The Ukraine War, implications, outcome?

[Guyfieri5]

Hope these guys are all ok. I was working with a few freelancers from Kyiv recently, had plans, thought everything was going well........then the attack began and I'm not sure what happened to them




Lots of hysteria online hyping up WW3 but I doubt it's going to happen. I could be wrong though. Putin's attack was a complete surprise to me this morning.

-UK most likely is not going to send troops because Russian missiles will reach them easily.
-Most of Europe is relatively quiet about this IMO.
-Canada....well....I think Trudeau has enough problems at home.
-Without the UK and European countries, the US will likely not join the war against Russia, because if they really do go in 1-on-1 with Russia (which is unthinkable madness!), they'll still have the nagging "what if China takes this chance...." thing
-China is currently obsessed with building up their economy, war is the last thing they need (in case anyone wonders, I feel China will eventually use force to take over Taiwan but it'll be in the far future)


I understand Putin's reason for attacking, but it's way overboard tbh. If he wanted buffer areas around Russia's western border to prevent US from planting troops and military bases there, he could have done what China did to Taiwan and drag it out indefinitely over decades (to-and-fro) without sudden war. This morning's attack was truly WTF.
The most sickening part are videos showing scared Ukrainian kids hiding in the underground metro stations. f*ck all these.

I could see this escalating to WW3. While it is still somewhat unlikely right now it is possible because Russia poses a threat to the current world order. Russia has always had intentions to grow Westward as this gives them a tremendous strategic advantage against the west. The former Soviet Union held territories as far as Eastern Germany leaving the west only a narrow attack vector from the west because of the Carpathian mountains and other landmasses that prevent invasion from the south. From a strategic standpoint, Ukraine, Poland, etc. offer a lot of security as long as they are not NATO for Russia against the west. Also, Ukraine has a ton of oil off the coast of Crimea and on the mainland. The west has everything to lose if they lose the energy battle with Russia. Hell, we picked the middle east apart for oil, no doubt we'd do the same in Russia. The only question is how we're gonna do it without a few nukes going off.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

Man I'm getting tempted to start going all out on the double standards in this thread. Can some of you think before you start posting?

This always happens with a Country that the West is interested in. You get this country-wide 24/7 media poison engine started criticizing the "enemy" and making the West-tied country look like angels. Just stop. The Russian government is bad? The Ukrainian government is JUST AS BAD. Why do I have to keep bringing up the neo-nazi group contracted by the UKRANIAN GOVERNMENT, whom by the way were apart of the National Guard, that committed horrible war crimes? They had no mercy for the MENTALLY DISABLED. But this is fake and it's pure Russian propaganda, right? Boils my blood. "Oh but they're a minority far right group like Proud Boys in the USA!" - since when are minority far right groups part of the National Guard?

MILLIONS of kids died/are dying in Palestine, Gaza, Syria and Iraq, but whatever, West ain't interested in those countries so forget 24/7 media, crypto donations, calling Israel as evil/worse than hitler, calling USA as evil, etc. etc. etc. We'll just make them look like bad guys, call their governments corrupt (in most cases whom are elected in by the West), and call it a day. Let their own people figure out how to clean up the dead bodies of kids.

If you're going to make a post, don't play one side ONLY and ignore the other side. That's not how this world works. Otherwise, you're just a hypocrite and there's nothing wrong with that, but just make your views KNOWN so we avoid pointless dialogue.

 

[srodrigo]

Here we go Vladimir Putin puts Russia’s nuclear deterrence forces on high alert

 

[woken]

If you're going to make a post, don't play one side ONLY and ignore the other side. That's not how this world works.

It’s either white or black for some. There’s no grey, no in-between.

Like I said, pray for the victims from both sides.

War is not the answer.


@srodrigo it’s been 24h already since they put them on high alert.

 

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[woken]

While Keyboard Warriors suffocate the internet with meaningless philosophical debates and endless reasons to do nothing real Warriors are taking action...

Another step forward against Russian Fascism...

Elon Musk says Starlink internet service ‘active’ in Ukraine

Billionaire says satellite broadband service is available in Ukraine, as Russian attacks disrupt the internet.

www.aljazeera.com

They still need the terminals.

 

[MitchC]

While Keyboard Warriors suffocate the internet with meaningless philosophical debates and endless reasons to do nothing real Warriors are taking action...

Another step forward against Russian Fascism...

Elon Musk says Starlink internet service ‘active’ in Ukraine

Billionaire says satellite broadband service is available in Ukraine, as Russian attacks disrupt the internet.

www.aljazeera.com

Mate what are you doing? You’re the most active keyboard warrior in this thread.

 

[MoneyDoc]

While Keyboard Warriors suffocate the internet with meaningless philosophical debates and endless reasons to do nothing real Warriors are taking action...

Another step forward against Russian Fascism...

Elon Musk says Starlink internet service ‘active’ in Ukraine

Billionaire says satellite broadband service is available in Ukraine, as Russian attacks disrupt the internet.

www.aljazeera.com

Every single one of your posts ends with an attack on Russians. What’s your end goal?

What if Elon denied this request? Would you be saying the same thing? No? Hmm, interesting.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

As I said... While Keyboard Warriors suffocate the internet with meaningless philosophical debates and endless reasons to do nothing real Warriors are taking action...

Another step forward against Russian Fascism...

Russian media channels broadcast Ukrainian songs after hacker group Anonymous declare cyber war

A number of Russian state websites, including the official website of the Kremlin, were affected by the outage on Saturday

inews.co.uk

Ignored.

 

[loop101]

I am amazed at the amount of disinformation that is being circulated about this conflict. I fall for almost all of them. Then I see the pictures and videos are from previous conflicts, movies, and even video games (lol).

The old lady giving the Russian soldier flower seeds so they will sprout wherever he is killed, wives saying goodbye to soldiers, defiant soldiers on the island, the Ghost of Kieve, the guy that took out the bridge, the Ukrainian President on the front line, raging Putin in his bunker, etc. It's been less than a week!

It is really hard to know what is real.

 

[Marigold]

I am amazed at the amount of disinformation that is being circulated about this conflict. I fall for almost all of them. Then I see the pictures and videos are from previous conflicts, movies, and even video games (lol).

The old lady giving the Russian soldier flower seeds so they will sprout wherever he is killed, wives saying goodbye to soldiers, defiant soldiers on the island, the Ghost of Kieve, the guy that took out the bridge, the Ukrainian President on the front line, raging Putin in his bunker, etc. It's been less than a week!

It is really hard to know what is real.

The first casualty of war is truth ~ Hiram Warren Johnson

 

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[Simon Angel]

While Keyboard Warriors suffocate the internet with meaningless philosophical debates and endless reasons to do nothing real Warriors are taking action...

Another step forward in repelling the Russian Facist Dictator and the invasion of Europe ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t2knpz View: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t2knpz/ukrainian_soldiers_hitting_a_tank/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

That's hilarious because the only reason you know about this subreddit because I shared it in one of my meaningless philosophical posts.

 

[Simon Angel]

Something interesting I noticed is the disparity between the amount of footage we're getting from Ukrainians and Russians (as many have noted online, we're seeing so much more from Ukrainians than the Russians).

Well, the reason is that the defending side's civilians are recording videos while there are not a whole lot of Russian civilians close enough to record anything at all.

And this to me is a HUGE part of this war and provides a HUGE morale advantage for Ukrainian soldiers and civilians while also crushing the Russians' willingness to further engage in the war (note the numerous Russian athletes posting "STOP WAR" Instagram stories or writing it on TV cameras, soldiers surrendering). Meanwhile, ex-world heavyweight boxing champ Vitaly Klitschko is the mayor of Kyiv.

Has this happened ever before in history? Surely not on such a scale, I think. Or maybe I just just wrote a description for plain propaganda?

 

[Speed112]

It's our duty to side with the lesser evil.

If you side with the lesser evil you're still evil.

Not sure why people have the impression that there are people in here siding with Putin.

I'm certain that everyone thinks Putin is an evil autocratic piece of shit for invading his neighbors and organizing state-sanctioned mass murder. We can denounce dictators and evil deeds while pointing out hypocrisy, double standards, and falsehoods. They are not mutually-exclusive.

...as I said before. It's like Iraq all over again.

 

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[Fox]

@Hadrian several of your posts have been removed. They are pretty much spam at this point.

If you are worked up about Ukraine then go take some real action (as already suggested) and log off here for a while.

 

[juicey]

It is called the security dilemma.

Your country fear Russia but Russia fears you joining NATO.

So both parties arming themselves to point guns at each other and make both parties actually not safe.

Joining NATO is making your country more safe and more dangerous at the same time.

The counter example is Mongolia which is sandwiched between China and Russia, which acts as a buffer zone. If Mongolia is part of Russia or China that would make Russia and China relationship much more tense.

The population of Estonia is 1.3 million, Latvia 1.9 million, Lithuania 2.7million. I sure as hell feel 99% safer thanks to being in NATO. We wouldn't stand a chance against Russia if they were to invade and we wouldn't be part of NATO.

The Baltic countries would tremble in fear at the moment if we weren't part of NATO as we would have very likely been the next countries to get invaded. It would be quite easy to justify invading our countries as well since like I said we also have a significant part of Russian population who refuse to integrate or learn our national language and only follow Russian TV channels and news.

Therefore I argue that safety gained can't be even compared to the dangerous part you are mentioning.

 

[Fox]

The first casualty of war is truth ~ Hiram Warren Johnson

The second is this thread.

 

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[nothingness]

Does that include not getting a bullet in your head for upsetting the wrong crowd?


So this kind of moral hypocrisy according to you is better than what you have in the West? Basically “committ as many crimes as you want, if you’re on our side, you’re free, we’ll just keep gathering the evidence in case you decide to change camps”?

I don’t see this as being done “in accordance with the law”. The law doesn’t say only persecute crimes if they are your political opponent otherwise turn a blind eye. Let’s not forget Hodorkovski who literarily got his entire company taken over by the state when he upset Putin. And what about cases of poisoning like Litvinenko or cases of FABRICATED EVIDENCE against you? As in fake tax documents and so on forged just to create a reason to take you out. Is that also done “professionally and in accordance with the law”?

You speak like this only applies to Russia and not the rest of the world, lol.

 

[loop101]

The second is this thread.

I think it's hard to talk about the effects of a war without talking about the politics behind it, while talking about politics is almost always a race to the bottom. When this conflict is over, the world will be a different place, with new pitfalls and opportunities, so I think it is worth trying.

 

[nothingness]

The population of Estonia is 1.3 million, Latvia 1.9 million, Lithuania 2.7million. I sure as hell feel 99% safer thanks to being in NATO. We wouldn't stand a chance against Russia if they were to invade and we wouldn't be part of NATO.

The Baltic countries would tremble in fear at the moment if we weren't part of NATO as we would have very likely been the next countries to get invaded. It would be quite easy to justify invading our countries as well since like I said we also have a significant part of Russian population who refuse to integrate or learn our national language and only follow Russian TV channels and news.

Therefore I argue that safety gained can't be even compared to the dangerous part you are mentioning.

I wouldn't hold too much hope for those countries either. I mean Russia has part of it's own country south of those countries (Kalinigrad) so it makes more sense for them to annex E,L,L in order to integrate K into Russia again.

No one is going to go for full on world war three over Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and probably Belurus too. Everyone knows this. I asked a few people where Belarus was this week (all britons) and all of them said that Belarus is a city in Russia, LOL.

NATO and the EU are willy waving organisations. Believing you're safe because of it is a dangerous belief. You should be putting that thought power into financial independence allowing you to move ASAP.

I live in the UK and it's scary the thought of WW3 because we are the perfect target for Russia to nuke to prove a point / prove it's might. An isolated island. 4 of their biggest nukes would cripple the entire country.

 

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[Hadrian]

@Hadrian several of your posts have been removed. They are pretty much spam at this point.

If you are worked up about Ukraine then go take some real action (as already suggested) and log off here for a while.

Sounds like a plan. Will block this thread while I still have some testosterone left.

Sláinte

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAr7oI8cquA

 

[nothingness]

MILLIONS of kids died/are dying in Palestine, Gaza, Syria and Iraq, but whatever, West ain't interested in those countries so forget 24/7 media, crypto donations, calling Israel as evil/worse than hitler

Worse than that, criticising Israel is a "hate crime"(and the highest one on the hate crime hierarchy) and people have gone to prison for related "crimes". You can't even give the opinion that the holocaust is fictional David Irving jailed for Holocaust denial

Disclaimer; not saying that I deny the holocaust occured. Just saying how in the West you're not allowed to have an opinion because it's wrongthink like in the 1984 novel.

 

[Fox]

My take so far - Russia isn't really going all out here. They sent the B squad.

- Old weapons
- Fresh recruits
- Sporadic attacks
- No major front or offence

As bad as this is it could easily be 100 times worse.

Go check out some videos of the first few days of the Iraq war - Baghdad got HEAVILY bombed. I did some searching and 1,000 bombs a day were getting dropped on Iraqi at at the start. So far in total in Ukraine it's been 350 - total.

Also I have yet to see a single video in this situation with ANY major damage (non military).

Yes there have been casualties (of course) but this is not what a full out war looks like from a top 3 world super power.

Like look at these videos of random tanks just driving around by themselves.
This is not a serious effort or someone made some serious planning mistakes.

My guess (just a guess) is Russia wanted max reaction with the least amount of actual real damage. Either they just want to prove a point that they could do it or they are keeping things well below the line that would require other countries to have to be drawn into this.

But again this is not close to a 100% effort (yet).

Something seems off.

 

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[simxela]

You great grandfather lived in Soviet time.
Soviet Union was over for 30 years.

And Putin himself publicly stated that "it was the greatest tragedy..." in his eyes. He wants to bring it back.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

At first I thought this was a hacked or spoofed account, but looks like it isn't.

Didn't know RK was so "vocal" about politics.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497982685389594624

View: https://twitter.com/theRealKiyosaki/status/1497982685389594624?s=20&t=ycNPmdcSAG7AFyzhPl7gkQ

 

[CharlesFinley]

Nice biz idea to profit off of all the normies

 

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[juicey]

I wouldn't hold too much hope for those countries either. I mean Russia has part of it's own country south of those countries (Kalinigrad) so it makes more sense for them to annex E,L,L in order to integrate K into Russia again.

No one is going to go for full on world war three over Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and probably Belurus too. Everyone knows this. I asked a few people where Belarus was this week (all britons) and all of them said that Belarus is a city in Russia, LOL.

NATO and the EU are willy waving organisations. Believing you're safe because of it is a dangerous belief. You should be putting that thought power into financial independence allowing you to move ASAP.

I live in the UK and it's scary the thought of WW3 because we are the perfect target for Russia to nuke to prove a point / prove it's might. An isolated island. 4 of their biggest nukes would cripple the entire country.

I wouldn't make those statements with so much conviction.

"No one is going to go for full-on world war three over Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and probably Belurus too. Everyone knows this." -
First of, Belarus is an ally of Russia and is aiding the invasion of Ukraine. Why should NATO go to war for protecting Belarus? NATO wouldn't have any interest in occupying Belarus either (unless WW3 would happen).

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are full-pledged NATO members, and attacking any NATO member will mean full-on war. Especially now as all the world leaders have understood that Putin is a warmonger. No one will ever believe Putin when he says that "I'll just occupy these small countries and that will be the end of it, I promise after that there will be no invasions". That's why the biggest countries are aiding Ukraine so much since all of them have understood that they shouldn't let Putin do whatever he wants in Europe without consequences.

Of course, Baltic countries will not always be safe and when world war happens we will be screwed as we border Russia, but until that happens we will be much safer thanks to being in NATO.

 

[simxela]

At first I thought this was a hacked or spoofed account, but looks like it isn't.

Didn't know RK was so "vocal" about politics.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497982685389594624

View: https://twitter.com/theRealKiyosaki/status/1497982685389594624?s=20&t=ycNPmdcSAG7AFyzhPl7gkQ

Not sure if Biden is a pu**y, but Zelenskiy seems to have grown a pair in the past couple of years.

Top- Putin and his Defence minister.
Bottom - Zelenskiy and his Defence Minister

 

[Knugs]

My take so far - Russia isn't really going all out here. They sent the B squad.

- Old weapons
- Fresh recruits
- Sporadic attacks
- No major front or offence

As bad as this is it could easily be 100 times worse.

Go check out some videos of the first few days of the Iraq war - Baghdad got HEAVILY bombed. I did some searching and 1,000 bombs a day were getting dropped on Iraqi at at the start. So far in total in Ukraine it's been 350 - total.

Also I have yet to see a single video in this situation with ANY major damage (non military).

Yes there have been casualties (of course) but this is not what a full out war looks like from a top 3 world super power.

Like look at these videos of random tanks just driving around by themselves.
This is not a serious effort or someone made some serious planning mistakes.

My guess (just a guess) is Russia wanted max reaction with the least amount of actual real damage. Either they just want to prove a point that they could do it or they are keeping things well below the line that would require other countries to have to be drawn into this.

But again this is not close to a 100% effort (yet).

Something seems off.

I think you are incorrect.

1) B-squad: I dont think this is a b-squad. The videos show (POW) russian soldiers didnt even know they were invading Ukraine. Many were told it was an exercise until they were on mission. Then being told they will get punished if they not follow orders. Basically a demoralised army vs. a highly motivated Ukrainian force fighting for its survival. Statistically Ukrainian and finnish people are most willing to die for their country of all EU countries. I think thhe russians dont understand why they are even fighting.

2) Front: Major Front at Donetsk and Luhansk (Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com). Northen Front of Kiev is the most dangerous development. Southern assault slowsly securing southern Ukraine and access to sea. Only marioupol in the way. East of Dnipr river is basically a gorilla war.

3) Equipment: There were Iksander missiles fired from Belarus. Also stationed S-400. Pantsir system, buks and T-90 Tanks in Ukraine right now. Russian army has been modernising but the newest systems and weapons havent been mass produced yet. For example the most modern russian developed stealth fighter, SU-57, has been in development since 2009 and the russians currently only own 3 of them.

4) Non military damage: check out above link for civillian damage; they are currently shelling like crazy. Putins apparent game plan was to destroy military positions and then siege cities and take out the government to install a pro-russian leader without causing any civillian damage.

5) Iraq: US has quite a better airforce and guided missiles. The iraqis also had quite poor air defenses. Maybe more targets?

6) As of the 3-4th day estimated 4300 russian soldiers dead. Btw iraq War had something like 4400 US casualities in total; 74 on the first day.

______________________


My interpretation of the current developments are that the ukrainian army is to some extent, ironically, better equiped than the Russian army. In combination with the high morale and guerilla style tactics a superpower like Russia will have a hard time to conquer the country. Remember the Taliban could never been defeated by the US. On the North eastern fronts the Ukrainians have taken out 15 tanks with Javelin missiles. Turkish Bayraktar TB-2 drones have destroyed BUKS and Tanks outside Kiev just yesterday. The Ukrainians shooting down planes and helis with Stingers. My gov sending them Panzerfaust-3 now (this gonna be a game changer). You have men driving their family to the west then returning to the war zone to fight for their country.

Meanwhile the Russian soldiers never wanted to be there. Only Putin wanted this war.

 

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[MA81]

*Edit

 

[JordanK]

Very moving to see Ukrainian men arriving to Dublin Airport saying goodbye to their families and flying to Poland to cross the border and fight.

Just some numbers that help put Russia in context on a global scale.

- The US economy is 14x bigger than Russia's
- Germany's economy is 3x bigger than Russia's
- Italy & Canada's economies are similar sized to Russia
- Ireland (5 mill population) economy is 1/3 the size of Russia's (144 mill population)

The United states spends $775+ billion dollars on military expenditure.
Russia spends $62 billion.

The Russian currency the Ruble was trading at 1 dollar = 83 Rubles on Friday. It is now trading at 1 dollar = 115 as of Sunday evening. There is a possible run on the banks and atm's in Russia at the moment.

The EU has closed it's airspace to all Russian civilian aircraft.