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HOT TOPIC The Poor Man I Cant get a job: Flipping Stuff Log

Neng Her

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Don't feel bad. I once applied to over 350 jobs, 15 interviews, 4 offers. Most I qualified for, some not as much.

BTW I suggest you enter all the positions, employer, and date of application sent onto say a google sheet b/c it's free. That way you can pop it up when someone calls you and don't have to second guest whose calling.

Getting a job was easy. I needed something to take care of my expenses so I can focus on building a business. But here I am with a job to cover my cost of living but no business yet.
 

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MoreValue

MoreValue

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No, but magically thinking could have made you put down on your resume that you live in the city of the jobs you applied for.

You could have asked us, how do I get over this barrier of location in my job search that's been plaguing me, vs. coming here afterwards and saying that you are at a disadvantage because of it.

You see, your mind is not letting you see solutions or even ask for help. It's seeing the problems after they've passed on by.

That's why you keep saying it takes money to make money, and we say no it doesn't.

You say, I have to live in the city of my job to get the job, and we say no you don't.
Another less risky method would be to just put my real address and mention relocation at my own cost. I mean they are eventually going to find out I am not local. My thoughts on it backfiring is that you give the impression that you are untruthful. If you are untruthful about address, what else are you untruthful about?

Yeah, I keep saying that it takes money to make money for my specific venture. I am aware of free/near free ventures like software, landscaping, painting, etc.

This is an example of a business that has high costs that received lots of funding, how would a regular income person go about bootstrapping a business like this? No loans or investors. As you can see, it is extremely costly to produce a prototype that is presentable on a crowdsourced platform. But then again you kind of need to have all the equipment to make it professional enough.

Just skip to the middle of video to see their product development area.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTlmhOCU5sQ&t=530s
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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Another less risky method would be to just put my real address and mention relocation at my own cost. I mean they are eventually going to find out I am not local. My thoughts on it backfiring is that you give the impression that you are untruthful. If you are untruthful about address, what else are you untruthful about?

Yeah, I keep saying that it takes money to make money for my specific venture. I am aware of free/near free ventures like software, landscaping, painting, etc.

This is an example of a business that has high costs that received lots of funding, how would a regular income person go about bootstrapping a business like this? No loans or investors. As you can see, it is extremely costly to produce a prototype that is presentable on a crowdsourced platform. But then again you kind of need to have all the equipment to make it professional enough.

Just skip to the middle of video to see their product development area.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTlmhOCU5sQ&t=530s
What’s wrong with taking an “unremarkable” business and using it to fund your dream business?

How do you plan on building a remarkable business when you can’t even feed yourself?
 
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MoreValue

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What’s wrong with taking an “unremarkable” business and using it to fund your dream business?
"Unremarkable" businesses have terrible margins, but worst of all they are short-term. They tend to explode and are forgettable. These businesses barely make money. I know immediately when someone is building a "me-too"/ unremarkable business. Their customer service is absolute thrash. Go to one of these businesses and ask to return something. Since their margins are so small, they can't handle the slightest errors. Good customer service is simply a cost thing. Damaged product? Send them another free no questions asked. An unremarkable business can't handle these things. Even things like USPS or Amazon increasing fees can destroy these businesses. These businesses are not money makers, but money suckers.

It takes away from the main venture as well, since these ventures require constant product research for the next thing. You don't spend time on building the real venture. I would take a McDonald's job any day over "unremarkable" business.

If there is one thing I have learned from business is to never waste time in unremarkable businesses. There is a certain threshold you gotta hit with remark-ability.

How do you plan on building a remarkable business when you can’t even feed yourself?
Well, people are making the argument that it doesn't take money to make money. But clearly you see my point.
 
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Timmy C

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"Unremarkable" businesses have terrible margins, but worst of all they are short-term. They tend to explode and are forgettable.
oh ok what unremarkable business did you start where you experienced that? Dollar Shave Club are unremarkable, yet the founders are now swimming in cash, i mean it's just a razor blade..... you can't get any more unremarkable than that.... i don't know what you mean by short term...


These businesses barely make money. I know immediately when someone is building a "me-too"/ unremarkable business.
Proof?

It takes away from the main venture as well, since these ventures require constant product research for the next thing. You don't spend time on building the real venture. I would take a McDonald's job any day over "unremarkable" business.
How can it take away from the main venture when you can't even pursue that venture at this point in time?

What's stopping you from writing the idea down, and mapping out a plan and course of action that will put you in a stronger position to get what you want?

Can you not see the benefit of building an 'unremarkable businesses' as you put it anyway.... if you have to?

You can improve your skills such as marketing, networking, building websites, copy-writing, figuring out what does and doesn't work, how to take photos, how to calculate all COGS for your business, how to build sales funnels etc?

so that when you get to your big idea your chances of succeeding are much higher due to the skills and experience you will now have?

Or do you think what your doing now is the answer?

Almost one year and no job!? EDIT, more than a year?

If you are honest with yourself you would know that what your doing isn't working at all.
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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It takes away from the main venture as well, since these ventures require constant product research for the next thing. You don't spend time on building the real venture. I would take a McDonald's job any day over "unremarkable" business.
Except right now you have NO VENTURE AT ALL.

You’re contemplating the effects that TWO businesses would have on each other but right now you have NEITHER.

Remarkable or not you are starting from ZERO.

Big fat f@cking GOOSE EGG.

You don’t get to skip ahead to level 50 or 75.

A to B to C.

Then MAYBE you might make it to D...E...F...

But FIRST make just ONE DOLLAR.
 

Dan_Cardone

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You need money coming in but cant get a job.

You also want to start up a business.

Here is what you do (though Im sure you'll have an excuse)...

Make a list of all companies you can find that sells something with high profit margins. Insurance, office furnitue, high end vacation packages, etc.

Now go down that list amd call every single business and offer to work for them as an outside sales rep for COMMISSSION ONLY and then negotiate your commission. You'll find at least one company who will jump on that offer.

Then you will have a job, be making money, and be developing sales skills which you will need as an entrepreneur.
 

ZF Lee

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You need money coming in but cant get a job.

You also want to start up a business.

Here is what you do (though Im sure you'll have an excuse)...

Make a list of all companies you can find that sells something with high profit margins. Insurance, office furnitue, high end vacation packages, etc.

Now go down that list amd call every single business and offer to work for them as an outside sales rep for COMMISSSION ONLY and then negotiate your commission. You'll find at least one company who will jump on that offer.

Then you will have a job, be making money, and be developing sales skills which you will need as an entrepreneur.
Wow, didn’t expect so much help poured into this one thread!

I noticed @G-Man talking on HR, so I’d just chime in here...

In all my freelance jobs, I’ve never ran into a HR person. It’s always the head of department of the related area whom I get to talk to e.g head of email marketing, the owner of the biz himself, the sales manager, etc.

I’ve also heard more hiring success stories done through cutting past gatekeepers by going direct to the real decision maker, be it by email, walk-in or referral.

And it’s not unheard, where I am, for folks to get jobs over dinner or tea, or over WhatsApp.

Also, on getting a job ASAP, it would be good to see if your skills can be converted into other areas that aren’t too related to engineering.

For example, project management.

I’m currently taking a unit on it in university, and it isn’t as simple as doing checklists and taking meeting minutes.

It’s about making Gantt charts (dealing with time), risk matrix (I’m doing one now for a present project lol), planning activity crashes, updating projects charters and work breakdowns now and then. A lot of work, but also a lot of space to train your mindset to find ways to improve work quality.

It’s even more crucial for engineering projects, especially those with lots of deliverables. But it applies to all businesses in general (especially those with lots of sales funnels with many campaigns aimed at different customer sophistication levels)

If you can take some of your earlier projects, even those from university or whatever past education you had, and do a not-so fictional project breakdown as a portfolio for prospective hirers, you could have something much more to offer than just a resume.

That is just an example off the back of my head, but don’t be too scared of looking into jobs in other areas.

On Upwork, I actually did this with a client who originally wanted to send a resume to an NGO, targeting jobs specializing in social impact. She didn’t get the job, so she came back to me.

I re-worded some details, and tailored her resume so that she could go for jobs with project management and HR. Think she went off to WeWork.

Must have worked, as she didn’t come back to me.:)
 

Madame Peccato

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I have only read up to half to page 3, so excuse me if I missed some crucial details or if someone else already gave you a similar suggestion.

This is what I would do if I were you and got offered the engineering job in Seattle, and if I were broke (which seems to be your situation as of now, correct me if I am wrong).

Take the job, forget about your Fastlane thing for a couple months and go full immersion into the new job...learn how you could utilize dead times in it, and how you could maximize your productivity overall. Give your brain some rest, I understand coming up with a product is hard, but from all the posts of yours I have read so far, it feels like your ideas are eating right at your soul. You definitely need a break, try living a couple months with your new job and "be a slowlaner" by all means (without the silly spendings since you know better).

Once you are settled with your job, get back to working on your Fastlane, this time with a clearer head. I'm not educated on how life goes for someone who does your kind of job, but I assume your expenses wouldn't be that high? You can always quit in a year or two when you are actually sure about your fastlane endeavor and use your savings towards your goal. 2 years of engineering work are no joke either, you will most likely be able to find a new job (maybe even better paid?), should things go really bad.

This is what I would do, but there is a huge culture (and possibly age gap) between the two of us, and I can't make your choices for you obviously. I wish you the best of luck for your future endeavors.
 

minivanman

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Funny thing..... I bet 10-12 people have messaged me about reselling since I first answered this thread. I will never say who they are but 2 of them are already making money, 2 are making progress on learning the whole reselling world and 1 has built a house cleaning business in this amount of time. And best of all.... I've been promised a Dr. pepper and a honey bun for my help! :cool: Making money really is EASY if you just try.
 

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Duane

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How can it take away from the main venture when you can't even pursue that venture at this point in time?

What's stopping you from writing the idea down, and mapping out a plan and course of action that will put you in a stronger position to get what you want?

Can you not see the benefit of building an 'unremarkable businesses' as you put it anyway.... if you have to?

You can improve your skills such as marketing, networking, building websites, copy-writing, figuring out what does and doesn't work, how to take photos, how to calculate all COGS for your business, how to build sales funnels etc?

so that when you get to your big idea your chances of succeeding are much higher due to the skills and experience you will now have?
OP you need to read this about 10 times over.

You don't try to run when you can't even crawl.

You don't try to build the multi-million dollar, legacy business when you can't consistently make a profit flipping low priced items.

From what it seems, the problem is you want to build a high barrier company, but you're not taking the proper steps to get there. So now you're frustrated because where you think you are is not actually where you are, and life is constantly showing you that (aren't getting the good paying jobs, not having success with any of your side/main businesses). And instead of stepping back and taking the advice on here, you are pounding forward into a brick wall going nowhere.

You will have a hard time getting the good jobs without traveling to multiple interviews and moving locations once it's secured. It's either that or you sit and wait for one to come up locally and hope you can land it.

Most of my graduate engineer friends flew to multiple cities for multiple job interviews until they landed their job. They then immediately secured a lease in whatever they could find in the area and most paid for all of that themselves. They bartended/did whatever to save up money to afford to land their first big job.
 

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Another less risky method would be to just put my real address and mention relocation at my own cost. I mean they are eventually going to find out I am not local. My thoughts on it backfiring is that you give the impression that you are untruthful. If you are untruthful about address, what else are you untruthful about?
You may not even get a call because you aren't local.

I think that the employer in this case would think, wow he's a go getter, willing to do what it takes to land a job. But who knows.

Yeah, I keep saying that it takes money to make money for my specific venture. I am aware of free/near free ventures like software, landscaping, painting, etc.

This is an example of a business that has high costs that received lots of funding, how would a regular income person go about bootstrapping a business like this?

Just skip to the middle of video to see their product development area.
The answer is a regular income person could not start a business like that by himself. He would need to get funding. Do you think that they just started with that huge space and R&D. They probably bootstrapped it and started in a garage. You're basically looking at Microsoft in the 2000's and saying nobody could start a business like that, not knowing that they started in Gate's garage.

I guess if I wanted to start an electric car company, I could sit back and complain that it takes money to make money... or I could build a small prototype and go from there.
 

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And if all else fails and you are healthy, I have a question for you.... do you take a shit :shit:? If you are healthy and you take a shit, you can earn money..... :shit:


I know there is going to be 1 person that is GROSSED OUT by this post! :rofl:
If I can remember from the show The Pursuit of Happyness, Chris Gardner donated some blood for cash now and then, but in real life, he felt bad about it later
 

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Applying for jobs is the hardest way to get one these days, recruiters are inundated with so many resumes. So how do they efficiently find good people? They go to LinkedIn and search for profiles that match the job description. These people are usually employed elsewhere. They contact them and steal them away form their current jobs. I suggest upgrading your linkedIn profile and checking the box that says "Available for hire". With your background it seems you should have no problem getting a job. What you are currently doing sounds like a total waste of time. I sense that maybe you don't really want a job. But if you do, another really good way to meet people and find opportunities is to volunteer for a cause you believe in. By helping people you bring out the best in yourself and your value automatically surfaces. Others will want to help you and volunteer organizations have connection with people who have money. You should really think about how you want to help the world, they you can be a millionaire by finding out what people need, by filling a need. Once you are in the helping state of mind you will not need a slow lane job any longer. Re resumes and cover letters, go to upwork.com and have someone write it for you or if you can't afford that use fiver.com. Make sure your cover letter tells a fun story, you must stand out from the sea of resumes.
 

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Another less risky method would be to just put my real address and mention relocation at my own cost. I mean they are eventually going to find out I am not local. My thoughts on it backfiring is that you give the impression that you are untruthful. If you are untruthful about address, what else are you untruthful about?

Yeah, I keep saying that it takes money to make money for my specific venture. I am aware of free/near free ventures like software, landscaping, painting, etc.

This is an example of a business that has high costs that received lots of funding, how would a regular income person go about bootstrapping a business like this? No loans or investors. As you can see, it is extremely costly to produce a prototype that is presentable on a crowdsourced platform. But then again you kind of need to have all the equipment to make it professional enough.

Just skip to the middle of video to see their product development area.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTlmhOCU5sQ&t=530s
Here's a reality check:

No investor is going to give you that money in your current state.

You can barely convince someone to give you a job. How are you going to convince investors that an unemployed kid with limiting beliefs and no track record is going to get them a return?

If you can't get a job, you can't get the investment. Simple as that.
 
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MoreValue

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Going by the logic that you don’t need money to start a business. Then why do I need a job or funding?

Anyways, I owe everyone here an apology by blowing off your attempts to help me. I made this thread venting and frustrated. Sorry again. I just have to give this job hunt more time...I am all set. Thanks
 
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To pay rent and eat. You need money to live.
How would you go about getting business equipment and materials without money then?

Edit: Even if you don’t go that route, you still gotta pay up to outsource
 

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MoreValue

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Do you think that they just started with that huge space and R&D. They probably bootstrapped it and started in a garage.
No, by looks of it. All that specialized equipment was necessary to create the finished/sellable prototype. That is why it doesn’t make sense when people say “It doesn’t take money to make money.”

The equipment and materials just don’t come out of thin air.

Leveraging the knowledge aspect for funding also is not free. So most people say that you can learn almost everything for free online. Using this expertise to get funding for you business. This @Kak method I read about.

How can you call yourself an expert, if you just read? For example, Can you really call yourself an expert electrical engineer if you only read about it and never actually designed a PCB, used a breadboard, and play with components? With these you can only call yourself an expert by doing. In order to “do” you need components and equipments. You need money first.

Here how i see it.

Money > Equipment + Material + Time > Expertise > Leverage Expertise for Funding.

As you can see, you need money first to be able to do anything.

If I want an investor to fund my electronic product, and I sell this guy everything I know. Then he asks, have you actually made anything. And you say no, because it doesn’t take money to make money. Then he finds out you never actually made a basic electrical circuit. Is he really going to give you money? I certainly wouldn’t.
 

CaptainAmerica

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I finally read through all of this. Here's my advice, based on what worked for me:

- get A job. for me, I took a series of mind-numbing, dead-end jobs until I finally found one I could stand for more than a few months: forklift and truck driver for the ReStore. It was very physically demanding, and I didn't know if my health could take it, but it did. Minimum wage = food

- talk to EVERYONE about your dream, and who do they know, and how could you have a prototype built? Don't worry about people stealing your idea. a) most people never take action and b) if they do, they get to do the heavy lifting of proof-of-concept for you.

- in your spare time, flood LinkedIn and everyone you know with your shiny new resume. Don't even start counting until you've sent out 500. Not kidding.

- When you get a nice new job in your field, it should be enough for you to pay for your daily survival + saving for the new venture. (this is the level I'm at, as of this morning)

- NOW you can look around for actually getting the prototype made and presales and investors. Remember Control: don't give up more than 49% of your ownership. File a patent.

Baby steps, man. Stay healthy, and take baby steps in the direction you think you want to go.
 
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MoreValue

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Been interviewing to jobs close by and it is just 100% easier to get interviews if you local.

Still no job yet though, but hey it doesn’t take money to make money...

@biophase looked up some industrial spaces instead and the lot of size of these things are huge. I need space, but not that much space. Office space and industrial space is crazy expensive. Especially if you tack on the price of your own personal rent.I would rather use that money for machines or my own home.
 
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MoreValue

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I wanted to state that I actually use to believe the "It doesn't take money to make money" phrase. This phrase is incredibly dangerous because it hides reality.

Why do you think this happens?

Person goes in "I can do anything because it doesn't take money to make money"
Then goes into depression because the reality does not match your expectations.

I'm going to say it right now, this phrase or MJ's teaching I used as a guide for my business. It has cost me more money if I had not read TMF. I wish I never read the damn thing, and just accepted the fact that business is expensive. He touts red pill, but it is actually a blue pill book. The book has god awful advice. Trigger Alert!

My quote from this thread referring to bad coaches and what happens: Has a one on one business coach ever been "worth it" for you?
If the business coach is wrong and you listen to him, wouldn't it have the opposite effect? Adding years to the learning curve? Pretty much inputting wrong directions into the GPS
I looked back and realized I never really failed at all in my ventures. It was that thought I could build a business from $0. I left previous businesses because I realized half way in because I realized I couldn't afford the startup costs.

This time is different though because I am ACCEPTING that fact that this business is expensive. I also disagree with MJ's passion argument.

1) If you run a passion business and you DO make money, then this will POISON your passion
2) If you run a passion business and and DON'T make money, there is no positive feedback and will hate your business.

He is literally on BOTH sides of the argument. What really happens, when you run a passion based business is that it doesn't feel like work and you will ENJOY the PROCESS. Dramaticallyt increasing your chances of success. Majority of people are pro passion because it ACTUALLY works!

Reality will hit one way or another. Fighting market reality is a sure way to lose money.
 
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Except right now you have NO VENTURE AT ALL.

You’re contemplating the effects that TWO businesses would have on each other but right now you have NEITHER.

Remarkable or not you are starting from ZERO.

Big fat f@cking GOOSE EGG.

You don’t get to skip ahead to level 50 or 75.

A to B to C.

Then MAYBE you might make it to D...E...F...

But FIRST make just ONE DOLLAR.
I am actually half way in a business. I just ran out of money to complete the project. Interest is already there because I invested deep in product remarkability. Spent $0 in marketing costs.
 

lao

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I have, like you been looking for a job recently.
I have been consulting with a "job specialist" and got some input in job-seeking strategies.
Our job markets are probably different as I live in Norway and you live in America (if I remember correctly).

One tip that worked for me was this:
Use your resume as a "business card," show up at locations, present yourself, ask to talk with the manager (preferably), or just talk with whoever works there. Do some chatting, leave your resume, carry on with your search with the option of following up. It includes the "show your face" factor while also making it easier for you to mass-apply for jobs. Also, consider making a specifically designed/written resume for this purpose if you choose to try it out.

My experience:
I had already put in the effort to make my resume stand out visually and creatively as it both reflected some of my skills that can benefit an employer, but also because I had been out of work for 10 years and knew I had to do what I could to make up for the big hole in my resume. I am heading off to try working as a bouncer/bartender tomorrow as a result of using this method. I chose to only deliver at places I actually wanted to work and made sure to emphasize that fact at first contact and at the interview.

Another tip that worked for me was this:
Think about places you would like to work, make this a part of your way of seeing the world when you are out and about, make a list. If your list of possible employers ends up being too short, try finding the silver lining in working places you don't currently want to work. This will shine through when you are in touch with those workplaces and give you good arguments whenever you are in contact.

My experience:
I applied at a gay bar, one of my own favorite bars in my city, the biggest reason I like it is how home I feel there + how relaxed, open-minded, including and accepting people are. It just so happened to be that they lit up when I mentioned all those things in the interview, those were very important values and mindsets for their business and it was key that staff felt like family. I am pretty sure my words and body language gave a sincere impression. I didn't just apply for "a job" or "a bartending/bouncer job", I applied for a job at their bar for the right reasons.
And this with the added bonus of working somewhere I get paid to be in direct contact with hundreds of different people on a good night. The networking and PR possibilities for myself and my business through this job almost makes me drool, I am speeding up business card creation for this reason alone.

If you're one of the "I only appreciate short posts" people, I apologize for your possibly wasted time.

Good luck with your process! Be it flipping or jobbing.
 

Davidla

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I wanted to state that I actually use to believe the "It doesn't take money to make money" phrase. This phrase is incredibly dangerous because it hides reality.

@MoreValue Check out "Undercover Billioanire"...(Thread: HOT TOPIC - The Undercover Billionaire: Building a $1m business in 90 days)

You have a billioanire in his 50's going John Doe, getting thrown in a random rust belt town in PA..and with $200 and and old truck builds an amazing business in 3 months.

nobody knows who he is, no contacts, and especially no excuses.

His goal was to prove that the "american dream" is still alive, and he did just that.

There are countless other stories on this thread of people who started with no money and no contacts, and made it.

In fact, almost every success story on this forum was bootsrapped/side hustled into existence.

If you believe that it takes money to make money, then that will be your truth and reality.

If you believe you can be thrown in a random town with $200 and truck and make a million, that will be your truth and reality.

The common part is you and your beliefs..so whatever you decide to believe is going to be true for you.
 

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