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OFF-TOPIC Tin Foil Hat Time: Are Aliens Here?

ZF Lee

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If there was any existence of life out there, there must be some out there,
as they haven't tried to contact us yet.
25653
 

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AgainstAllOdds

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The idea about aliens being a false flag operation is an actual conspiracy theory I have heard for years. Here is a bit more about it:

Whether aliens are here or the government is trying to trick people into thinking they are here IS INSANE.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L1fmT6SwAw

If our government was willing to do that, then I have little doubt they were and are willing to execute on many other politically profitable actions - especially the ones that don't cause direct harm (aliens).

Here's what they were willing to do if you don't want to click the link:

"The proposed, but never executed, 1962 Operation Northwoods plot by the U.S. Department of Defense for a war with Cuba involved scenarios such as fabricating the hijacking or shooting down of passenger and military planes, sinking a U.S. ship in the vicinity of Cuba, burning crops, sinking a boat filled with Cuban refugees, attacks by alleged Cuban infiltrators inside the United States, and harassment of U.S. aircraft and shipping and the destruction of aerial drones by aircraft disguised as Cuban MiGs."

I find the plausibility that the government is involved with "aliens" far from insane.
 

JScott

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Not tossing in my opinion here (it's meaningless), but this is worth reading:


Also, for any of us over the age of about 40, keep in mind that during the 1970s, it was a LOT more common to hear about UFOs (and Bigfoot and telekenesis and The Loch Ness Monster, etc). In fact, there used to be prime-time shows based on these things, like this one hosted by Leonard Nimoy:


Ever since the invention of digital cameras, these types of things have been much less seriously discussed and debated...
 

ChrisV

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Oh god... here we go with the quantum woo.

The only reason “observing” changed the outcomes of certain experiments is because light is a particle itself, which actually sometimes moves other particles in some cases. Especially when you’re dealing with shooting tiny atoms at a wall.
 

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I never thought I would see the day when Aliens made page 1 and stayed there on MFL!

Do I think that there are aliens? Absolutely.

Do I think they are here on earth? I doubt it. The first thing an alien would send would be robotic in nature anyways, wouldn't it? Would humans send flesh to a new planet or solar system or galaxy, or probes and robots to check stuff out first? I am betting on probes.

Look at the discovery of planets outside of our solar system in recent years. Now look at the even more recent discovery of planets inside the habitable belts of stars. The rate at which we discover these things is just exploding, and we are using shitty old tech to do the searching. Just wait until the latest and greatest tech is working for us in this regard.

I read somewhere that the actual number of UFO sightings have decreased in recent times. Times where nearly every person in the developed world has a camera in their pockets (or their hand, get off your phones!) at all times. Don't you think we would have a plethora or video and photographic evidence from all this? Look up UFO videos and they are all so grainy they look like they were shot on worse than a flip phone.


I forgot to add, hope you all have your VPN turned on if we are getting into the conspiracy stuff!!
 
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JAJT

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We are living in a simulation, hence Fermi's Paradox that states the galaxy isn't crawling with aliens even though it's overloaded with stars.
Fermi's Paradox (and the possible solutions to it) fascinate me.

I was going to type out a long post about it but then found a video in 2 short parts (plus one that dives deeper into the great filter) that does a much better job than I would do:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhhvQGsMEc


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fQkVqno-uI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtOGPJ0URM
 
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404profound

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Since alien related programs and the accounts of highly respectable people claiming sightings are being more covered by the media and given nore attention to, what's it =really distracting us from? I've boticed the media enjoys playing the magician, giving one topic intense coverage and drawing eyes and ears towards it, while also drawing us away from other topics by minimizing exposure to them and burying information. Call me a tin hat wearing moonrock worshipper, that's just what I've noticed.
That's exactly right. It wouldn't surprise me if programs like JRE receive subsidies from various lobbyists. "Hey Joe, get 'em going on aliens this week. We really need to be able to slide this shit under peoples' noses without them smelling it."
 

resrock

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I’m almost certain that Aliens are here with us already. Frankly, one may be a bit too closed minded to believe that our species is the only one in the entire universe capable of our level of intelligence given the discoveries of our exploration over the last 60+years

I think that when ‘they’ are ready to make themselves known, they’ll do it however they please. Based on the fact that they’ve made it here from a place we can’t go yet leads me to believe that no world government would be able to prevent this hypothetical ‘exposure’ even if they wanted to.

What’s preventing them from making contact? Maybe we’re a bit too hostile for they’re liking. Maybe they’ve watched us from a far hurt one another and destroy the environment in which we live. Think about it. Would you want to interact with a species that is as violent and destructive as ours if you were of a supreme intelligence?

Anyway, that’s just my take on it. Could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.
 

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I've had two anecdotal experiences with "something." Now, I don't really go around saying aliens exist or they don't. I've never directly seen an alien. But, I keep an open mind to most things. I've tried to make sense of these experiences, but still don't know exactly what I saw as it was fairly brief, on both occurrences.

I do believe that objectively I've seen some kind of ufos/uats twice in one summer five years back. I don't know precisely if it was military crafts, hallucinations, some explainable natural phenomenon, some weird lighting illusion that can be explained by science or what it was.

The first experience, I was driving down a grid road at night. I live in a rural area and there was no one else on the road at this time. I was about 2km away from the intersection to my home, when suddenly I saw something in the sky to my upper right. There were 4 squarish lights on the side. It was dark outside, but I could vaguely make out an oblong shape. I hit the brakes softly and before I could come to a complete stop it took off really fast.

Then about a month or so later one of the neighboring small towns was celebrating it's 100 year anniversary. I tagged along with a friend. It was dusk and the sky was still that crisp blue where you could still kind of see. Anyways, we're sitting at a picnic table. The audience was all focused one direction as the band was getting started with typical openers. "How you folks doing tonight?" I don't know what made me look up at the sky in the opposite direction, but once again, I saw that dark oblong shape. This time it's lights looked dimmer and smaller. There appeared to be more lights too, but I couldn't count them. In a panic, I tried to get my friends attention. But, pretty much as I was saying his name, the craft just seemed to fade out of existence. I tried explaining it later, but I don't think he believed me.

So that's my tin foil hat experiences lol. I don't know what it is that I saw as both experiences were brief. And I haven't experienced anything like it since.

EDIT: Got off track and had to rant. But, I agree that the amount of alien/ufo content and market has really been growing. There's different theories as to why this is happening. Perhaps To The Star Academy is actually onto something? Perhaps it's being done to distract political agendas? Perhaps, the governments want to disclose certain information regarding this topic in an acceptable way. And maybe the reason is as simple as market demand. Who knows?
 
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JAJT

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Also worth noting that sleep paralysis is an excellent "occam's razor" explanation for most night time alien abduction / visitation stories.

These experiences can be highly realistic, extremely emotional, scary beyond words, and are accompanied quite often by total body paralysis. They don't feel like dreams at all so even the sanest person would swear up and down that they weren't dreaming during an episode.

I experience them occasionally in various degrees (especially while stressed) and honestly they fit the bill so perfectly to most abduction/visitation stories. It feels like you are a prisoner in your own body (as if being held down by an invisible force) and what you see/hear looks as real as anything else. And go figure - once the episode is over, you find yourself alone in your room as if you were "returned" after some crazy event.

Here's a description of the hallucinations from wiki (bold mind):

Several types of hallucinations have been linked to sleep paralysis: the belief that there is an intruder in the room, the presence of an incubus, and the sensation of floating.[15] A neurological hypothesis is that in sleep paralysis the mechanisms which usually coordinate body movement and provide information on body position become activated and, because there is no actual movement, induce a floating sensation.[15][10]

The intruder and incubus hallucinations highly correlate with one another, and moderately correlated with the third hallucination, vestibular-motor disorientation, also known as out-of-body experiences,[15] which differ from the other two in not involving the threat-activated vigilance system.[19]
...
A hyper-vigilant state created in the midbrain may further contribute to hallucinations.[7][10] More specifically, the emergency response is activated in the brain when individuals wake up paralyzed and feel vulnerable to attack.[15] This helplessness can intensify the effects of the threat response well above the level typical of normal dreams, which could explain why such visions during sleep paralysis are so vivid.
It's honestly the perfect storm to turn even the sanest person into a raving advocate for the existence of aliens.
 

JScott

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I agree that the amount of alien/ufo content and market has really been growing.
Keep in mind that the number of Flat Earth believers has been growing too... This doesn't mean that there is new/more evidence that the Earth is flat -- it's simply that the Internet has provided democratization for information, and people can now spread information (true or false) more quickly and easily. Especially information that they find intriguing.
 

Bearcorp

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I enjoyed the Bob Lazar Rogan podcast. Then I went and watched the new film he was in.

Man, that guy behind it (who was also on Rogan with Lazar) did not help with his credibility.. what a vain a$$ filmmaker. So bad.
Thanks for sharing that, I haven’t seen the Netflix doco but I got that impression of Corbell in the Joe Rogan Podcast.
 

ChrisV

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Destroying one's credibility is how to marginalize critics. There are stories of records disappearing when pertaining to military officials who claim non-terrestrial interactions.

However....

In Lazar's case, I question his inability to post a picture of his college days, transcripts, or a framed degree.

If someone said I didn't go to college, I could immediately produce transcripts and degrees, much less a legion of photos and memorabilia from the era.

This is where Lazar loses credibility.
I agree. Like how hard would it be? Most people have that hanging in their office.

But at the same time, in my retarded, completely uneducated view of physics, he does sound like he knows his stuff. So if he wasn't educated at CalTech, where was he educated? And if he wasn't educated, why does he know so much about physics? If he just educated elsewhere, I feel like he would just say 'i went to _______ university.'

In other words, it seems like he was educated somewhere. And if that somewhere was somewhere else, I feel like he would have just said that from the start.
 

lowtek

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@lowtek what's your professional, physicist opinion on this Bob Lazar guy that MJ posted to in the OP? I watched a decent amount of the interview, but I don't know enough about physics to separate the wheat from the chaff.

From his Wikipedia entry:

Lazar claims he earned a master's degree in physics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), and a master's degree in electronic technology from California Institute of Technology (Caltech); however, there are no records of Lazar attending either MIT or CalTech.[5] Furthermore, Lazar was not a member of a professional body.[citation needed] Lazar speculates that his academic records were erased in an effort by authorities to discredit him.[citation needed]

During trial and under oath, Lazar again claimed degrees from MIT and Caltech.


Does he sound like he knows his stuff? Does he sound like someone who could potentially hold a Master's Degree from Caltech, or does he sound like someone who's winging it. The headache thing honestly raised a few red flags for me because it seems like it could be a cop out for difficult questions, but then again, the government has been known to do things like what he's saying. Does he sound like someone who could potentially be an actual physicist?
Apologies for the delayed reply. I must have missed the notification from the mention.

I learned about Lazar many years ago, as a UFO enthusiast. As far as I'm aware, his story has remained consistent over decades. This is incredibly difficult to do for liars, which is one point for his credibility.

Based on the Joe Rogan interview, he does have a strong grasp of physics. Here are just the things I remember:

The comment about Element 115 having to be a stable isotope because all the forms we have synthesized to date have half lives of order milliseconds. This is plausible and not something I would see a crackpot coming up with.

His explanation for how the UFO that the navy pilot saw appeared to be bouncing around (effectively gravitational lensing from the antigrav drive) is both plausible enough and indicates more than passing knowledge of physics.

His critique of the consequences of Tesla's wireless transmission of power is also correct, and not something the typical crackpot would even think of.

Also, his delivery of all this didn't seem to indicate any deception. He sounded convinced of what he was saying, so at the very least, he believes it all to be true.

In my mind, the two biggest points against his credibility are the lack of degrees and verification from LANL. Both of these could be engineered by the government, as LANL is a government lab and both universities have close ties with government.

On the balance of evidence, what little there is, I tend to believe him. That could certainly be my own bias and wishful thinking, but I've seen many crackpots and he doesn't fit the typical mold.
 

MattR82

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Thanks for sharing that, I haven’t seen the Netflix doco but I got that impression of Corbell in the Joe Rogan Podcast.
It was really bad. Lazar is just Lazar, so no problem. But the opening scene is a very moody, shadowy scene starring... Corbell and his tattoos for some reason. The guy is an absolute joke that is trying to make himself look like a cool movie star by trying as hard as he can to integrate himself into Lazars story.
 

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Apologies for the delayed reply. I must have missed the notification from the mention.

I learned about Lazar many years ago, as a UFO enthusiast. As far as I'm aware, his story has remained consistent over decades. This is incredibly difficult to do for liars, which is one point for his credibility.

Based on the Joe Rogan interview, he does have a strong grasp of physics. Here are just the things I remember:

The comment about Element 115 having to be a stable isotope because all the forms we have synthesized to date have half lives of order milliseconds. This is plausible and not something I would see a crackpot coming up with.

His explanation for how the UFO that the navy pilot saw appeared to be bouncing around (effectively gravitational lensing from the antigrav drive) is both plausible enough and indicates more than passing knowledge of physics.

His critique of the consequences of Tesla's wireless transmission of power is also correct, and not something the typical crackpot would even think of.

Also, his delivery of all this didn't seem to indicate any deception. He sounded convinced of what he was saying, so at the very least, he believes it all to be true.

In my mind, the two biggest points against his credibility are the lack of degrees and verification from LANL. Both of these could be engineered by the government, as LANL is a government lab and both universities have close ties with government.

On the balance of evidence, what little there is, I tend to believe him. That could certainly be my own bias and wishful thinking, but I've seen many crackpots and he doesn't fit the typical mold.
Well that basically settles it for me.

I mean there could still be the chance he just studied physics on his own, but its not as likely. Furthermore, I don't see how hes benefitting from this. Seems like aggrivation more than anything.
 

ExaltedLife

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Aliens are not here. They might exist, but not here, and not in the form we think of them.

There's too many parties incentivized to push the narrative that aliens exist. The biggest being the government and media:
  • Government: If you believe aliens exist, then you're more likely to approve of large military spending and support your government (control by fear)
  • Media: If you're interested in aliens, then your media consumption increases. The media creates bullshit articles to take advantage of your curiosity
Nationalism is dying off. The ability to unite everyone under the government with an 'Us vs Them' attitude is harder than ever. So what's new?

Give the government more money. Give them more power. Or the big bad aliens will come and destroy us all. Pay more taxes. Sign away your rights. Huge incentives for the government.

Then with the media, you have things like this:



The History Channel figured out years ago that Aliens are better TV than actual history. So they created countless programs about how aliens built the Ancient Pyramids, etc. The mainstream media is just adopting a trend that has already existed.

Today's media is entirely void of any journalistic values - pushing alien stories is just another addition to their array of fake news. Find news that people want to read = get readership = make money off ads.

@ZCP made a good point about the media.

So as far as your Occam's Razor principle, what's more likely:
  • Aliens existing?
  • Or a spread of misinformation that benefits multiple parties including the government and media?

I agree. Occams Razor though is nonsense. "Fewer moving parts" has no bearing on the likelihood of something existing.
 

lowtek

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Well that basically settles it for me.

I mean there could still be the chance he just studied physics on his own, but its not as likely. Furthermore, I don't see how hes benefitting from this. Seems like aggrivation more than anything.
MJ did bring the perfect rebuttal to his degrees, however. Why can't he just produce the physical copy from one or both schools?

So, now the only thing I know for sure is that I should have been thinking more critically... because that's an obvious problem with his claims.

I'm probably not as objective as I'd like to believe.
 

ChrisV

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MJ did bring the perfect rebuttal to his degrees, however. Why can't he just produce the physical copy from one or both schools?

So, now the only thing I know for sure is that I should have been thinking more critically... because that's an obvious problem with his claims.

I'm probably not as objective as I'd like to believe.
None of us are as objective as we like to believe.

But perhaps it's as simple as: he just never really thought of it. I mean he doesnt seem like a really public kinda guy who's rushing to get the limelight. In fact it kinda seems like this Jeremy guy is dragging his reluctant a$$ into all this. Maybe if we emailed the guy he could scan them 1, 2, 3 and he just never cared enough to get into it, or even considered it. Maybe it's just one of those brainfarts where it's like 'oh duh.. hang on, good idea.. lemme get a picture.'

Another factor is... it seems like he's trying to do his best to not piss too much in the hornets nest too. It seems like before this documentary and the Rogan appearance, he mostly just wanted to be left alone and kinda even regretted releasing the first tape.
 

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eldelnacho

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I'm pretty sure I saw a UFO when I was like 7 or 8, it was right in front of my old house and it had a triangle shape (similar to the ones in "The Independence Day", but not quite). My older brother was with me so I'm sure I wasn't imagining things. This happened in Santiago, Chile.

Right across the neighborhood street we saw it moving, it came fast from the sky stood there for like 7 to 10 seconds doing the "I sh*t you not" UFO sound FX (bruuurbruuubruu you know the ones) and the thing then quickly went away like the Star Trek intro. I'm certain I saw it and that I wasn't dreaming. My brother still remembers it too (he was around 18 or older at that time).

The funny thing is that after we saw it, we just said to ourselves "ah, it must be some new type of aircraft or something" and went back to play videogames without giving it too much thought. From that day on I'm convinced there is more stuff in the world that we take for granted, and life has giving me the experience that reality surpasses fiction most of the time.

NOW WHERE IS MY TINFOIL HAT!!! I NEED IT TO POST STUFF LIKE THIS!!!
 

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Nope.

150 years ago, it was ghosts.

In earlier centuries, it was demons.

“Things that go ‘bump’ in the night” were nocturnal animals, not goblins.

A guy with a thick beard walking around late at night was just a man, not a werewolf.

“Flying saucer” myths just added more to the desire to believe in something fantastical from another world, despite a total lack of evidence.

If the government knew about alien visitations, it would make more sense to expose it than to hide it. Exposure would allow the government to marshal the population’s most capable, talented members in order to confront the challenge in the most effective way.

For a look at the improbability of real, live Vogons and Daleks, consider Rare Earth.

Even a trip from Earth to Mars would entail a departure from Earth’s magnetosphere, which protects us from cosmic radiation. Radiation protection is just one of the innumerable, steep hurdles involved in interplanetary travel by living creatures.

The media eat up UFO stories because they sell. There’s a reason that “Star Wars” and “Star Trek” led to so many sequels and knock-offs.

Nevertheless, is such a thing possible? Sure. So are leprauchans. So are fire-breathing dragons. The relevant question is what’s probable, not what’s possible.

The idea of becoming an interplanetary species is also nonsense. Why would anybody want to live on another planet?

Stay on Earth, guys.
 

GPM

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These experiences can be highly realistic, extremely emotional, scary beyond words, and are accompanied quite often by total body paralysis. They don't feel like dreams at all so even the sanest person would swear up and down that they weren't dreaming during an episode.
My wife gets these from time to time, and they are indeed terrifying. Hundreds of years ago they would result in the unfortunate subjects believing in demons or ghosts or spirits, today it is still those, but also aliens and whatever else we now believe in thrown into the mix.

It is incredibly easy to trick the human sensory system into believe it saw and felt something that is 100 incorrect. Bring me proof, subjectivity means nothing.
 

natew

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Not necessarily. If you accept that the conditions for the sustenance of life as we know are the result of some wacky probabilities, then the odds that any planet holds life are slimmer and slimmer because all the conditions necessary would have to occur in lockstep, which in some ways is like repeatedly winning the lottery.
Nailed it.
 

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In Lazar's case, I question his inability to post a picture of his college days, transcripts, or a framed degree.

If someone said I didn't go to college, I could immediately produce transcripts and degrees, much less a legion of photos and memorabilia from the era.

This is where Lazar loses credibility.
MJ did bring the perfect rebuttal to his degrees, however. Why can't he just produce the physical copy from one or both schools?

So, now the only thing I know for sure is that I should have been thinking more critically... because that's an obvious problem with his claims.

I'm probably not as objective as I'd like to believe.
Touché Bob, touché.

1:17:21

View: https://youtu.be/K1viG6PRjiw?t=4641


You know what also gets me? This Bob Lazar guy has been keeping up this jig for over 30 years? Like I can understand being in your 20's submitting a fake tape to news outlets and laughing with your friends... but to be in your late 50's or whatever, and 30 years later pop in with the same story, and seemingly get the physics right ..... for what? You're gonna practically get a PhD in physics just to cover the tracks of some prank you played when you were a kid? To talk about some UFO bullshit that literally has no financial gain to it? I dunno... I'm still on the fence here but something doesn't add up. I think the scales are tipped in his favor.
 

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One more comment:

As for the credible crackpot who is only partially insane and knows how to throw around some technical terms, who cares what he says? At the end of the day, it’s his word against yours.

I want a public experience that provides a substantial amount of easily available evidence.

When an alien spacecraft hovers above a baseball stadium while a World Series game takes place there, then the aliens will be able to make the case that they exist. Until such time, the burden of proof is on them.
 

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Do aliens exist? Considering that we as humans could evolve and are living in this universe, why not? I think it's more unrealistic to believe that we are the only living species out there.

What if the universe works in ways we cannot comprehend (yet)? Like, maybe aliens are 4 or 5 dimensional beings (or higher). Something a human being cannot comprehend. What if our understanding of time and space is not correct, or missing something?

I find this explanation pretty interesting.

So yeah, maybe we, as human beings, just don't understand yet, or are able to comprehend how the universe really works, or what the universe really is. For example, we are "sure" nothing can travel faster than light, but that being sure is based on what we can comprehend and what we know so far.
 

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Apologies for the delayed reply. I must have missed the notification from the mention.

I learned about Lazar many years ago, as a UFO enthusiast. As far as I'm aware, his story has remained consistent over decades. This is incredibly difficult to do for liars, which is one point for his credibility.

Based on the Joe Rogan interview, he does have a strong grasp of physics. Here are just the things I remember:

The comment about Element 115 having to be a stable isotope because all the forms we have synthesized to date have half lives of order milliseconds. This is plausible and not something I would see a crackpot coming up with.

His explanation for how the UFO that the navy pilot saw appeared to be bouncing around (effectively gravitational lensing from the antigrav drive) is both plausible enough and indicates more than passing knowledge of physics.

His critique of the consequences of Tesla's wireless transmission of power is also correct, and not something the typical crackpot would even think of.

Also, his delivery of all this didn't seem to indicate any deception. He sounded convinced of what he was saying, so at the very least, he believes it all to be true.

In my mind, the two biggest points against his credibility are the lack of degrees and verification from LANL. Both of these could be engineered by the government, as LANL is a government lab and both universities have close ties with government.

On the balance of evidence, what little there is, I tend to believe him. That could certainly be my own bias and wishful thinking, but I've seen many crackpots and he doesn't fit the typical mold.
I recently watched the documentary about Bob Lazar on Netflix - horrible directing but still found it worth a watch for the info.

While Los Alamos denied him ever having worked there, later on, someone (Knapp, i believe) tracked down an old employee phone directory in their system with Bob's name on it. I think that blows a pretty huge hole in their denials and suggests that a cover-up is pretty plausible. I mean, c'mon.

There was an interview, too, of a guy who said he'd often dropped Bob off at school in his college days, and that if he was just pretending to go be a university student back then he sure put a lot of time and effort into it...
 

JScott

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This Bob Lazar guy has been keeping up this jig for over 30 years? Like I can understand being in your 20's submitting a fake tape to news outlets and laughing with your friends... but to be in your late 50's or whatever, and 30 years later pop in with the same story, and seemingly get the physics right ..... for what? You're gonna practically get a PhD in physics just to cover the tracks of some prank you played when you were a kid? To talk about some UFO bullshit that literally has no financial gain to it? I dunno... I'm still on the fence here but something doesn't add up. I think the scales are tipped in his favor.
Or maybe it's for the publicity, as he runs a couple companies that would benefit from having his name out there among the fringe.

Here's one example:


Notice the magazine and news credits in the upper right-hand corner. There's a reason those magazines and news organizations discussed Bob Lazar and it wasn't because of this company.

Imagine the number of customers he generated from that Joe Rogan interview. Just the fact that we're discussing him here!

According to his Wikipedia page, he's been arrested for aiding a prostitution ring and has had at least one bankruptcy. Long story short, this isn't just your straight-and-narrow government employee.

Lastly, if the stuff he were saying was real, he clearly had a high-level security clearance, the stuff he's discussing is clearly classified, and so he'd be violating national security laws. Yet, there seems to be no effort -- formal or otherwise -- to keep him from speaking. Sure, you can argue that this is a strategic decision by the government, but that's a stretch, in my opinion.

Back to Occam's Razor on this guy...
 

ChrisV

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While Los Alamos denied him ever having worked there, later on, someone (Knapp, i believe) tracked down an old employee phone directory in their system with Bob's name on it. I think that blows a pretty huge hole in their denials and suggests that a cover-up is pretty plausible. I mean, c'mon.

There was an interview, too, of a guy who said he'd often dropped Bob off at school in his college days, and that if he was just pretending to go be a university student back then he sure put a lot of time and effort into it...
Where there you go @MJ DeMarco and @lowtek

I'm gonna check out the documentary when I have some time.
 

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