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Working through my biggest mental block. Here it is.

Andy Black

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Listen to/read the book.
 
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Andy Black

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Why do you do that though (help people just for the sake of it?) There has to be a reason. You have 16 hours in a day to do things. Why would you spend any amount of it on helping people if it provided you nothing in return?

There has to be something:

-forum status
-social recognition
-better network

Anything?
If an old dear fell over in the street would you run to go help them up? Or pick up their groceries that have scattered to the winds?
 

broswoodwork

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Zero sum.
In the strict confines of that scenario; however, the market wins as a whole by the most helpful participant helping the most people. Advertising itself isn't going to lift a lousy value proposition to market leader status, at least not until you're Geico level with all the advantages of regulatory capture, so the person who's advertising wins most, again, is the person who offers the greatest advantages to the most people.

The people who lose some business, as result of a more helpful competitor taking a larger share through advertising, can choose to become more helpful (hopefully not through a pricing race to the bottom) or to employ their time/ capital in a way that's more advantageous to the world.
 
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Jakeeck

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If an old dear fell over in the street would you run to go help them up? Or pick up their groceries that have scattered to the winds?

Yes. Even if nobody was around.

Why?

Hmm. I don't know. I would feel bad leaving her there. It would make me feel good to help.

I don't get that feeling from my work though. I help people gain more business and what? They make some more money? They're already well-off enough anyway. If I'm going to help people, why would I help businesses who have money? Why wouldn't I go volunteer in a third-world country that needed help?

I know you work with Adwords. What about your work makes you feel good? I personally wouldn't be able to find purpose in helping businesses make more money, at least nowhere near the magnitude in which I'd feel good about helping an old lady who fell in the street.
 

Andy Black

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I know you work with Adwords. What about your work makes you feel good? I personally wouldn't be able to find purpose in helping businesses make more money, at least nowhere near the magnitude in which I'd feel good about helping an old lady who fell in the street.
Listen the first radio interview in my signature, or the shorter version here (ideally both):
 

Jakeeck

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In the strict confines of that scenario; however, the market wins as a whole by the most helpful participant helping the most people. Advertising itself isn't going to lift a lousy value proposition to market leader status, at least not until you're Geico level with all the advantages of regulatory capture, so the person who's advertising wins most, again, is the person who offers the greatest advantages to the most people.

The people who lose some business, as result of a more helpful competitor taking a larger share through advertising, can choose to become more helpful (hopefully not through a pricing race to the bottom) or to employ their time/ capital in a way that's more advantageous to the world.

Agreed, and if they DO choose to become more helpful, they'll regain that lost business. Their competitor who originally overtook them will lose business when they do this, which is again zero sum.

Did something fly over my head?
 
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Thank you for this. I had been avoiding coming back into this thread due to fear of exposing myself as a narcissist or total a**hole, but this was refreshing for me to hear. I definitely relate to being in that limbo of being between groups/social circles right now.

I appreciate everyone else in here too speaking about how they're motivated by helping other people. My contention is that you don't ACTUALLY like helping other people.

You like the benefits you get from helping other people, and you like those benefits MORE than the benefits you would get from making money or (insert reward here) WITHOUT helping people.

It really does all circle back to some self-serving purpose in my view. If you got nothing in return for your efforts, would you still help people?

I don't know why, but none of this "virtuous" stuff resonates with me. I already help people (from a business standpoint... I provide a great service), but that's not my root motivation or driving force. It's just that I know helping people is the only way I can help myself. I wouldn't help people if I knew it would never do anything for me. I don't think many would disagree with this.

I know everyone says you're not "supposed to" expect anything in return, but isn't the premise of "provide value and the universe will find a way to return it to you" or something more Earl Nightengale-like of "Our rewards will always be in exact proportion to our service." -- Don't these imply "expecting" something in return? Even if only on a macro basis? As in you know that your effort will someday result in a reward for you.

I like helping other people because it helps myself.

Maybe I'm just projecting my own assumptions on other people, so I'll ask.

WHY do you like helping other people?
Maybe you're just not there yet. Give yourself time...

I help people for a couple of different reasons:
1. Some very good people took me under their wings when I was a young, homeless, lost kid. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't be here. I think of those kind souls every time that I help someone. I try to pass on their kindness to honor them. They are on my "grateful" list even today, over 50 years later.
2. I try to pay forward and I am very loved by many of the people around me. I tell each person that I bless to pass it on to someone else or do me a small favor someday. Because I have a giving spirit, many of the people around me are always doing "kindnesses" for me. I have become lucky in a way that many people would only dream of.
I'm careful about when and how I give. Giving can cripple a person who isn't in the mindset to properly receive. If you give to a person, who doesn't feel that they deserve your gift, then they hate you for your generosity. I teach people to fish a lot more than giving them a fish. If they accept and run with the opportunity, then I give a little more. I "spoon-feed" the gifts rather than shower that person. Sometimes my gift is to set them up with the right person.

For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her.

Most of the time, my plan for giving doesn't work. They fail and I walk away wishing them well. When it does work, I walk away feeling blessed and in sync with the Universe. BUT, I've had people come back much later to thank me for my help. They tell me that they got their act together later out of my view... I don't care how or when it works. I just want good for them.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it is all for me. But, my work and gifts make a lot of difference to a lot of people around me. The generous side of my spirit is many times contiguous. I believe in the concept of karma. Conversely, I sure don't want to make any bad causes or unforced errors. I hate to take the time to clean up any new messes. I'm already too busy cleaning up my little corner of the world. I believe that one person can change the whole world by starting with themselves and the people around them. That's my secret goal. Through this conversation, I'm working on making the world a better place -- and I'm starting with talking to you, at this moment, and on this forum.
 

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Maybe you're just not there yet. Give yourself time...

I help people for a couple of different reasons:
1. Some very good people took me under their wings when I was a young, homeless, lost kid. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't be here. I think of those kind souls every time that I help someone. I try to pass on their kindness to honor them. They are on my "grateful" list even today, over 50 years later.
2. I try to pay forward and I am very loved by many of the people around me. I tell each person that I bless to pass it on to someone else or do me a small favor someday. Because I have a giving spirit, many of the people around me are always doing "kindnesses" for me. I have become lucky in a way that many people would only dream of.
I'm careful about when and how I give. Giving can cripple a person who isn't in the mindset to properly receive. If you give to a person, who doesn't feel that they deserve your gift, then they hate you for your generosity. I teach people to fish a lot more than giving them a fish. If they accept and run with the opportunity, then I give a little more. I "spoon-feed" the gifts rather than shower that person. Sometimes my gift is to set them up with the right person.

For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her.

Most of the time, my plan for giving doesn't work. They fail and I walk away wishing them well. When it does work, I walk away feeling blessed and in sync with the Universe. BUT, I've had people come back much later to thank me for my help. They tell me that they got their act together later out of my view... I don't care how or when it works. I just want good for them.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it is all for me. But, my work and gifts make a lot of difference to a lot of people around me. The generous side of my spirit is many times contiguous. I believe in the concept of karma. Conversely, I sure don't want to make any bad causes or unforced errors. I hate to take the time to clean up any new messes. I'm already too busy cleaning up my little corner of the world. I believe that one person can change the whole world by starting with themselves and the people around them. That's my secret goal. Through this conversation, I'm working on making the world a better place -- and I'm starting with talking to you, at this moment, and on this forum.

The type of post that really makes me think. Love this. Thank you so much.

This, specifically:

"For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her."

Why does this make ME feel warm and fuzzy inside, and I'm not even the one who did it? I can't imagine how rewarding that would be in your shoes.

I need to figure out why it feels so good to do things like this, and how I can put myself in a position to do them, preferably with my work or with the money/opportunities that come to me because of my work.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it. WHY do I need to know why it feels so good, rather than just accepting that it does feel good and doing more of it? I feel this need to dig to the very root, the very end of that root, to find out what causes these human emotions/reactions/behaviors. It's probably unknowable anyways.
 

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The type of post that really makes me think. Love this. Thank you so much.

This, specifically:

"For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her."

Why does this make ME feel warm and fuzzy inside, and I'm not even the one who did it? I can't imagine how rewarding that would be in your shoes.

I need to figure out why it feels so good to do things like this, and how I can put myself in a position to do them, preferably with my work or with the money/opportunities that come to me because of my work.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it. WHY do I need to know why it feels so good, rather than just accepting that it does feel good and doing more of it? I feel this need to dig to the very root, the very end of that root, to find out what causes these human emotions/reactions/behaviors. It's probably unknowable anyways.
Because your human and you're a kind person on the inside. Honor your best nature. And pass it on to the next person you meet. Even if it's giving them a smile and a little wave. You may make their day better!
 
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Andy Black

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I helped an electrician friend in 2009 who's work dried up when the economy tanked. He had a wife, two kids, a baby on the way, and he had to hand his van back. I setup a website and some Google Ads campaigns for him. I remember him ringing me saying "Andy, I've had a call!". The hair goes up on the back of my neck every time I tell that story.

I help local kids with their Maths. A few have gotten into College/University because I helped them pass their Maths exams. It tires me out to do it, but it's worth it because of the potential better direction they can take in life. I mostly get no thanks from them for it, but that's ok. I don't need to know what they're up to now.

I spend a lot of time helping people in this forum. I get satisfaction helping someone get out of their own way.


My favourite business quote:

"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person closest to you." (Mother Theresa)

If I like helping people so much then why don't I just help people and not get paid? Because I'd go out of business, have to get a job, and wouldn't help as many people.

Why don't I help bigger businesses and get paid more? Because I get to deal with a marketing manager in a j.o.b. instead of the business owner who's trying to keep a roof over his head and meet payroll. One frustrates me, the other motivates me.

I only help certain types of businesses and business owners. I insist on speaking to each of them before I help them. I need to understand that I can indeed help them, and get a feeling for what it means to them. Without that then they're just a "client", and not a person that I'm helping.



May I humbly suggest again that you listen to the first radio interview in my signature. Drop your feedback and/or takeaways in here or in that thread.
 

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I helped an electrician friend in 2009 who's work dried up when the economy tanked. He had a wife, two kids, a baby on the way, and he had to hand his van back. I setup a website and some Google Ads campaigns for him. I remember him ringing me saying "Andy, I've had a call!". The hair goes up on the back of my neck every time I tell that story.

I help local kids with their Maths. A few have gotten into College/University because I helped them pass their Maths exams. It tires me out to do it, but it's worth it because of the potential better direction they can take in life. I mostly get no thanks from them for it, but that's ok. I don't need to know what they're up to now.

I spend a lot of time helping people in this forum. I get satisfaction helping someone get out of their own way.


My favourite business quote:

"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person closest to you." (Mother Theresa)

If I like helping people so much then why don't I just help people and not get paid? Because I'd go out of business, have to get a job, and wouldn't help as many people.

Why don't I help bigger businesses and get paid more? Because I get to deal with a marketing manager in a j.o.b. instead of the business owner who's trying to keep a roof over his head and meet payroll. One frustrates me, the other motivates me.

May I humbly suggest again that you listen to the first radio interview in my signature. Drop your feedback and/or takeaways in here or in that thread.
Andy, I love to read your posts. And the quote from Mother Theresa is lovely. Cheers!
 

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I helped an electrician friend in 2009 who's work dried up when the economy tanked. He had a wife, two kids, a baby on the way, and he had to hand his van back. I setup a website and some Google Ads campaigns for him. I remember him ringing me saying "Andy, I've had a call!". The hair goes up on the back of my neck every time I tell that story.

I help local kids with their Maths. A few have gotten into College/University because I helped them pass their Maths exams. It tires me out to do it, but it's worth it because of the potential better direction they can take in life. I mostly get no thanks from them for it, but that's ok. I don't need to know what they're up to now.

I spend a lot of time helping people in this forum. I get satisfaction helping someone get out of their own way.


My favourite business quote:

"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person closest to you." (Mother Theresa)

If I like helping people so much then why don't I just help people and not get paid? Because I'd go out of business, have to get a job, and wouldn't help as many people.

Why don't I help bigger businesses and get paid more? Because I get to deal with a marketing manager in a j.o.b. instead of the business owner who's trying to keep a roof over his head and meet payroll. One frustrates me, the other motivates me.



May I humbly suggest again that you listen to the first radio interview in my signature. Drop your feedback and/or takeaways in here or in that thread.

Superb. This is all truly helping me re-build and re-frame to a healthier state of mind.

On another note, this makes me realize how amazing the Internet is. It's popular to hate on technology nowadays, but it's the most amazing tool we (or at least I) have at our (my) disposal.

Give me 100 years and I never would have been able to communicate these things to people I know in real life, let alone get truly thought-provoking responses that can re-frame my reality.

I'll be giving your radio interview a listen and will report back. Started reading Give and Take as well.
 
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Andy Black

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Andy Black

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MitchM

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Humans have mirror neurons that make us feel good when other people feel good.

For many, helping others and knowing that we’ve helped is a motivating factor.

If the only thing you care about is the result in terms of money or status - that’s okay.. maybe you’re just wired differently.

Just know know that the same dynamics still apply.
 
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I've read all your posts @Jakeeck .

To me it seems that you already know what makes you tick.
You are just avoiding it.
By going into every little detail, by looking on the forum (externally) at answers about what should you be doing, by analyzing your problems instead of just acting to overcome them.

All of this is your subconscious mind playing games with your conscious one which already listed in this thread what needs to be done.

You can choose
to continue to analyze your thoughts and avoid taking action, or take action towards what brings you results.

Are you afraid of the next level?
You listed this thread as a "Mental Block". Will posting more and analyzing help you "Work" out of this mental block, or will taking action do it?
How many meetings with people that you consider as "next level" have you had so far?
 

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I've read all your posts @Jakeeck .

To me it seems that you already know what makes you tick.
You are just avoiding it.
By going into every little detail, by looking on the forum (externally) at answers about what should you be doing, by analyzing your problems instead of just acting to overcome them.

All of this is your subconscious mind playing games with your conscious one which already listed in this thread what needs to be done.

You can choose
to continue to analyze your thoughts and avoid taking action, or take action towards what brings you results.

Are you afraid of the next level?
You listed this thread as a "Mental Block". Will posting more and analyzing help you "Work" out of this mental block, or will taking action do it?
How many meetings with people that you consider as "next level" have you had so far?
Yes, NOT taking action or NOT making a decision -- is a decision within itself. It letting Life decide your fate. If you don't try, you have a 100% chance of failing. It's an unforced error. I can learn from my failures. But, I hate those odds and the lesson is obvious -- next time I need to make a decision. I'd rather try and fail, rather than accept the crumbs off of the table.
 

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