at another location? Employee expenses are even higher than rent. Things have to change if a new coffee shop were to open otherwise the same result is expected.

What I would do is check how far away other coffee shops are, location, bargain on rent, get new furniture, paint, nice sign/logo/menuboard, new flooring, fix ceiling if it's in bad condition, have a good layout in the store, test new menu items, etc... You don't just open a coffee shop and slap a bunch of cheap furniture inside of it.

 

[Ryan Wolf]

You own a shaved ice place, no? Why does that business work and the coffee shop did not?
)

Yes. That is a definite destination. I didn't really understand what that meant going into the business, but I knew that people would hang out there, even if they weren't buying. It's grown into THE place to hang around at in the neighborhood, for all ages.

@fhs8

A lot of Starbucks' success in libraries comes from having so many stores already; they're not just a little boutique specialty shop. Plus, libraries and book stores like Barnes & Nobles are completely different in terms of environment. One is a public place and one is a private store. I do think that a Starbucks would do well if they were in my spot, though. As if having a giant brand with a cult following weren't enough, having an app with millions of active users that shows where the nearest store is would help any business (or single store) be successful.

The following aren't meant to be bullshit excuses, but I'm not even allowed to have blenders in the library because of how loud they are. Sure there are other options like a granita machine, but then there's the issue of not enough space. I have about 115 sqft total. If you know how much equipment is needed just for the basic offerings and some pastries, you'll understand how small my space is. Lately I've had to store the extra cups in my car.

And to address your concerns about "cheap furniture"... The bar stools are $1,009 each. I have 9 total ( http://www.dwr.com/dining-chairs-and-stools/eames-molded-wood-barstool,-dwhbx/1979.html?lang=en_US ). The bar tables are $1,895 each ( http://www.dwr.com/dining-tables/br...table/474.html?lang=en_US#lang=en_US&start=17 ) I have 3. I don't know how much the booths cost, but they're made by the same company. The library paid for all of this because they didn't want a cheap looking coffee shop/library. But hey, if you consider that cheap, good for you!

 

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[GeoffP]

A lot of Starbucks' success in libraries comes from having so many stores already; they're not just a little boutique specialty shop. Plus, libraries and book stores like Barnes & Nobles are completely different in terms of environment. One is a public place and one is a private store. I do think that a Starbucks would do well if they were in my spot, though. As if having a giant brand with a cult following weren't enough, having an app with millions of active users that shows where the nearest store is would help any business (or single store) be successful.

Also keep in mind that the B&N and a lot of the co-located "Starbucks" are really licenses or franchises run by B&N or the co-location, which is basically free money for Starbucks since they get the dough but don't have the liability associated with the location.

Don't be afraid to kill this venture if needed and move on. Like Edison, you've learned X ways not to do something, which is valuable experience.

Is it possible to restructure the library branch to just provide basic service and then find a new location for the upscale coffee shop you want?

 

[Ryan Wolf]

Also keep in mind that the B&N and a lot of the co-located "Starbucks" are really licenses or franchises run by B&N or the co-location, which is basically free money for Starbucks since they get the dough but don't have the liability associated with the location.

Very true.

Is it possible to restructure the library branch to just provide basic service and then find a new location for the upscale coffee shop you want?

I've thought about doing this. Essentially turning the space into more of a snack bar and then relocating the coffee. I don't know for sure, but I do not think that the library would be okay with this, as they did design the space specifically for a coffee shop. They've got a plethora of choices of coffee shops or people who would try their hand at one, so they'll always be able to get their wish, no matter how many have gone out of business prior.

 

[GeoffP]

I've thought about doing this. Essentially turning the space into more of a snack bar and then relocating the coffee. I don't know for sure, but I do not think that the library would be okay with this, as they did design the space specifically for a coffee shop. They've got a plethora of choices of coffee shops or people who would try their hand at one, so they'll always be able to get their wish, no matter how many have gone out of business prior.

I'm not saying get rid of the coffee shop, just restructure and scale it back so it's basically a coffee cart and you're competing on convenience. It's great that you've got the best coffee around, but I'm not sure it makes sense for that location.

 

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[fhs8]

A lot of Starbucks' success in libraries comes from having so many stores already; they're not just a little boutique specialty shop. Plus, libraries and book stores like Barnes & Nobles are completely different in terms of environment. One is a public place and one is a private store. I do think that a Starbucks would do well if they were in my spot, though. As if having a giant brand with a cult following weren't enough, having an app with millions of active users that shows where the nearest store is would help any business (or single store) be successful.

Ok so you're in a public library? That changes everything. It means that the publicly funded library might not be busy enough because it doesn't have to make enough to pay overhead such as rent. A private bookstore that isn't busy enough would go out of business. How much SQFT is the library? Is it around the same size of Barnes and Noble? Are there homeless that enter the library?

Another thing I must add is that if there was a coffee shop there before you why do you think they left?

The following aren't meant to be bullshit excuses, but I'm not even allowed to have blenders in the library because of how loud they are. Sure there are other options like a granita machine, but then there's the issue of not enough space. I have about 115 sqft total. If you know how much equipment is needed just for the basic offerings and some pastries, you'll understand how small my space is. Lately I've had to store the extra cups in my car.

Does municipal code or any signed contracts prevent you from putting in a blender? ...Or is it the angry strict librarian at the counter telling you this? Is there a decibel limit and for how long? How come Barnes & Noble allows blenders?

And to address your concerns about "cheap furniture"... The bar stools are $1,009 each. I have 9 total ( http://www.dwr.com/dining-chairs-and-stools/eames-molded-wood-barstool,-dwhbx/1979.html?lang=en_US ). The bar tables are $1,895 each ( http://www.dwr.com/dining-tables/br...table/474.html?lang=en_US#lang=en_US&start=17 ) I have 3. I don't know how much the booths cost, but they're made by the same company. The library paid for all of this because they didn't want a cheap looking coffee shop/library. But hey, if you consider that cheap, good for you!

That furniture looks good. What about the menu board, flooring, ceiling, walls, display, color scheme, etc...? Do the napkins and cups have your logo on it? What are the cups made out of?

Basically every Starbucks or corporate owned fast food keeps their whole store/furniture up to date since the profit increase is more than enough to pay for a remodel. McDonald's done tests which showed significant same store sale increase. A 700k remodel is average.

http://www.businessinsider.com/remodeled-mcdonalds-photos-2011-5

Average sales lift for a reimage is 6%-7% above the market in the first year. Sales continue to build above the market into the second and third years. Historically, the sales lift for a rebuild is about 15%.

I wouldn't open a coffee store unless you could actually compete with the big guys. A store has to look remodeled or it will already be at a big disadvantage in revenue. This takes a lot of money. If you don't have the money or the borrowing cost is too high then you can't do it.

 

[Scot]

Ok so you're in a public library? That changes everything.

 

[Ricoboxing]

I think the clientele in a public library is different than a book store. People go to a library so that they don't have to spend money. People that go to a book store spend money.

I learned a similar lesson the hard way too.

 

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[fhs8]

I think the clientele in a public library is different than a book store. People go to a library so that they don't have to spend money. People that go to a book store spend money.

I learned a similar lesson the hard way too.

Wow that's a really good point. Libraries are filled with homeless and very cheap people. I think what happened is that the OP got sucked in with really low startup costs from free equipment/furniture courtesy from the library. With the low amount of foot traffic and bad clientele OP didn't stand a chance.

 

[Ryan Wolf]

How much SQFT is the library? Is it around the same size of Barnes and Noble? Are there homeless that enter the library?

Another thing I must add is that if there was a coffee shop there before you why do you think they left?

The library is a decent size, but not huge...my guess would be about 15k sqft total between the two levels. Probably similar to most B&Ns. The homeless are dealt with if they come in and most know by now that they're really not welcome here, even though it is public. The city is very strict about keeping this library family-friendly, sanitary and safe. That said, the lowest of low class are in here at every open hour using the free computers, most of the time for unproductive time-killers such as gaming and YouTube.

No previous coffee shop here--mine is the first and only since the library opened. I just don't see it being difficult to fill this space with how cheap the lease is and what is provided in terms of furniture.

Does municipal code or any signed contracts prevent you from putting in a blender? ...Or is it the angry strict librarian at the counter telling you this? Is there a decibel limit and for how long? How come Barnes & Noble allows blenders?

There is no decibel level, but it's written in the lease that loud machines are prohibited. I need to revisit it to see the exact wording and see if there are loopholes.

That furniture looks good. What about the menu board, flooring, ceiling, walls, display, color scheme, etc...? Do the napkins and cups have your logo on it? What are the cups made out of?

The menu has changed since this picture was taken. The reddish blur is me covering up the name of the shop.

White paper cups with lids only (not allowed to have open drinks in the library, so mugs and demitasses are out of the picture). Cups have the logo on them. Napkins change with the season and have no logo.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

That said, the lowest of low class are in here at every open hour using the free computers, most of the time for unproductive time-killers such as gaming and YouTube.

...

White paper cups with lids only (not allowed to have open drinks in the library, so mugs and demitasses are out of the picture). Cups have the logo on them. Napkins change with the season and have no logo.

Nice looking place.

I said it before though, none of that stuff matters; cups, lids, logos, margins, seasonal napkins, loud machines, fraps, et al...if you can't get your product in front of the people who actually need it.

Take that drive and determination you have and use it to put a product in front of people where you can actually be rewarded for your time and hard work.

 

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[ChickenHawk]

The shop is really beautiful. Some random thoughts about what's been said so far...

IMO, unless you're looking to build a brand and/or expand, I doubt custom-printed cups or napkins would help. Probably, it would only increase your expenses and time-investment with very little, if any, payoff.

At all the suggestions of blenders, etc., I couldn't help but think, "Doubtful they'd allow such a noisy appliance in a library." The commercial smoothie-blenders DO generally come with a noise-dampening lid, but they're still loud, and quite expensive. Plus, you'd need an ice-machine or a freezer to store ice. (Not sure if you have one already, but I figured I'd mention that, for what it's worth.) In short, to sell smoothies or blended coffee ice-drinks, you'd need to spend another chunk of money. A commercial smoothie blender, one with a noise-damping lid and commercial motor, is around $1,000, and often more. It doesn't sound like you're in a position to throw more money at this shop, at least not yet. Sure, you could buy a cheaper blender, but then you're just buying different problems -- noise issues, issues with quality-control, etc.

I can't recall if you indicated where your shop is located, but from experience, I can say firsthand that if you live in a cold climate, those ice-drinks tend to be somewhat seasonal, with very few people wanting them in the winter months (even if the library itself is nice and toasty.)

Looking at all the information here, it appears that the primary problem is that this has become a job in disguise, and not worth your time and trouble. It sounds like your mom wants the job and enjoys it. Any chance of selling this to her? It sounds like you have big dreams and an eye toward passive income, while your mom has a real attachment to the shop, so maybe that's a potential solution?

 

[ChickenHawk]

Oh hey, one additional thought... When we owned our coffee-shop, one really chilly day, I made up a huge bunch of mochas, put them in little sample cups (with lids), and delivered the free samples to the employees of nearby businesses, along with some coupons (like for half-off mochas). Some of the people didn't know our shop existed, while others knew we were there, but weren't quite sure what we had. We picked up a few regular customers that way.

 

[Ryan Wolf]

Nice looking place.

I said it before though, none of that stuff matters; cups, lids, logos, margins, seasonal napkins, loud machines, fraps, et al...if you can't get your product in front of the people who actually need it.

Take that drive and determination you have and use it to put a product in front of people where you can actually be rewarded for your time and hard work.

Thank you.

I definitely agree, though. I need customers more than I need frivolous items.

I'm hiring someone to work here for three days per week finally, so I've got more time to give the shop it's best chance at surviving, and pursue my next venture (which will be a scalable product or service).

The shop is really beautiful.

Thank you.

Some random thoughts about what's been said so far...

IMO, unless you're looking to build a brand and/or expand, I doubt custom-printed cups or napkins would help. Probably, it would only increase your expenses and time-investment with very little, if any, payoff.

At all the suggestions of blenders, etc., I couldn't help but think, "Doubtful they'd allow such a noisy appliance in a library." The commercial smoothie-blenders DO generally come with a noise-dampening lid, but they're still loud, and quite expensive. Plus, you'd need an ice-machine or a freezer to store ice. (Not sure if you have one already, but I figured I'd mention that, for what it's worth.) In short, to sell smoothies or blended coffee ice-drinks, you'd need to spend another chunk of money. A commercial smoothie blender, one with a noise-damping lid and commercial motor, is around $1,000, and often more. It doesn't sound like you're in a position to throw more money at this shop, at least not yet. Sure, you could buy a cheaper blender, but then you're just buying different problems -- noise issues, issues with quality-control, etc.

I can't recall if you indicated where your shop is located, but from experience, I can say firsthand that if you live in a cold climate, those ice-drinks tend to be somewhat seasonal, with very few people wanting them in the winter months (even if the library itself is nice and toasty.)

Looking at all the information here, it appears that the primary problem is that this has become a job in disguise, and not worth your time and trouble. It sounds like your mom wants the job and enjoys it. Any chance of selling this to her? It sounds like you have big dreams and an eye toward passive income, while your mom has a real attachment to the shop, so maybe that's a potential solution?

Without breaking this down into individual quotes, I'll address it all in the order it was written.

The logo on the cups is actually just a stamp ($30 for the custom stamp). We stamp all of the cups ourselves. It actually looks awesome and has a very appropriate feel and look for a coffee shop.

Yes, there are feasible options, but I am limited in space and by how much it costs (would need a large ice maker/bin & blenders). Especially as it is a fairly seasonal drink and I am in a cold area, I wouldn't get the ROI quick enough to really help me out, regardless of how nice the equipment is.

Like I just mentioned to @MidwestLandlord I am finally hiring a person to take a few of my shifts. Finally! But yeah, I'm working on doing some sort of a deal with my mom...

 

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[Ryan Wolf]

Oh hey, one additional thought... When we owned our coffee-shop, one really chilly day, I made up a huge bunch of mochas, put them in little sample cups (with lids), and delivered the free samples to the employees of nearby businesses, along with some coupons (like for half-off mochas). Some of the people didn't know our shop existed, while others knew we were there, but weren't quite sure what we had. We picked up a few regular customers that way.

Love it!

 

[fhs8]

Wow the coffee shop looks nice. In that case I would try to improve it as much as possible to see if it can come close to sustaining an employee since it costs a lot of money to make a coffee shop nice so you probably won't get another opportunity for a while and you'd have to risk a lot more money.

Do sales figures show improvement month over month since it's a new library? There's also quiet blenders that can be bought and cheap ice dispensers such as this one http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insigni...maker-stainless-steel/5466601.p?skuId=5466601. You can also serve cold drinks such as iced coffee and iced tea as well not just blended fraps. If it turns out the ice dispenser was a good idea then I would spend more on a bigger one if needed.

Try adding fruit like bananas, water bottles, etc...

 

[ChickenHawk]

The logo on the cups is actually just a stamp ($30 for the custom stamp). We stamp all of the cups ourselves. It actually looks awesome and has a very appropriate feel and look for a coffee shop.

Oh wow, that's actually pretty cool! If my mom was still doing coffee, I'd probably buy her one of these for Christmas. That sounds like a perfect solution for the customization thing!

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

How much does your mom make managing the place? If you take her wages out, does it profit?

The point I'm getting at is, can you sell it and carry the financing? (not to your mom)

Whoever buys it will have bought themselves a full time job, but that's not really your problem.

They fail, you take it back and sell it again.

 

[Ryan Wolf]

Wow the coffee shop looks nice. In that case I would try to improve it as much as possible to see if it can come close to sustaining an employee since it costs a lot of money to make a coffee shop nice so you probably won't get another opportunity for a while and you'd have to risk a lot more money.

Do sales figures show improvement month over month since it's a new library? There's also quiet blenders that can be bought and cheap ice dispensers such as this one http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insigni...maker-stainless-steel/5466601.p?skuId=5466601. You can also serve cold drinks such as iced coffee and iced tea as well not just blended fraps. If it turns out the ice dispenser was a good idea then I would spend more on a bigger one if needed.

Try adding fruit like bananas, water bottles, etc...

I am going to go all in for the next month to get it to a higher level. Right now, it can sustain one employee but off current numbers, that means I'm just breaking even. Right now, I'll take breaking even and being free (for 4 days/week) over having to work everyday for a few dollars.

We can and do ice anything upon request, as I do have a very small, non-commercial grade ice maker. Iced drinks aren't too popular, but when we run out of ice we have to close up while we run down the street to a convenience store and grab a bag of ice. That wouldn't work well if we were moving a larger amount of ice. My ice bin is tiny, so multiple trips would result in closing the shop temporarily multiple times throughout the day.

We do already sell bottled water and bananas.

How much does your mom make managing the place? If you take her wages out, does it profit?

The point I'm getting at is, can you sell it and carry the financing? (not to your mom)

Whoever buys it will have bought themselves a full time job, but that's not really your problem.

They fail, you take it back and sell it again.

She's lurking around $10/hour. She is worth so much more than that, but she doesn't care that I can't pay more than that because she loves what she does and wants the shop to succeed. I could sell and do a carry back type deal. I actually really like the idea that you just laid out, but... This is where it's a shitty idea to hire family. What would normally be so easy to execute, isn't easy in this situation.