What do people mean by learning sales?

[Deleted126160]

I always hear or read from successful entrepreneurs that beginners should learn sales. But I don't really get it, how do I learn sales if I still have nothing to sell and am in the process of learning a monetizable skill? Thanks.

 

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[The-J]

Find something to sell & sell it. Easiest way to do that is to find a commission sales job. They literally give you something to sell, they tell you what to say, they tell you who to call/where to go/where to stand.

@Fox has another option: sell websites. Loads of companies need websites because theirs don't make them much money. Check out Web School: it might seem like a web development course but it's actually a sales course. Hundreds of success stories. He's done a great job building a supportive environment full of experts who are willing to help the newbies. (I'm not a graduate but you can just take a look around the forum, there are people who have used the knowledge to build their businesses)

You start by being bad at it. You get good at sales by selling. The more you do (assuming you pay attention to how you do it and aren't just going through the motions) the better you get.

 

[Deleted126160]

Find something to sell & sell it. Easiest way to do that is to find a commission sales job. They literally give you something to sell, they tell you what to say, they tell you who to call/where to go/where to stand.

@Fox has another option: sell websites. Loads of companies need websites because theirs don't make them much money. Check out Web School: it might seem like a web development course but it's actually a sales course. Hundreds of success stories. He's done a great job building a supportive environment full of experts who are willing to help the newbies. (I'm not a graduate but you can just take a look around the forum, there are people who have used the knowledge to build their businesses)

You start by being bad at it. You get good at sales by selling. The more you do (assuming you pay attention to how you do it and aren't just going through the motions) the better you get.

Thank you for answering, it all makes sense now! I thought it was something I should learn even before learning a skill like coding websites etc.

 

[Fox]

I always hear or read from successful entrepreneurs that beginners should learn sales. But I don't really get it, how do I learn sales if I still have nothing to sell and am in the process of learning a monetizable skill? Thanks.

From the top..

You want freedom, and a good way to get it is to have a business that prints cash.

Most successful businesses have two sides:
- the "thing" that the business makes or does
- and then how you make money from "the thing"

A business can be good at doing/making the thing, but not good at actually making money from it.
This makes the skill of sales important - you need to get customers to understand and pick your business.

But - you need both sides. Don't just head off learning sales without an actual business model to connect it to.
Otherwise you end up in a call centre selling phone plans.

TLDR:
- Start figuring out how to do or create something a paying customer will want
- Then start working on the sales skills to have the market engage with your offer

 

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[Fox]

I always hear or read from successful entrepreneurs that beginners should learn sales. But I don't really get it, how do I learn sales if I still have nothing to sell and am in the process of learning a monetizable skill? Thanks.

Some forum examples...

"People need their lawn cut"
- You start the business
- You learn how to market, sell, and franchise it - like @Johnny boy

"People need an easier way to make computer animated graphics"
- You develop an amazing piece of software
- You build a team, you create an amazing offer, you make it highly sellable - like @Ravens_Shadow

"People want to rent houses in nice places"
- You buy amazing properties in great locations
- You set things up in a way to make sure you are getting eager renters and full bookings - like @biophase

What is interesting is that sales usually feeds into all areas of a business - how you make choices, how you decide what to work on or build, how you build your team and your brand etc.

It isn't just knocking on doors or cold calling (although it can be).

So... it is as much of a mindset as a skill.
You want to make things people want to buy. And then do the work to have them actually buy it.

I recommend you have something to do first though - otherwise studying it can be a huge time-waster.
It helps a lot to have something real to apply it to as you learn about it.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I always hear or read from successful entrepreneurs that beginners should learn sales. But I don't really get it, how do I learn sales if I still have nothing to sell and am in the process of learning a monetizable skill? Thanks.

In my opinion, which may be unpopular around here but is informed by 12 years in business...

Sales [as a skill] isn't that important.

Great products and services are often "sold" via marketing alone. My own service, I no longer sell, and I have no interest to build a sales team. Everything is "sold" via my website. People just come and buy.

I think beginner entrepreneurs should learn how to manage innovation and build a great business. Which really means how to figure out the assumptions they're making with their business model, and then find fast way to test them in the market, so they can get market insights and refine their business model. Having a solid business model is a whole lot more important than sales.

Usually it starts with a vision. You want to see some changes in the marketplace which you think will be beneficial. From this, based on available data and educated guesses (assumptions), you form a strategy. Problem: people are getting scammed. Assumption: they want to find a way to see which business is a scam. Assumption: The ideal way to do this is to allow and encourage customers to rate all businesses in a directory and leave reviews. Assumption: Customers will care enough to leave reviews. And so on. All those assumptions inform your strategy.

You need to test them, so that you can see which are real and which are not. If all your assumptions are correct, then you just need to execute well. On the other hand, if your assumptions are faulty, then the best execution won't get you anywhere.

Focusing on sales as a skill, as far as I'm concerned is retarded. Sales is only useful if you're trying to swim upstream but why would you be?

Focus on business model. Then positioning. Then marketing. Then sales.

I only realized this when I saw the difference that a solid business model makes. You don't even need to sell anymore. Whereas with a weak business model, you need to be an absolutely amazing sales person, and even then you may fail.

 

[Saad Khan]

I only realized this when I saw the difference that a solid business model makes. You don't even need to sell anymore. Whereas with a weak business model, you need to be an absolutely amazing sales person, and even then you may fail.

Like when you started hitting $50k+/mo this week? I didn't know sales and marketing were different things until I started learning psychology behind why people buy. I still am in the dark about positioning tho. From what I understand, positioning is like occupying a certain feeling your customer feels and linking it with your business.

 

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[cikatomo]

Thank you for answering, it all makes sense now! I thought it was something I should learn even before learning a skill like coding websites etc.

Honestly, I think you should learn how to sell before anything. It's easy to hire a coder and learn how to code along then it is to get a project. I personally think I have wasted to much time coding, in coding it's always something to do, I can tinker all day, but at the end it doesn't create business. Finding people in need and providing solution is what creates a business.

 

[cikatomo]

In my opinion, which may be unpopular around here but is informed by 12 years in business...

Sales [as a skill] isn't that important.

Great products and services are often "sold" via marketing alone. My own service, I no longer sell, and I have no interest to build a sales team. Everything is "sold" via my website. People just come and buy.

I think beginner entrepreneurs should learn how to manage innovation and build a great business. Which really means how to figure out the assumptions they're making with their business model, and then find fast way to test them in the market, so they can get market insights and refine their business model. Having a solid business model is a whole lot more important than sales.

Usually it starts with a vision. You want to see some changes in the marketplace which you think will be beneficial. From this, based on available data and educated guesses (assumptions), you form a strategy. Problem: people are getting scammed. Assumption: they want to find a way to see which business is a scam. Assumption: The ideal way to do this is to allow and encourage customers to rate all businesses in a directory and leave reviews. Assumption: Customers will care enough to leave reviews. And so on. All those assumptions inform your strategy.

You need to test them, so that you can see which are real and which are not. If all your assumptions are correct, then you just need to execute well. On the other hand, if your assumptions are faulty, then the best execution won't get you anywhere.

Focusing on sales as a skill, as far as I'm concerned is retarded. Sales is only useful if you're trying to swim upstream but why would you be?

Focus on business model. Then positioning. Then marketing. Then sales.

I only realized this when I saw the difference that a solid business model makes. You don't even need to sell anymore. Whereas with a weak business model, you need to be an absolutely amazing sales person, and even then you may fail.

Is your view biased because now you have a developed good product after 12 years? Did you start with a good product right from the start or it took years of improving the small details?

What about those who are starting from zero, wants to build a website among so many website providers? Product itself has no difference than any other out there. Do you think they should rely on their 'product' as it is at the moment or go out and actively seek people currently in the market for website to get some money so they can actually invest and improve their product?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Is your view biased because now you have a developed good product after 12 years? Did you start with a good product right from the start or it took years of improving the small details?

What about those who are starting from zero, wants to build a website among so many website providers? Product itself has no difference than any other out there. Do you think they should rely on their 'product' as it is at the moment or go out and actively seek people currently in the market for website to get some money so they can actually invest and improve their product?

Funnily enough my experiment above that you quoted failed — I ended up going back to sales 2 months later.

Selling basic websites is imo a very tough and unrewarding job. Your only chance is to go local. I have yet to hear of someone building a web design business formed from “basic Wordpress templates” who scaled without local clients.

If you can create complex websites on the other hand, then you can sell 1 a piece for $70K+. I have clients doing that. But that’s not the kind of thing you’ll do by hiring freelancers off Upwork lol or because you learned to buy a Wordpress template and customize it lol

But most people who sell websites sell to small businesses. Small businesses are broke and don’t see the need of a website. They want to pay $200 and get website up and running LOL. Speak to a doctor — they’re like “oh yeah, I paid $200 and the website is up” (very proud because they got a good bargain - LOL).

 

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[cikatomo]

Funnily enough my experiment above that you quoted failed — I ended up going back to sales 2 months later.

Selling basic websites is imo a very tough and unrewarding job. Your only chance is to go local. I have yet to hear of someone building a web design business formed from “basic Wordpress templates” who scaled without local clients.

If you can create complex websites on the other hand, then you can sell 1 a piece for $70K+. I have clients doing that. But that’s not the kind of thing you’ll do by hiring freelancers off Upwork lol or because you learned to buy a Wordpress template and customize it lol

But most people who sell websites sell to small businesses. Small businesses are broke and don’t see the need of a website. They want to pay $200 and get website up and running LOL. Speak to a doctor — they’re like “oh yeah, I paid $200 and the website is up” (very proud because they got a good bargain - LOL).

Thanks for the advices, I was talking to a guy on reddit and he says he makes good money selling subscription based websites to small businesses with cold calls.

You have come back to sales? Do you know have a sales team doing outbound reach?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I was talking to a guy on reddit and he says he makes good money selling subscription based websites to small businesses with cold calls

Let me guess, you came across https://www.reddit.com/user/Citrous_Oyster/

The guy is broke, works a lot and barely makes any money. I wouldn’t call that a business, there’s a reason why he does it part-time. If it was so good he’d be doing it full time, instead of having a day job.

Do you know have a sales team doing outbound reach?

No, marketing generates the calls and qualifies people. Sales is mostly about closing them.

 

[Matt Sun]

Let me guess, you came across https://www.reddit.com/user/Citrous_Oyster/

The guy is broke, works a lot and barely makes any money. I wouldn’t call that a business, there’s a reason why he does it part-time. If it was so good he’d be doing it full time, instead of having a day job.


No, marketing generates the calls and qualifies people. Sales is mostly about closing them.

What are niches that demand $70k+ websites ? If it's not too sensible to share.

As I'm learning React and Databases/back-end I think selling web apps instead of web sites could be the way to go.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

What are niches that demand $70k+ websites ? If it's not too sensible to share.

As I'm learning React and Databases/back-end I think selling web apps instead of web sites could be the way to go.

Any niche if the company is doing $50M-$150M in revenue.

Good niches tend to be: venture capital, private equity, universities, biotech, pharma, healthcare, finance/banking, funded startups.

Try to build websites for prestige rather than overpromise on sales/results. As in “you need a website that confirms to anyone who sees it that you’re the leader in biotech” rather than “I’ll grow your sales with a new website” type of thing.

You’ll almost never sell such a website to a local service business. People who work with their hands tend to be cheap. Try to sell a $70K website to @Johnny boy — he’ll laugh at you.

 

[constant]

Let me guess, you came across https://www.reddit.com/user/Citrous_Oyster/

The guy is broke, works a lot and barely makes any money. I wouldn’t call that a business, there’s a reason why he does it part-time. If it was so good he’d be doing it full time, instead of having a day job.

Do you think it's a better alternative to classic freelancing though? Since that's what it pretty much is, the difference being that there's MRR.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Do you think it's a better alternative to classic freelancing though? Since that's what it pretty much is, the difference being that there's MRR.

Not really – I'm a fan of a few big clients over a ton of small clients. The more clients you have, the more problems, I can tell you that from experience.

 

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[cikatomo]

Let me guess, you came across https://www.reddit.com/user/Citrous_Oyster/

The guy is broke, works a lot and barely makes any money. I wouldn’t call that a business, there’s a reason why he does it part-time. If it was so good he’d be doing it full time, instead of having a day job.


No, marketing generates the calls and qualifies people. Sales is mostly about closing them.

Lol yes, I think he is the one. You seem to know him better than me, thanks for the reality check

 

[cikatomo]

What are niches that demand $70k+ websites ? If it's not too sensible to share.

As I'm learning React and Databases/back-end I think selling web apps instead of web sites could be the way to go.

The right client is the answer. I know for a fact that some establishments pay 100k for a website. Not app, but website with content. Companies that have dedicated budget to spend on such things.