Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.

[Walter Hay]

Thank you so much! You give such valuable information. I will definitely keep this in mind. I sent an inquiry to a Chinese supplier yesterday, however, I think they're actually a trading company. *Sigh* I see why you don't recommend Alibaba.... I don't trust this site either, but I can't find any other suppliers with the products I want.

Hi Chantal,

Some people think I am being mean because I won't publish details of the safe sites that I recommend in my book as an alternative to Alibaba, DHGate, Tradekey and the like, but as those who use my book have found, there is a lot more to safe product sourcing than just knowing which safe sites to use.

I have helped quite a few Fastlaners locate products that they have found on Alibaba, but they have been unhappy with the dubious suppliers there. Unfortunately I am becoming overwhelmed by such requests, so I have to draw the line now.

This highlights one reason why I don't give my book away free. The support I give to my book readers is very time consuming, and my trained support team (who are paid) are also kept busy.

I can assure you that if the products are available from suppliers on Alibaba, it will almost certainly be possible to find trustworthy real manufacturers elsewhere, but for newbies without training that can be a very slow process.

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[Walter Hay]

Thank you very much, I've sent you a message.

Check you PMs. I think you are in for a pleasant surprise. I found a genuine manufacturer for you.

I am confident that you will find their CE Certificate is genuine, and their price is better than the trader you found on Alibaba.

 

[QDF]

If they have a .cn website that makes your task a lot easier, because the Chinese government requires all companies to display an ICP number on their websites. If there is one, the business is genuine and a genuine business is far less likely to lie about the nature of the business, so their claim to be manufacturers is quite likely true. If no ICP number you should forget about dealing with them.

I know this is going back a ways, but would the same still apply if they have a .com website with an ICP number?

I've found quite a few manufacturers that have an ICP and everything, but still have one thing that makes them seem like a trader.

I've started trusting Alibaba a lot less after reading this thread.

 

[Walter Hay]

I know this is going back a ways, but would the same still apply if they have a .com website with an ICP number?

I've found quite a few manufacturers that have an ICP and everything, but still have one thing that makes them seem like a trader.

I've started trusting Alibaba a lot less after reading this thread.

There is no reason why a supplier would show an ICP number on a .com site. It probably just shows that they don't understand the law, and it does not provide any evidence to suggest that they are manufacturers and not traders.

It is obviously best to buy from genuine manufacturers, and the amateur gurus who almost universally say to search for them on Alibaba are doing a great disservice to those who trust them for guidance.

Most of them still say only deal with Gold Suppliers, but I have shown in this thread that such expert advice is nonsense. Such misinformation is all over the web, and can be found in courses ranging from free to $5,000.

That misinformation is one of the biggest Barriers to Entry. It slows people down, and costs them massive amounts in lost profits.

 

[Chantal]

Hi Chantal,

Some people think I am being mean because I won't publish details of the safe sites that I recommend in my book as an alternative to Alibaba, DHGate, Tradekey and the like, but as those who use my book have found, there is a lot more to safe product sourcing than just knowing which safe sites to use.

I have helped quite a few Fastlaners locate products that they have found on Alibaba, but they have been unhappy with the dubious suppliers there. Unfortunately I am becoming overwhelmed by such requests, so I have to draw the line now.

This highlights one reason why I don't give my book away free. The support I give to my book readers is very time consuming, and my trained support team (who are paid) are also kept busy.

I can assure you that if the products are available from suppliers on Alibaba, it will almost certainly be possible to find trustworthy real manufacturers elsewhere, but for newbies without training that can be a very slow process.

Hi, Walter

I hope you don't think I was expecting you to give me a list of suppliers. I actually have your book so I'm familiar with the ones you list, but even if I didn't have it I'd just find suppliers on my own. (I'd already found several of the suppliers in your book before I purchased it.) I was just expressing my frustration. I don't get how people make sense of that site, everything just seems so fishy. Anyhoo, I'll keep searching. Thanks.

 

[eticket]

Walter:

I just joined this forum because of you. I really respect your knowledge, experience and opinions about importing, and realize you are a walking encyclopedia on the subject.

I've been studying the methods you teach in your book for about 2 weeks now. Recently, I received an SGS report from a company verified in the report as a manufacturer; however, in Section 1 where it asks, "Does the company have a valid import and export license?" the 'No' box is checked. Is this a concern for exporting/importing this company's goods from China into the U.S.?

Secondly, I received a price list from a "manufacturer" who I have not verified as such yet (bec they didn't include their SGS report). One product retails on the Internet for $18.99 but the company's wholesale price is $11.20. This seems outrageously high! Do you think this is really a trader in manufacturer's clothing? If needed, I would be happy to post or forward the product info.

Thank you very much!

eticket

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[Walter Hay]

Hi, Walter

I hope you don't think I was expecting you to give me a list of suppliers. I actually have your book so I'm familiar with the ones you list, but even if I didn't have it I'd just find suppliers on my own. (I'd already found several of the suppliers in your book before I purchased it.) I was just expressing my frustration. I don't get how people make sense of that site, everything just seems so fishy. Anyhoo, I'll keep searching. Thanks.

Thanks Chantal. I wrongly assumed that you only used Alibaba.

I may seem to be on a crusade, but I find it frustrating to have "expert" after "expert" recommend Alibaba as the answer to a new importer's prayers, when in reality they are putting a stumbling block in the paths of those they are teaching.

 

[eticket]

Walter:

If an SGS report asks, "Does the company have a valid import and export license?" and the 'No' box is checked, is this a concern?

Wouldn't a real manufacturer have a price lower than $11.20 in my example?

eticket

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter:

I just joined this forum because of you. I really respect your knowledge, experience and opinions about importing, and realize you are a walking encyclopedia on the subject.

I've been studying the methods you teach in your book for about 2 weeks now. Recently, I received an SGS report from a company verified in the report as a manufacturer; however, in Section 1 where it asks, "Does the company have a valid import and export license?" the 'No' box is checked. Is this a concern for exporting/importing this company's goods from China into the U.S.?

Secondly, I received a price list from a "manufacturer" who I have not verified as such yet (bec they didn't include their SGS report). One product retails on the Internet for $18.99 but the company's wholesale price is $11.20. This seems outrageously high! Do you think this is really a trader in manufacturer's clothing? If needed, I would be happy to post or forward the product info.

Thank you very much!

eticket

@eticket Thanks for your kind comments.
Theoretically the absence of a valid import and export license would be a red flag, however in practice, there would rarely be a problem because they would use a friend, relative or business associate's license.

The wholesale price you have been quoted is way too high. That could be due to them being a trader in manufacturer's clothing, or it could be because they sense an easy mark in dealing with a newbie. If the product retails at $18.99, the absolute maximum you should pay FOB would be $5.

Send me the details by PM

Walter

 

[eticket]

Walter:

I need to make 10 posts before I can PM someone bec I am new. Would you mind initiating a PM to me so I can respond?

Thank you!

eticket

 

[eticket]

Walter:

I received an SGS report from 1 importer but it's dated May 2014 - it hasn't been renewed (yet?). In addition, they sent me a .png (image) file of the report with only 3 pages and it was hard to read bec it was blurry when blown up. I requested the entire report in .pdf format via email but haven't heard back yet. Is the report date a concern?

Thanks again

eticket

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[Walter Hay]

Walter:

I received an SGS report from 1 importer but it's dated May 2014 - it hasn't been renewed (yet?). In addition, they sent me a .png (image) file of the report with only 3 pages and it was hard to read bec it was blurry when blown up. I requested the entire report in .pdf format via email but haven't heard back yet. Is the report date a concern?

Thanks again

eticket

Blurry copies are of some concern because it could be deliberate. NEVER TRUST ANYBODY.

The date is not so much of a worry.

I have sent you a PM so you can now give me the details and I will check them out for you.

Walter

 

[eticket]

Walter:

The Shanghai co. you PM-ed my about has products "Made in Turkey"; however, when I visit the Turkish site you mention in your book, I get a red flag warning that "the site ahead contains malware". Do you have an alternative site for Turkey?

Also, you mention Mexico in your book but you don't include any site for manufacturers. Being a stone's throw from Mexico, I'd like to see if there are any viable manufacturers there. Can you provide me with a link to manufacturers in Mexico?

Thank you!

eticket

 

[ddall]

Walter,

I've shipped by Air freight, and Ive shipped by CIF. I'm trying to determine which is more cost effective, DHL vs Air freight on next shipment. Supplier, who I have a great relationship with, tells me DHL is $6.5/KG, and air $4.67/KG.

My logestics are as follows: Item shipped to Port of Oakland -> cleared by my customs broker, duties, fees and additional shipping costs to forward on to --> To intermediary warehouse for inspection --> shipped to final warehouse.

I seek to clarify a few things:
1) DHL will ship directly to the intermediary warehouse. Does their cost also include customs clearance and tariffs? So it is one fee to the intermediary warehouse and thats that?
2)Air freight -> Previously I had to so as by sea, clear at customs, and arrange freight forwarding to intermediary warehouse.

DHL option appears faster, and may possibly cheaper if it includes customs fees and duties. Is this possible however? Or does DHL pay the same costs I would. Thanks

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter:

The Shanghai co. you PM-ed my about has products "Made in Turkey"; however, when I visit the Turkish site you mention in your book, I get a red flag warning that "the site ahead contains malware". Do you have an alternative site for Turkey?

Also, you mention Mexico in your book but you don't include any site for manufacturers. Being a stone's throw from Mexico, I'd like to see if there are any viable manufacturers there. Can you provide me with a link to manufacturers in Mexico?

Thank you!

eticket

I will check out the fault with the Turkey link and let you know.

Mexico has trade offices in the USA. You can find them here:http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/3308-méxico-s-trade-commissions

For readers in other countries you can use the same link.

EDIT: Changed the link to display all offices worldwide.

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter,

I've shipped by Air freight, and Ive shipped by CIF. I'm trying to determine which is more cost effective, DHL vs Air freight on next shipment. Supplier, who I have a great relationship with, tells me DHL is $6.5/KG, and air $4.67/KG.

My logestics are as follows: Item shipped to Port of Oakland -> cleared by my customs broker, duties, fees and additional shipping costs to forward on to --> To intermediary warehouse for inspection --> shipped to final warehouse.

I seek to clarify a few things:
1) DHL will ship directly to the intermediary warehouse. Does their cost also include customs clearance and tariffs? So it is one fee to the intermediary warehouse and thats that?
2)Air freight -> Previously I had to so as by sea, clear at customs, and arrange freight forwarding to intermediary warehouse.

DHL option appears faster, and may possibly cheaper if it includes customs fees and duties. Is this possible however? Or does DHL pay the same costs I would. Thanks

DHL might prove to be most cost effective, but to find out for sure, you need to get quotes from your local freight forwarders for air freight delivered to your intermediary warehouse. The quote must include Customs Clearance which involves payment of Tarrif on your behalf, but of course they will usually collect that from you before they will deliver.

DHL's charge should include all those costs to your intermediary warehouse as a matter of routine for a door to door service, but sometimes the couriers like to add Clearance as a separate charge, so you need a quote to confirm.

Your order and shipping documents should not mention Oakland, just the intermediary warehouse address.

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[ddall]

DHL might prove to be most cost effective, but to find out for sure, you need to get quotes from your local freight forwarders for air freight delivered to your intermediary warehouse. The quote must include Customs Clearance which involves payment of Tarrif on your behalf, but of course they will usually collect that from you before they will deliver.

DHL's charge should include all those costs to your intermediary warehouse as a matter of routine for a door to door service, but sometimes the couriers like to add Clearance as a separate charge, so you need a quote to confirm.

Your order and shipping documents should not mention Oakland, just the intermediary warehouse address.

Thank you Walter. Supplier tells me DHL clears the items, so it would in fact appear not only more cost effective, but possibly faster.

Thanks for taking the time

 

[Walter Hay]

Thank you Walter. Supplier tells me DHL clears the items, so it would in fact appear not only more cost effective, but possibly faster.

Thanks for taking the time

You're welcome. I would still check all-inclusive quotes from local freight forwarders. Delivery time would usually be only 2-3 days longer, unless you are willing to wait a week or two for a very cheap rate.

 

[Ron Dee]

Something I learned today. Sent a supplier a design for my product (existing product mine was different sizes) so they could make me a sample. The product arrived and they did a great job. Today I got several product alreats from the many sourcing websites I am on. There it is the same exact product added to their catalog. Not upset about this or surprised cause it's not revolutionary thing but something to think about.

Walter I take it this is extremely common?

 

[Walter Hay]

Something I learned today. Sent a supplier a design for my product (existing product mine was different sizes) so they could make me a sample. The product arrived and they did a great job. Today I got several product alreats from the many sourcing websites I am on. There it is the same exact product added to their catalog. Not upset about this or surprised cause it's not revolutionary thing but something to think about.

Walter I take it this is extremely common?

Yes it is. Some, or even all of those other suppliers could be owned by the same owner, but they are possibly just traders who have pirated images. That is a very common practice. Many traders have no formal relationship with the manufacturers whose products they offer. They are just opportunists, hoping to get an order, and hoping the manufacturer will supply them. That is one reason why they tend to be inflexible on MOQs.

Most Chinese companies trade under several different names and often they appear to compete with one another. One of my franchisees operating a territory in my former importing network placed a sizable order for a product bearing the logo of a good customer that was one of the big names in retail. Instructions were given that this design was not to appear in any advertising, and no samples bearing that logo were to be given out.

The manufacturer complied, but a related company soon displayed the design in their catalog. Our excellent relationship came into play, and after some firm words from me as head of the organization, the catalog was withdrawn. Relationships count for a lot.

What you have experienced should be a warning to all about the lack of protection of IP rights in China. The government is trying to tidy it up, prosecuting some landmark cases, but with millions of businesses it is a slow process. This is why I have developed a relationship with a Chinese lawyer. He has prosecuted a number of cases but admits that the success rate is not what you might expect in the West.

The best protection is still: Develop strong relationships.

 

[Walter Hay]

Parallel Imports Canada

In my post on the subject of Parallel Imports USA Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist. I promised to post information specific to other countries on request.

I have received such a request in relation to Canada, so here is information that might be useful for all Canadian Fastlaners interested in the subject. Please note that the legal disclaimer in that original post applies also to this one.

This one is quite easy to answer because most of what I wrote in the article covering Parallel Imports to the USA will also apply to Canada. The main exception is the absence any recordation number system, so please read the original article but ignore that part.

Canada's courts have in my view been more generous towards importers than those in the US. I should point out that the most important issue that I see for Canadian importers is to declare any substantial difference that may exist between the parallel import product and the locally available product.

In Canadian courts there have been a number of failed attempts, and one or two successful ones, by trade mark or copyright holders to prevent parallel imports of their branded products. With this in mind, I have here a link to a lengthy article (62 Pages) published by the Canadian Bar Association under the title: "Grey Goods V Counterfeit Goods - What's the Difference?" http://www.cba.org/cba/niagara2010/PDF/5.2 Manson_Grey Goods v. Counterfeit Goods.MDM.GHC.lmo.pdf

I would like to point out what to me is a major item in the article. Substantial delays can occur if shipments are suspected of being counterfeit and not genuine. Because of this it is vital to have correct and detailed documentation accompanying the shipment and provided to your Customs Broker or Freight Forwarder. The documentation must include proof of authenticity, and location of your purchase. It should also show proof that the person or business selling the goods to you was authorized to do so.

It is also vitally important that there must not be any labeling suggesting or claiming that you are an authorized distributor, or that local or international warranties will be honored by the manufacturer or brand owner.

I would only carry out parallel importing with the assistance of a licensed Customs Broker, or a Freight Forwarder that employs one. I would also be sure to inform them clearly that the goods being imported are parallel imports.

Anyone seriously considering the huge potential of this activity might regard it as a worthwhile investment to buy the book Parallel Importation by Rose Ann MacGillivray. It is available for $109 from http://www.carswell.com/product-detail/parallel-importation/

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[eticket]

Walter:

1. I'm preparing to place my first sample order with a supplier in Shanghai. Although I have an account with DHL, I didn't mention it to my supplier in China. In my email to them asking about samples, I specified I wanted FOB to the port of delivery. In their response, they said I could buy samples and they would deliver by TNT express or by air. Does this mean they expect me to pay for shipping costs?

2. They also said "samples are very good for our first trial. But samples size ,weight for [widgets],we will send you the similar ones." How would you translate this?

3. Third, for bulk orders, they said they can quote FOB Shanghai or CIF Los Angeles. Does it matter which one I request?

Thank you very much!

eticket

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter:

1. I'm preparing to place my first sample order with a supplier in Shanghai. Although I have an account with DHL, I didn't mention it to my supplier in China. In my email to them asking about samples, I specified I wanted FOB to the port of delivery. In their response, they said I could buy samples and they would deliver by TNT express or by air. Does this mean they expect me to pay for shipping costs?

2. They also said "samples are very good for our first trial. But samples size ,weight for [widgets],we will send you the similar ones." How would you translate this?

3. Third, for bulk orders, they said they can quote FOB Shanghai or CIF Los Angeles. Does it matter which one I request?

Thank you very much!

eticket

Hi, eticket,

1. If they deliver by TNT they will pre-pay and you will have to pay them for that freight as well as the samples, but you must specify door to door or you could finish up paying a lot of local charges on arrival. If you want to use your DHL account you should ask the supplier for a quote EXW. It could well be that the supplier's price for TNT could be well below what you would pay DHL.
2. It will be hard for you to know what differences there may be, but it appears that the samples will not be the same and could be different quality. I would ask them what differences there might be, especially relating to quality.
3. FOB Shanghai means you would need to arrange freight yourself. That would best be done through your local freight forwarder. CIF Los Angeles means they will organize the freight and pay for it as part of your total cost, but it would not include clearance and delivery to your address. Those costs can be substantial, so I would choose FOB.

Walter

 

[eticket]

Hi, eticket,

1. If they deliver by TNT they will pre-pay and you will have to pay them for that freight as well as the samples, but you must specify door to door or you could finish up paying a lot of local charges on arrival. If you want to use your DHL account you should ask the supplier for a quote EXW. It could well be that the supplier's price for TNT could be well below what you would pay DHL.

3. FOB Shanghai means you would need to arrange freight yourself. That would best be done through your local freight forwarder. CIF Los Angeles means they will organize the freight and pay for it as part of your total cost, but it would not include clearance and delivery to your address. Those costs can be substantial, so I would choose FOB.

Walter

In your book (top of p. 49), you discuss FOB and EXW, but I'm not real clear on the distinction.

In the above examples (in bold), if I use my DHL account, you state I should get a quote EXW, which means I would have DHL pick up from their warehouse, and I would pay from that pick-up point to my door.

You also state you would choose FOB Shanghai, in which case my supplier would ship the products from their warehouse to the port in Shanghai, and I would pay from Shanghai port to U.S. port. Is this correct?

Can you explain which one is preferable - FOB or EXW?

This is pretty confusing. Thank you!

eticket

 

[Walter Hay]

In your book (top of p. 49), you discuss FOB and EXW, but I'm not real clear on the distinction.

In the above examples (in bold), if I use my DHL account, you state I should get a quote EXW, which means I would have DHL pick up from their warehouse, and I would pay from that pick-up point to my door.

You also state you would choose FOB Shanghai, in which case my supplier would ship the products from their warehouse to the port in Shanghai, and I would pay from Shanghai port to U.S. port. Is this correct?

Can you explain which one is preferable - FOB or EXW?

This is pretty confusing. Thank you!

eticket

The difference between FOB and EXW is:

• With FOB you are responsible for all costs from the time the goods are loaded on board the transport at the FOB point stated (in this case Shanghai), whether ship or plane.
• With EXW you are responsible for all costs from the time the goods leave the supplier's loading dock. With door to door air courier shipments that cost is included anyway.

So, you have got it right that FOB Shanghai means that you would pay from Shanghai port to U.S. port, BUT, it also means you are responsible for all costs from the time the shipment reaches the US port until it gets to your door. Those are the costs that I say need to be known in advance otherwise they could cost you an arm and a leg if not pre-arranged.

I prefer FOB for larger shipments, and EXW if using an air courier.

 

[Brentnal]

The sad fact is that it is very unusual to find a genuine manufacturer that will accept PayPal.

Why is that... -_-
And why isn't this gold yet

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[Walter Hay]

Why is that... -_-
And why isn't this gold yet

They don't like to use PayPal because the cost is too high for them. Chinese business people tend to be pinch-pennies in relation to what we would consider small matters.

Traders have more room to move because their prices are so much higher than the manufacturers' prices. That is why many of them will accept PayPal.

It's not for me to answer your second question.

 

[GuestUser202]

@Walter Hay, I just want to give a HUGE thank you for this thread and a much more massive thank you for donating your time and wisdom in my own endeavor!

My question is with shipping as most questions seem to be focused on. You know my niche, my product, my suppliers, where I'm at right now. Thank you SO much for your confidentiality! For those that don't know, I'm just starting out. I ordered a small batch of samples being shipped via DHL. My question for Mr. Hay is (since he knows some pretty intimate details of my situation), how should I approach pricing my product? Obviously, the DHL shipping quote is quite cheap ($31-45), but can I base my retail price off that? With my product, I can probably order 200-300 at a time and probably have DHL as my courier, but I am only assuming at this point. I guess I need to know at what point will duty and tax be a factor so that I can incoporate all that into my retail price? Is it based off of weight? Size of shipment? Purchase price?

 

[Walter Hay]

@Walter Hay, I just want to give a HUGE thank you for this thread and a much more massive thank you for donating your time and wisdom in my own endeavor!

My question is with shipping as most questions seem to be focused on. You know my niche, my product, my suppliers, where I'm at right now. Thank you SO much for your confidentiality! For those that don't know, I'm just starting out. I ordered a small batch of samples being shipped via DHL. My question for Mr. Hay is (since he knows some pretty intimate details of my situation), how should I approach pricing my product? Obviously, the DHL shipping quote is quite cheap ($31-45), but can I base my retail price off that? With my product, I can probably order 200-300 at a time and probably have DHL as my courier, but I am only assuming at this point. I guess I need to know at what point will duty and tax be a factor so that I can incoporate all that into my retail price? Is it based off of weight? Size of shipment? Purchase price?

It's good to know how much you appreciate my help. I often help people who don't even say thank you.

I am so pleased to have been able to help you get off to a good start and I hope it continues too go well for you. For the benefit of other readers I will say that with muddblood's diligence and persistence he deserves the good results he is getting so far.

Duty and tax will not be major factors, but you are rightly concerned to take them into account. This is why in my book I set out a simple form to calculate landed cost. The Duty and tax will be charged on product cost plus freight. DHL will calculate those, pay them for you and charge you for them. Do your calculation based on what they tell you, plus their freight cost.

I hope that is clear, but let me know if you need more info.

 

[GuestUser202]

It's good to know how much you appreciate my help. I often help people who don't even say thank you.

I am so pleased to have been able to help you get off to a good start and I hope it continues too go well for you. For the benefit of other readers I will say that with muddblood's diligence and persistence he deserves the good results he is getting so far.

Duty and tax will not be major factors, but you are rightly concerned to take them into account. This is why in my book I set out a simple form to calculate landed cost. The Duty and tax will be charged on product cost plus freight. DHL will calculate those, pay them for you and charge you for them. Do your calculation based on what they tell you, plus their freight cost.

I hope that is clear, but let me know if you need more info.

Thank you for kind words and support.
Unfortunately, nothing is clear about shipping at this point...except DHL will charge me. I think this might just have to be a live and learn experience for me.

I cannot understand why people would not thank you! I cannot thank you enough! I'd xfer rep points, but I don't have much to go around.