Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.

[Bosstradamus]

Walter,

I'm dealing with a few manufacturers at the moment since I am wanting to test a number of products. I'm requesting quantities of 100 units. For most of my products this is no problem. However I do have one where they just told me the MOQ is 2000pcs. This sounds a bit high to me. I requested a trial order of 100. What verbiage should I use to rebuttal their 2000? Should I even try, or just move on?

Thanks in advance. You're a god send.

 

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[Walter Hay]

Walter,

I'm dealing with a few manufacturers at the moment since I am wanting to test a number of products. I'm requesting quantities of 100 units. For most of my products this is no problem. However I do have one where they just told me the MOQ is 2000pcs. This sounds a bit high to me. I requested a trial order of 100. What verbiage should I use to rebuttal their 2000? Should I even try, or just move on?

Thanks in advance. You're a god send.

You thank them politely, then say that your boss won't allow you to order so many until he has tested the product and done some test marketing.

Ask for a trial order of 100, and if they don't cooperate, you should move on.

 

[NYCGoblin]

Hey Walter, I am purchasing your ebook now. I was importing and selling from Nov 2014-April 2015 but then my products died. I made a great amount of money for my first venture, but am ready to get back into it and actually build something sustainable. I look forward to coming back to you with updated progress and a few questions. Thank you for making this thread and putting your knowledge out there.

 

[Walter Hay]

Hey Walter, I am purchasing your ebook now. I was importing and selling from Nov 2014-April 2015 but then my products died. I made a great amount of money for my first venture, but am ready to get back into it and actually build something sustainable. I look forward to coming back to you with updated progress and a few questions. Thank you for making this thread and putting your knowledge out there.

I look forward to your progress reports. Don't forget that this is a public forum, so don't post sensitive information. Use my PM for that.

Regards,
Walter

 

[Texan]

Great thread Walter! Any advice from a cultural perspective on dealing with Japanese manufacturers? Thanks!

 

[Walter Hay]

Great thread Walter! Any advice from a cultural perspective on dealing with Japanese manufacturers? Thanks!

Dealing with Manufacturers in Japan. While there are many similarities in dealing with manufacturers in China and Japan, there are some notable differences.

Possibly the most important I have found from my experience is that Japanese suppliers will always supply what they promise, and on time or before. (Usually exactly on time.) It is very common for a Japanese business to surpass their promises regarding quality and attention to detail. For them, customer satisfaction is paramount, and in fact is a matter of honor.

If they say yes, that means yes, whereas in China that response can have a very wide range of meanings all the way through to meaning no. They won't say yes when they mean not, but generalized answers to your questions are not due to them being evasive, but simply their way of trying to avoid offending you. Little by little you will get the full information, but it might need patience.

Negotiations must be done slowly and gently. Don't try too hard or too quickly to get a lower price. They may be willing to give a much lower price, but will not do so if you are seen as too pushy. They would rather do without your business.

Building a relationship with a Japanese manufacturer requires a slow and painstaking process. Observe politeness and avoid much personal comment or worse still, questions. You can be very business-like and forma, because that is seen as evidence of your

If visiting Japan, note that formalities are even more important in Japan than in China. For example, exchange of business cards is even more ceremonial for Japanese business people than it is for Chinese. Give or receive a business card with both hands, not one. If seated during the transaction, place the card on the table near you and leave it there until discussions end. Then place it in your business card holder. Don't just put it in your pocket or wallet. Whereas in China, an English only card is acceptable (though not totally desirable), in Japan it is imperative to have one side printed in Japanese, otherwise you will cause offence.

Because of the importance of etiquette, I suggest spending a few dollars on "Etiquette Guide to Japan: Know the Rules that Make the Difference!" by Boye Lafayette De Mente. If you can wait, I suggest delaying your purchase until the latest edition is released on September 15.

 

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[QDF]

Hi Walter,

I'm dealing with a new manufacturer right now, and I remember reading that if they accept payment in any form to an individual instead of company name, it should set off a red flag.

They accept payment through wire transfer or by Western Union. The bank information for a wire transformation is the company name and everything; the Western Union payment information is to an individual name, who they said was their boss.

The company seems legit, but I'm still on the fence a little bit.


I'm probably going to go ahead with the samples. The samples are only roughly $100 so it wouldn't be too much to lose.

Also, do you think a group thats trying to rip you off would go through on a couple small, initial orders and then try to rip you off on a larger order once they have your trust?

 

[Walter Hay]

Hi Walter,

I'm dealing with a new manufacturer right now, and I remember reading that if they accept payment in any form to an individual instead of company name, it should set off a red flag.

They accept payment through wire transfer or by Western Union. The bank information for a wire transformation is the company name and everything; the Western Union payment information is to an individual name, who they said was their boss.

The company seems legit, but I'm still on the fence a little bit.


I'm probably going to go ahead with the samples. The samples are only roughly $100 so it wouldn't be too much to lose.

Also, do you think a group thats trying to rip you off would go through on a couple small, initial orders and then try to rip you off on a larger order once they have your trust?

Payment by T/T to an individual can be OK if you have thoroughly checked them out and know for certain that the individual is the owner.

Never pay via WU unless you have established a working relationship with them and know from experience that you can trust them.

In answer to your question: YES. The devious methods used by scammers can be even more tricky than that. Remember, scammers have experience in scamming and they do it well. It is not uncommon for them to work a long con.

 

[mikeobi]

Hi Walter,

So I've found a product that I want to import and I've been browsing through different suppliers. I found one with a really awesome price and even accepts payment via PayPal. The only thing I'm concerned about is there 38% response rate. Is this something to turn away from or just try anyway?

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Walter Hay]

Hi Walter,

So I've found a product that I want to import and I've been browsing through different suppliers. I found one with a really awesome price and even accepts payment via PayPal. The only thing I'm concerned about is there 38% response rate. Is this something to turn away from or just try anyway?

Thanks for all your help!

Hi Mike, I would not be worried about the response rate. It could well be that this supplier has tired of the large number of newbies requesting quotes, samples, etc., and only replies to those who use the right approach.

It is their response to you that counts. Was it prompt? Did it answer your questions? Was it courteous? Did the answers sound as though they want to do business and are helpful?

Walter

 

[daylight]

Hi Walter!

Thank you so much for thw advice on ur book and seeing how selfless you are on this forum is so inspiring. I'm just halfway through reading your book.

I have some questions on my niche - I am looking to import an edible product(B2C) from Indonesia to Singapore. the supplier is a relative's friend whom I can trust. He also owns the farm of the product so technically I would consider him as manufacturer. In addition I am heading to his farm to validate the product. I am considering importing the product from him but am doing this the first time. Will appreciate some advice:

- supplier currently only supplies locally in Indonesia, does not have export permit. In this case, is it advisable for me to register a company in Indonesia and apply for export licence?
- i have tried testing Singapore market for demand, but response have been poor. Because of the nature of this product, traditionally there is not much product differentiation, only brand and price differentiation. In this case, I like to understand if this product is aa viable product to bring in.

I can PM you the niche if it helps you understand the situation better.

Appreciate your help!

 

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[Walter Hay]

Hi Walter!

Thank you so much for thw advice on ur book and seeing how selfless you are on this forum is so inspiring. I'm just halfway through reading your book.

I have some questions on my niche - I am looking to import an edible product(B2C) from Indonesia to Singapore. the supplier is a relative's friend whom I can trust. He also owns the farm of the product so technically I would consider him as manufacturer. In addition I am heading to his farm to validate the product. I am considering importing the product from him but am doing this the first time. Will appreciate some advice:

- supplier currently only supplies locally in Indonesia, does not have export permit. In this case, is it advisable for me to register a company in Indonesia and apply for export licence?
- i have tried testing Singapore market for demand, but response have been poor. Because of the nature of this product, traditionally there is not much product differentiation, only brand and price differentiation. In this case, I like to understand if this product is aa viable product to bring in.

I can PM you the niche if it helps you understand the situation better.

Appreciate your help!

The first thing you need to do is to check the local regulations on import of food products. You can probably get most answers from the AVA site here: http://www.ava.gov.sg

Indonesian export licenses, taxes etc., could prove an obstacle. The Directorate General For National Export Development usually seems unwilling to tell you very much and you will need to get advice from an Indonesian freight forwarder. There is a freight forwarder's association in Indonesia and you can find members here: http://ilfa.or.id/ You will most likely need to use a forwarder at least for your first shipment.

You will probably need to register a company in Indonesia unless your supplier is willing to obtain export licenses with your assistance. I believe that you will only be allowed 49% ownership, so you will need a local partner. I can't confirm this for you.

If you PM me details of the niche, I may be able to help more.

Regards,
Walter

 

[Heatherjack]

Hi, this is for Walter Hay. I was wondering where to get your book? I can only find one thread through PAC. Is that the only way to get it? I live in Australia. I want to do this, but there is so little info for people who live outside the USA. I only have a small amount of capital to start with (under $1000) Can you start small with PL and then reinvest to build a good biz? Just wanting to touch base. Thanks and regards, Heather

 

[Walter Hay]

Hi, this is for Walter Hay. I was wondering where to get your book? I can only find one thread through PAC. Is that the only way to get it? I live in Australia. I want to do this, but there is so little info for people who live outside the USA. I only have a small amount of capital to start with (under $1000) Can you start small with PL and then reinvest to build a good biz? Just wanting to touch base. Thanks and regards, Heather

Hi Heather, You can find my book at Proven Global Sourcing - Proven Global Sourcing.

It is certainly possible to start with $1,000. I have had emails from a number of my book users who have built successful businesses after starting with as little as $300. Although the very high margins help, it is a slow process at that level, but on $1,000 it can be quite fast, provided you have the marketing side carefully researched.

Because you intend doing PL, let me know via PM when you are ready to start, and I will send you a small article that I have written about how to actually obtain the labels and what alternative label types there are. When operating my importing business, almost every order I and my franchisees placed carried my brand name and/or logo, and because of product diversity, the labels took many different forms.

Regards,
Walter

 

[SharkWrestler1]

Thank you so much for this thread and your book Walter.

I've read both over the last week or so and both are an absolute gold mine of information for importing.

I will be opening negotiations with suppliers this week!

 

[mikeobi]

Hi Walter

I'm in negotiations with one supplier that takes T/T only. Would T/T be the equivalent to wire transfer with the transfer fee still applying? Also, is it common for the supplier to have a different FOB price than listed? So far every supplier who I've contacted has a higher price than listed. For example, they may have the FOB price $2-$3 but say $7 when we negotiate through email. One more thing, some suppliers have quoted me "sample charges" that are like 100-150 dollars and shipping charges of 90 and above for just 5 units. Does that make sense?

Thank you,
Mike

 

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[Bosstradamus]

Walter (or anyone),

Have you ever used this sit before: http://www.exportbureau.com/ ?
If so is it reputable or accurate?

Right now I'm working on testing a 3rd and 4th product since the 1st two did not sell as well as I had hoped. These products are in different niches so I am looking at other manufacturers.

I tried looking through your favored b2b site but when I filter companies with d&b, certificate verified etc.. i get back only 1-4 results if that. Is this normal?

Aside from using the b2b sites and going to China what other methods do you know of? If hiring a sourcing agent is one is there a company/person that you recommend going through? (pm me on this one if you prefer)

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter (or anyone),

Have you ever used this sit before: http://www.exportbureau.com/ ?
If so is it reputable or accurate?

Right now I'm working on testing a 3rd and 4th product since the 1st two did not sell as well as I had hoped. These products are in different niches so I am looking at other manufacturers.

Walter, in your book you mention what you think is the best b2b site for sourcing. I tried looking through there but when I filter companies with d&b, certificate verified etc.. i get back only 1-4 results if that. Is this normal?

Aside from using the b2b sites and going to China what other methods do you know of? If hiring a sourcing agent is one is there a company/person that you recommend going through? (pm me on this one if you prefer)

That exportbureau site is one of hundreds like it. They do no verification of sellers, and provided a seller will pay them $5 for your name, they will pass on your details. You will be working completely blind until you find out who your mystery supplier is.

You will undoubdtedly find a lot more suppliers on the other site that I recommend. (Please keep the name to yourself.) If those B2B sites don't provide what you need, you should also look at the section 14.3 in my book. I can help you further if that method is not suitable for you as well. Just PM me and I will help.

Sourcing agents can be of assistance as a last resort, but finding one you can trust and who does not charge too much is the problem. I can recommend one who is a qualified Chinese lawyer, but he runs a sourcing service. If all else fails I will send you his contact details.

Walter

 

[Robert Ferguson]

Thanks for the thread Walter, I will be going through the numerous pages In detail later.

I'm also purchasing your book seeing as I hear many good things.

My question to you is, what do you think about the future of the common system some of us have here? Getting great margins, Importing straight from the manufacturer/supplier in China, Branding these products, Selling on Amazon.

A few members here have mentioned that the manufacturers they use have asked them questions about Amazon. Also mentioning, what happens when they figure out that they can go to Amazon directly? (I know a few do this, yet their listings are horrible)

Any input of yours is greatly appreciated.
Thank you!

 

[TTG SS]

Walter,

Is it common for Alibaba to have many more "listings" for a certain product compared to the sources you mention in your book?

The product I am looking for does not have plentiful listings on the sources you recommend, however, on Alibaba there are pages full. Perhaps this is product specific in this case. Any insight on this? I would obviously much prefer to work with a real manufacturer. Perhaps I could show the real manufacturer a picture of the desired product and they could work with me to design it. There are only minor differences across the board on this range of products, so I would imagine it is not overly difficult.

I am looking to make slight modifications to the product and brand it.

I appreciate any insight on this.

 

[Lukebrisbane]

I want to import a dressing for skin that falls under medicine, i want to manufacture it and possibly add a few things into the ingredients, where and what should I look into getting the approvals for the product?

 

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[Walter Hay]

Thanks for the thread Walter, I will be going through the numerous pages In detail later.

I'm also purchasing your book seeing as I hear many good things.

My question to you is, what do you think about the future of the common system some of us have here? Getting great margins, Importing straight from the manufacturer/supplier in China, Branding these products, Selling on Amazon.

A few members here have mentioned that the manufacturers they use have asked them questions about Amazon. Also mentioning, what happens when they figure out that they can go to Amazon directly? (I know a few do this, yet their listings are horrible)

Any input of yours is greatly appreciated.
Thank you!

Hi Robert,

I do worry about shipping direct to Amazon, not only because Chinese sellers are likely to catch on to the possibilities, but also Amazon tend to be predatory and sellers who ship direct from their suppliers are making it easier for Amazon to become competitors.

There is no doubt that most Chinese exporters lack the western mindset and English skills necessary to succeed on Amazon, and will be likely to sell on price alone. Price is not the first priority for most buyers, so they won't necessarily take over the market, but they might make it slightly more competitive.

I think the market is so vast that there is still huge scope for newcomers to enter and succeed, provided they do their market research, buy at the best possible prices, buy quality that will gain repeat business and good feedback, and find a real USP. Margins are possible that should allow shipping to a prepping service rather than direct.

As a small hint I would mention that when I wanted simple work done, either assembly, minor production, or envelope stuffing for direct mail, I used the services of charities employing intellectually handicapped people. Their work ethic was unbeatable, they were diligent to the point that quality control checks were hardly necessary, and it was a pleasure meeting and talking to them as they enthusiastically went about trying to please me. Depending on the product complexities, some of those people would be capable of checking that the products in your shipment were undamaged, complete, working, and if necessary they could re-pack them.

Walter

 

[Walter Hay]

I want to import a dressing for skin that falls under medicine, i want to manufacture it and possibly add a few things into the ingredients, where and what should I look into getting the approvals for the product?

The therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) in Australia administer such things, but it won't be easy getting information from them. They are one of those bureaucracies that expect you to know it all.

Emergo http://www.emergogroup.com can provide a lot of help, or a licensed customs broker specialising in medical devices or therapeutic goods could if you can find one, but they will charge you for their advice unless you can convince them that you will be getting them to handle your imports.

You can usually add a lot of beneficial ingredients provided you don't make any claim that they are beneficial. If you claim therapeutic benefit the process of obtaining approval will be slow and costly. The TGA tend to follow the US FDA, although sometimes they insist on doing it their own way, but if the product already has a CE marking, it will almost certainly be approved by the TGA.

Walter

 

[AJG]

Walter, I have a niche market in mind that i would like to test but i'm having trouble finding suppliers that carry new/unique products not yet sold in the US. how would you approach finding a reliable but yet obscure supplier that importers haven't caught onto yet?

 

[Robert Ferguson]

Hi Robert,

I do worry about shipping direct to Amazon, not only because Chinese sellers are likely to catch on to the possibilities, but also Amazon tend to be predatory and sellers who ship direct from their suppliers are making it easier for Amazon to become competitors.

There is no doubt that most Chinese exporters lack the western mindset and English skills necessary to succeed on Amazon, and will be likely to sell on price alone. Price is not the first priority for most buyers, so they won't necessarily take over the market, but they might make it slightly more competitive.

I think the market is so vast that there is still huge scope for newcomers to enter and succeed, provided they do their market research, buy at the best possible prices, buy quality that will gain repeat business and good feedback, and find a real USP. Margins are possible that should allow shipping to a prepping service rather than direct.

As a small hint I would mention that when I wanted simple work done, either assembly, minor production, or envelope stuffing for direct mail, I used the services of charities employing intellectually handicapped people. Their work ethic was unbeatable, they were diligent to the point that quality control checks were hardly necessary, and it was a pleasure meeting and talking to them as they enthusiastically went about trying to please me. Depending on the product complexities, some of those people would be capable of checking that the products in your shipment were undamaged, complete, working, and if necessary they could re-pack them.

Walter

Thank you for this great response Walter. It helps clear the concern up a bit. I appreciate your time!

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter, I have a niche market in mind that i would like to test but i'm having trouble finding suppliers that carry new/unique products not yet sold in the US. how would you approach finding a reliable but yet obscure supplier that importers haven't caught onto yet?

One way that requires a lot of caution is to scroll through the pages covering your category in a B2B site (preferably not Alibaba because that increases your workload), and look for unverified members. Your due diligence on any such suppliers will have to be more thorough than usual.

Possibly a better alternative is to go to one of the other country sourcing links in my book and search there. Everyone wants to buy from China, but you can more easily find unique products in other countries.

Walter

 

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[TTG SS]

Walter,

Is it common for Alibaba to have many more "listings" for a certain product compared to the sources you mention in your book?

The product I am looking for does not have plentiful listings on the sources you recommend, however, on Alibaba there are pages full. Perhaps this is product specific in this case. Any insight on this? I would obviously much prefer to work with a real manufacturer. Perhaps I could show the real manufacturer a picture of the desired product and they could work with me to design it. There are only minor differences across the board on this range of products, so I would imagine it is not overly difficult.

I am looking to make slight modifications to the product and brand it.

I appreciate any insight on this.

Any input on this, Walter?

Thank you for your help.

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter,

Is it common for Alibaba to have many more "listings" for a certain product compared to the sources you mention in your book?

The product I am looking for does not have plentiful listings on the sources you recommend, however, on Alibaba there are pages full. Perhaps this is product specific in this case. Any insight on this? I would obviously much prefer to work with a real manufacturer. Perhaps I could show the real manufacturer a picture of the desired product and they could work with me to design it. There are only minor differences across the board on this range of products, so I would imagine it is not overly difficult.

I am looking to make slight modifications to the product and brand it.

I appreciate any insight on this.

Sorry I missed your post.

It is very common for Alibaba to have a substantially bigger number of listings for a particular product than you will find on the safe sites that I recommend.

The reason is that Alibaba is seen as a short cut to riches by many young Chinese entrepreneurs who have few resources , but think that a listing on Alibaba will bring them wealth. A large number of the traders listed on Alibaba, supposedly as manufacturers, are in this category.

Here's how the system works for most traders:

1. They get a free listing on Alibaba, at least as verified suppliers.
   
2. It might not bring in any orders, so, if they have a small amount of capital they buy a Gold Supplier badge.
   
3. So far, no real checking is done except to see if they at least do have a physical address and have registered a business.
   
4. They advertise, usually at a low price with a high MOQ.
   
5. Buyers make inquiries and they hurriedly contact manufacturers in the hope of finding one that will supply them.
   
6. They then load their margin on and quote you.
   
7. They will usually not reduce the MOQ, because they fear that the manufacturer either won't supply, or will increase the price.
   
8. If the price looks good and you order, they take your deposit and place an order with the manufacturer.
   
9. Sometimes, if they have an idea of the usual price, they will not follow step 5 until they have received your deposit. This is why many orders with traders result in deposits being refunded - that is assuming the trader is honest. In that case all you have lost is time, your bank fees, and lost use of your money while they hold it.
   
10. They rank low in the manufacturer's estimation, so orders are often slow.

On another forum, a seller who has a substantial eCommerce business and has lived in China for many years has stated that only about 1% of suppliers listed on Alibaba as manufacturers really are. I think that is an exaggeration, but other Chinese members on that forum have posted from time to time saying that most suppliers listed say they are manufacturers because that is what westerners want.

This is a long-winded way of telling you that a small number of genuine listings is better than a large number of non genuine ones.

Walter

 

[SEBASTlAN]

So I read the entire thread and from what you've said, we should NOT import electronics from China.

At the moment I have some headphone samples coming in. I guess I should just cut my losses on that? What's the alternative?

 

[ddzc]

So I read the entire thread and from what you've said, we should NOT import electronics from China.

At the moment I have some headphone samples coming in. I guess I should just cut my losses on that? What's the alternative?

I've imported iptv electronics from China and most have been pretty good quality, hardware wise. A few had software problems.

Headphones are easy to produce. You just need to ensure the quality in the speakers are good and following proper sourcing strategies and with the right testing of samples, you shouldn't have any problems. I even ordered beats headphones once from aliexpress for 3 bucks, they worked perfectly until I accidentally ripped the wires out of the circuit board.

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