The Ukraine War, implications, outcome?

[srodrigo]

What Ukraine should realize is that it doesn't have any friends since no one came to help them in their time of need.

From my ignorance about geopolitics, sounds to me like Ukraine is just the US's escape goat. They wanted to expand the NATO as far as possible, country by country, over the decades, until Putin blew up, which they knew it'd happen sooner than later. They don't care what country is destroyed as long as they can place missiles as close to Moscow as Russia would allow. We got to that point now. Ukrainians? Just peons now left on their own apart from sending a few weapons here and there.

As in any war, everyone looses except for the (usually two) psychopaths who build the wars up. The sad thing is to see some people buying the psychopaths' BS, thinking it's okay for (other) people to die in battle, earning some badge of honour no one cares about, specially the ones who end up in graves. All from their comfy office chair or sofa, of course, they wouldn't fly to Ukraine and show us how manly and brave they are; it's for others to risk their bacon.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

This guy is asking me for military information. Call Putin and ask him if you can see photos. Or better yet, call Zelensky and ask him about the Azov Battalion which you clearly ignored in my post.

Why is it military information? Why is it confidential? I don’t see the Russian bombings and attacks on Ukraine as being “confidential” and “military information”. The double standards are obvious.

Azov Battalion

What’s the relationship of a far right minority group (like the Proud Boys in the US) and Zelenesky and the Ukrainian government. This is ridiculous.

Also, I am not anti-Trump, I prefer Trump over Biden in many ways.

 

[AceVentures]

There is a massive debt bubble going on. There is the fall of an empire built on debt happening before our eyes. Global corruption at every scale. Previously "democratic" nations calling the military on their own peaceful protests. Leaders freezing their citizen's access to financial products, goods, services, and even basics such as food. These same people are now parroting "defend democracy in Ukraine".

There is something sinister going on underneath this ordeal. Remember the Fed has been unable to control inflation - because there is no remaining option left to address how the corrupt have devastated a previously prospering democratic nation into a state of oblivion.

And now? Well they can create new states of emergency due to war. This becomes the ideal situation to create more fear, more hysteria, and to use what's happening halfway around the world as an excuse to steer a collapsing empire into a new order.

Before you know it there will be more lockdowns, you will lose more freedoms, and as the economy collapses and everybody's imaginary savings go up in flames, these same parrots echoing for democracy will usher in digital IDs (for safety of course, ensuring everybody's accounted for during war times) and incentivize the adoption of CBDC with Universal Basic Income paired with price controls and state-owned corporations.

Keep your eyes open. Don't fall for narrative controls and stay vigilant so your local/state/federal leaders don't rob your freedoms under false pretenses, and most importantly, stay focused on your health. The only thing that is of any value in this world is your health. Do not give it up no matter what happens.

 

[Hadrian]

Germany on Saturday reversed a historic policy of never sending weapons to conflict zones, saying the Russian invasion of Ukraine was an epochal moment that imperiled the entire post-World War II order across Europe.

1000 Antitank Javalin Missiles
500 Stinger Antiaircraft Missiles

One small step forward in helping to secure freedom for the 40 million citizens of Ukraine and countering the fascist Russian dictatorship and his ring of brutal Satellite states...

Putin's war on Europe must be halted and reversed!

Germany to send Ukraine weapons in historic shift on military aid

Until Saturday, Germany had a longstanding practice of blocking lethal weapons from being sent to conflict zones.

www.politico.eu

 

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[MoneyDoc]

Why is it military information? Why is it confidential? I don’t see the Russian bombings and attacks on Ukraine as being “confidential” and “military information”. The double standards are obvious.


What’s the relationship of a far right minority group (like the Proud Boys in the US) and Zelenesky and the Ukrainian government. This is ridiculous.

Also, I am not anti-Trump, I prefer Trump over Biden in many ways.

When I get time, I’ll list all the double standards you’ve made in this thread. The far right group caused genocides. I’ll dig up some info later. But see how you waved it off as ONLY a “far right group”?

Russian bombings? Why are there fake videos posted from the Ukrainian side? Propaganda? Okay, it works both ways.

Yeah, Zelensky is a sweet little angel whom was chosen by the Ukrainian people and everyone loves him. Okay. Whatever fits your bias.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Why are there fake videos posted from the Ukrainian side?

Dude… where are Putin’s fake videos?! Ukrainians have fake videos according to you. Why doesn’t Putin? He doesn’t have enough oil money to fund them or what?

Yeah, Zelensky is a sweet little angel whom was chosen by the Ukrainian people and everyone loves him. Okay. Whatever fits your bias.

I don’t know if he’s an angel, but he’s a hero who is standing up to Putin and risking his life doing so. The Russian Tsar is hiding in his Moscow palace because he fears a rebellion inside the army, when those soldiers discover they are not fighting Nazis, as they have been lied to. Russia has already lost 3500+ troops, including some of their very best special forces. And Putin’s media says no casualties or very small… ha ha - let’s see what those Russian mothers say when their sons return in bags back home.

 

[MoneyDoc]

Dude… where are Putin’s fake videos?! Ukrainians have fake videos according to you. Why doesn’t Putin? He doesn’t have enough oil money to fund them or what?

I don’t know if he’s an angel, but he’s a hero who is standing up to Putin and risking his life. The Russian Tsar is hiding in Moscow and moving his nukes to Moscow from the East because he fears a rebellion inside the army, when those soldiers discover they are not fighting Nazis, as they have been lied to.

You didn’t understand my point about the propaganda but it’s okay.

Can you give me coordinates to Zelensky? He’s fighting in the war right?

Let’s call it a day. No point in going on.

 

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[AceVentures]

Why are you guys fighting? What do you hope to accomplish here?

"Be mindful not to side with either team at the chariot races, nor to be a partisan of either side at the gladiator fights. Resist the temptation of listening to slander" - Marcus Aurelius

Remaining a neutral position will allow you to see and learn more. Picking sides will place guards against opposing viewpoints. Your mind will subconsciously steer you towards your biases.

If you've got something insightful to share then by all means go ahead. Then let the audience decide the merit behind the ideas. Avoid pickings fights with one another. This behavior will only steer us away from one other. Keep your cool.

 

[MoneyDoc]

Why are you guys fighting? What do you hope to accomplish here?

"Be mindful not to side with either team at the chariot races, nor to be a partisan of either side at the gladiator fights. Resist the temptation of listening to slander" - Marcus Aurelius

Remaining a neutral position will allow you to see and learn more. Picking sides will place guards against opposing viewpoints. Your mind will subconsciously steer you towards your biases.

If you've got something insightful to share then by all means go ahead. Then let the audience decide the merit behind the ideas. Avoid pickings fights with one another. This behavior will only steer us away from one other. Keep your cool.

Yeah thanks for the reminder. No point. I hate discussing politics for this reason. It’s literally useless.

 

[MA81]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jwmyj1o430

 

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[AceVentures]

It’s literally useless.

Sometimes the breadcrumbs you leave behind serve others. Chin up bro.

"Everyone is my teacher. Some I seek. Some I subconsciously attract. Often I learn simply by observing others. Some may be completely unaware that I'm learning from them, yet I bow deeply in gratitude." - Eric Allen

 

[juicey]

From my ignorance about geopolitics, sounds to me like Ukraine is just the US's escape goat. They wanted to expand the NATO as far as possible, country by country, over the decades, until Putin blew up, which they knew it'd happen sooner than later. They don't care what country is destroyed as long as they can place missiles as close to Moscow as Russia would allow. We got to that point now. Ukrainians? Just peons now left on their own apart from sending a few weapons here and there.

As in any war, everyone looses except for the (usually two) psychopaths who build the wars up. The sad thing is to see some people buying the psychopaths' BS, thinking it's okay for (other) people to die in battle, earning some badge of honour no one cares about, specially the ones who end up in graves. All from their comfy office chair or sofa, of course, they wouldn't fly to Ukraine and show us how manly and brave they are; it's for others to risk their bacon.

Don't you think that it's not NATO wanting to expand but rather smaller independent countries with small militaries wanting to have some security against the threat of Russian invasion?
I am from a small baltic country. If we hadn't joined Nato nearly 20 years ago, we would be super screwed and under constant threat from Russia as we also have around 25% percent russian population (due to mass deportations of the ethnic population during Soviet times).
If you look at the map of Europe, the Baltic countries are also part of NATO and share a border with Russia - so the whole point of Russia being against Ukraine joining NATO because then NATO would share a border with Russia is not that relevant (of course the border area shared would be much bigger if that would happen)...

 

[hellolin]

The very pursuit of certainty collectively by the west, chiefly the election of Mr. Biden, has actually caused more uncertainty in the world we live today. For people who reads this forum daily, this is yet another lesson of how we all should learn to embrace uncertainty and try our best to live with it everyday, instead of pursuing certainty which actually ends up with even more uncertainty.

And also, when Trump was in office, he was a real jackass, a big nutcase. That had effectively the effect of showing other nut jobs like Mr. Putin that there really is another nut job that has both bigger balls and bigger military powers than him, and he better be watching out because well, he no longer holds the champ. So while within the US, the social order was sort of being unsorted, outside the US, things suddenly got quite and no one was willing to wage any wars during Trump's 4 years in office. Now that I ask any of you, when you look at Mr. Biden, do you feel scared, even if he gets angry?

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

. Now that I ask any of you, when you look at Mr. Biden, do you feel scared, even if he gets angry?

Sleepy Joe can’t get angry anymore

 

[Speed112]

I just hope you were this active when the genocides in Eastern Ukraine were taking place. Or did you not care because they were Russian like Nato and the West didn't care? The Ukrainian Government CONTRACTS a neo-nazi group and you're sitting here acting like the Ukrainian GOVERNMENT are some angels? Stop with the double standards, please.

The issue here is not Russian people vs Ukrainian people.

No no you see, the people in the areas who want self-determination and are willing to stand up for their freedom against their oppressors are TERRORISTS. They have no human rights.

Clearly some imaginary lines drawn by some dudes in suits hundreds of miles away are what define these things.

We're allowed to subjugate and murder the people within our lines, but if someone else crosses them suddenly it's wrong.

...

Don't people see these are just slave drivers fighting over human chattel rights?

I wonder what these people thought when Catalonia was vying for independence. Bet they wanted Spanish tanks to roll in...
With EU support of course.

Supporting either collective side is bad. Support people's individual well-being instead.

If you want to condemn people, stick to the facts, and stay intellectually honest and logically consistent.

 

[Hadrian]

The very pursuit of certainty collectively by the west, chiefly the election of Mr. Biden, has actually caused more uncertainty in the world we live today. For people who reads this forum daily, this is yet another lesson of how we all should learn to embrace uncertainty and try our best to live with it everyday, instead of pursuing certainty which actually ends up with even more uncertainty.

And also, when Trump was in office, he was a real jackass, a big nutcase. That had effectively the effect of showing other nut jobs like Mr. Putin that there really is another nut job that has both bigger balls and bigger military powers than him, and he better be watching out because well, he no longer holds the champ. So while within the US, the social order was sort of being unsorted, outside the US, things suddenly got quite and no one was willing to wage any wars during Trump's 4 years in office. Now that I ask any of you, when you look at Mr. Biden, do you feel scared, even if he gets angry?

That because wars are a process not an event... and "compromised" Trump had given the Taliban the exact withdrawal date leading to arguably the most succesful military offensive in History.... and as for the fascist dictator Putin, well Trump didn't want to upset that bromance... lest the hotel videos were accidentally on purpose leaked to the BBC.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

That because wars are a process not an event... and "compromised" Trump had given the Taliban the exact withdrawal date leading to arguably the most succesful military offensive in History.... and as for the fascist dictator Putin, well Trump didn't want to upset that bromance... lest the hotel videos were accidentally on purpose leaked to the BBC.

View attachment 42333

I liked and supported Trump from afar when he was President but I’m not blind. It’s clear that while in my opinion he wasn’t compromised by the Russians, he did admire Putin’s power, force and way of dispatching his enemies. He wanted to be more like him.

I’m not sure though if Trump would have reacted better than Biden to the current situation. He might have, though Trump is adept at exploiting chaos for his own interests. It may very well have been that he would have looked to exploit the situation in Europe/Ukraine to gain more leverage over them in exchange for defense or intervention.

I am more sympathetic to Republicans and their values overall, and Trump did have some of the values that I think the West is missing, such as daring, determination, never say die attitude, and cutting through SOME corruption and hypocrisy.

 

[hellolin]

I liked and supported Trump from afar when he was President but I’m not blind. It’s clear that while in my opinion he wasn’t compromised by the Russians, he did admire Putin’s power, force and way of dispatching his enemies. He wanted to be more like him.

I’m not sure though if Trump would have reacted better than Biden to the current situation. He might have, though Trump is adept at exploiting chaos for his own interests. It may very well have been that he would have looked to exploit the situation in Europe/Ukraine to gain more leverage over them in exchange for defense or intervention.

I am more sympathetic to Republicans and their values overall, and Trump did have some of the values that I think the West is missing, such as daring, determination, never say die attitude, and cutting through SOME corruption and hypocrisy.

As an immigrant, somethings Trump said makes me want to snap his neck. But I did like the fact that the way he runs the US, is to actually make all the underneath uncertainties come to the surface, instead of the current situation where everyone sings the Kobaya and pretend like we are a big happy family, typical utopian approach to things that actually gets us into more uncertainties now. With Trump, you know you are either getting the glorious Trump tower, or you get turds like Trump University, but at least you know what you getting. With the current administration, you just don't know because they don't give us any confidence that any of them has handled a lick of uncertainty in their lives, being political hacks/bureaucrats their entire lives.

Trump was the big bully in your high school cafeteria, and he knows that international relations in its essence, when you strip all the bullshit away, are just like a high school cafeteria during lunch time (Back in the old days at least), and he ran it like so. Too bad that isn't the taste of a majority of people who voted in the West, so now we get this shit show going.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

It looks like Germany is the last hold out to expelling Russia from SWIFT, and they are trying to figure out the best way to do it.

Germany softens stance on curbing Russian access to SWIFT

Germany changed its position on Saturday about imposing restrictions on Russia's access to the SWIFT global interbank payment system, joining other Western powers in support of harsher sanctions aimed at halting Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.reuters.com

My take: the US wants Germany to take the blame for now ... then, at some point "experts" will agree that it would hit the west harder than Russia .... the media will soon tell you that SWIFT access for Russia is actually fine and that Putin went too far but he is on a short leash now. Things are back to normal. Nasdaq can climb to new record highs again.
Ukraine? Whatever! Putin can have it for now ... but he is a bad person. Remember that!

 

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[Hadrian]

Another step forward against the brutal Russian dictator and his evil network of satellite states…

US and EU ban Russian banks from Swift system in latest sanction

High-security banking system connects thousands of financial institutions around the world

www.independent.co.uk

 

[woken]

Another step forward against the brutal Russian dictator and his evil network of satellite states…

US and EU ban Russian banks from Swift system in latest sanction

High-security banking system connects thousands of financial institutions around the world

www.independent.co.uk

Don’t be surprised if you suddenly start seeing the largest transactions crypto ever seen.

 

[DayIFly]

Show proof. Russia claims to have the video of them after they have surrendered. Show it. It’s that easy. Otherwise it’s propaganda and lies.

I have to say, your arguments and our discussion is pretty useful to get to the crux of the disagreement. I don't think we can resolve it, but for me, it's a pretty good opportunity to sort my own thoughts on the issue by bringing it to paper/screen. So I will try:

I can give you a link, but you will say it's a fake video and they're Russian actors. I will tell you that you can't show me a video of how the Ukrainians were being killed on that island either (it was an island, not a ship, my bad) because the video ends after they say "f*ck off" but before anything happens. Just like if I say that people in the East were regularly bombed by the Ukrainian army as a provocation, you'll say that separatists were provoking them first and then hiding in-between the civilians. There is no solution to this because the evidence will never intersect, there won't be a source that we both agree upon and believe in.

But in the end, it is all irrelevant for the problem at hand. These events, they may have happened or they may not, are not the source of the problem. The source of the problem is a geopolitical conflict between the US and Russia, and both of them use their vassal states as pawns on The Great Chessboard. If you can't see that there is a strategy behind the actions of the US, and that there is a strategy behind the actions of Russia, and if you can't see that there is a certain chronological order of who acts first and who reacts, then we can't come to an understanding.

This chronological issue is the reason behind why people take different sides and why someone finds something justifiable. The US won't bomb Moscow like you suggested earlier on, because if they could, they wouldn't have moved their chess pieces in the way that they have in the last, say, 25 years. They have moved their chess pieces in this way exactly because they can't bomb Moscow and get away with it.

 

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[Hadrian]

The source of the problem is a geopolitical conflict between the US and Russia, and both of them use their vassal states as pawns on The Great Chessboard.

Absolutely right but at the moment irrelevent... Tonight in Europe's second largest country 40 million people are fighting to stay a flawed but democratic nation... a far more pleasant choice than to end up a puppet police state under a brutal Fascist Dictatorship where if you say a word out of place you'll be tortured, jailed for years or disappeared!

An irony I hope isn't lost on every keyboard warrior!

Putin's war on Europe must be halted and reversed!

Elderly resident reprimands Russian soldiers: 'You have your own country' - video

 

[MattR82]

There's more. Like the ship crew who responded with a "f*ck off" to the Russians and were subsequently shot and killed, they actually surrendered and everybody survived. Or the video that shows the missile that hit the high-rise, there's more footage that shows from where it was launched but you won't see it on TV.

And the ghost of kiev story was apparently fake as well. A viral video apparently showing the ace pilot was actually from some kind of game or something. The video creator was actually open about it not being authentic and more of a tribute, but that doesn't stop people from shooting from the mouth and asking questions later.

 

[simxela]

Guys you're talking about this situation based on second-hand (or third-, whatever) sources.

Hence, your posts ignore one fundamental fact.

This war is the war of Russian government against the Ukrainian people.
The Ukrainian government merely represents the people.
There's no way Ukrainian people will accept Russia's demands.

Now, as a Ukrainian whose family is in Kyiv and near it I can offer you to:
1. Ask questions and get your answers right here.
2. Keep consuming biased second-hand information from elsewhere.

Which do you prefer?

 

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[MitchC]

 

[MattR82]

View attachment 42334

Jesus, one of them is even from a movie lol.

 

[simxela]

Jesus, one of them is even from a movie lol.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that post doesn't seem to exist @ https://twitter.com/Misshattan nor does "from" user.

If you want to know real info, don't use English-language media.

 

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[AceVentures]

Please watch and share this latest After Skool video far and wide.

Although it may seem irrelevant to the War - I argue it is of utmost importance that we stay vigilant to what's happening under the veil of fear.

Let's encourage ourselves to build empowering parallel societies and incentivize our peers to follow along rather than to let the machine take control of our sanity.

 

[Kevin88660]

Don't you think that it's not NATO wanting to expand but rather smaller independent countries with small militaries wanting to have some security against the threat of Russian invasion?
I am from a small baltic country. If we hadn't joined Nato nearly 20 years ago, we would be super screwed and under constant threat from Russia as we also have around 25% percent russian population (due to mass deportations of the ethnic population during Soviet times).
If you look at the map of Europe, the Baltic countries are also part of NATO and share a border with Russia - so the whole point of Russia being against Ukraine joining NATO because then NATO would share a border with Russia is not that relevant (of course the border area shared would be much bigger if that would happen)...

It is called the security dilemma.

Your country fear Russia but Russia fears you joining NATO.

So both parties arming themselves to point guns at each other and make both parties actually not safe.

Joining NATO is making your country more safe and more dangerous at the same time.

The counter example is Mongolia which is sandwiched between China and Russia, which acts as a buffer zone. If Mongolia is part of Russia or China that would make Russia and China relationship much more tense.