Preserving Wealth, My #1 Tip. Don't Get Married! (Or Maybe You Should?)

[Jamesdoesmith]

St Jerome, 393 AD


He is frequently ranked among the likes of Augustine, Ambrose, and Gregory the Great as one of the original Doctors of the Church.



Even back then, women were quick to move on with their (love) lives, and marriage vows held little sway.

A book - On Marriage - worth its weight in gold, passes under the name of Theophrastus. In it the author asks whether a wise man marries. And after laying down the conditions that the wife must be fair, of good character and honest parentage, the husband in good health and of ample means, and after saying that under these circumstances a wise man sometimes enters the state of matrimony, he immediately proceeds thus:

"But all these conditions are seldom satisfied in marriage. A wise man therefore must not take a wife.For in the first place his study of philosophy will be hindered, and it is impossible for anyone to attend to his books and his wife. Matrons want many things: costly dresses, gold, jewels, great outlay, maid-servants, all kinds of furniture, litters and gilded coaches. Then come curtain-lectures the livelong night: she complains that one lady goes out better dressed than she; that another is looked up to by all; 'I am a poor despised nobody at the ladies assemblies.' 'Why did you ogle that creature next door?' 'Why were you talking to the maid?' 'What did you bring from the market?' 'I am not allowed to have a single friend, or companion.' She suspects that her husband's love goes the same way as her hate.


We are not the first, nor the last men to discuss this. And at 21, I see no need to attach myself to someone. It does make me sad, that the 29 year, loving, caring, I need you like you need me, understanding and patient marriage my parents have is a thing of the past. I just fear for my classmates at conservative southern schools who are marred at my age. NO not engaged, fully legally married don't see the light that is a premature decision. I have a kingdom to build. places to go and people to meet. To me, marriage is like an anchor. Or like a mortgage depending on who you marry


Never get married.

 

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[DreamsCameTrue]

Since Ive bashed on the legal system of marriage enough, I'll suggest some alternatives. By this point you either see the light or you don't.

- get the ceremony with no state license, as suggested by GlobalWealth
- get engaged and stay engaged forever
- sit down with your mate and watch Divorce Corp, weigh the pros and cons together and you can make a fully informed decision

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Since Ive bashed on the legal system of marriage enough, I'll suggest some alternatives. By this point you either see the light or you don't.

- get the ceremony with no state license, as suggested by GlobalWealth
- get engaged and stay engaged forever
- sit down with your mate and watch Divorce Corp, weigh the pros and cons together and you can make a fully informed decision

There's over 38,000 threads on this forum. Do any of them (other than this one) interest you?

 

[JAMES-L67]

If you are worried about your spouse taking 50% of what you have, you have the wrong spouse.

 

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[DreamsCameTrue]

Yeah sure, I've posted on a few other threads and I have my own thread detailing my development that people seem to like. Why the bad vibes? I'm one of the small % of posters on this forum who have actually made some money.

This thread just keeps popping up in my email when people reply, so I click the link. That's what your forum/email system is designed to do, get people to post more, right?

 

[Vigilante]

Since Ive bashed on the legal system of marriage enough, I'll suggest some alternatives. By this point you either see the light or you don't.

- get the ceremony with no state license, as suggested by GlobalWealth
- get engaged and stay engaged forever
- sit down with your mate and watch Divorce Corp, weigh the pros and cons together and you can make a fully informed decision

I am relatively certain that GW would not hold himself up as a role model in this regard.

You seem somewhat obsessed with Divorce Corp. Hmmmm. Interesting. You/they have been riding this free advertising for nearly a year now.

This latest advice is AWESOME. Why buy the cow when you are getting free milk, right?

Unless you happen to live in

Alabama, Colorado, Kansas, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Iowa, Montana, Utah, and Texas and the District of Columbia, in which case your advice will get people the same results in court after a few years as it would if they were married. Awesome. Thanks, pal. Since you are passing out legal advice (without a license) they should send you a bill if they rely on your post for legal advice.

So, your advice only screwed people in 20% of the United States.

You always want to be careful who you listen to on the internet.

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

Excellent point by Vigilante! Guys be sure and make a note of that list of states he mentioned.
Easy fix, keep separate addresses if you want to avoid common law marriage.


I'll be here staring at my screen and waiting to reply if anyone else wants to chat about this topic
Didn't I tell you guys I was a bored millionaire?

 

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[StevieB]

If there's even a 25% change, why get married when you can do everything the same while unmarried?

This is what I always come back to. I've been with my spouse for 5 1/2 years and have been pressured to getting married, but it always comes back to this.

Why?

Is there anything I can do in marriage that I can do without marriage?

Marriage keeps couples together who long drifted away. People who are unmarried don't have the threat of divorce over their head to stay together.

I think it's just a traditional institution and people like the 'even't of a marriage.

You can make emotional appeals such as 'I can't imagine my life without my wife' and post pictures of sunsets, etc... but that doesn't make your love for each other any deeper than it would outside of marriage.

Even if you've been together 30+ years it can still end.

We've heard all the risks, but have yet to hear the advantage of getting married.

Doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[Vigilante]

This is what I always come back to. I've been with my spouse for 5 1/2 years and have been pressured to getting married, but it always comes back to this.

Why?

Is there anything I can do in marriage that I can do without marriage?

Marriage keeps couples together who long drifted away. People who are unmarried don't have the threat of divorce over their head to stay together.

I think it's just a traditional institution and people like the 'even't of a marriage.

You can make emotional appeals such as 'I can't imagine my life without my wife' and post pictures of sunsets, etc... but that doesn't make your love for each other any deeper than it would outside of marriage.

Even if you've been together 30+ years it can still end.

We've heard all the risks, but have yet to hear the advantage of getting married.

Doesn't really make sense to me.

This one is pretty simple.

YOU shouldn't get married.

And you likely have attracted a mate that is OK with that.

Problem solved.

 

[luniac]

If I choose to get married someday I'd have a FAIR prenup drafted. I can understand how a woman would get the short end of the stick in a divorce if she was relegated to unemployed housewife while the husband is building a career(or making millions whatever).

However, fair prenup does not equal 50% of everything, no way no how.

 

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[king156]

Life pretty simple, find someone just don't marry them. What difference just a bit of paper make? NOTHING! Theres always going to be that what if, why is she wanting to get married, woman have it far easier when it come to divorce.

 

[Delmania]

This is what I always come back to. I've been with my spouse for 5 1/2 years and have been pressured to getting married, but it always comes back to this.

Why?

Is there anything I can do in marriage that I can do without marriage?

Marriage keeps couples together who long drifted away. People who are unmarried don't have the threat of divorce over their head to stay together.

I think it's just a traditional institution and people like the 'even't of a marriage.

You can make emotional appeals such as 'I can't imagine my life without my wife' and post pictures of sunsets, etc... but that doesn't make your love for each other any deeper than it would outside of marriage.

Even if you've been together 30+ years it can still end.

We've heard all the risks, but have yet to hear the advantage of getting married.

Doesn't really make sense to me.

Simple: commitment. Being married shows you what real commitment is and helps you leave about who you are and who you are not.

The concept of being in a committed relationship outside of marriage is impossible. At any moment, the two of you can part ways like nothing happens. Marriage changes that. Being married means you've made a public commitment to be with that person through thick and thin, and to work through your issues, no matter how hard it is. It means putting your relationship ahead of your own personal interests; you have skin in the game. The problem with the divorce rate is not that marriage itself is flawed, it's that it is too easy in the United States to get married and get divorced. Couples should really go through a program like the Catholic Church's PreCana program. My inlaws were counsellors in that for years, and they have more than enough stories about a starry eyed couple that walked in, went through the program, and decided marriage was not in their best course of action.

 

[GlobalWealth]

The problem with the divorce rate is not that marriage itself is flawed, it's that it is too easy in the United States to get married and get divorced. .

Hahahaha. Easy to get divorced? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

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[GIlman]

Simple: commitment. Being married shows you what real commitment is and helps you leave about who you are and who you are not.

The concept of being in a committed relationship outside of marriage is impossible. At any moment, the two of you can part ways like nothing happens. Marriage changes that. Being married means you've made a public commitment to be with that person through thick and thin, and to work through your issues, no matter how hard it is. It means putting your relationship ahead of your own personal interests; you have skin in the game.

Your absolutely right, no doubt about it.

But the point is that many of us don't want this thing you call real commitment. Thats the whole point. We see a lot of undesirable baggage that goes along with this "real" commitment, or at least what you are calling real commitment.

You may not see it as "baggage" and gain some solace or benefit from that feeling...and you know what i think thats great. Its your life you should live how you believe and do what makes you happy.

But, those of us who choose a different path ask from you the same respect in return. We see things different than you and have different beliefs. We choose to live our lives the way we do because it makes us happy.

Now, thats really not asking much is it. We respect your point of view, even if we disagree with it. And likewise you respect yours.

Hahahaha. Easy to get divorced? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

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This is also very true. Its not the getting divorced that sucks. It's the 2-5 year emotional drain on your life. And thats not even mentioning the financial part of it.


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[Delmania]

Hahahaha. Easy to get divorced? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

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I live in New York State; my wife and I can file a no-fault divorce and walk away. How many divorce proceedings are marked with "irreconcilable differences?" I remember Brittney Spears and Kim Kardashian's marriages.

 

[GlobalWealth]

I live in New York State; my wife and I can file a no-fault divorce and walk away. How many divorce proceedings are marked with "irreconcilable differences?" I remember Brittney Spears and Kim Kardashian's marriages.

Many states have different laws. I am originally from NC. You must be legally separated for 1 year before you are allowed to file for divorce.

Not to mention the issue of a contested divorce. Very few are filed as no-fault.

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[Delmania]

Your absolutely right, no doubt about it.

But the point is that many of us don't want this thing you call real commitment. Thats the whole point. We see a lot of undesirable baggage that goes along with this "real" commitment, or at least what you are calling real commitment.

You may not see it as "baggage" and gain some solace or benefit from that feeling...and you know what i think thats great. Its your life you should live how you believe and do what makes you happy.

But, those of us who choose a different path ask from you the same respect in return. We see things different than you and have different beliefs. We choose to live our lives the way we do because it makes us happy.

Now, thats really not asking much is it. We respect your point of view, even if we disagree with it. And likewise you respect yours.

I am perfectly ok with people who don't want to get married or have children. I just don't agree with the concept of a "committed long-term relationship" for an unmarried couple. Marriage is literally commitment. If you don't want to get married, that has literally no impact on my marriage. (I like the word literally).

This post is about not getting married to preserve wealth, which is a non sequitur. Assuming you're smart enough to avoid gold diggers, marriage in the West has nothing to do with wealth and more about commitment to that person.

 

[GIlman]

I live in New York State; my wife and I can file a no-fault divorce and walk away. How many divorce proceedings are marked with "irreconcilable differences?" I remember Brittney Spears and Kim Kardashian's marriages.

I wish you good luck with that plan. No fault with irreconcilable differences are not the same as uncontested. I have never known a single person with any substantial assets that went through an uncontested amicable divorce. Not ONE.

What your describing is akin to a unicorn. you can believe all u want, it wont make it real.

And quite honestly this is the very reason this thread has drug on so long. people that have never been through a divorce making statements like this that are completely untrue and many of us have seen just how untrue it is.

Look, your very naive to how the legal system treats marriage. I don't mean this as an insult, it just means you have no experience..i envy you for that. But, you really cant make the claims and assumptions you are because you have no experience or facts to base then on.

And since you brought it up. Let's watch Kim's recently announced divorce and see how that plays out. Hint, we may be waiting a really long time.


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[GlobalWealth]

A good friend of mine got a divorce with no kids. Both him and his wife owned their own businesses and were roughly equal in assets and income.

She sued him for $4000/m in dog support.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Easy divorce? Hahahaha

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[Vigilante]

I wish you good luck with that plan. Irreconcilable differences are not the same as uncontested. I have never known a single person with any substantial assets that went through an uncontested amicable divorce. Not ONE.

What your describing is akin to a unicorn. you can believe all u want, it wont make it real.

And quite honestly this is the very reason this thread has drug on so long. people that have never been through a divorce making statements like this that are completely untrue and many of us have seen just how untrue it is.

Look, your very naive to how the legal system treats marriage. I don't mean this as an insult, it just means you have no experience..i envy you for that. But, you really cant make the claims and assumptions you are because you have no experience or facts to base then on.

And since you brought it up. Let's watch Kim's recently announced divorce and see how that plays out. Hint, we may be waiting a really long time.


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The reason this thread has gone on so long as there are ludicrous posts on both side of the equation and emotions from people that want to vent about being burned by fire. I would have closed it a long time ago (a year ago) as all of the arguments now are retreads but it's not my house. However, the intellect or lack there of is not relegated to one side of this discussion or the other.

 

[GIlman]

The reason this thread has gone on so long as there are ludicrous posts on both side of the equation and emotions from people that want to vent about being burned by fire. I would have closed it a long time ago (a year ago) as all of the arguments now are retreads but it's not my house. However, the intellect or lack there of is not relegated to one side of this discussion or the other.

@Vigilante, i'm not commenting on marriage as should or should not.

Just making the point that none of us that have gone through divorce really knew what it was all about before. In hind sight it seems judgmental how i wrote that, it wasn't intended that way. My apologies.

And your right, this discussion has been fanned by all sides.

Your very pro marriage, i totally respect that. I actually come from completely conservative extremely religious family, Mormon believe it or not. I can't even count the number of times in the past 3 years my parents have told me i needed to get married. I just take it, brush it off, and go on with my life.

I'd rather just enjoy my time with them then try to prove my point. Because, frankly, no matter what I say they aren't going to change their minds. They believe what they believe.

I guess thats the same as everyone else. And with that thought, I'm choosing to let this thread lie. Lets all get back to the business of success.


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[jon.a]

Ignore thread option?!?

 

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[Vigilante]

@Vigilante, i'm not commenting on marriage as should or should not.

Just making the point that none of us that have gone through divorce really knew what it was all about before. In hind sight it seems judgmental how i wrote that, it wasn't intended that way. My apologies.

And your right, this discussion has been fanned by all sides.

Your very pro marriage, i totally respect that. I actually come from completely conservative extremely religious family, Mormon believe it or not. I can't even count the number of times in the past 3 years my parents have told me i needed to get married. I just take it, brush it off, and go on with my life.

I'd rather just enjoy my time with them then try to prove my point. Because, frankly, no matter what I say they aren't going to change their minds. They believe what they believe.

I guess thats the same as everyone else. And with that thought, I'm choosing to let this thread lie. Lets all get back to the business of success.


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I met your GF at the meetup, and she is a keeper, married or not.

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

Assuming you're smart enough to avoid gold diggers, marriage in the West has nothing to do with wealth and more about commitment to that person.

It's not about gold diggers, I'm raising the point that the LEGAL SYSTEM and LAWYERS will take your money. The deck is stacked against you in a very unfair way if you have money and you're getting a divorce.

Avoiding an event that could reduce your net worth by 80% is very pertinent since we are talking about asset protection.

PS- there's nothing wrong with having an ongoing thread as long as it's reasonable. Most posts are insightful here. Why lament the fact that people are having a discussion? Is the goal of every thread to come to a conclusion and be done? Just let people talk, that's what internet message boards are for.

 

[Delmania]

It's not about gold diggers, I'm raising the point that the LEGAL SYSTEM and LAWYERS will take your money. The deck is stacked against you in a very unfair way if you have money and you're getting a divorce.

Avoiding an event that could reduce your net worth by 80% is very pertinent since we are talking about asset protection.

PS- there's nothing wrong with having an ongoing thread as long as it's reasonable. Most posts are insightful here. Why lament the fact that people are having a discussion? Is the goal of every thread to come to a conclusion and be done? Just let people talk, that's what internet message boards are for.

I didn't indicate that this thread is done, where did you get that idea? I am simply saying to avoid getting married because of divorce and the potential impact to your assets doesn't make follow. It means you need to make sure you choose a good spouse and that you work at your marriage. Marriage, like any commitment, involves sacrifice and hard work. It's by no means outdated, just the notion that everyone needs to get married is wrong.


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[StevieB]

Simple: commitment. Being married shows you what real commitment is and helps you leave about who you are and who you are not.

The concept of being in a committed relationship outside of marriage is impossible. At any moment, the two of you can part ways like nothing happens. Marriage changes that. Being married means you've made a public commitment to be with that person through thick and thin, and to work through your issues, no matter how hard it is. It means putting your relationship ahead of your own personal interests; you have skin in the game. The problem with the divorce rate is not that marriage itself is flawed, it's that it is too easy in the United States to get married and get divorced. Couples should really go through a program like the Catholic Church's PreCana program. My inlaws were counsellors in that for years, and they have more than enough stories about a starry eyed couple that walked in, went through the program, and decided marriage was not in their best course of action.

Disagree. That may have been true at some point in the past but being married doesn't mean you're committed. It could just mean you liked the idea of marriage at one point, or fell into societies pressures to getting married, or just wanted to pop out of a big cake with all your friends and family on an island in the Bahama's one day.

Seeing as to how divorce is now at a 50% rate just because you have a piece of paper doesn't mean your committed to that person.

In fact, I believe real commitment is staying with a person outside of marriage because you don't have the threat of losing much of your assets and money. If your married you have a lot of BAD reasons to stay with that person because of what would happen if you left. I wouldn't call that commitment.

Commitment is staying with them regardless of not having any consequences of leaving them.

 

[Delmania]

Disagree. That may have been true at some point in the past but being married doesn't mean you're committed. It could just mean you liked the idea of marriage at one point, or fell into societies pressures to getting married, or just wanted to pop out of a big cake with all your friends and family on an island in the Bahama's one day.

Seeing as to how divorce is now at a 50% rate just because you have a piece of paper doesn't mean your committed to that person.

In fact, I believe real commitment is staying with a person outside of marriage because you don't have the threat of losing much of your assets and money. If your married you have a lot of BAD reasons to stay with that person because of what would happen if you left. I wouldn't call that commitment.

Commitment is staying with them regardless of not having any consequences of leaving them.

I've heard that claim before, and we'll have to agree to disagree. If you're truly committed to something, be it a person, or an idea, you'll have a stake in it. So long as you have the option to leave with no consequence, you're only interested, not committed. The fact that divorce has become easier doesn't make that any less real. The divorce rate is so high because people are rushing in to get married, and then dropping it at the moment it's no longer convenient for them.

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

So if I'm truly committed to something, I should create heavy financial consequences for leaving that commitment?

If I want to commit to working out every day, should I have a team of lawyers take away 80% of my assets once I stop working out? Maybe that would make me more committed?

There's nothing wrong with being committed. The problem is that our government and legal system in the good ole USA has creates ways to profit off your broken commitments and penalize you financially for something that should have nothing to do with your finances.

It is not fair. What is going on is indefensible.

Furthermore, young people don't know what they're getting themselves into with marriage. Older folks who know nothing about the changing laws are telling these young kids to get married and then they're getting wiped out a decade later. It's not right and it's hurting our country.

 

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[GMSI7D]

i was watching a seminar ( don't ask me, this is a french seminar so you won't understand anything)

and the speaker said something i agree with :

" never marry until you are mature enough, until you are 35 or 40 ".

young people want sex and they fall in the trap of marriage so to speak.

 

[GIlman]

Marriage is a business contract. As a business how does it stack up. I'd love to hear others assessment of how it fits the CENTS's.

N - Need

Subjective. Many people want to get married, but anyone will be hard pressed to prove a true need that can't be met without. The only real need I see that can be met is resolution of guilt if people have been brought up with those beliefs.

E - Barriers to Entry

Exceedingly low. Basically a marriage license.

C - Control

None. You are at the total mercy of your partner and the state. Even though the barrier to entry is low the barrier to exit can be extremely high. Ask @GlobalWealth . You certainly will lose control of a huge amount of your money both during and/or after the marriage ends (if you have any that is).

T - Time

Variable. You lose a tremendous amount of control over your time. If you relationship ends you may lose control of your time in many ways, especially if your divorce drags on for years or decades. It can impair your ability to move forward in your own life in any way for a very long time.

S - Scale

Doesn't.


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