Should I learn copywriting?

[klaipeda]

I've been in the software for the last 20 years, and I'm still working as a developer. This skill let me make some money to sustain my family (I have a wife and three kids). I'm working on my startup, and I built all the software on my own. To do that, I used the skill I have and the tools I know. The value of what I did so far in terms of code could cost easily two devs three months full time. Here in Australia, it could cost an estimate of ~100k AUD (~70k USD).

Now I need a copywriter, and after a lot of research, I found someone who can help me launch the MVP with the right foot. I'm not a copywriter. English's not my native language; therefore, I prefer to delegate.

What I didn't delegate is the development of the idea, the research over the competitors, the creation of the brand, and my business's identity. That is something that you cannot delegate. The takeaway here: you must learn how marketing works.

In other terms, being professional in coding can help a lot. I would not start to learn copywriting because it would be an excessive expenditure of energy while I already did my part, putting my skills on the plate.

In your position, I would continue with the development skills. The seniority level would require at least other 2-3 years. The skill you'll learn will help you create more businesses in the future.

Note: I'm doing a business, but I didn't create a profitable one yet, so that I could be wrong here. I share with you my humble opinions as a developer that is fighting hard to escape the rat race

 

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[Oso]

Hey guys,

I'm 17 and have been learning coding for just over a year now (see my first post) but recently came across copywriting that I think I'd be far better off learning and dedicating my time to to ultimately use as a profitable skill. As far as I understand, copywriting is essentially writing out text in a way that sells or advertises well. I think I'd be better suited for this as writing in a verbose tone has always been a pretty great talent of mine. I excel in these types of subjects at school. Should I build on this talent and dedicate myself to getting skilled in copywriting? Thank you for any responses or comment

Hey!

New member, but I'd like to toss my input, specifically from the coding/dev side. I'm a full-stack dev, doing web design and development on the side while in school. I would say 100% stick to coding (as you've already put 1 year into it and if you CAN code, you'll never really worry about money).

Copywriting is also 100% worth it. I've been personally educating myself on copywriting as I've learned developing (if you're the developer) and copywriting go hand-in-hand. It's difficult to deliver results to a client without some form of marketing/copywriting/etc.

As a final comment, I'd be more than happy to help you from the dev standpoint, should you ever need/want it (for free, of course -- I enjoy helping fellow developers). I'll leave the copywriting, marketing, etc. to people more qualified/experienced!

TL;DR: keep up the coding because realistically, you'll learn as you progress, and assuming you're the dev, you'll inevitably encounter a time where you need some form of understanding/experience with copywriting (marketing, etc.) in order to generate legitimate results for your clients (well, I had to, anyway).

P.S. If you DO continue with the coding/dev work, I encourage you to learn about smart contracts, NFTs, crypto, blockchain development, etc. Promise you, it's worth it.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Respectfully, marketing is NOT how GC built his business. He built his business through sales - knocking on doors and cold calling. 1000% without a doubt. No two ways about that. You and I now both know him today because of marketing. Which he discovered after he already had traction and mastered sales. Speaking of sales, it’s definitely not on the way out.

GC was basically broke back when he was building his sales training business mainly through sales. He may have had a net worth of a couple of millions, but that’s it. He didn’t have hundreads of millions.

What allowed him to build a net worth of hundreads of millions is discovering marketing. When he started putting out content and building a following on social media, THAT’s when he started truly getting rich. You can say that he tried selling for 50 years with mediocre results, and marketing for 10 with explosive results.

Marketing makes sales easy. If you market well, then you’re putting yourself in front of your target buyers and you’re providing value. It’s only a matter of time before they buy.

 

[Speed112]

Sorry, not a jab at you. Your post merely inspired me.

How easy is it to get those high quality offers? I saw you said something about top-tier copywriter. Is it worthwhile aiming for, say, compared to how "easy" it is to become an above average earning coder? And how do you get those high quality offers? Who do you call?

Also, do you know how well it compares to writing a book and self-publishing it (also relatively passive once you get it out there)? Say, "How To Ace Obscure Test X" or "How To Become X Profession," etc?

I guess I like the not-so-passive route, because once you have a company up and going, if the cashflow allows it, you can hire people to ease off your burden 4HWW-style. But yes, there's also up-front work in starting a company. Potentially a lot of up-front work. OTOH the upside of owning a cash-flowing company is pretty dang good, though. So that's one reason for doing it. IDK the other might be that it just feels good to be the baws xD

I don't know how easy it is... An above-average earning coder works full-time and makes low 6 figures a year?

An above-average earning copywriter can make the same part-time imo.

Self-publishing is no longer a viable avenue for passive income unless you use it to leverage other higher margin or higher perceived value things, such as courses or physical goods. I wouldn't recommend writing full-time unless you do erotic fiction or something or are at Stephen King level. Non-fiction kinda sucks now.

You don't need to be a top-tier copywriter to get hired to write high quality offers. You just need to be decent and put in the work. Finance, crypto, fitness, etc. are all niches full of publishers hungry for new angles and people churning out offers.

Depending on how good you are, you can make $2k, $3k, $5k, even $10k for a single offer through just the retainer. But you need to be top-tier for those offers to beat the control or to be profitable enough to run for extended periods of time and accrue significant royalties. A top-tier copywriter nails around 10-15% of offers. So you'd make $50k in a year from just writing 20-30h a month on some offer, and then $100-200k extra in royalties on the one that lands.

An "above-average" copywriter can churn out 3 offers a month working 4h a day and make mid 6 figures a year with a couple of passive streams from the occasional banger. It's not passive though, just like how programming isn't.

But the two are very similar in the sense of... you could have your own product and write an offer for that, or sell as an affiliate, and build passive streams like a programmer could build iOS apps or SaaS solutions.

I think the skillsets are different enough for the difficulty to not be comparable. It should be a factor of supply and demand, and there's plenty of demand for both, so I'd say they're both easy enough... if you're willing to put in the work and talk to the right people.

Who are those people? In the case of direct response copywriting... the guys who spend a ton of money on ads.

So turn off your adblocker, find the ads that are on the top and running profitably in the niche you want to write in, follow through the offer (like the one you will be writing) and get all the way to the company that put it out there. Usually some publishing company. If they're paying for ads, they've got money. Find their email. Find their office. Find the people who are in charge. Send them proof that you are fit to write for them... and they'll talk.

It's not that hard. You can also try regular recruitment channels (they're always hiring) but you give up a ton of leverage when you go through some HR gatekeeper.

I've done this a few times over the years, but not recently. It works quickly and efficiently if you know how to write killer proposals (which you should if you're applying for a copywriting gig) and I doubt much has changed since last time I tried it.

Your job as a copywriter, or as a programmer, or as an entrepreneur or whatever... it's all the same: you solve problems.

The bigger the problem, the more impact solving it has, the more money you make. Getting people to buy your stuff tends to be a pretty big problem that everyone always has.

Hope this helps.

 

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[Ismail941]

if you want money in the end as the last stage of making money, then yes!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Your angry little rant filled with false assumptions about me and my work says otherwise.

So I'll rephrase my question: Why are you mad?

I already told you I’m not mad?

As for “false assumptions” it’s simply impossible to be a great copywriter without having studied past masters. It’s like telling me you’re a great brain surgeon without ever having gone through med school.

There is no single great copywriter, and I will repeat this, not a single one, who hasn’t EXTENSIVELY studied the masters. Maybe not read their books, but they’ve studied their ads & campaigns. Go ahead and try to name a single one who hasnt done this.

Jay Abraham studies extensively Caples, Hopkins, Harvey Brody, and so on.

Dan Kennedy studied extensively under Halbert, as did John Carlton and Doberman Dan.

Halbert himself learned from Brody, Hopkins, Caples, Schwartz and so on.

Drayton Bird learned from all of them, on this orher side of the ocean. And I can go on and on and on…

There is not a single pro copywriter in this world who hasn’t studied the masters. And the explanation for that is simple…

Without studying the masters, you have no idea what makes a business work or not.

You can guess, and throw darts at a wall, but there’s a giant difference between that and knowledge. Experience only gives you so much, to be a pro you need to assimilate the experience of many others.

Being able to make money isn’t proof of being a pro. It has very little to do with it. There’s all sorts of people who make millions with very little know-how and in-depth understanding. They just stumbled across the right thing. It happens. But it’s better to learn to do it predictably, and understand what makes a promotion work vs another.

What Halbert was telling you above is probably the most important thing. You need a Big Idea behind the promotion that truly stands out, get people excited, and ready to pull out their wallets. Without that, it doesn’t matter how great your copy is… in fact, if you have a great Big Idea even bad copy will sell well.

You have no way of knowing these things without understanding the history of direct response, sorry pal.

 

[Simon Angel]

I already told you I’m not mad?

As for “false assumptions” it’s simply impossible to be a great copywriter without having studied past masters. It’s like telling me you’re a great brain surgeon without ever having gone through med school.

There is no single great copywriter, and I will repeat this, not a single one, who hasn’t EXTENSIVELY studied the masters. Maybe not read their books, but they’ve studied their ads & campaigns. Go ahead and try to name a single one who hasnt done this.

Jay Abraham studies extensively Caples, Hopkins, Harvey Brody, and so on.

Dan Kennedy studied extensively under Halbert, as did John Carlton and Doberman Dan.

Halbert himself learned from Brody, Hopkins, Caples, Schwartz and so on.

Drayton Bird learned from all of them, on this orher side of the ocean. And I can go on and on and on…

There is not a single pro copywriter in this world who hasn’t studied the masters. And the explanation for that is simple…

Without studying the masters, you have no idea what makes a business work or not.

You can guess, and throw darts at a wall, but there’s a giant difference between that and knowledge. Experience only gives you so much, to be a pro you need to assimilate the experience of many others.

Being able to make money isn’t proof of being a pro. It has very little to do with it. There’s all sorts of people who make millions with very little know-how and in-depth understanding. They just stumbled across the right thing. It happens. But it’s better to learn to do it predictably, and understand what makes a promotion work vs another.

What Halbert was telling you above is probably the most important thing. You need a Big Idea behind the promotion that truly stands out, get people excited, and ready to pull out their wallets. Without that, it doesn’t matter how great your copy is… in fact, if you have a great Big Idea even bad copy will sell well.

You have no way of knowing these things without understanding the history of direct response, sorry pal.

Are you aware of how closed-minded you are?

Following your flawless logic, how did the "masters" become masters if they had no masters before them to "assimilate"?

Also, comparing brain surgery to copywriting is the dumbest shit I read today.

Copywriting is writing entertaining words to influence someone to make a decision.

Brain surgery is all about precision, facts, and procedures.

And now, I'll have to take back my words:

You're not just a nerd. You're a silly nerd.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

LOOOOOOL! This is so sad it’s funny

Following your flawless logic, how did the "masters" become masters if they had no masters before them to "assimilate"?

By looking at those that came before them. Marketing is a relatively new field, came around in the 1800s and 1900s.

The first ones did a lot of experimenting with customer money. They looked at other ones who were successful. And over time, principles and practices emerged that can be studied and learned from. What worked became codified.

Those that we call “masters” are often not the early experimenters, but the second, and third waves that stood on the shoulders of giants so to speak and had a lot more data to learn from.

And by the way, the first brain surgeon did the same. Experimented, some people died, others lived, over time principles developed and we learned what works and what doesn’t. It took time. The first brain surgeon was significantly worse than a brain surgeon today.

Copywriting is writing entertaining words to influence someone to make a decision.

Copywriting is writing words that get people to give you their money. There is much more to it than words being entertaining, and in fact, in most cases they’re not.

As I said though, much more important than the words you use is the positioning and the idea behind the campaign. That governs the results much more than the words you use. Better words can lead to +10 to 30%. Better positioning, a better offer, a better idea behind the campaign can lead to +30-50x.

As I said, if you think you’re a pro without having studied the masters, you’re wrong buddy. To prove it to yourself, just try creating and selling your own product from scratch. Delusions will evaporate very soon, I promise.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

giving away all of his courses for "100% FREE" in the forum in a desperate attempt to build up his email list.

Dude… there is no email list. I’ve already built up my email lists, and sold many of those products, now I’m literarily giving them away for free.

Why would I need to create my own product when I'm a copywriter?

Because otherwise you won’t understand the causes of success. When selling other people’s products, if they picked the right product, if they already have a brand in place, if they already have 30 testimonials, and so on, then your copy is just the cherry on the cake… not that significant in terms of what’s causing them success.

Also, remember that customers are not a good judge for copy. Most of them know even less than you about it. And customers even less than that. Who cares if they enjoy it? Only question is if they’re pulling out their wallets and what’s making them pull out their wallets.

 

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[Simon Angel]

So you cucked out. Good one chicken!

View: https://youtu.be/iLwAjOGQcHo

Looks like you just finished copywriting kindergarten... some abysmal conversion rates right there by the looks of it. Making $400K in e-commerce isn't hard (especially when working with a huge business like the one above... EZ PZ). Let's talk about bottom line numbers. And preferably with a client you help start from scratch. I've had STUDENTS who made $1M starting from scratch. So you've got some catching up to do kiddo.

Lolz.

It's funny because you just keep showing me you're a fraud. You're talking shit about conversion rates without knowing anything about the client or the audience.

If you were such an expert and "master" as you shill yourself to be, you would have known there are way too many variables for you to simply judge from a picture.

Also, the above IS from scratch. They were earning NOTHING from email.

Show me case studies of your students and their clients.

 

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[Simon Angel]

Really? If I'm a fraud and I'm scamming people for years, where are all the people I've scammed? Nobody who paid me money ever said they were scammed. And this forum is quite a tightly knit community, if I was a scammer, at least SOMEONE would say something, wouldn't they? And believe me, I've interacted personally with over 500 people from here, many of whom have bought stuff from me.


Says the guy hiding behind a keyboard?

From now on, talk to me ONLY after you get your testosterone levels tested. I'll pay you $10K if you post your results here.

 

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[Simon Angel]

Tell me your real name first. If you're too scared, just DM it to me.

Nuh-uh Tudor. Test results first.

 

[Simon Angel]

So let me see if I've got this right... you're the one literarily hiding behind a keyboard and a fake name, and I'm the one whose name and everything else is public, and have no problems showing my face and taking you to skool here, but you think I'm the one with a testosterone problem? Really?

Test. Results.

 

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[Simon Angel]

kgullu must be chuffed to bits that he asked his question.

Dan

@kgullu You can PM me any time and I'll help you out as best I can without leading you into a sales funnel.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I personally recommend everyone learn copy as it changes your mindset significantly from a consumer to a producer, in all aspects of life.

It does... but imo it also skews your perspective in a way that's not 100% healthy to building a business.

Namely the copywriting mindset makes you think that, as Halbert used to say, "you're only one sales letter away from being rich". The goal is basically write this one promo, make money. That works, BUT, your offer better be something damn special targetted really well, typically to people who have bought something similar before.

Most businesses, by far, do not fall in that category. That's why most successful business owners out there have never studied copy. The mindset of most business people, as opposed to the one of copywriters, is persuasion through repetition.

Repeat the same message often enough, as Hitler said, and it becomes the truth. This is why big brand agencies invest a lot of money to create the right PR atmosphere and blast their messages through all possible channels.

Now as a beginner, you don't have the resources to do the same. But, if you start locally, you can also build brand. Think about someone like @Andy Black - he's built a brand in this community for Google Ads, and probably in a few other places as well. You can start locally offline, or online. But you'd still need to consider what your message is, and then repeat it often enough till it sticks and you build brand. The necessary condition here is that it's local - in the sense that the same viewer comes upon your message multiple times. If there are too many viewers, and the chances of them encountering your message again are virtually non-existent, then obviously any branding effort fails.

And I dare say that this is also the reason why Halbert was a feast and famine kinda guy... he was always broke because he never really built brand, and had to start from 0 with a new promo, even though he had promos that made him $1M/month.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Yeah I'm definitely not going to aim to make copywriting my cents based business goal I merely want to use it as a profitable skill as I know that can help on your fastlane journey

It’s a great skill to have. I started in copywriting myself !

 

[kebman]

How was your experience with copywriting could you expand further on that?

I was well liked. Or rather, my work was well liked. None of them really knew me since I worked remote. I worked for a contractor who reeled in all those companies you've heard about. It was my friend who got me in. He would keep on juggling, and as he needed some extra work he'd invite me along. I juggled some too, when he needed a break. Meaning that he juggled other copywriters that we outsourced our stuff to. Personally I did it just to check it out. It was OK, but he sadly never took it to the next level.

My experience; it was really frustrating and boring. The writing was easy enough, but the pay was rock bottom compared to what I'm used to. But sure I guess you can make a decent living in a cheap country of it, if you're very structured.

So.... Are you very structure? I am, but... the stress and boringness really got to me, and then the low pay and corpo attitude got to me even more (some of those mid levels are real aholes), so I decided to quit.

(With that said, I have some distant family who earns like a 100k a year on translating stuff, which is basically the same as copywriting, so depending on how you set up, you can do ok.)

Anyway, what I really wanted to do was encourage my friend to take his juggle act away from the contractors, and start his own business. But he was too much of a pussy to do that. He told me he hated administering, but it's administering - and selling big customers - that could've med both me and him the big money in that biz.

So why didn't I, then? Well, first off I had better opportunities. Second, I don't think it's worth losing a friendship over stealing his juggling act like that. It would just have been a dick move.

So sure, become a copywriter! Learn some SEO and silos. Do it for a year or two to get to know the biz, but dude.... Bro... You're not on the Fastlane Forum to become a copywriter, are you???

So when you're accomplished, start making friends that can write for you, and juggle. Outsource.

This is not advice, btw. This is entertainment. A cool story. If you follow this as advice (which it is not), then you risk getting fired or possible even getting sued if you juggle without the knowledge of the contractor.

Either way, when you master the juggle, then move the juggle away from the contractor and start your own copywriting / SEO business. (Again, not advice.....) Start reeling in your own fish, write contracts, and manage copywriters to do it for you. Then manage managers to do that for you, because you get bigger projects. Then go public, and retire off the dividends. Or something. I don't know. I never went that far myself, but I'm sure that's how you'd make the big mo on copywriting...

So what am I really trying to say here??? Well, first off the likelihood of earning good money on programming is bigger than earning big money on copywriting. But it would seem to me that starting a copywriting company is easier than starting a consulting or computer company. Because there's a ton more writers than there are programmers, and you basically just need a stable of willing writers to start a copywriting company. Then again you just need a stable of salesmen to start a sales company. And, hell, if you know a ton of programmers, then why not start a IT company?

Once you get to the administrative side of things, it really doesn't make a ton of difference. When you're there, it's more about knowing the business, but even more so, knowing how to sell and how to close a deal. But perhaps hire a lawyer to do the fine print. What do I know, I'm just thinking big here.

So perhaps what you should really do, instead of both learning to program or how to copywrite, is to learn how to sell. Because if you don't know how to sell, then it won't make a lick of difference what business you're in, you'll always stay on the floor and manning the steam engine, instead of doing the big stuff - and earning the big mo.

That's how my uncle did it. He outsold the directors at 18. The directors felt intimidated, and made him sell lower tier stuff. But the damage was already done. So he contacted a competitor, who decided to bet on him. He used the money to buy machines and start one of the first computer companies in Norway, in direct competition to the guys he sold for at first. If they'd just treated him nice, they'd kept him, and wouldn't have gone bankrupt because he steamrolled them with his own company at 20. I mean, he made it, but the success kinda made him a bit of an a**hole. But that's an entirely different story.

tl;dr programming > copywriting, but selling > programming & copywriting. Make. The. Deal. Write. The. Contract (hire a lawyer for the fine print tho). Then retire in your yacht.

 

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[Kaan Gullu]

I was well liked. Or rather, my work was well liked. None of them really knew me since I worked remote. I worked for a contractor who reeled in all those companies you've heard about. It was my friend who got me in. He would keep on juggling, and as he needed some extra work he'd invite me along. I juggled some too, when he needed a break. Meaning that he juggled other copywriters that we outsourced our stuff to. Personally I did it just to check it out. It was OK, but he sadly never took it to the next level.

My experience; it was really frustrating and boring. The writing was easy enough, but the pay was rock bottom compared to what I'm used to. But sure I guess you can make a decent living in a cheap country of it, if you're very structured.

So.... Are you very structure? I am, but... the stress and boringness really got to me, and then the low pay and corpo attitude got to me even more (some of those mid levels are real aholes), so I decided to quit.

(With that said, I have some distant family who earns like a 100k a year on translating stuff, which is basically the same as copywriting, so depending on how you set up, you can do ok.)

Anyway, what I really wanted to do was encourage my friend to take his juggle act away from the contractors, and start his own business. But he was too much of a pussy to do that. He told me he hated administering, but it's administering - and selling big customers - that could've med both me and him the big money in that biz.

So why didn't I, then? Well, first off I had better opportunities. Second, I don't think it's worth losing a friendship over stealing his juggling act like that. It would just have been a dick move.

So sure, become a copywriter! Learn some SEO and silos. Do it for a year or two to get to know the biz, but dude.... Bro... You're not on the Fastlane Forum to become a copywriter, are you???

So when you're accomplished, start making friends that can write for you, and juggle. Outsource.

This is not advice, btw. This is entertainment. A cool story. If you follow this as advice (which it is not), then you risk getting fired or possible even getting sued if you juggle without the knowledge of the contractor.

Either way, when you master the juggle, then move the juggle away from the contractor and start your own copywriting / SEO business. (Again, not advice.....) Start reeling in your own fish, write contracts, and manage copywriters to do it for you. Then manage managers to do that for you, because you get bigger projects. Then go public, and retire off the dividends. Or something. I don't know. I never went that far myself, but I'm sure that's how you'd make the big mo on copywriting...

So what am I really trying to say here??? Well, first off the likelihood of earning good money on programming is bigger than earning big money on copywriting. But it would seem to me that starting a copywriting company is easier than starting a consulting or computer company. Because there's a ton more writers than there are programmers, and you basically just need a stable of willing writers to start a copywriting company. Then again you just need a stable of salesmen to start a sales company. And, hell, if you know a ton of programmers, then why not start a IT company?

Once you get to the administrative side of things, it really doesn't make a ton of difference. When you're there, it's more about knowing the business, but even more so, knowing how to sell and how to close a deal. But perhaps hire a lawyer to do the fine print. What do I know, I'm just thinking big here.

So perhaps what you should really do, instead of both learning to program or how to copywrite, is to learn how to sell. Because if you don't know how to sell, then it won't make a lick of difference what business you're in, you'll always stay on the floor and manning the steam engine, instead of doing the big stuff - and earning the big mo.

That's how my uncle did it. He outsold the directors at 18. The directors felt intimidated, and made him sell lower tier stuff. But the damage was already done. So he contacted a competitor, who decided to bet on him. He used the money to buy machines and start one of the first computer companies in Norway, in direct competition to the guys he sold for at first. If they'd just treated him nice, they'd kept him, and wouldn't have gone bankrupt because he steamrolled them with his own company at 20. I mean, he made it, but the success kinda made him a bit of an a**hole. But that's an entirely different story.

tl;dr programming > copywriting, but selling > programming & copywriting. Make. The. Deal. Write. The. Contract (hire a lawyer for the fine print tho). Then retire in your yacht.

Thanks for the detailed response. I'm basically asking because I'm juggling what skill to commit myself to. I DO NOT intend to make copywriting or programming my career but just use it as a way to gain side income and now that I think about it I guess build up my network as well. I'm 17 and have been learning coding for just under a year and a half but I started to question it because i don't truly have a passion for it and because to be deeply honest I don't know if I want to step up to that next level to start earning actual decent income but I'm not fully sure on that feeling yet. So basically here's a rundown, I've been learning frontend for just under a year and a half and am starting to doubt it, Copywriting seems to me to match my traits and skills and something I could do pretty well in. Someone also recommended backend development to me but I haven't looked into that yet.

 

[MichaelPSkipper]

Here's an interesting letter from Gary Halbert that made me think about you @kgullu - what do you think?

Thanks for sharing this work. Copywriting is something I plan to study and his examples are inspiring.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Once the product is ready, you won't need to spend a lot of time on it anymore. It is earning money for you, just as MJ describes in his books. Writing copy is limited to the number of hours that you can work on it.

But as you are 17 years old and more looking for a side hustle, this probably not really applicable. In your case, I would choose copy-writing as it seems it gives you more joy.

Does this product sell itself?

 

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[Kaan Gullu]

Hey guys,

I'm 17 and have been learning coding for just over a year now (see my first post) but recently came across copywriting that I think I'd be far better off learning and dedicating my time to to ultimately use as a profitable skill. As far as I understand, copywriting is essentially writing out text in a way that sells or advertises well. I think I'd be better suited for this as writing in a verbose tone has always been a pretty great talent of mine. I excel in these types of subjects at school. Should I build on this talent and dedicate myself to getting skilled in copywriting? Thank you for any responses or comments.

 

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[Kaan Gullu]

Watch out for shiny object syndrome.

Coding is a great skill. Copywriting can also be that.

But you don't need to be great at everything.

Pick one thing and stick to it.

If you've already been coding for one year, I say don't switch now

Watch out for shiny object syndrome.

Coding is a great skill. Copywriting can also be that.

But you don't need to be great at everything.

Pick one thing and stick to it.

If you've already been coding for one year, I say don't switch now.

Yeah I definitely see what you mean. I think I'll introduce myself with the basics of copywriting and see how it goes for the first couple of weeks before making the decision. I'll update you if you don't mind.

 

[Kaan Gullu]

If you're already good at writing entertaining shit then just go for it. You don't need to learn anything. Just start applying for copywriting gigs.

Most copywriters I've seen so far would be better off calling themselves "copypasters" because they all seem to regurgitate the same crap they read from X famous copywriting book or course. I know zero famous copywriters and took zero courses and I'm doing pretty good. I did, however, have a lot of business knowledge from my past successes and failures, and seeing as you're 17, I doubt you could say the same. Nevertheless, getting your hands dirty is the way to go.I

I think I'll just introduce myself to the basics and if I feel its right go straight into it and see what happens from there.

 

[Simon Angel]

Here's an interesting letter from Gary Halbert that made me think about you @kgullu - what do you think?

I had no idea who Gary Halbert was before opening this letter a few minutes ago to read a few paragraphs... And I found it pretty boring right from the start.

 

[Simon Angel]

More like amused to be honest with you

Your angry little rant filled with false assumptions about me and my work says otherwise.

So I'll rephrase my question: Why are you mad?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Also, the above IS from scratch. They were earning NOTHING from email.

- yep, that's why they had a physical location, because it's from scratch my a$$.

Opening up a new marketing channel when you've got others working isn't the biggest challenge, especially for a strong, established organization.

When I say from scratch, I literarily mean with nothing. No prior business, no prior market, no NOTHING.

Show me case studies of your students and their clients.

Head to my personal website, and you'll find them. You can find the video of a guy who used a lot of my stuff to scale to $1M+ there. You can find results of $500K+ I've obtained for a single client by just doing a few tweaks. Join my discord group, check my course there under #paid-products, and you'll find others. I've got no reason to prove myself to you. YOU are the one desperately trying to validate yourself.

I've already made my points to you and I consider this discussion finished. Go on in your ignorance.

 

[Simon Angel]

I've got no reason to prove myself to you. YOU are the one desperately trying to validate yourself.

I've already made my points to you and I consider this discussion finished. Go on in your ignorance.

You have ALL the reasons to prove yourself because you're a fraud and scamming people on the forum for years. I'm not clicking on your dreadful site and giving you traffic.

Yeah, I got your point. You took offense that I found your life-long idols boring to read which summoned the keyboard warrior in you.

Because where else would someone like you be able to talk in such a brave manner?

[removed by a mod]

I could smell the estrogen from here.

 

[Simon Angel]

Dude, you're the guy who is afraid his wife will cheat on him, and YOU'RE talking about testosterone. I'm dying...

But I might post my results, and then when you refuse to pay me, chase you for that money in court, which I would do, if only you weren't hiding behind a fake name.

LOL! I'm waiting

 

[Kaan Gullu]

I personally recommend everyone learn copy as it changes your mindset significantly from a consumer to a producer, in all aspects of life. It makes life more calmer, more "zen" because you can see how your desires are manipulated desires and not your real desires. You don't really desire the lamborghini you desire what you think people will think of you driving the lamborghini...or rather what the adverts tell you people will think of you, when often the polar opposite is true and most people will think you're a nob who deserves to be robbed, due to their consumer mindset being influenced by expert copywriters shilling socialism...

Start with the Boron letters. You don't need to read them, just write them out by hand. Doing that causes neuron pathways to grown in the brain and is far more efficient than reading material.

If you want to see how effective copy is on the populace in general, I would refer you to the guy who sold cigarettes to women, and the guy who sold fluoride (a toxic waste byproduct) to the public as a dental aid.

Toxic Treatment: Fluoride's Transformation from Industrial Waste to Public Health Miracle | Origins

While Florida calls itself the Sunshine State, from a geological and economic perspective, it could just as accurately be known as the Phosphate State. The so-called Bone Valley of central Florida contains some of the largest phosphate deposits in the world, which supply global agriculture with...

origins.osu.edu

Right so I have the book now should I just write it all out?

 

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[nothingness]

The problem with Halbert was, he was just a copywriter. He wasn't fastlane because his work came and went, just like cpa affiliate marketers when the offer closes. You don't need to be a copywriter to use copywriting. It's an essential skill I think everyone should learn but not to become a copywriter but to become a more successful human.

That said, if you were to alter your business model to take an equity slice for the company you are working for instead of cash, you could make it into a very fast lane business model.