What is the best way to hire a (good) software developer?

[DougRMR]

Hey guys. I'm currently talking to some freelance app developers to help me create an uber-like app. I've talked to about 5 now and while they have good portfolios, I still have my doubts in pulling the trigger (we haven't even discussed cost yet). I am very aware of how expensive app creation is so if I'm going to invest into a developer, I want to make sure I'm spending my money right.

1. What questions can I ask to weed out the developers that are worth it?

2. Just how much exactly is the ballpark to develop an uber-like app?

3. Is hiring freelance app developers even worth it?

4. Anything I should know before I get into this? I'm very naive in the app developing space

Right now, I'm only seeing the upfront costs and potential market. As of now, this has been my first idea ever that truly meets all the CENTS criteria and so far I have never seen an app in my country for this. The need is very high, especially compared to other companies providing awful customer service in this space. The only commandment I see it could lag on is the Control commandment, in the sense that I don't know any heavy coding so I can't roll up my sleeves and get to work if/when the app develops any bugs. To cover the costs I'm working a part time job and in web design.

Any feedback and suggestion is more than welcome.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Jon L]

My company develops apps, so I know a bit about the process. Here's my answers to your questions, along with some thoughts to consider

1. What questions can I ask to weed out the developers that are worth it?
If you're not a developer, its almost impossible to weed out bad technical skills
That said, developing is an exercise in logic. They need to think clearly, and they need to be able to quickly figure out what the most important parts of a project are, and then formulate a plan to address those parts that is simple and flexible. See what they put on your proposal, and determine how logical it is. Do they address your business needs or are they just 'order taking.'


2. Just how much exactly is the ballpark to develop an uber-like app?
Uber has spent hundreds of millions if not billions on their app. Good luck.
Your cost to develop something simple would be in the 30-50K (USD) range, based on the ideas I present below


3. Is hiring freelance app developers even worth it?
I wouldn't hire just a developer unless you have managed a software project yourself. You are very likely to have parts of the project fail outright if you manage it yourself.

4. Anything I should know before I get into this? I'm very naive in the app developing space
That is not a good basis to develop an app.


Two more thoughts:
1) Developing the app is a small percentage of what it will take to make this business a success. Even if you could copy-paste Uber's app and infrastructure, you still need to get drivers, get people to use the app, and deal with regulatory BS that the incumbants are likely to throw your way
2) Focus on 'fake' automation. Don't automatically match up drivers with riders. Don't automatically calculate fares based on real-time demand. etc etc etc. Have a human on the back-end that does that stuff. The app can look like it happens automatically, but in the background, an actual human is calling the shots
Why? Two reasons: 1) that stuff is incredibly expensive and difficult to code. 2) You need to get a handle on what is going on in your system first before you automate things. Sure, this stuff works for Uber, but they're not you and they're not operating in your country/culture. There's nothing like touching the problem itself to make you come up with a creative solution to it.

 

[DougRMR]

My company develops apps, so I know a bit about the process. Here's my answers to your questions, along with some thoughts to consider

1. What questions can I ask to weed out the developers that are worth it?
If you're not a developer, its almost impossible to weed out bad technical skills
That said, developing is an exercise in logic. They need to think clearly, and they need to be able to quickly figure out what the most important parts of a project are, and then formulate a plan to address those parts that is simple and flexible. See what they put on your proposal, and determine how logical it is. Do they address your business needs or are they just 'order taking.'


2. Just how much exactly is the ballpark to develop an uber-like app?
Uber has spent hundreds of millions if not billions on their app. Good luck.
Your cost to develop something simple would be in the 30-50K (USD) range, based on the ideas I present below


3. Is hiring freelance app developers even worth it?
I wouldn't hire just a developer unless you have managed a software project yourself. You are very likely to have parts of the project fail outright if you manage it yourself.

4. Anything I should know before I get into this? I'm very naive in the app developing space
That is not a good basis to develop an app.

Thank you for the feedback, man. That being said, then: where could I even start or what are the steps to this? Should I start to learn coding myself? Hire a software project director? I really do think there is a need in this space, especially considering the awful service other companies do of this. There is this type of app in the US but not where I live.

Two more thoughts:
1) Developing the app is a small percentage of what it will take to make this business a success. Even if you could copy-paste Uber's app and infrastructure, you still need to get drivers, get people to use the app, and deal with regulatory BS that the incumbants are likely to throw your way
2) Focus on 'fake' automation. Don't automatically match up drivers with riders. Don't automatically calculate fares based on real-time demand. etc etc etc. Have a human on the back-end that does that stuff. The app can look like it happens automatically, but in the background, an actual human is calling the shots
Why? Two reasons: 1) that stuff is incredibly expensive and difficult to code. 2) You need to get a handle on what is going on in your system first before you automate things. Sure, this stuff works for Uber, but they're not you and they're not operating in your country/culture. There's nothing like touching the problem itself to make you come up with a creative solution to it.

Thank you for this.

Not gonna lie, this is pretty disheartening. But I did want a reality check. I don't even have $30k in liquid cash. I understand the heavy lifting that needs to be done for selling/getting the drivers and customers. That I can wrap my head around. But would there be any hope at all for me in terms of developing the app?

4. Anything I should know before I get into this? I'm very naive in the app developing space
That is not a good basis to develop an app.

I know it isn't. The basis is the need I see, something with which I have struggled a lot first hand.

 

[Bing]

As a software engineer who has been pursued by Google, Microsoft and Amazon before starting my Fastlane journey you're not going to like the answers, but here's the truth:

1. What questions can I ask to weed out the developers that are worth it?

In my opinion it's more important to see how a developer thinks than answering some BS coding trivia. Project Euler has some good programming exercises which your dev should be able to talk you through. If they cannot communicate to you what they're doing and why, then it doesn't matter how good a program they can write; you'll never be able to communicate what you want to them anyway.

2. Just how much exactly is the ballpark to develop an uber-like app?

You might be able to do it for under $1 billion dollars. Seriously. Because the code of "the app" is only 5% of it. What most people fail to realize is an app is just an interface into a bigger system. The app asks the server who the closest driver is, does route optimization, queries a mapping platform with live traffic, then dispatches to the driver apps (remember: passenger app and driver app are two different apps entirely!). This doesn't even begin to discuss the infrastructure design or cost.

3. Is hiring freelance app developers even worth it?

To do what? To re-build Uber from scratch? No way, you'd need a team of full-time, very good devs and at least a few months of funding runway. Or a partner to share equity with if you cannot afford it. But I hire freelancers all the time for specific, targeted tasks (ex: "here is a UI mock, here are the API docs to support it, please build"). If you cannot specifically enumerate what you need the developer cannot build it. It would be like asking an architect to "build a house" without blueprints. Actually a lot like that, since architects also don't run electrical, plumbing, do the framing, drywall, etc. Hence why systems engineers, software architects, QA, etc. are all separate jobs.

4. Anything I should know before I get into this? I'm very naive in the app developing space

Start small. Get an MVP. Prove the market wants what you have. By leading with "an Uber-like app" you sound like you've set your eyes on making a billion dollars before you make your first thousand. If you really want to get into the dev/app space, it might be worth taking a few intro programming courses (there are plenty online for free) so you'll at least be able to communicate and understand your employees/contractors/partners if you decide you want to go that route. Otherwise, you're right, you'll have little Control.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Maybe check out “The 7 Day Startup” by Dan Norris. It’s where I came across the concept of product-founder fit. Can YOU launch in 7 days? If you can’t, then maybe pick something where you can?

 

[ProcessPro]

When I waas thinking of building a listing site, I found that there were services that would make it easy for me to deploy a listing site using their system vs building one myself from scratch. Maybe such exists for the Uber/ride sharing world? Did a quick search and found this.

Look around a bit and see what you can find. Could be a start till you validate your idea, and build cash flow to really build your own system and brand it.

 

[Jon L]

Thank you for the feedback, man. That being said, then: where could I even start or what are the steps to this? Should I start to learn coding myself? Hire a software project director? I really do think there is a need in this space, especially considering the awful service other companies do of this. There is this type of app in the US but not where I live.


Thank you for this.

Not gonna lie, this is pretty disheartening. But I did want a reality check. I don't even have $30k in liquid cash. I understand the heavy lifting that needs to be done for selling/getting the drivers and customers. That I can wrap my head around. But would there be any hope at all for me in terms of developing the app?


I know it isn't. The basis is the need I see, something with which I have struggled a lot first hand.

I've built systems for people that didn't have much money. It is an exercise in frustration for everyone involved. Software has no end of possibilities. In a new business, the sky is the limit, and its incredibly hard to know what you need up front. I could go on and on about the problems. As a development company, I wouldn't touch a project like this with a ten foot pole. The client needs to be able to easily afford tossing 30-50k at this without worry. They also need to be reasonable about expectations, something that doesn't happen when you're tight on funds.

Be careful when you talk to developers about this project. "Oh yeah, we can build something that will automate that, no problem." Well, there are ALWAYS problems with this kind of automation. What happens when a car breaks down? How about when there's no cell phone service? What about all the flavors of iOS and Android? What if your server crashes, will you just lose all that money, or does each app have a local database? What if the user hasn't given all the appropriate permissions to the app? How do you handle bogus driver reviews? What if the GPS signal disappears because of canyons/trees/buildings? and on and on and on. Developers will say, 'no problem, this is a 2 month project. I'll have a beta for you in 45 days.' 45 days rolls around and they're only 1/4 done because they keep running into edge cases they think they need to deal with in software. Do they actually need to code around it, or should they have talked to you about it first? Do you know how to make those kinds of decisions so that the resulting business system is manageable and adaptable?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Aurum79]

Hey, CTO & Software engineer from France here, I can make you a quote for your app for free, no strings attached, you can work with me or not but it will help you see the scope of your project.

 

[OverByte]

Jon gave good answers but i think i can be more to the point.

Based on your answers you need help to pull this off. Get a technical cofounder, someone you know and trust who knows their stuff. They handle the tech oversight.

You also need more money. Building mvp is just step 1.

Focus on solving those two problems or move on to another idea.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Hey guys. I'm currently talking to some freelance app developers to help me create an uber-like app. I've talked to about 5 now and while they have good portfolios, I still have my doubts in pulling the trigger (we haven't even discussed cost yet). I am very aware of how expensive app creation is so if I'm going to invest into a developer, I want to make sure I'm spending my money right.

1. What questions can I ask to weed out the developers that are worth it?

2. Just how much exactly is the ballpark to develop an uber-like app?

3. Is hiring freelance app developers even worth it?

4. Anything I should know before I get into this? I'm very naive in the app developing space

Right now, I'm only seeing the upfront costs and potential market. As of now, this has been my first idea ever that truly meets all the CENTS criteria and so far I have never seen an app in my country for this. The need is very high, especially compared to other companies providing awful customer service in this space. The only commandment I see it could lag on is the Control commandment, in the sense that I don't know any heavy coding so I can't roll up my sleeves and get to work if/when the app develops any bugs. To cover the costs I'm working a part time job and in web design.

Any feedback and suggestion is more than welcome.

Have you tested demand yet? Have you tested product-market-price fit? You shouldn't spend a dime on development until you know that people will pay for what you're building.

You can easily spend tens of thousands of dollars on developers, to say nothing of wasting money on bad developers (there are lots of highly paid bad developers).

I'd recommend taking this if you're interested in SaaS: SaaS Masterclass

2. Just how much exactly is the ballpark to develop an uber-like app?

Also, why would you want to make an uber like app? Aside from all of the work that will take, they were horribly unprofitable for years before they recently started turning a profit.

Also, I'm not trying to rain on your parade about starting a SaaS. I think that SaaS is a great business model with a lot of opportunity and few barriers to entry than many people realize. I'm just trying to save you time and money.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[DougRMR]

Have you tested demand yet? Have you tested product-market-price fit? You shouldn't spend a dime on development until you know that people will pay for what you're building.

You can easily spend tens of thousands of dollars on developers, to say nothing of wasting money on bad developers (there are lots of highly paid bad developers).

I'd recommend taking this if you're interested in SaaS: SaaS Masterclass



Also, why would you want to make an uber like app? Aside from all of the work that will take, they were horribly unprofitable for years before they recently started turning a profit.

Also, I'm not trying to rain on your parade about starting a SaaS. I think that SaaS is a great business model with a lot of opportunity and few barriers to entry than many people realize. I'm just trying to save you time and money.

I get it man, and I'm thankful. I wasn't exactly rosy eyed about all of this, so I did want the wakeup call.

I do not know anything other than that there's a need and that I've talked to people with that exact same need.

The reason I say uber-like is because it's an easy app concept many can wrap their head around. I don't mean for it to be exactly the same as uber, it's a completely different niche than picking up people and driving them around places. In fact, if I follow competitor's footsteps, a yearly payment plan is not out of the picture.

 

[DougRMR]

Jon gave good answers but i think i can be more to the point.

Based on your answers you need help to pull this off. Get a technical cofounder, someone you know and trust who knows their stuff. They handle the tech oversight.

You also need more money. Building mvp is just step 1.

Focus on solving those two problems or move on to another idea.

So in a nutshell: trusted cofounder with tech knowledge and $$. Money is easier than finding a good cofounder, for sure, but this I'm realizing this is a must. Thanks

 

[DougRMR]

Hey, CTO & Software engineer from France here, I can make you a quote for your app for free, no strings attached, you can work with me or not but it will help you see the scope of your project.

I'll DM you!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[DougRMR]

When I waas thinking of building a listing site, I found that there were services that would make it easy for me to deploy a listing site using their system vs building one myself from scratch. Maybe such exists for the Uber/ride sharing world? Did a quick search and found this.

Look around a bit and see what you can find. Could be a start till you validate your idea, and build cash flow to really build your own system and brand it.

That's very very good! I saw something similar to the site you linked but didn't even put 2 and 2 together. Thanks!!

 

[pratik_mistry]

Being in the software development industry for the last 15 years, I can help you with some of the top pointers as per my experience.

1. Arrange a Q&A Session with developers: Your in-house employees (especially from the IT department and those who would be acting as project managers from your side) should be involved in interviewing the developers you plan to hire.

2. Conduct an interview: The developers who will be present in that interview, you can ask them questions about their skills, previous projects, experience, and more. Do keep in mind that their expertise and your requirements must match when you go out to hire software developers.

3. What to ask? : Depending on whether you have the technical knowledge or not, you may ask questions related to hard skills (technical issues related to programming and other phases of software development) or soft skills (to evaluate their qualities, strengths, weaknesses, communication expertise and more) or both.

4. What to Evaluate? : From their abilities, track records, and soft skills, you need to evaluate things like how efficient they are in meeting deadlines, communicating with team members, solving problems, responsiveness and reporting, and so on.

 

[nathandiaz]

Hi @DougRMR
If you're looking to hire a great software developer, consider a few key steps. Test their coding skills with practical exercises and review their previous projects. During interviews, delve into their problem-solving approach. Equally important is their ability to communicate effectively and fit within your team's dynamics.

Best of luck with your search!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Michal__]

Test project/task. (paid of course, if completed)

Also, freelancers NEED daily deadlines. (if possible with the specific work - if not then just daily showcase of progress)