Lex DeVille's - I Deleted My Upwork Account...

[AllenCrawley]

PS My question - you obviously have proven that without being an expert on UpWork, you can be successful. Could you share what's in it for you? If not that's fine. I would like to know what motivates you now.

@SinisterLex and @Andy Black are both true examples of "Givers" as detailed in the book, "Give and Take" by Adam M. Grant. The book explores case studies and examples of people who are incredibly giving with their time, expertise and ideas, and how they are more likely to achieve a greater level of success than "takers". Great book and I highly recommend it. (PS. It's also the only book that Marcus Lemonis ever recommends.)

 

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[Lex DeVille]

@SinisterLex and @Andy Black are both true examples of "Givers" as detailed in the book, "Give and Take" by Adam M. Grant. The book explores case studies and examples of people who are incredibly giving with their time, expertise and ideas, and how they are more likely to achieve a greater level of success than "takers". Great book and I highly recommend it. (PS. It's also the only book that Marcus Lemonis ever recommends.)

Uh, you forgot to mention AllenCrawley who keeps giving really cool book recommendations! >)

 

[Liana]

Thanks so much for this valuable thread, Lex! Your enthusiasm and dedication are so contagious. I've created a profile and have submitted some proposals but heard nothing back yet. I'll send a few more tomorrow. My main question is how to deal with 'imposter syndrome'? I just feel like a fraud advertising copywriting services when I've never done any copywriting before. I'm confident that I write well - I have a background in English teaching and translation and got good feedback when I applied for an in-house role a couple of years back, but my knowledge of the industry is limited. I downloaded some ebooks and am learning as I go, but how do I shake off the feeling that I'm bullshitting people?

 

[Lex DeVille]

Thanks so much for this valuable thread, Lex! Your enthusiasm and dedication are so contagious. I've created a profile and have submitted some proposals but heard nothing back yet. I'll send a few more tomorrow. My main question is how to deal with 'imposter syndrome'? I just feel like a fraud advertising copywriting services when I've never done any copywriting before. I'm confident that I write well - I have a background in English teaching and translation and got good feedback when I applied for an in-house role a couple of years back, but my knowledge of the industry is limited. I downloaded some ebooks and am learning as I go, but how do I shake off the feeling that I'm bullshitting people?

Let me ask you this...how do you know you'll "send a few more tomorrow" ?

The only way you can possibly know that is if you plan to send proposals no matter what jobs you come across (or you know the future). The reason I bring this up is because you won't feel like a fraud if you only send proposals to clients you're 100% certain you can actually help.

If you're not confident in your copywriting skills, then maybe that means starting with blog posts until a later time when you do feel confident. And that might mean not sending a few more proposals tomorrow unless you know for sure you can deliver. If you're confident you write well, then your blog articles will be valuable.

A lot of people around here mistake the value of copywriting for the value of mindset. Even something as simple as blog posts can be highly valuable and can even generate full-time income if you approach it from a business perspective.

So you may not need to do copywriting at all unless you just want to. And if you do decide to continue with copywriting, consider this...how can you gain skill at copywriting unless you write copy???

I'm confident I could use Upwork to create full-time income as a blog writer. I could also create full-time income as a social media poster or sales caller or virtual assistant. Because it doesn't have anything to do with the skill I offer, but the mindset driving my approach.

For me, skill is an afterthought.
Be competent with a skill. Be awesome in the mind.

 

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[Liana]

Let me ask you this...how do you know you'll "send a few more tomorrow" ?

The only way you can possibly know that is if you plan to send proposals no matter what jobs you come across (or you know the future). The reason I bring this up is because you won't feel like a fraud if you only send proposals to clients you're 100% certain you can actually help.

You know, I did originally write 'if I see any appropriate job ads' and then I deleted it, but what's what I meant. I know there is no point in sending dozens of proposals out just for the sake of it - I want to choose clients I can help and spend time crafting a great proposal.

If you're not confident in your copywriting skills, then maybe that means starting with blog posts until a later time when you do feel confident. And that might mean not sending a few more proposals tomorrow unless you know for sure you can deliver. If you're confident you write well, then your blog articles will be valuable.

That's true. I might start with blog posts for now. I have been told that I write well, but it's always been a different kind of writing - academic papers, translations, reports, etc. I don't see any reason why those skills wouldn't transfer over to copywriting if I learned more about the industry, but my confidence is not great right now.

A lot of people around here mistake the value of copywriting for the value of mindset. Even something as simple as blog posts can be highly valuable and can even generate full-time income if you approach it from a business perspective.

So you may not need to do copywriting at all unless you just want to. And if you do decide to continue with copywriting, consider this...how can you gain skill at copywriting unless you write copy???

I'm confident I could use Upwork to create full-time income as a blog writer. I could also create full-time income as a social media poster or sales caller or virtual assistant. Because it doesn't have anything to do with the skill I offer, but the mindset driving my approach.

For me, skill is an afterthought.
Be competent with a skill. Be awesome in the mind.

That's true. I have often been told that I don't 'sell myself' very well and underestimate my abilities. I'm trying to get over that. Instead of thinking 'why would they hire me for that?', thinking 'why WOULDN'T they hire me for that?' Hopefully this week will result in some success.

 

[Everyman]

Thanks for the comments. Your question is a double-edged sword and by that I mean there's more than one answer.

To be totally open, eventually (when I get around to it) I'll sell a course on Freelancing to my tribe. It's gonna be a while tho, cuz my copywriting course already cost nearly 4 months and was only supposed to take 1. Building something of value takes time.

To that end, starting over with freelance was both an opportunity to prove naysayers wrong, and to generate new eyes, new clients, and potentially new opportunities all of which it has accomplished. It's kind of funny because already several others have attempted to follow suit or at least mentioned it. Funny how that works...

Another reason is simply to stay relevant. How can I teach a course on how to go toe to toe with freelance or copywriting if I'm not in the trenches? If I'm not in the game, I can't see things from the ground level through the eyes of others who might be brand new to this. That's important to me because I want to be able to relate to those who come to me for help.

Lastly, it's an easy way for me to create value and help other people. It's not just forum members watching my videos or following this progress. Others are coming through channels like YouTube and discovering me for the first time. A guy from Russia reached out on Facebook after watching my videos to say thanks, and that's really important because it's a clear marker of how far my value extends. Now it's not just the Fastlane forum. It's a wider global scale of impact.

Bottom line...

I'm motivated by helping people and making money in exchange - staying relevant, pushing myself, and breaking my own boundaries. I'm also motivated when people follow me because they want to, because it adds something useful to their lives instead of just more noise.

WOW!

This is an answer I haven't been expecting...

No wonder you are successful if you treat your customers with "at least" this level of attention. I will be digesting for some time...

I am sending you some forum money as I am writing this.

PS Another side-effect/benefit. My girlfriend started talking about UpWork under my influence (I told her it is really easy to find a job with just a little effort and correct attitude/approach) - I will definitely point her here.

Love this whole reply.

That last paragraph is exactly how I feel. I'm compelled to help my past self - the people struggling at the coal-face with things I've already overcome. It's even more fulfilling when they feel the help is worth more than some money in their pocket and you've created a fair value exchange.

It's easier to churn out content people just "like". Much harder to create content people will pay for, AND take action on to get the proper value.



I really like that you're in the trenches engaged in hand-to-hand combat.

Some people say I should step away from the coal-face, but I decided that's where a lot of my insights come from so it's part of my high-ground and unfair advantage.

If I move away from the coal-face then I'll start to lose my edge.



A good way to churn out a constant stream of good quality content is to document how you help people in your day-to-day.

Answering questions is a great way.

Realise that the producers who are dropping content into this forum, and running AMAs are getting as much value out of it as the people consuming. They are finding out what resonates, and how best to help you.

Sure, a bit of spit and polish to tidy up the presentation can help when venturing outside the forum with that content, but if you're creating content to help a handful of people then that can usually help thousands.

Lex is going to affect thousands, and he's only going to get better the more he keeps producing.

Pay close attention and you'll see Lex reinventing his channels as he gets more feedback and dials it in. It's all part of the process and we should realise how privileged we are to watch it unfold.


TL;DR?

People listen to experts, they follow leaders.

Thanks Andy - I have done some "amateur mentoring" in other areas and feel exactly the same. For me - it is priceless when people come for advice and it greatly and positively influences their lives. Even for free. Especially for free (because people tend not to respect freebies)...

@SinisterLex and @Andy Black are both true examples of "Givers" as detailed in the book, "Give and Take" by Adam M. Grant. The book explores case studies and examples of people who are incredibly giving with their time, expertise and ideas, and how they are more likely to achieve a greater level of success than "takers". Great book and I highly recommend it. (PS. It's also the only book that Marcus Lemonis ever recommends.)

Thanks Allen - duly noted and will be eaten. Going to the popular online book store now.

 

[Valsore]

Thanks for this thread Would you go as far as giving a free sample in the actual proposal?

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Thanks for this thread Would you go as far as giving a free sample in the actual proposal?

Depends. Did they ask for one? There's plenty of samples of my writing in my profile, and the profile shows up as part of the proposal, so all they gotta do for a sample is scroll down.

But if they ask for some kind of sample, then yeah, I'd do a sample, but only if I really think the gig is worth it. For instance the other day I wrote a 3 paragraph story because I thought a gig might be worth it. I got the interview and even got the offer, but ended up declining because I didn't like what the client was working on.

If they ask for a sample and you're willing to do it, then it's usually pretty easy to get the gig because most freelancers aren't willing to write a sample out of fear they'll waste their time. It's funny because those are some of the easiest gigs to get since there's so few people bidding.

 

[Valsore]

Depends. Did they ask for one? There's plenty of samples of my writing in my profile, and the profile shows up as part of the proposal, so all they gotta do for a sample is scroll down.

But if they ask for some kind of sample, then yeah, I'd do a sample, but only if I really think the gig is worth it. For instance the other day I wrote a 3 paragraph story because I thought a gig might be worth it. I got the interview and even got the offer, but ended up declining because I didn't like what the client was working on.

If they ask for a sample and you're willing to do it, then it's usually pretty easy to get the gig because most freelancers aren't willing to write a sample out of fear they'll waste their time. It's funny because those are some of the easiest gigs to get since there's so few people bidding.

Hmm interesting So by that reasoning if they don't ask for a sample and you supply one it's super effective. I guess you just have to weight up the opportunity cost of taking the time to create a sample, however as a total newbie it's definitely worth it.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hmm interesting So by that reasoning if they don't ask for a sample and you supply one it's super effective. I guess you just have to weight up the opportunity cost of taking the time to create a sample, however as a total newbie it's definitely worth it.

If they don't ask for a sample and you give them a sample, you're giving them something they didn't ask for.

I look at this like going out to eat and ordering a small [insert whatever] but the girl behind the counter gives me a free upgrade to super size because she's feeling generous. But what if there's a reason I didn't ask for super size? What if I'm on a diet? Now I'm annoyed and go out of my way to avoid her service in the future.

Value is delivering what the client wants. Not what you think they want.

 

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[Valsore]

If they don't ask for a sample and you give them a sample, you're giving them something they didn't ask for.

I look at this like going out to eat and ordering a small [insert whatever] but the girl behind the counter gives me a free upgrade to super size because she's feeling generous. But what if there's a reason I didn't ask for super size? What if I'm on a diet? Now I'm annoyed and go out of my way to avoid her service in the future.

Value is delivering what the client wants. Not what you think they want.

That's a new way to look at it. Thanks for the new perspective. I never would have imagined that giving a free sample could be detrimental. Nevertheless I will test it out and report my findings

 

[Drew D]

Thoughts on these udemy course?

Copywriting - Become a Freelance Copywriter, your own boss
Copywriting secrets - How to write copy that sells

 

[Lex DeVille]

Thoughts on these udemy course?

Copywriting - Become a Freelance Copywriter, your own boss
Copywriting secrets - How to write copy that sells

I dunno, uh...based on the titles, they both suck.

I'd look for a copywriting course by a real copywriter.

But if you ask me to recommend one, I just...can't.

 

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[Drew D]

I dunno, uh...based on the titles, they both suck.

I'd look for a copywriting course by a real copywriter.

But if you ask me to recommend one, I just...can't.

I'd like to learn but unsure where to start.

What would you consider a real copywriter? I'll check what other ones are out there.

 

[Jon L]

@SinisterLex and @Andy Black are both true examples of "Givers" as detailed in the book, "Give and Take" by Adam M. Grant. The book explores case studies and examples of people who are incredibly giving with their time, expertise and ideas, and how they are more likely to achieve a greater level of success than "takers". Great book and I highly recommend it. (PS. It's also the only book that Marcus Lemonis ever recommends.)

I just bought that book on Audible based on your recommendation. Thanks!

 

[Lex DeVille]

I'd like to learn but unsure where to start.

What would you consider a real copywriter? I'll check what other ones are out there.

I'd start with the free threads on this forum that cover copywriting.

Would also pick up a copy of the book Ca$hvertising.

If you have more questions, please post them in one of the copywriting threads or start a new copywriting thread.

This thread is about my freelance progress, and I'd rather it not turn into a full-blown copywriting discussion.

 

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[Drew D]

I'd start with the free threads on this forum that cover copywriting.

Would also pick up a copy of the book Ca$hvertising.

If you have more questions, please post them in one of the copywriting threads or start a new copywriting thread.

This thread is about my freelance progress, and I'd rather it not turn into a full-blown copywriting discussion.

Thanks. I'll pick up the book and check out your support threads for any questions. Just looked up the latest thread with your name in it, lol.

I'll also stay subbed to this thread, looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Too saturated...lol.

#nomoreexcuses

 

[Argue]

Too saturated...lol.

#nomoreexcuses

It's ironic that you have a courage the cowardly dog t-shirt on. Keep up the excellent work!

 

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[jpanarra]

Too saturated...lol.

#nomoreexcuses

I know the feeling, I'm a little stressed too...

"JUST A LITTLE.. "

Awesome video, keep it up love the stuff and learning a lot from you man. Appreciate it!

 

[startinup]

Too saturated...lol.

#nomoreexcuses

Amazing!

It has been inspiring to watch how you've adapted and changed your channel over the past couple months. You've adapted your videos and topics at every step of the way and the quality of your videos has gotten better and better.

You've still kept the natural, relaxed feeling, but are much more composed in front of the camera than you were at the beginning. It's really great to see a prime example of an entrepreneur here. Demonstrating what can be accomplished in a couple months by taking consistent action and adjusting along the way.

You're killing it and inspiring people every day. It's truly great to see!

I'm slowly moving up in the Upwork Arena and have learned so much from your threads and videos.

Thanks for providing SO MUCH value Lex!

P.S. If you are enjoying Lex's videos, take the 5 seconds to go to Youtube and give them a like.

 

[Argue]

P.S. If you are enjoying Lex's videos, take the 5 seconds to go to Youtube and give them a like.

Not only that, subscribe to his channel. Especially individuals interested in copy.

 

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[Drew D]

Too saturated...lol.

#nomoreexcuses

Not only that, subscribe to his channel. Especially individuals interested in copy.

Yeah I subbed his stuff is very informative. Great personality too... Unique.

 

[DesignerOne.]

Too saturated...lol.

#nomoreexcuses

Wait a minute...If Lex's doing such a good job with this, will someone come up here in the forum and say, "lex... since you showed these people "your secrets" (not really, you're just showing us how to refocus proposals, we still have to put in the work) you've made the upwork market over saturated!"

...or are they just being lazy F*cks?

love the video, keep it up.

 

[JordanK]

It's 2am here and I have just received an email from Upwork that I have gotten my first acceptance on a proposal after a week of nothing. It's not within the copywriting niche but a lot of the knowledge spread here transfers to other industries and also SinisterLex's videos on Upwork are enormously helpful. I have been a lurker on this thread since it was started having tried Upwork in the past. It's amazing how a change in mindset and approach this time around is yielding more results already. Transferring rep!

 

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[JustKris]

Hey man,

Don't mean to hijack your thread (at least, any more than it's already been hijacked).

If you're ever in LA, I owe you a beer. I'd dismissed sites like Upwork as low-rent in the past. After seeing your thread, I built a profile and put up some samples (for marketing consulting).

I got invited for a $300 gig and was about to turn it down, when I recalled that you would put quotes way above their asking amount. So I replied with a counter offer for over 3x the amount and got accepted. Plus, I get some really good case studies and testimonials for my business that I'm launching.

And this is with zero gigs worked on their site.

Thanks!

 

[Lex DeVille]

Damn, there's some kick-a$$ results happening in this thread by people who could have just sat around doing nothing!

You guys are awesome! Taking the reigns and forcing change one day at a time. Now just take bigger and bigger leaps!

Anyway, just dropping in to share a little win this morning. Nothing to do with gaining new clients...

Just this:


Not sure how it happened...but I got rising talent.

A couple things to note tho -- my profile is 100% complete. I have 4 jobs worked. $100+ earned (officially) and 5 stars all the way.

Beyond that, no idea why I woke up with Rising Talent this morning...but I accept.

 

[Choate]

Your motivation has paved the way for all of us. I finished my first job today - calling a call center person as a "customer" and providing feedback on their performance via a quick Google form and submitting it. I only set my rate at $5, but I proved to myself that it is possible, got "on the board", while my profile is only 50% complete and I've only used 6 connects! (3 applications). The whole process of completing the job took maybe 5 minutes.

 

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[oimate]

Quick question. I got an invitation yesterday for a $5 project that is basically talking on the phone to someone for 2-5 minutes and then you answer a questionnaire. From my understanding, it is a call center quality control call -- so I think I'll be talking to someone at a call center to make sure they are polite and whatever else. I'm a little suspicious of giving out a phone number, but it sounds like a pretty easy $5. The 30+ reviews all give it high reviews.

My hold up is mainly giving out my phone number due to privacy issues and them possibly creating a list of phone numbers for future use. Any thoughts?

Just go to the $/£ shop and buy a sim for such activities

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hey guys, just wanted to bring up a couple of points about Upwork, especially for new guys who might be doing this for the first time after reading this thread:

1. Upwork is easy money.
And for that reason it's easy to get comfortable with Upwork and spend a lot of time trying to find that big dream client who keeps income rolling steady for a while. Be careful because this can be a trap. You make a little money, then you make a little more, but eventually you struggle to move up to higher rates or go beyond the limitations Upwork imposes. And even if you find one of those big clients, it's still easy to get swept up in the idea that $1000 or $2000 a month is good pay, so you strike a deal and soon you have a full-time job at $10/hr. Hooray...or something like that...

2. Upwork is a job.
It's not uncommon for guys who start on Upwork to get stuck on Upwork. Not forever maybe, but over the last few years I've seen it multiple times. There's a tendency to want to stick with Upwork because it's what you know. Again, this is a sign of getting comfortable and it can be a trap that holds you back from bigger cash and clients. Use Upwork as a jumping off point, but be real about why you went there in the first place. If it was to start copywriting, start an agency, start a web design business etc., you're better off outside of Upwork in the long-run. Don't let comfort become an excuse.

3. Full-time income is like a sparkling unicorn...
Another trap of Upwork is the idea of making $100/hr or $1000 a week or "steady full-time income." It's like this thing you know is right around the corner but it somehow eludes you. And that's a problem because it makes you want it more. So you spend a lot of time applying to gigs and constantly tweaking your profile and trying to solve the enigma of Upwork so you can finally have that full-time pay and quit your job or whatever.

But it's not so easy to earn full-time income unless you have a sellable skill, can sell yourself, and follow the Upwork rules. Some people go in search of these mythical levels of pay (which really aren't all that high) for years, and end up accidentally postponing their fastlane dreams, or fooling themselves into believing Upwork can be "fastlane." Suddenly you've got 5 years behind you, wondering wtf happened and where you went wrong. Why are you still right where you started?

4. What's your purpose on Upwork?
This is probably the most important one for me. When I started on Upwork the first time, it wasn't to do it long-term. It came on the heels of a failed publishing company. I did it to build up cash so I could try to make a fastlane business. Upwork has never been my fastlane pursuit and I don't recommend it as yours either. In fact, copywriting isn't my fastlane pursuit either. Both of these are tools I use to build up cash and keep my bills paid while not being bound by a job so I can take bigger swings with other business ideas, whatever those may be.

So what's your purpose with Upwork? You need to get real with yourself. Acknowledge Upwork as the tool it is and get a little experience. But also acknowledge when it's time to move on. Acknowledge you could spend the same time sending emails or cold calling outside of Upwork and instantly double or triple your income. The same skills you use on Upwork are needed by businesses all over the world. If your purpose is to run an agency or write copy or whatever, start thinking about the next level. How will you go beyond? How will you scale? How will you impact magnitude?

If your purpose on Upwork is to earn cash so you can do something else like ecommerce or inventing or building an app, then figure out how much you need to earn so you can get started on that other thing. When you hit that point, then it's time to start. Be mindful with your cash. Just because you have some doesn't mean it's there to spend. Use it wisely. You want to build a business, it's time to start thinking and acting like a business owner.

5. Remember your dream.
Upwork and other freelance platforms can suck you in with their seductive nature. Use them to fuel your dreams, not to replace them. When getting gigs starts getting easy, it's probably time to consider why you're still there, and how comfortable you'd be pitching clients if you didn't have that platform tomorrow. Comfort is a dream killer. Just remember that. Remember your dreams and always move towards them. Don't get stuck on a treadmill running in place going nowhere...