Why copywriting is a bunch of Bull$h^t and you shouldn't learn it...

[AndrewNC]

So let me tell you a story...

Let's call him Joe...

Joe spent the past six months "learning" how to write long form sales copy. Went through multiple courses, spend SIX MONTHS learning tips and tricks of writing the best sales copy you can think of.

He was trying to learn copy, but wasn't taking any practical action...so I decided to help him out. We partnered up on one of my magazines that I don't have time to grow myself, and I gave him the task of emailing CEOs of companies to get their product advertised in front of our 170,000 readers.

"Dear Friend,

Boy, do I have the opportunity of the lifetime for you...but only for a limited time so you have to act now!"

^THIS was the beginning of the sample email he drafted (to a CEO). It only got worse from there.

The moment I saw "Dear Friend", I puked in my mouth.

And it happened at the worst possible time. I just finished eating some [HASHTAG]#vegan[/HASHTAG] bacon. Too much info? I think it's that new vegan Tai Lopez diet...

ANYHOW - back on track.

"Dear Friend!?"

TO THE CEO OF A BUSINESS.

He said "what do you think?"

My reply? "TEST IT!"

Oh, and here is a sample email that you can test it against. 50 emails of his "dear friend" and 50 emails of something along the lines of.

"Hey!

I'm from __________ magazine and we feel that your product would be a great fit for our 170,000 readers.

Here's my # and email to talk more if you're interested"

something like that...it took me 5 seconds to write - and just offered them something instead of trying to sell.

A few days ago, Joe messages me "Andrew - I sold $450 worth of ads to people in the first 2 weeks!"

Awesome! Which email worked best?

"Nobody replied to the first one."

So here is the thing about sales copy...

I spent the last 2 years fascinated by unconscious influence and persuasion....Sales copy, NLP, and some other crazy stuff you haven't even heard of.

I not only wanted to improve my business, but my dating life....and then I learned one thing that truly WORKS...Using this one thing - the following unfolded (some dating example).

• In August 2015 - 3 days before I was leaving Scottsdale to drive up to Seattle, I meet a girl on tinder. Within an hour of meeting her, she said she was going to quit her job, voluntarily repot her car, and move to seattle with me for 3 months.
• In December 2015 - Within 30 minutes of meeting a girl - She was about to sell her car, quit her job, and leave her 2 year old son behind with her mother to travel the world with me!
• Might close a 5 figure per year contract with a large company with almost zero effort...

In both dating instances I said no (and I only use those examples to show how powerful this is..)....but the important thing to note is this...I DIDN'T USE ANY OF THOSE SALES TRICKS TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

In all three instances, I had something great, and other people wanted a part of it! They sensed the energy behind it. 99% of people's lives are BORING from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep.

If you and your brand can be that POSITIVE ENERGY that livens up their day.....they will sense that and want part of it. For the girls, they sensed my freedom and adventure. For the business....they sensed a large reach for his business...

Yes, I am not arguing that the principles behind the sales psychology work - they do.... and you can learn those very quickly. (but not always in the internet marketing spammy way).

When walmart puts on a discount - they play into scarcity - but the discount ends when they say it ends.

But the important thing to learn here is that people can unconsciously sense when you have something AMAZING you are about to offer them.

Does anybody realize @SinisterLex 's first lesson on his EPIC sales copy thread?

Day 1 Challenge

Really Help Someone – When I say help someone I’m not talking about convincing them that you can help them. It’s not about making them believe you can help them. It’s about actually helping them. But most of the people reading this will miss that part. That’s why I keep getting messages asking questions like “How do I get them to believe I can help them?”

Going forward - I feel that I'm going deeper into the phase of - telling stories and creating that positive emotional experience for people - so I am always the positive energy that sticks out during their day. For business relationships - I'm going in to build deeper relationships and make friends (even with customers - which I do that anyway -I don't even view my customers as customers).

Be real. Be authentic. And don't spend MONTHS trying to master ONE small part about business.

I didn't even know sales copy when I acquired my first 900,000 app downloads...

How can YOU and your brand be the light that brightens your customer's day?

 

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[JAJT]

Your friend wasn't a good Copywriter - that doesn't devalue the act of learning it. There isn't "one thing" to learn.

This guy you speak of basically memorized a few tricks from those before him and used them inappropriately and to the wrong audience.

Copywriting is nothing more and nothing less than selling with words. It needs to motivate your audience to do that thing you want them to do. Emailing CEOs is a lot different than selling face cream on an infomercial or getting clicks to your news blog.

I agree that the bottom line is helping people and being honest and adding value but you don't sell a car like you sell a phone like you sell a house like you sell yourself.

Every book and article on writing copy starts with "who is your audience?" and apparently your friend skipped that part.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I don't like inconsistencies.

And I don't like readers who take everything I write literally and label everything as a binary choice, either/or, black/white, yes/no.

I still maintain working for someone at 17 and learning an industry is far more valuable than hunting for copy jobs on Freelance sites.

And I maintain BOTH are equally valuable to the young kid who doesn't know where to start because he's as skillless and idealess as they get. These are the same lost folks who roll into this forum and ask "Is this Fastlane?" When you're too proud to work for someone or too lazy to learn a skill, sorry, that's not Fastlane no matter how anyone interprets what I wrote.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/is-this-fastlane-uh-no-it-isnt.58554/

As for the copywriting thread, it's GOLD because it could show someone how to write their own checks and get them out of the job culture. For me, this would have been something I found valuable when I was 22 years old and struggling from shit job to shit job.

but I'm losing respect for you by the day

Don't worry about it, lose whatever you feel justifies your dualism-- you won't threaten my sleep.

 

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[AndrewNC]

More thoughts - They say that people are driven by emotion...

The thoughts in people's minds trigger emotions. So the copywriting is used to create thoughts with the purpose of triggering emotions.

But what if you can get the emotions going right away with the energy behind it? People sense it...

 

[IGP]

This needed to be written. Thank you. There are actually gold threads marked on adopting "sales copy skill" if you can even call it that; to make a lofty $50k a year. This sort of talk belongs in a Freelancer community, not an Entrepreneur forum.

If you write such great sales copy: get a product, brand it, market, scale, profit. Next.

The point of those threads is that you can get started doing "something". They are geared towards people who are at the beginning of their entrepreneurial journey. 50K/year is just an arbitrary number. What if it was 50K/month? Would that make it more "entrepreneurial"?

Not to mention, that you could say the same thing about any specific skill set.

Programming
PPC Advertising
Writing Sales Copy
Facebook
Amazon
Building a Website
Branding
Sourcing products

You don't need to learn any of those things to be an entrepreneur.

And yet the irony is that there are people who have made millions by having laser focus in each of these areas.

The tool is NEVER the issue. It's the person wielding the tool!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

A thread marked Gold advocating for people to go out hunting down sales copy jobs on Freelance websites is just wasteful.

Wow, I had no idea you were so butthurt over that GOLD thread, a thread which I marked GOLD.

I would go into detail about WHY it was marked GOLD but what's the point, you've made up your mind that any Slowlane or "trade for time" endeavor is one gigantic waste of time, even if you're 17 years old with zero skills, zero money, and zero experience.

 

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[JasonR]

@AndrewNC creates click bait title on how you shouldn't learn to write copy? Hmmm....

 

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[Lex DeVille]

I-Banking is indisputably shit. It's after 2-3 years you can leave with clients and resources to carve out a hedge fund or other endeavor with credibility in the finance world. I obviously didn't go this route but I'd take it any day over half-assing Freelance copy jobs.

@Supa Yes I did. If I could go back in time I wouldn't have left my job, and no promise of learning copy and applying to endless Freelance copy jobs would change that. @relentlessaction works and has a booming eCommerce biz on the side. This 9-5 you're vilifying only inhibits you as much as you let it. When I was at a 9-5 I was able to blow through work and piss about on whatever else it was I wanted to do. I'd go so far as to say if you're a gifted multitasker you could work while building the business hiring a virtual receptionist to field any calls while working your 9-5. And you get benefits and reliable workflow consistency.

I digress. @MJ DeMarco wrote a great book, it inspired me and many others undeniably. But if I was 17, I'd get a job over this. You can argue semantics all you like. This just doesn't add up to what you promoted in your book. If you're so pro-Fastlane in your book why not inspire all 17 year olds to be this guy rather than compete with a million randos in third world countries for copy jobs?

Copy sucks. Don't learn it. Don't work for others doing it. Am with OP on this.

Maybe the book was misinterpreted. Maybe the point of the OP was misinterpreted too. From the posts here it seems the copywriting threads were definitely misinterpreted.

I only know of 2 Gold posts about copy and neither of them promote freelancing or copy as being "Fastlane" or even as something people on this forum should do. Both threads share the experiences of the author with an intent of showing others that they can take action.

Get a job. Freelance. Who F*cking cares...just do something that helps you get somewhere. Or don't.

In the end results are what matters. Not just any results, but getting the results you want. The results you set out for. Do you want to work 9-5? Do you enjoy that? (Rhetorical questions for those who tend to misinterpret things). Can what you're doing bring your definition of freedom to you?

If so then do or keep doing it and help others along the way.

This may fall on deaf ears because belief about what the Fastlane is seems to be strong here.

But belief for belief's sake is stupid.

Are your beliefs useful for you?

This is all that matters.

 

[Digamma]

Great post. I agree completely.

I think there are a lot of benefits in learning copy.

You learn to use simple words and to use graphic, specific language.
You learn to think in terms of benefits to the customer.
You learn to think of their objections and handle them.
You learn to choose an angle and target that angle.
You learn to use "you" a lot and put what the customer is interested in first.
You learn a lot of stuff.

However, people tend to mindlessly spout the formulas and constructions they see in books/courses.
Most of these example come from old newspaper ads, and they are trite and trite and trite.
And at this point in 2016 they scream SPAM! SPAM! SPAM!

To conclude:
I think there is a lot of value in learning the basics of persuasive writing.
I don't think there is a lot of value in going deep into learning to write advertising copy.

Be a persuasive communicator, don't be a copywriter.

PS: I had a chuckle thinking about selling advertising space as a "limited time offer".
CEO thinking process: What are you going to do, close up shop after running two ads? Do these guys think I'm a moron?
That is, of course, if by miracle they overlook the "Boy".

 

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[AndrewNC]

There is no such thing as a "pure" entrepreneur

The famous artist...is an entrepreneur.
Singers.
Celebrities.
Athletes.
Writers.

Anybody who is living their dreams and pushing forward for something greater day in and day out (in my opinion) is an entrepreneur.

 

[RHL]

To the point of the entire thread, I don't think you an or should outsource copywriting or ignore it. I think sales is too important in the genesis period of a business, letting someone else do it (especially someone you hired on upwork vs. a vested partner whose soul is in the company) is a recipe for mediocre results. I agree that most of the nostalgic copy from the 50's-90's is positively cringe-worthy today (when I first joined TMF I was appalled that people were studying this stuff), but it'd be cringy if you wrote a novel in Shakespearian English or a song that was nothing but major scales too. The point of fundamentals is not to end with them, but to know them so thoroughly that you can improvise tiny bits of them to make something greater and more relevant to your audience. JK Rowling could have bored the shit out of her readers with pages of Latin roots. Instead she dazzled them by making them a tiny bit of icing on the cake of a really good story.

To the point, letting people "feel your energy," even if it's through videos and live presentation, is to my mind just a permutation of copy. To me, all attempts to persuade a not-already-signing-the-receipt person to buy your product is some form of sales copy. Whether you wrote it using some conscious method or just shaped it by trial and error is immaterial.

I would go into detail about WHY it was marked GOLD but what's the point, you've made up your mind that any Slowlane or "trade for time" endeavor is one gigantic waste of time, even if you're 17 years old with zero skills, zero money, and zero experience.

In addition to what MJ's already said, your arguments about Lex's thread betray a severe lack of imagination.

Consider:

50K/yr isn't cool.

Know what's cool?

Location-independent, self-scheduled 50k/yr.

If you can make 50k/yr anywhere with an internet connection, you're playing in a different league than people who make $200k/yr rooted to one job. You could live in the south pacific and keep getting paid if you knew what you were doing. You could travel constantly. You could rent a studio in Scottsdale October-April, then head to Colorado May-September. More, you can allow a real Fastlane all the time it needs to grow while still feeding your family. Need to meet some dude at ten to sign papers? No problem. Good luck with that in a high pressure banking job; you're lucky if you even have time to take a shit and sleep every day, let alone cut out of work for hours to start a new company.

Additionally, if you can work nights some days, mornings some days, and evenings some days, you're not free-but you're damn close. That's worth a lot. How much depends on your imagination.

 

[BaraQueenbee]

BOOM.

*drops mic*

 

[AndrewNC]

Can I [HASHTAG]#landfill[/HASHTAG] my own thread?

 

[IGP]

This is bullshit. I like how you carefully mischaracterized what I said. Doing "something"? "Something" definitely sounds Slowlane, and the thread I was referring to was Slowlane, advocating people to spend all their time on sales copy to GET HIRED on Freelance websites (not to mention the time drain writing and applying to them).

If you want "something" get a job. Are you dense? $50k a year is not an arbitrary number. Show me who makes $50k a month writing other peoples shit on Freelance websites. Go make $50k a month on a Freelance site of your choosing and report back, champ. End of.

First off, chill the F*ck out!

Secondly, it is geared towards people who are Slowlane but want to get out of it.

Everyone has to start somewhere. Some people need that 50K to get started in business or to make the move to the Fastlane.

Lastly, I don't do freelance work. So, I have no idea if people can make 50K/month on free lance sites or not. However, that's not the point.

What I do know is that there are "copywriters" that have made hundreds of millions of dollars for themselves and their partners. And they didnt wake up one day and know how to write copy.

So, put that in your pipe and smoke it, Champ!

 

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[BaraQueenbee]

This contradicts just about everything you preached in your book. I don't like inconsistencies. I still maintain working for someone at 17 and learning an industry is far more valuable than hunting for copy jobs on Freelance sites. Can't emphasize enough the number of Entrepreneurs that find a problem by working at a job and then recognizing they can do it better. I don't know what your angle is but I'm losing respect for you by the day with what I'm reading.

You've been putting negative vibes and responding badly emotional since you've entered this thread, with condescending and disrespectful comments.

When you talk about inconsistencies , you seem to be the one and only fitting that title.
Unlike you said, there is plenty of room for "slowlaners and sidewalkers" on this forum, however there is no place for disrespecting well contributing forum members and absolutely no place for disrespecting the owner (again, how freaking dare you?!?!)

If you can not have a discussion with mutual respect and nice ness, the Internets is not the place for you, be sure to turn your computer/tablet/phone off, cause ain't nobody got time for this.

 

[IGP]

You can also go from a job to a productized service. Except a job requires less effort than applying to new Freelance jobs just to get workflow. Waste of time and serves no place in this Forum. You go write copy for someone else's business. I'll run my own.

If you want to be Slowlane - Get a job. This "Gold" marked thread and 'learning' copy is just asinine.

You do realize that the person that actually owns this forum and runs this forum marked the thread gold, right?

So, while you may think whatever you want, you are clearly wrong that it serves no place here.

 

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[Jon L]

I'll add my two cents. If you're not good at copywriting, instead of spending 6 months learning it, HIRE SOMEONE TO DO IT FOR YOU.

 

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[Deleted35442]

This needed to be written. Thank you. There are actually gold threads marked on adopting "sales copy skill" if you can even call it that; to make a lofty $50k a year. This sort of talk belongs in a Freelancer community, not an Entrepreneur forum.

If you write such great sales copy: get a product, brand it, market, scale, profit. Next.

 

[jsk29]

Sounds like a case of tunnel vision rather than "copywriting is bullshit".

Dan Kennedy's Marketing Triangle:
______Message______
Market_______Media

Send the right message to the right market using the right media

In this case, it was the WRONG message to CEOs using Email (or right message to wrong market - either way there was a mismatch there).

Sounds like he copied out a lot of Gary Halbert Ads by hand but didn't keep in mind many of them were newspaper ads targeting broad audiences via print.

Over excited to finally release built up knowledge and get some action... resulted in loss of common sense and a premature ending.

edit: ugly triangle..

 

[MartinMC]

As for the copywriting thread, it's GOLD because it could show someone how to write their own checks and get them out of the job culture. For me, this would have been something I found valuable when I was 22 years old and struggling from shit job to shit job.

^ This ^ is exactly right. Learning about copywriting from the copy threads on here (especially @SinisterLex) has allowed me to:

1.) Write my own checks and quit my shit job

and

2.) Start funding my fastlane endeavor

 

[Kyle Tully]

Sounds like a case of tunnel vision rather than "copywriting is bullshit".

Dan Kennedy's Marketing Triangle:
______Message______
Market_______Media

Send the right message to the right market using the right media

In this case, it was the WRONG message to CEOs using Email (or right message to wrong market - either way there was a mismatch there).

Sounds like he copied out a lot of Gary Halbert Ads by hand but didn't keep in mind many of them were newspaper ads targeting broad audiences via print.

Over excited to finally release built up knowledge and get some action... resulted in loss of common sense and a premature ending.

edit: ugly triangle..

THIS.

Copywriting isn't about using "dear friend" or copying tactics you saw someone in the past use, it's about writing a message to a person. No good copywriter would have written a letter like your friend did. Unfortunately reading and copying copy doesn't make you a copywriter

 

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[AndrewNC]

^ This ^ is exactly right. Learning about copywriting from the copy threads on here (especially @SinisterLex) has allowed me to:

1.) Write my own checks and quit my shit job

and

2.) Start funding my fastlane endeavor

Great path - we all have our own and that is a great way to go.

this is just kind f my thoughts right now - knowing I did that same approach in the past.

With tie Fastlane endevour - what if you hire someone like Lex to do te copy for you?

And focus on bigger growth aspects of your business?

Both ways work - but this latter way is how im working on my business now

 

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[splok]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the original post was a pretty great piece of copy

telling stories and creating that positive emotional experience

Sounds like really good copywriting goals to me...

 

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[Envision]

A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year. You've blown what I said out of proportion. "learning copy" is learning writing essentially. People on these forums should be hiring from the Freelance market for their copy, not encouraging people to work for them as @SinisterLex has been doing.

@Supa. The hours make banking shit. The work, while redundant at times, is far from "boring" I promise you. You've been spending too much time making other people rich writing their copy obviously.

Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy. Back to work.

This had me dying: A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year.

Ok Bro.

Who's to say that there is any one way to go about being an entrepreneur?

I read through your introduction thread (https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...n-in-nyc-and-read-mjs-book.63583/#post-495558) that was posted 4 and a half months ago and I really dont think you would "have surpassed this in salary alone easy".

To be honest with the tone and attitude you display through your posts and introduction thread I think you have alot of personal development to do before ever even getting close to achieving any level of success.. but who cares what I think right?

"I bombed my last semester at college yet took the job anyways, they never knew and never found out. I let myself get fired"

" I'd show up late, I disrespected my boss (a real F*ckface anyhow), and started walking out of his office mid-meetings amid tensions. I desperately started interviewing again via phone and in-person. I wanted to get back on Wall Street even if I had to build my way up via mid/back office. That didn't happen, I was fired before it did"

"Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy."

The way you speak is as though you already know what you're doing and that it's beneath you to learn essential skills that make a true entrepreneur. You seem to think that you obviously cant be a freelancer to be an entrepreneur because you're working for other people and thats not entrepreneur... But there are so many ways to spin copywriting into a business and make millions copywriting.. Dan kennedy, John Carlton, Gary Halbert.

I just came in here to say copywriting isnt bull shit, you should understand it and what makes it good, and shit you might even want to do it as a freelance gig to develop the skill. You can also get a job working for someone who does what you want to do, either way there's no one way to be an entrepreneur. You define your own path.

Oh, and just to put you to sleep.

 

[Lex DeVille]

not encouraging people to work for them as @@SinisterLex has been doing.

[HASHTAG]#ignoredforever[/HASHTAG] good luck in your pursuits.

 

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[csalvato]

You're kind of an aggressive and argumentative one aren't ya.

Location: New York City

Being a native of NYC, my experience has shown that New Yorkers tend to:

• Think they are never wrong
• Think they know everything
• Hate everyone else that isn't in their circle of friends. Often, they hate their friends too.
• Make sure to let everyone know the three preceding facts

This is especially true of most people in the banking industry, and gets proportionally worse with their banking salary.

Interesting fact: The research of Dr. Sapolsky of Stanford shows that New Yorkers are part of the reason why being in NYC causes a spike in Cortisol. (Source: Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805073698/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20)

Don't take it personally @Growth & Learn.

@Cyriex makes some great points...but after reflecting on them, I don't really think they are sound or valid. I would post why, but I have a feeling that would just make him angry, and not really result in a meaningful discussion.

 

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[AndrewNC]

BOOM.

*drops mic*

Picks mic back up, hands it to you, so you can go sing!

 

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[Growth & Learn]

Wow, I had no idea you were so butthurt over that GOLD thread, a thread which I marked GOLD.

I would go into detail about WHY it was marked GOLD but what's the point, you've made up your mind that any Slowlane or "trade for time" endeavor is one gigantic waste of time, even if you're 17 years old with zero skills, zero money, and zero experience.

Great copywriting techniques are simply tools for getting your message across. It doesn't need to be done in a douchey way. Most people do it in a used car salesmen way but they miss the point. It's an art form and a study of the human psyche on the highest level.

If copywriting doesn't work then I've got a big pile of money to give back. I also have thousands of customers just by luck.

I'll also tell my employees, contractors they no longer have a job because it's just not working.

 

[The Grind]

Isnt copy shifting away a bit from the BS at this point? Just talk like a normal person. You can still incite a emotional response without the typical spam copy like "with just one simple secret". Im sure there are people that fall for that stuff still. But I think more and more people see right through all that junk for what it is, spam speech. Makes the bullshit alarm ring in your head. If I see people writing in that manner about a product it devalues the product to me. I think its more likely they are selling a shitty product with "fancy" copy.

Have a good valuable product. Convey your message by speaking like a normal human and not a internet used car salesman.

Shitty copywriters and people who know nothing about copywriting THINK that copywriting sounds like "spammy BS that will ring the BS alarm in peoples heads".

If copywriting sounds spammy or bs. Then the person who wrote that, is NOT copywriter, they're a wanna be copywriter. Which is why their copy sucks shit.

People who write that spammy nonsense think that "1 simple trick to get rich" is effective copy. And there's so much of that, people think that's what copy is...

Go read the rolls royce ad... you can't tell it's copy, it doesn't have an ounce of "spammyness" or "BS".

P.S. If you don't know what the rolls royce ad is... then you have no business commenting on anything related to copywriting. Because there's only 1 rolls ad that should pop in your head.

P.P.S Have a nice day.

 

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[Growth & Learn]

Yeah, bro, you did put me to sleep. But not for the reasons you think. Do me a favor. Find me one person making the money these guys did off of a Freelance website. All these guys you mentioned made green offering a myriad of during services from coaching to authoring books. Learning copy is bullshit. If you can write, you can write copy. These 17 year old victims you all keep opining over should probably have found a Freelance forum, not an Entrepreneurship forum if you're so against the "bores of 9-5". Your YouTube example is just piss weak.

@Growth & Learn I was employed. I was making more money than yourself. Had I been a good sheeple and lasted to bonus time....Different convo. Revenues aren't profit. $1mm over 5 years with several "companies". Yeah, you're doing something wrong. Keep believing. See you on eLance - writing my copy.

@csalvato Radical transparency is great. My points are valid since they assault the simple fact that this Freelance lifestyle is being glorified as Fastlane. Everything Demarco said here contradicts what's in his book which is very disappointing.

@RHL I'd rather make a million. Make 5% ROI per year having that million spread out across Index funds, ETFs, and high yield bonds. That's $50K of free money per year. People can get by on less. If you're traveling and building brand equity in any company you have my respect. Your comments about banking are inaccurate. Hours are shot and pay isn't what it was, but still higher than what these clowns are pitching me on. Coincidentally, I'll be doing the very thing you mention soon but only because my actual company is doing as well as it is and I'm in a position to work from anywhere.

I think the consensus is that this became a Freelance Forum. Odesk/eLance/Freelancer will not make any of you rich. End of.

I'm going to start ignoring this rookie. I can guarantee this guy is full of it. He got fired 4 and a half months ago from his 1st job out of college and now his company is "doing well" and spouting criticism of millionaires on the fast lane forum....come on bro. You can't hustle a hustler.

Instead of criticizing everything (which I'm sure is the reason you got fired and continue to burn bridges) you should eat some humble pie and learn. There are lots of people here more experienced than you.

Last thing I'll say and then I'm going back to earning money tonight...instead of wasting my time with a newbie who has attitude issues.... it's obvious from every word you type and your outlook that you lack sales and relationship building skills.

You'll need both of those skills to build a real business.

Post a link to your business so we can see what you're up to.

 

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