The Ukraine War, implications, outcome?

[Black_Dragon43]

That is the mainstream narrative. The restoration legacy stuff is part of it. Him having such goals (which I don't believe are the case) is precisely what makes him irrational, as "we're in the 21st century praise democracy boo imperialism". So I don't think you can have one without the other.

That is, as long as you're following the mainstream narrative, which you seem to be.

I'm not concerned whether my narrative is mainstream or not.

But I don't look at goals as rational or irrational. Reason is goal-orientation, and more specifically figuring out how to get from where you are to where you want to go. If you want to kill a billion people, then reason is what shows you how you can achieve that. Insanity and madness on the other hand are the opposite of goal-orientation... doing things that sabotage your own goals.

Reason is thus neither good nor evil, it depends how you use it.

I don't think that we're in the 21st century, therefore boo imperialism. Quite the contrary, I criticized the West for their naive view about the world (ie, boo imperialism).

I can post an essay of double standards based on your post, but I won't. I will however post a statement from Zelensky himself. And please don't straw man my post into saying I support Putin or I think Putin is a Boy Scout.

Speaking in the early hours of the morning from Kiev, Zelensky said he had reached out to “partners” in the West to tell them Ukraine’s fate was at stake.

“I asked them – are you with us?” Zelensky said. “They answered that they are with us, but they don’t want to take us into the alliance. I’ve asked 27 leaders of Europe, if Ukraine will be in NATO, I’ve asked them directly — all are afraid and did not respond”

“We were left by ourselves. Who is ready to go to war for us? Honestly, I don’t see anybody. Who is ready to give Ukraine guarantees of NATO membership? Honestly, everybody is afraid,” the Ukrainian president added.

So what were you saying about NATO again?

What's your point?

 

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[Sander]

View attachment 42302
View attachment 42301
Can a war finally wake people up enough to end this pathetic woke garbage.

It really puts things in perspective. It was mentioned earlier on this thread that the west are busy hiding from a virus, destroying their economy’s and dollars, trying not to offend a man who says they are a women while Russia is busy working.

The women above saying she wishes she was putins mother and that idiot saying they’re going to catch covid makes me think not.

How the f*ck do we actually fix the west?

Also, if covid wasn’t enough to do it, maybe China invading Taiwan will be. It’s time to bring back local manufacturing.

My predictions. Russia drains the swamp in Ukraine. Biden’s approval rating hits 0. People wake up and realise they need some actual leaders and vote trump back in.

No WW3, not even close.

I hope I’m right, I’m taking the positive approach.

Yes some of this is offtopic and yes some of this is about trump sorry antifragile, no I’m not using a war and peoples suffering to push some kind of point or agenda I think it’s a relevant part of the prediction in a sense that for us lucky not to be in Ukraine this is how I think we will be affected.

We actually changed the minister of defence in Denmark just recently. Now it's a man.

 

[EmotionEngine]

Ukraine giving up their nukes for a security guarantee from us, uk, russia was a treasonous choice. One that might have been avoided if there was a smart ukranian leader at the time.

North Korea is better in this regard.

Easy to see in hindsight. Russia's trajectory was much different then.

 

[Hadrian]

Shits getting real…

Russia banned from Eurovision after invasion of Ukraine

European Broadcasting Union said including Russia ‘would bring the competition into disrepute’

www.independent.co.uk

 

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[nothingness]

Wild theory: they didn't get enough people to take their covid shot so now it's back to good old population culling; war.

 

[Antti]

Sadly, as relevant today as 40 years ago.

 

[nothingness]

 

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[Antti]

That's funny but most of the stuff that Russia has used there so far is ancient: T72's, BMP-1's, BMP-2's, MTLB's etc. You could literally run circles around them in an Abrams or Merkava and not have a care in the world.

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

That's funny but most of the stuff that Russia has used there so far is ancient: T72's, BMP-1's, BMP-2's, MTLB's etc. You could literally run circles around them in an Abrams or Merkava and not have a care in the world.

Indeed. Russia can't afford to lose T90s to javelins. Russian Ground Force's strategy seems to be to use up old equipment that won't be usable in 10-20 years anyway and, with the Chechen forces coming in, using non-ethnic Russian subjects to do the fighting (and therefore, much of the dying) similar to how Britain used the Gurkhas and how Rome used its Gallic allies.

 

[Xeon]

“I asked them – are you with us?” Zelensky said. “They answered that they are with us, but they don’t want to take us into the alliance. I’ve asked 27 leaders of Europe, if Ukraine will be in NATO, I’ve asked them directly — all are afraid and did not respond”

“We were left by ourselves. Who is ready to go to war for us? Honestly, I don’t see anybody. Who is ready to give Ukraine guarantees of NATO membership? Honestly, everybody is afraid,” the Ukrainian president added.

Ukraine got played out by both Russia and the West. They are just a pawn in the process and sadly, NATO never intended to let them join.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1aakn
This is basically President of Ukraine saying "we are all here with our troops". It appears he is in Kyiv.

I respect his heroism to fight to the last, but unfortunately, I think he may not survive for long. This is a losing battle he's in, Russia forces can't be stopped now, there's another 120,000 Russian troops at the border and that's not even including the remaining 700,000+ troops back in their country.

And the worse thing? Mandating Ukrainian guys 16 - 60 to stay back and get killed in a war they are guaranteed to lose? Asking foreigners to come in to die for them? Sorry, that isn't heroism, that's foolhardy.

Let's hope this will end quick within the next 2 days.


Side note, for those Ukranians going into Poland or other neighboring countries as refugees, are they going to stay there permanently or just a short while till this blows over? I can't imagine Poland or Moldova, Romania able to give jobs to millions of them as these countries are also poor nations themselves?

 

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[RussRussman18]

I hate to break it to some of you, but there is good and evil in the world. It’s not all a grey, complex mess as some of you like to think it is. It is precisely this “widsom” of seeing everything in grey and being unable to see white and black that has crippled us - we are no longer able to differentiate good from evil.

Putin is a dictator and a killer - someone who has personally ordered the MURDER of his opposition in brutal ways, including through radioactive poisoning ON FOREIGN TERRITORY. If you think he has any “principles” or that you can trust his word or negotiate with him, you still don’t understand who you’re dealing with. Putin does not negotiate.

I can tell you know nothing about American politicians

 

[Raja]

Ukrainian government is drafting all able men

where are the feminists when you need them the most /s

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

where are the feminists when you need them the most /s

I know you are being sarcastic, but women do make up 15% of Ukraine's armed forces and the deadliest female sniper in history was Ukrainian (309 confirmed kills). Conscription of Ukrainian women has happened before, hopefully it won't happen here.

 

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[MattR82]

I just heard that it was actually anyone with military experience being called upon rather than just normal citizens. It was a translated video of Zelensky though so not sure if it can be trusted.

 

[Vas87]

No, but I'd rather have those evil people ruling over us than Putin or Xi.

Bruh, the government is already in Xi's pocket.

 

[Xeon]

I just heard that it was actually anyone with military experience being called upon rather than just normal citizens. It was a translated video of Zelensky though so not sure if it can be trusted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t1lbx5

 

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[MattR82]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t1lbx5

Volunteer is quite different to the conscription quotes I heard though, that's all.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

Indeed. Russia can't afford to lose T90s to javelins. Russian Ground Force's strategy seems to be to use up old equipment that won't be usable in 10-20 years anyway and, with the Chechen forces coming in, using non-ethnic Russian subjects to do the fighting (and therefore, much of the dying) similar to how Britain used the Gurkhas and how Rome used its Gallic allies.

That is interesting. Just read that experts are surprised that Russia sent only a small percentage of the 150,000 soldiers that are positioned close to the border.

I know that the US profits a lot from what is happening. One aspect that occurred to me only recently is that they also get to see where the Russian military stands and how they fight - and gain important insights.

It makes sense that the Russians have considered that aspect and obfuscate their true capabilities that way rather than show off.

 

[MTF]

I can't imagine Poland or Moldova, Romania able to give jobs to millions of them as these countries are also poor nations themselves?

Poland is not a poor nation at all, particularly compared to Romania, let alone Moldova which is the second poorest country in Europe.

In Poland for the past 10 years or so there are more and more Ukrainians. Last year it was well over a million (3.5% of current Polish population). I assume many of those already legally working in Poland will take care of their families. Due to what's happening now, many companies are now announcing they're hiring Ukraine workers, too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t1lbx5

So sad. That computer programmer guy is clearly a super smart person based on how outspoken he is and how excellent his English is. Yet now, instead of using his brain to advance in his life he's forced to become cannon fodder.

 

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[Xeon]

So sad. That computer programmer guy is clearly a super smart person based on how outspoken he is and how excellent his English is. Yet now, instead of using his brain to advance in his life he's forced to become cannon fodder.

Very sad and tragic, especially the last few seconds in the video where you see these civilians marching like soldiers. Honestly, most of the people in the video are not going to make it out alive.

If large parts of the Ukrainian army have already been wiped by the russians, what makes these programmers, business managers and actors actually think they can do anything except to die? Just hide in the underground metro till all these are over, for F*ck's sake.

 

[SDE]

@Antifragile and @Ocean Man any recent updates from the family in Ukraine? Are they safe?

At my last company, I got to work alongside many Ukrainians. It's terrifying for me to see that the people with whom I interacted regularly are in a life or death situation. Quite different from reading about wars in countries where we know no one personally.

 

[SDE]

These are all the sources I'm following at the moment. If anyone has any other good ones, please share.

I have been following this one: https://twitter.com/i/lists/1174203958044348418

Ok, now I* get what @thechosen1 meant when he said DJT's response would be different during war times if he was the POTUS:












*Not American and not pro/anti trump.

 

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[loop101]

I am trying to figure out why this will not happen:

1. Western countries expel Russia from SWIFT banking system
2. Russia switches to Bitcoin for settling international trades
3. China switches to Bitcoin for settling international trades
4. US dollar loses its reserve currency status
5. US economy collapses
6. China takes Taiwan
7. Ex-Nato countries ally with Russia/China
8. America implodes

 

[Black_Dragon43]

So sad. That computer programmer guy is clearly a super smart person based on how outspoken he is and how excellent his English is. Yet now, instead of using his brain to advance in his life he's forced to become cannon fodder.

Very sad and tragic, especially the last few seconds in the video where you see these civilians marching like soldiers. Honestly, most of the people in the video are not going to make it out alive.

If large parts of the Ukrainian army have already been wiped by the russians, what makes these programmers, business managers and actors actually think they can do anything except to die? Just hide in the underground metro till all these are over, for f*ck's sake.

Honestly guys, why are you so afraid of death and war? Sometimes there does come a time to fight, and you’ve got to fight, even if you die in the process. All through human history men have fought when needed. Not that I don’t understand the need to run away, but just keep in mind that 2-3 generations ago, if that was your mentality you’d have been deemed a coward and a traitor by your nation.

As for dying - they’re not necessarily going to die. I’m not sure Zelensky is going to die. It’s not easy for the Russians to conquer Ukraine despite a bigger army. Once they “take over” Kyiv, all that happens is that this will turn into a guerilla warfare. Zelensky and his guys have distributed weapons to the population.

The Russians are going to have a VERY hard time to take over and control Ukraine. So it’s not going to be easy for them. And it’s actually a miscalculation for Putin, because Russia isn’t America. America may have been able to have fought ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but Russia’s economy is puny on the other hand. The longer it takes, the less likely they are to win.

So contrary to what you guys say, the more Ukrainians oppose and fight the Russians, the better. “Hiding in the metro” isn’t going to save anyone from oppression and misery.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

I am trying to figure out why this will not happen:

1. Western countries expel Russia from SWIFT banking system
2. Russia switches to Bitcoin for settling international trades
3. China switches to Bitcoin for settling international trades
4. US dollar loses its reserve currency status
5. US economy collapses
6. China takes Taiwan
7. Ex-Nato countries ally with Russia/China
8. America implodes

The US is still importing oil from Russia. You just won't read about it in the news. Same with raw materials.

Instead you'll read that a smart person figured out that the SWIFT exclusion would hit Nato harder than Russia and so they won't do it.

Germany just stopped Nord Stream 2. They are still buying through the established channels.
The US will continue to only use words to tell the public how evil Putin is.

Disclaimer: the source of these "facts" is a German market observer and I have not verified that information through other sources, yet.

 

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[NewManRising]

I am trying to figure out why this will not happen:

1. Western countries expel Russia from SWIFT banking system
2. Russia switches to Bitcoin for settling international trades
3. China switches to Bitcoin for settling international trades
4. US dollar loses its reserve currency status
5. US economy collapses
6. China takes Taiwan
7. Ex-Nato countries ally with Russia/China
8. America implodes

What are the numbers for the winning lottery ticket since you know some much?

 

[Simon Angel]

Honestly guys, why are you so afraid of death and war? Sometimes there does come a time to fight, and you’ve got to fight, even if you die in the process. All through human history men have fought when needed. Not that I don’t understand the need to run away, but just keep in mind that 2-3 generations ago, if that was your mentality you’d have been deemed a coward and a traitor by your nation.

As for dying - they’re not necessarily going to die. I’m not sure Zelensky is going to die. It’s not easy for the Russians to conquer Ukraine despite a bigger army. Once they “take over” Kyiv, all that happens is that this will turn into a guerilla warfare. Zelensky and his guys have distributed weapons to the population.

The Russians are going to have a VERY hard time to take over and control Ukraine. So it’s not going to be easy for them. And it’s actually a miscalculation for Putin, because Russia isn’t America. America may have been able to have fought ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but Russia’s economy is puny on the other hand. The longer it takes, the less likely they are to win.

So contrary to what you guys say, the more Ukrainians oppose and fight the Russians, the better. “Hiding in the metro” isn’t going to save anyone from oppression and misery.

That's a retarded question. I agree with the rest of what you said but I doubt you'd be as brave as you think you are if this was currently happening in your country.

Have you gone through mandatory military service?

 

[MTF]

Honestly guys, why are you so afraid of death and war? Sometimes there does come a time to fight, and you’ve got to fight, even if you die in the process.

With all due respect, only very naive and idealistic teenagers who aren't aware how terrible war and death is can say something like that.

You have only ONE life. Losing your life is the ULTIMATE price. There's no free respawning here.

You're a young, smart, successful guy with your whole life ahead of you. Perhaps you'll lift out of poverty thousands of people around the world through your business endeavors. Perhaps you'll start a nice, big family and your children will become great scientists. Perhaps you'll start a non-profit that will solve a big problem. All of these are worth way more than being yet another casualty of war.

We don't live in a tribalistic, war-mongering world anymore. You get to choose where you want to live and NOBODY should ever be told they should throw away their lives if they can cross a border and live in peace.

Would you really be ready to die today and throw it all away? I think it's very easy to say it when your life isn't in danger.

War is not only death. It's also mangled bodies. Raped women. Children killed in front of you. You killing other people. Others trying to kill you. Never-ending anxiety and fear. Hunger. Destruction. Poverty. Atrocities.

All for what? For an idiotic conflict caused by old men who can't solve their differences like REAL men (and that's not through violence but through dialogue).

That's my big problem with patriotism and why I'm a cosmopolite. People are dying trying to protect an imaginary line on the map because someone brainwashed them it's their "duty" to sacrifice their only life so that politicians can keep enjoying their lives as they argue with each other.

If somebody wants to fight out of their own volition, let them fight. They're free to choose that.

But leave the peaceful people to decide what they want to do with their lives. They have no F*cking obligation to protect a made-up place just because luck decided that's where they were born in that period of history.

keep in mind that 2-3 generations ago, if that was your mentality you’d have been deemed a coward and a traitor by your nation.

And 2-3 generations ago, if you were an atheist, they would have deemed you the devil. And 2-3 generations ago, if you hit your wife regularly, they would have deemed you a cool guy. And 2-3 generations ago in many Eastern European countries if you were an entrepreneur, they would have deemed you the worst scum on Earth. Who cares how they would judge you?

Were the Jews who fled Europe before World War 2 cowards and traitors? Or should they have all stayed to enjoy with their entire families the abominable atrocities and become yet another wiped out generation?

Is a guy walking at night with his girlfriend a coward and a traitor if he grabs his girlfriend and runs away from a group of thugs? Or should he perhaps stay and be F*cking sliced and diced in front of his girlfriend so that someone can later call him a (dead) hero?

Is a father of a family of four fleeing a war-torn country to set roots elsewhere a coward and traitor? Do you really think that his wife and kids would want him to stay behind and die? Or would they want him to go with them and be an actual father and enjoy their lives in peace somewhere else in the world? It would be selfish of him to put his country (a made-up concept where he was randomly born at that period of time) over his family (real living people who want him alive around them).

I'm sorry but this bullshit about being a coward and a traitor is just idiotic. Your only concern should be your own life and the life of your family. The rest are made-up concepts and cultural brainwashing to convince naive young men it's cool to be a dead hero (while your parents, siblings, partner, children, and friends grieve you their entire lives).

 

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[loop101]

What are the numbers for the winning lottery ticket since you know some much?

I never said I knew anything.

 

[srodrigo]

Honestly guys, why are you so afraid of death and war? Sometimes there does come a time to fight, and you’ve got to fight, even if you die in the process.

Sounds like Call of Duty sold too many units.