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OFF-TOPIC Tin Foil Hat Time: Are Aliens Here?

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MJ DeMarco

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if id been fascinated by dinosaurs or bees or football I would have thought the world was over flowing with news about those subjects
I'm not talking about ads or Taboola crap.

My causal interest doesn't instantly create articles on Newsweek, Yahoo Finance, and other websites where one would expect zero articles on the subject.

For example...


One wouldn't expect to visit Newsweek and find 1) A UFO article and 2) A long-time ex-Senator going on the record.

I don't think so because the distance needed to travel between solar systems is measured in light years.
That's a human based reality founded on our limited knowledge of what we know today, and based on two-dimensional, linear thinking. (A to B is 20 miles!)

Do we have a full understanding of physics or is our understanding incomplete?
If you think human beings have a "full understanding" of physics I believe you're giving us too much credit. We're infants playing with dynamite (in the case of nuclear weapons) ... I'm guessing our "understanding" is probably about 1%.

I'm pretty sure I saw a UFO when I was like 7 or 8, it was right in front of my old house and it had a triangle shape (similar to the ones in "The Independence Day", but not quite). My older brother was with me so I'm sure I wasn't imagining things. This happened in Santiago, Chile.
Day or night?

This Bob Lazar guy has been keeping up this jig for over 30 years?
His business was raided by the FBI a day after he went off the record about Element 115 (if u believe the documentary is being truthful and not dramatizing) -- to which his story has been consistent for 30+ years. There's other elements of plausibility to his assertion, or he's the most patient liar in history whose long game isn't a few years, but his entire life. It is only now (30 years later) in which his story has gained more traction.

I found that to work in his favor.

The lack of documentation to seemingly simple requests, against.

But then again, others who have had UFO assertions in the government have also had records seemingly disappear.

I'm on both sides of the net w/respect to Lazar, like a game of tennis... back, forth, back, forth....
 

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ChrisV

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The lack of documentation to seemingly simple requests, against.
Yea but check out the last video clip I posted. I think he gives a reasonable enough explaination for that. You only have to watch a minute of the video starting at 1:17:21

Link
 

loop101

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I have no idea if Aliens have ever visited Earth, but I would be shocked if they did not exist. From what I've read, not long after the Earth cooled enough for there to be a fossil record, there was a fossil record. I do tend to agree with MJ, it seems like we are being prepped for something.


"The age of the Earth is about 4.54 billion years; the earliest undisputed evidence of life on Earth dates from at least 3.5 billion years ago. There is evidence that life began much earlier."

"According to biologist Stephen Blair Hedges, "If life arose relatively quickly on Earth … then it could be common in the universe.""
 

SteveO

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Aliens are bound by the same laws of physics we are bound by... So, I guess my answer would be a question... Do we have a full understanding of physics or is our understanding incomplete?
I believe that we are missing a shit-ton of information...
 

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Sightings of UFOs have gone back literally decades, from what we can gather from photographic evidence and eye witness accounts. One of the most famous of which being the battle of Los Angeles, in which the military spent a couple hours shelling a UFO, which can be seen by its outline in a black and white photo, thinking it was an enemy blimp. Nothing at the time could have withstood so much assault, and yet... they couldn't bring down the unknown craft.

More recently, various military organizations across the planet have released radar data and pilot accounts of encounters with highly advanced air craft that execute maneuvers that, by all accounts, are outside the realm of known engineering.

Just this past year our very own federal government, right around Christmas, revealed the existence of a program to study this phenomenon. They admitted that it was real and that they have no idea what it is. It is almost certainly a craft of some kind, with unknown origin, operating on unknown technology. It is claimed that this technology does not belong to us.

Adding all this up, we are left with two possibilities:

Either a) the technology is terrestrial in origin or b) it is extraterrestrial in origin. Each of these assertions requires a certain set of conditions to be true.

If a), then we have to believe that the technology has been developed in secret for decades, and that the people who developed it have not spoken out about it. The resources required to develop such technology would be immense, and the US does indeed having a missing defense budget of order 10 trillion or so... but this says nothing of the intellectual capital to design and perfect the technology. While the money doesn't speak, people certainly do. Why has nobody come forward to claim credit for the advances in aerospace engineering and physics? How can you keep thousands of people quiet for 70+ years? This stretches the imagination, to say the least.

What's even worse is that if you accept the assertion by our government that the technology isn't ours, then you have to also accept that a foreign government did it while spending a fraction of the amount that we do. Even more unbelievable is that this government would make such a leap and then not announce it to the world. Both Russia and China were recently flexing their hypersonic weapons, and the doomsday nuclear torpedo (in the case of Russia), heck even the Tsar Bomba back in the 60s... so there is precedent for our adversaries being keen to announce their strategic advantages. Why would they keep such a leap frog to themselves, for decades?

None of this is impossible, but in my mind it all stretches the limits of plausibility. Keeping thousands of people silent for decades while secretly developing technology that has no parallel in known science, and then not announcing that strategic advantage to the world is simply too much to believe.

if b) then all we have to accept is that there are far more advanced civilizations out there and that they have developed technology outside of our current understanding. Given that we still have uncontacted tribes here on Earth that live in the stone age, there is a known precedent for this situation right here on this planet.

Both theories have equal explanatory power, yet theory b has fewer moving parts. Occam's razor suggests that we should adopt explanation b.

And so I have. I've never bought into the advanced government craft hypothesis, and I've been reading about this stuff since I was a young adult. While alien visitation is a difficult technical problem, it's far simpler to solve than the human problem of keeping egotistical type A scientists, let alone power mad politicians, from bragging about their accomplishments, for almost an entire century if not longer.
Actually, these ideas aren't mutually exclusive:

Option C: governments et al, are developing technology in secret, and getting active help from extra terrestrials.

Not a new theory. Old fashioned Judaism essentially holds the belief that all of the technological innovations that made civilization possible, with a heavy emphasis on killing technology, were the product of angelic (extraterrestrial anyone?) intervention.

Maybe 10,000 years ago they tried to give us enough technology to kill each other off, and now that the ice caps are melting, they're back to finish the job. :rofl:

In all seriousness, I think for sure there are either aliens here, or we're sharing the planet with another species that looks like us, but isn't actually human, and we're none-the-wiser. Why they haven't killed us all yet is beyond me, but, yeah.

Can someone get me the TMF monogrammed tinfoil hat now please?
 

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My belief is that we are not the only life-forms or consciousnesses in our universe (or outside of our universe, in the event that we are actually living in a simulation).

Whether or not we are in a simulation, our universe is so large, that it would be more remarkable if there wasn't another form of life/consciousness out there aside from us.

Mathematically speaking, as the universe's size approaches infinity, the probability that we are the only form of intelligent life approaches zero. The probability that there is more than two forms of intelligent life also goes to 100%.

In other words, to quote Sagan:

If god created the entire universe just for us, what an awful waste of space
Now the question of whether or not aliens are here on our planet...that's different. I personally think this is wholly possible, but highly improbable.

And if we are in contact with other lifeforms already, it's probably way more boring than people think.

Most lifeforms will likely not be capable of space travel at all, or would "travel" in ways we could never possibly comprehend (e.g. how the alien race works in 2001 A Space Odyssey)
 

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I take on a different view. As much as I love paranormal stuff - I love the X-Files - it is my belief that we are alone in the vastness of our universe. I know we are not supposed to talk religion so I will limit it to: I believe in God and that He designed it that way.

However, I could never rule out aliens completely. :p
 

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According to Alex Jones, the real aliens are interdimensional beings who are passing on legit scientific knowledge to secret agents who enter into contact by having their hearts stopped for half an hour and pumped full of drugs like DMT.
 

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If you think human beings have a "full understanding" of physics I believe you're giving us too much credit. We're infants playing with dynamite (in the case of nuclear weapons) ... I'm guessing our "understanding" is probably about 1%.
I didn’t actually make a claim. I asked the question not because I believed one way or the other, but because I believe it needs to be answered to complete my hypothesis. Which was:

“Basically, if they are stuck with our understanding of physics they aren’t going to be able to travel.”

I actually lean towards modern humans being egotistical beings that have not even scratched the surface of understanding.

Unfortunately, no human has proven us right... Yet.
 

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BookwormMitch

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I just want to say that part of my motivation for the fastlane is that I believe we may be able to figure out how to live forever within our lifetime and only people with a shit load of money will be able to afford it. I want to live forever so that I can live during an age where we explore the universe or aliens visit us.
 

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The double slit experiment tells us that sometimes photons behave in a manner that can be modelled as waves, and sometimes they behave in a manner that can be modelled as particles. The key distinction is modelled - they are not changing from a particle to a wave. What we have is a range of mathematical models that can be applied in different situations, where photons act in a particular way - that is not the same as saying they are a particular state.

To use that to jump to a god-based theory is no better than cavemen worshipping volcanoes because they don't understand them.

The universe is here, and we are observers of it. There is no consciousness puppeteering the universe.
No this is quantum weirdness at its height. The double slit experiment uses photographic plates to mark the passage of photons. The pattern changes from one of interference to one of multiple dots depending on if you observe it or not.

Secondly the pattern changes whether we observe the photons before they pass through the slits, or if we retrospectively look at which slit a particular photon passed through.

This is nothing to do with a god based theory at all (especially from a staunch atheist), this is simply something we have observed time and time and time (one more) and time again.

As far as the double slit experiment is concerned, we might as well be cavemen, however we're not worshipping the photons, just amazed at the duality of their state.

Anyway at the beginning of this great little video about the subject of simulation, Neil DeGrasse Tyson says it better than I.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9i_0Ty7Cg
 
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Roli

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Fermi's Paradox (and the possible solutions to it) fascinate me.

I was going to type out a long post about it but then found a video in 2 short parts (plus one that dives deeper into the great filter) that does a much better job than I would do:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhhvQGsMEc


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fQkVqno-uI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtOGPJ0URM
I think about Fermi's Paradox at least once every few weeks, and even wrote a couple of articles on the subject.

For me the simulation theory is just as good as any answer to the paradox, there are no aliens because they haven't been programmed yet.

Then again I also like the signal/time theory, in other words we and intelligent aliens appeared at such a time that the communication sphere simply hasn't reached us... although that one is a bit hard to swallow the more I think about it.

The other one is kind of a continuation of the weak Anthropic principle and that is that intelligent life is so rare that the chances of another civilisation in our galaxy is tiny and therefore the chances of spotting one in another, or one visiting, given the size of the universe, is less than miniscule.

I don't much care for the inner space theory, that a civilisation at one point of its technological advancement is bound to create virtualities and thus give up on the idea of space travel all together.

I could literally discuss this for hours, very enjoyable indeed :)
 

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First of all, allow me to say that I FREAKING love this forum. So many intelligent people. Honored to be part of the tribe

Secondly, there are aliens. And a lot more than you might think. Like other posters have already said here is that our minuscule brains can't comprehend the scale of the universe.

Suppose you see an ant crawling on your kitchen table; this ant is not capable of understanding the concept of a kitchen table merely based on scale and the fact that the entirety of the table is hidden from it. And even if it would be able to crawl down one of the table's legs, it wouldn't know what it's looking at. And those are the things it interacts with, never mind the concept of a "kitchen", a "house" or the street that house sits in.

That being said, just as some humans have boundless arrogance to assume we are the center of the universe and we are alone, what I think is that we're simply not interesting enough for a civilization that is advanced enough to reach us.

I'm a regular listener of the JRE Experience so I watched the Bob Lazar interview and I subsequently saw the documentary. It's all very one-sided so I did some digging and found this interesting article which seems to be written by someone who seems to know what he talks about somewhere last year. Interesting read

Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018
 

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MattR82

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Or maybe it's for the publicity, as he runs a couple companies that would benefit from having his name out there among the fringe.

Here's one example:


Notice the magazine and news credits in the upper right-hand corner. There's a reason those magazines and news organizations discussed Bob Lazar and it wasn't because of this company.

Imagine the number of customers he generated from that Joe Rogan interview. Just the fact that we're discussing him here!

According to his Wikipedia page, he's been arrested for aiding a prostitution ring and has had at least one bankruptcy. Long story short, this isn't just your straight-and-narrow government employee.

Lastly, if the stuff he were saying was real, he clearly had a high-level security clearance, the stuff he's discussing is clearly classified, and so he'd be violating national security laws. Yet, there seems to be no effort -- formal or otherwise -- to keep him from speaking. Sure, you can argue that this is a strategic decision by the government, but that's a stretch, in my opinion.

Back to Occam's Razor on this guy...
"Aiding a prostitution ring."

It sounds rather vague and can easily be made to sound worse than it is. Does anyone know the details? I've heard everything from him being part owner of the brothel to only setting up some kind of computer setup for them. No idea what the truth is though.
 

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ChrisV

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Anyone going? :hilarious:

I hope they get in.
It will probably end up being 6 guys in tinfoil hats going.

But seriously, this is an unbelievably dumb idea. If nothing else, Area 51 is a Nuclear testing facility. You think the government is going to let a bunch of guys from Facebook get into a place where there's potentially nuclear weapons? Good luck against those Apache helicopters they'll inevitably send in and open fire. You know, if you survive the radiation.
 

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No this is quantum weirdness at its height. The double slit experiment uses photographic plates to mark the passage of photons. The pattern changes from one of interference to one of multiple dots depending on if you observe it or not.

Secondly the pattern changes whether we observe the photons before they pass through the slits, or if we retrospectively look at which slit a particular photon passed through.

This is nothing to do with a god based theory at all (especially from a staunch atheist), this is simply something we have observed time and time and time (one more) and time again.

As far as the double slit experiment is concerned, we might as well be cavemen, however we're not worshipping the photons, just amazed at the duality of their state.
Quantum mechanics is weird, but it is also rigorous, well-established, and mathematically consistent. So I wouldn't quite say we're at the "caveman" level.

Here's a way to think about the double-slit experiment so it seems less weird. How do you "measure" something? You have to interact with the system somehow to get information in the first place. So maybe you shoot a photon at your system and let it bounce back to you. But the fact that you shot a photon into your system will have an effect on your system. As your system becomes smaller and more delicate (aka more "quantum"), any external effects (aka your "measurement") will do more damage/have a greater effect on your system. So it's not like the system knows a conscious being is trying to "peek" at it, rather you're just comparing a system with external interactions to one with no external interactions, which has more pronounced effects as you get more quantum.

Does he sound like he knows his stuff? Does he sound like someone who could potentially hold a Master's Degree from Caltech, or does he sound like someone who's winging it. The headache thing honestly raised a few red flags for me because it seems like it could be a cop out for difficult questions, but then again, the government has been known to do things like what he's saying. Does he sound like someone who could potentially be an actual physicist?
I think if I were ever handed a lump of element 115 and told that it was perfectly stable, the very first question I would ask is "what isotope?" It didn't seem like he was at all interested in that, at the very least he could have said "I asked the government guy about the isotope but he said it was classified." All elements ever made in that mass range have decayed in fractions of a second, so this would be pretty important information.

I'm highly skeptical of BL, mainly because of the false degrees. If he lied about something so simple and fundamental, why would I believe anything else he says?

I would note that even though I don't believe BL I still think there's something to the UFO phenomena.
 

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It's been 80 years since splitting the atom. 50 since the moon landing. How much like science fiction would either of those have sounded to the average person 10-20 years before they happened? Don't you think we think we've created things that aren't public knowledge yet, and that would essentially look like science fiction to normal people? And yet, "Unexplained = Aliens" is the answer? You might as well call it magic.


I think it all comes down to this:
  • Could someone benefit from having people focusing on aliens? (profit, distraction, plausible deniability, etc.)
  • Is there piece of alien evidence/support that couldn't have been faked, given sufficient resources?


We should hope and pray that there aren't any aliens near enough to matter considering how less-intelligent beings fare being near us.
 

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i won't tell what i think about aliens because this si too advanced and i will be ban or something as usual like all guys who are too advanced

so enough of being punished



so instead i suggest that you look at this game :



25685

why ?

because maybe you will learn some interesting things if you are smart enough to go deeply



this game was launched in the 80 's and then... things like these pictures were found in it.


what a surprise ! ( not a surprise at all for guys like me )


1562861826196.png

25687

25689





now the future as predicted in the game .......


25688




more interesting :


25690 25691
 

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I consider myself open minded and today I'm going to admit that I'm leaning toward the idea that aliens are here and have been visiting Earth ever since the first atomic bomb went off.

While I'm not radically entrenched in that belief (I'd say it fluctuates between 60/40 and 70/30 in favor of aliens are here) I am becoming more acclimatized to the idea. Five years ago I'd say my belief was 40/60, in favor of them NOT being here.

Part of this belief probably evolved from being an avid Star Trek fan with a particular casual interest in quantum physics, space/time topics, and the humble realization that we are technological cavemen in the grand scheme of things.

It also might be possible that TIME is moving very slowly for us (which is a function of gravity) so 1 year for us humans could quite possibly be 1000 years for aliens.

I'm bringing this topic up NOW because I've noticed recently in the last, say 2 years, there has been significant UPTICK in the "aliens are here" claims/assertions, many of such which are coming from scientists, ex-government employees, and highly professional folks, such as pilots, both civilian and military.

Additionally, the government is starting to TRICKLE out little bits of information (or allowing it to occur) from unexplained navy pilot videos, to the disclosure that the American government was running the secretive AATIP organization. It seems the folks involved in this stuff are no longer fearful of retribution, persecution, or even death (while being labeled a tin-foil hat conspirator).


Moreover, I've noticed that the "aliens are here" assertion is starting to bleed into the MAINSTREAM while many of these MAINSTREAM figures (Michio Kaku, Rogan ) are starting to dive into the topic. For example, Bob Lazar was recently on the Joe Rogan podcast discussing many things, including Lazar's contention that he was in charge of reverse engineering an alien spacecraft which used Element 115 as a propulsion component, a component allegedly involved in warping space/time.

Of course, many assert that Lazar is full of crap, and a variety of other folks involved.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWz4SXfyCQ


And now, just the other day, Fox News put the UFO story on the front page of its website (On Friday which was promptly removed when the California earthquake hit) asking the question itself, are they here? And what does the Trump think about it? I went there to get news about the earthquake and was promptly hit with the UFO headline.

Whether you believe any of it, is not my point.

I feel like I'm in the middle of a counter-intelligence operation, from the TV programs (like Ancient Aliens, UFO documentaries, etc.) whereas culture is being slowly groomed with the idea that we are not alone.

So when it happens, it won't be such a big shock.

Years ago this stuff was considered fringe.

Now I'm starting to see it bleed into the mainstream.

So much so that I'm willing to say that "something" is going on -- maybe not aliens perse, but something.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
 

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All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
I also think that there is a galactic union that allows planets to join once advanced enough. I don’t think that will happen very soon as I think they need to see we have stopped killing each other before letting us in. Kind of like how an entrepreneur group won’t let someone in a MLM in their group lol.
 

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Just watched that documentary and listened to the JRE podcast. I have to . say, I'm learning very heavily towards believing Bob Lazar.

All of the debunkers bring up a bunch of minutiae that's not really even relevant (did he really go to MIT?! Can he do graduate level physics questions out of a textbook!?)

This puts me (and all of us) in a conundrum because if it's true, this is really F*cking earth shattering. It's way more comfortable to just believe it's all fake.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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I actually lean towards modern humans being egotistical beings that have not even scratched the surface of understanding.
Yes, that's where I'm at.

I actually don't FEAR aliens.

IMO, if they're an advanced civilization, they've survived themselves and are probably highly enlightened.

What I do fear, however, are HUMANS and what will be their uncivilized reaction to aliens, should they ever become known.

On another note...

25725



Lazar mentioned it decades ago.
 

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Yes, that's where I'm at.

I actually don't FEAR aliens.

IMO, if they're an advanced civilization, they've survived themselves and are probably highly enlightened.

What I do fear, however, are HUMANS and what will be their uncivilized reaction to aliens, should they ever become known.

On another note...

View attachment 25725



Lazar mentioned it decades ago.
I want to agree with you but can't. That they've survived to become orders of magnitude more advanced than us doesn't mean they're more enlightened. I have no evidence for this belief, just an intuition.

Let me put it this way: We have advanced technologically more in the last 100 years than in the previous 10,000. Have we become more enlightened? Are we more moral, compassionate, or empathetic? Does the average person of today live with more purpose than the person of 1919? More love toward his fellow man?

If they're here it might just be because they're looking for resources. We'll be standing on the beach with trinkets thinking we're welcoming a superior being, but really it's just Hernan Cortes with grey skin and a space ship.
 

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