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eliquid

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Ah! Interesting. Will have to do this.

Yeah you're basically asking...

Does 4w2 align up to INFP? If not, what does it align with?

Then do the same with your core values.

Might take some time, but I think if your core values are true and your Ennegram is right, you should be able to hone in on one of those 4 MBTI results.

If your Enneagram is wrong ( maybes it's a 2w1 or 6w7 ) and your core values are wrong.. you might not get anything.. but you can at least try.

That's why it's so important to do these multiple times over a period of time ( which you did ) so you can narrow down and make sure it's right.

.
 

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So, I did this! I did the core value words, the enneagram test and the MBTI test several times over several weeks. The MBTI results gave me a 4 way split personality. :rofl: I am split between being an extravert and being an introvert in a lot of ways and so I said could go either way. But, more often than not when I took it, it had me as an introvert. Basically I am an INFP, which explains my uniqueness because it is a very small percentage of the population. I really liked the in depth analysis of the 16personalities.com test, and I definitely recommend taking that one along with several others.

On the enneagram test, I hover between a 4 (the Individualist) and a 2 (the Helper), and could also be a 6 (The Loyalist). This also explains me, and here too, I was a split personality. I think most often, I got 4w2, though.

I also did my core value words, which I think I am going to keep to myself, but I will use them as a barometer for things I am considering doing.

@eliquid --I can't thank you enough for posting this, as it's really narrowed down what I should do, and what fits with me.
So THANK YOU! :clap:: Major rep + coming your way.

Seriously, anyone who is considering doing these exercises--DO THEM! You won't be disappointed, well, you might be a bit. I was a little nonplussed to find that my personality is HELPER. I don't want to be a helper o_O, I want to focus on me for a bit.

2's and 4's are on the same stress/growth line.

You might be a 2 in a growth pattern and leaning towards 4, or a 4 in a stress pattern leaning towards 2.

I'm an 8, and I lean towards 5 when stressed. I had a few initial tests that told me I was a 5 (at the time I was more like a 5)

Since 2 and 4 are connected, seems like a good place to dig deeper anyway.
 

MidwestLandlord

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align up to 4w2

Wings are adjacent to your basic personality type.

So a 4 can have a wing of either 3 or 5 (some believe, as I do, that you are actually both wings but one is more dominant than the other. My 8w7 is certainly looking more and more like 8w9 as I age. I'm getting more mellow, and giving less shits about what other's think of me haha)

@rollerskates

(my type 8 is leaning towards type 2 [helpful], so I hope this helps you lol)

This site and page is a good resource: How The System Works

It does a good job explaining the centers (instinctive, feeling, or thinking), the dominant emotion of each center (anger, shame, fear), the lines of integration and disintegration (growth and stress), and how the wings play a part in your overall personality.

Maybe it will help to study each of the centers, and each of the dominant emotions to find which one matches you. You can then rule out each center that doesn't fit (for example, since you tested 6,4,2 then instinctive center is probably not yours, nor is the dominant emotion of anger)

Just don't get married to one type and convince yourself that's what you are. No one type is better than the others by any means.

I hired an Enneagram coach many years ago, and it still took months for me to figure it all out (and it's really a life long process, I won't quit learning about myself until I'm dead. After all, we change during the years too)
 

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I need to dig around more, but I'm leaning towards INFP as my final answer. Anyway, going to match all this up more closely while writing down all the things I'm pursuing and see what matches.
 

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So I took the MBTI a few times over several days and each time I got INFP. This clears up so much for me.

Some of the strengths of an INFP are idealistic, open minded and creative, and some of the weaknesses are being impractical, doesn’t like dealing with data, and takes things personally. All of which are very true for me.

The part that stuck out the most to me was the career path. It says “It is perhaps more challenging for INFPs to find a satisfying career than any other type...where INFPs will not thrive is in a high-stress, team-heavy, busy environment that burdens them with bureaucracy and tedium.” I mentioned in my earlier post that my job is the reason for a lot of stress, anxiety, and mental fatigue, and what they described there fits my job perfectly. I’m working a job that my brain isn’t wired to work. No wonder I feel the way I do...

It also said “First and foremost is seemingly every INFPs’ dream growing up – to become an author. While a novel is a classic choice, it is rarely an accessible one, and there are many viable options for freedom-loving INFPs. The internet brings to the world the opportunities of blogging and freelance work...”

I mentioned in another post on the forum that I have always loved to write. I began writing fiction in my early teens and continued through to my early college years. I only stopped writing because I was made to believe writing wasn’t practical and I couldn’t make any money being a writer. I now know that’s not true and that there is money to be made out there as a writer.

Because of the results of the test I doubled down on my desire to be a writer and I went to Udemy and purchased a course to strengthen my writing skills and another course to learn how to be a freelance copywriter. I’ve also found a few companies that need a contracted content writer so I am going to apply to those just to see what happens. Wouldn’t hurt to get paid while I learn. I’m also going to do the @SinisterLex copywriting challenge.

Now I am going to continue going through my core values and take the other test to keep digging deeper into who I am as a person. Thanks a lot for posting this @eliquid. This has been a real game changer for me.
 

eliquid

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AlessioLC

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Is that normal that unconsciously i always thought about being a salesman like in cars or real estate / yacht (these 3 field are very interesting), never thought about making the jump because i wasn't sure with my Coffee Shop project (Do what you love + Market gap) but i always been aware that even if i love making great coffee, i won't be fulfilled and i'm always thinking about sales/deals. (which is good for this field too)

I'm an ENTJ and in the description, being a salesman, being out there is the principal asset of the ENTJ, not afraid of making deals and going further.
 

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I had this threat bookmarked but I was avoiding it. Because... you know... I already know about this shit.

Well... I've finally started to read it when a lot of pieces have take their place. When everything I read, see or experience tell me the same message.

And probably the best moment to read it is now. Not a month ago. Now. Because maybe a month ago I would have read it without taking any action at all.

It's a great post @eliquid.

The funny thing is: I've done this before. I've done this kind of exercises since 2013, trying to clarify my values, my passions, how can I provide value, what are my strengths... And it was really helpful. But...

But I'm making the same mistakes that before. Not working with a leverage in my strengths. Not working with a strong purpouse honning my values.

A lot of things have changed in this years and I'm happy for that. But still not in my Path.

So I've taken the 16personalities test again (as a INTP, I like your systematic approach ;)). Right now I'm going to take again the enneagram test (I'm a 5w4 according to previous tests, but I have a lot conflict with some 3 characteristics).

I'll take the Strenghts Finder test (I've just bought the book How Full Is Your Bucket that gives acces to the test). I'll take also the one oriented to entrepreneurs.

I'm still not at the end of the thread, but what made me decide to read it was that I was searching for reviews of the Marketing Dna Test from Perry Marshall, that I'll take the next week.

I'll keep you informed, but I agree with everything you say here. To know your values and honor them, is the key to a fulfilled life.

Because everything you want is a way to fulfill some of your values. And we tend to over-complicate the means (the fast car) when the important thing is the end (the acceptance value, or whaterever). Probably we can have simpler means than leads to the same ends.

What really helped me was, I finally got validation that who am I isn't some strange socially awkward recluse that has a huge ego who needs fixing because the world tried to tell me to conform to their standard.

No, I learned who I am is natural and recognized. I don't have to second guess who I am and what I do. It's ok to not be an extrovert. It's ok that I spend a lot of time reading alone instead of going to parties and drinking and making aimless small talk. My fear of being useless is perfectly valid and I'm not just this depressed person always thinking about. In fact, I'm not depressed at all.. its just a natural fear for someone with my personality type actually.

Do you see how massively helpful that is? I don't need to see a shrink for my phone "fear" or a Dr. for some pills and my sleep insomnia. I don't need to question myself anymore. At the same time, I realize my weakness and how to actually address them.
This resonate with me, because I felt the same after taking the 16personalities test. I started to accept a lot of things about me. Some of them in common with yours.

If I had known about these tests ( and trusted them ) when I was 16, could you imagine the difference it would have made in my life?

Sure, maybe I wouldn't have been super successful and rolling in money because of it, but I wouldn't have been miserable with 100 jobs either.
I think that a personality test can be dangerous if you use it to label yourself (or others) as a excuse to not to grow or not change some aspects of your personality.

But they're a great starting point for self-development. They serve you as a compass that helps you focus on thrive in your strengths and take conscious decisions about what to do with your awakeness.

My point is: maybe if you had know about these tests at an early age you'd have label yourself this way.

Anyway, it is as it is. You are building over your background. Is your unique path what makes you unique.

Thanks for taking the time (and vulnerability involved) to share this with us :)
 

diegorueda

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Digging deeper in the 16personalities site, I've found some more tests available in the member area. Some of them are free. I've taken the Job Preference Test and is quite simple but useful.

Find it in Members Area | 16Personalities. To have acces to the members area, you have to enter your e-mail after taking the test.

It also worths to access to the Premium Profile sales letter. As @eliquid said regarding to use this information to personalize your marketing messages to your audience, they obviously are using it.

They speak directly to me. They know exactly what to say to me. This sales letter is epic!

After taking the test, go to Premium Profiles | 16Personalities if you want to see it.
 

diegorueda

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This is why I like the enneagram tests.

Enneagram shows me as a type 8, which is an extroverted type.

But,

An unhealthy type 8 moves towards type 5, which is a more introverted type.

If I take the Myer-Briggs while I am in a healthy state, it starts with an "E", but if I take it from an unhealthy state, it starts with "I"

So one of the things I watch in myself is "withdrawing" from people. If I see myself being more introverted I know something is bothering me that I need to fix.

Let's flip this around:

My wife is a type 5, which is a more introverted type.

In a healthy state, she moves towards type 8, an extroverted type.

Both of us change our levels of introvert or extrovert depending on where we are at mentally.

So the enneagram takes into account that our personalities are dynamic or fluid in a fashion that is more intuitive for me than Myer-Briggs testing.
I'm an 8, and I lean towards 5 when stressed. I had a few initial tests that told me I was a 5 (at the time I was more like a 5)

This is what I like the most of Enneagram. In my past I admired people who was clearly healthy 8's, wanting to be a bit like them. And I've struggled a lot with some 7 traits (the first time I hear about Enneagram I thought I was a rare-case of introvert 7 :D).

Is not casual that after of years working on my self-development, I'm more and more adquiring 8's traits and abandoning 7's traits.

But your comment has made me think about how to keep an eye in this traits to recognize when I'm going in the wrong direction. Very useful!

But how do you define a value? Here are the first thoughts that came to my mind:
  • Something I want to embrace
  • Something I want to live by
  • Something I want to be a part of my life
  • Something I want to be
  • Something I want others to know me for
  • Something I should prioritize if I want to really be happy
  • Something my endeavors should align with
  • Something that attracts me to others if they have it or make me feel it

Other things I usually aks myself when doing this exercises are:
- What I repeatly hate and make me get really angry with the world?
- What are the common values and real motivations after my previous works? Why I abandoned them? Why I enganged with them in first place?

Also, I've done several mind-maps with my interests, dreams, experience, knowledge... these were really useful for me.

Finding out who you are without all the scripted BS from society, and then choosing to live congruently to that?

Wow. It sounds like a great mission statement for all Truth seekers :) Also a great headline for an infroproduct :D

It takes a lot of soul searching and self-discovery to find out who you are, your true values, your "why" so to speak, apart from the influences of society.

It needs time, brutal honesty with oneself... and I think it also needs action. Once you have find out that "why", you have to test it and expose your authentic self to the world to know how it feels and how it looks when the world respond to that.

Also, it takes a lot of courage to then go out and manufacture a life that is congruent to what you discover. Often times living congruently to your values is opposite (or at least in disagreement with) what society expects of you.

This is hard. If finding out who you are is laborious, this part is really hard. Is the expose-your-authentic-self-to-the-world part. Probably the most rewarding but hardest part of all this.

For example, a software engineer can work in virtually any field. Medicine, energy, music, technology, shoes, money, physics, etc. Your skills as a software engineer are who you are and how you work in the field you choose.
With these values, you can apply them to virtually any lifestyle, job, or business. For example lets take adventure and simplicity. They can be applied to software engineering, marketing, real estate, etc. It might take some experimenting to see in what ways they can best be applied, but I bet it can be done.

This idea alone can transform a career that you hate into one that you love! I read something similar a time ago and I thought "how I had not realized this before???".

Historically well-known successful people became that way for being true to who they are. They didn't try to be someone else. They don't let society change them. (I think of MLKJ, Steve Jobs, etc)


There is research out there, trust me, that will generally say things like, "type 5's tend to be INTJs and INxJs" and there are things out there that will say "INTJ's tend to have these values"....

There's also some books in Amazon wich are specifically written for each type. Just search for your letters (INFJ, INTP...).

It also said “First and foremost is seemingly every INFPs’ dream growing up – to become an author. While a novel is a classic choice, it is rarely an accessible one, and there are many viable options for freedom-loving INFPs. The internet brings to the world the opportunities of blogging and freelance work...”

This book is aimed to INFJs but maybe can be useful in your quest for living the writing life... or maybe you can find some similar resource more INFP specific: https://www.amazon.es/INFJ-Writer-Cracking-Creative-Genius/dp/0692766693/
 

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astr0

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Thanks for taking to your time to write such a great thread @eliquid !

Now, after reading more about my personality, I'm wondering if everyone of 7.6 billion people fits one of those personality templates so well.
Definitely agree with @Thiago Machado on this:
In my honest opinion, this should be mandatory reading on the forum, in schools, in the workplace and in life.

I'm a stereotypical INTJ-T and 5w6. I kinda knew who I am, just didn't knew why I'm like that and never thought it may be so important.

Core values is a real thing! I've been using another approach for major decision making: visualizing your future after taking the opportunity and thinking what's right and what's wrong, what better and what's worse (pretty much evaluating an alignment). It saved me from split-testing 80-100 jobs while allowed me to also try myself in many INTJ-suited professions and only those. But you may easily miss an opportunity or still get something a little off with this method. It's not as fast, simple and accurate as comparing with core values.
So better take your time figuring them out. The smaller the list the harder it gets.

Although, I probably love my job more than most people love theirs, there's still something off. And while my list of core values is not finished yet, I already know it's a little lack of autonomy and significance.

P.S. Is there any was to suppress w6? It really gets in a way...
 

jms0717

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Thoughts
@eliquid is
Fi af
T af
J
—since learning MBTI and cognitive functions, I automatically analyze everyone. It’s honestly a curse in some ways. I’m INFJ with a strong Ti and Fe, so analytical and P af. I was happy to see you mention personality etc. A lot of people discount it as “not science” when that’s really not the point - it’s to get to know yourself. It’s been super important to me and my friends who have used it to do basically this exercise, but not as in depth.

I NEED TO DO MY MISSION STATEMENT

Getting to the real why is so freaking terrifying

I think I may need to reevaluate INFJ vs INTJ now.
I really need to re-evaluate with that brutal honesty. Not sure how to get there though.

Ok. I took the 16personalities test more honestly than usual. I got INTP for the first time ever. WTF. Also, lol after what I said above.That's the thing though, I've taken these tests and studied MBTI so much that I could get any result you asked me to. And I'm feeling more TP ish, so I got it. Not really surprising. Time to do some soul searching re: values.

I think values should definitely be based on how you currently are. Things change, but your actions and how you feel about them won’t change much.If you're feeling comfortable with your actions, you'll know. If you're feeling uncomfortable with your actions, you know too.

I literally did the stars next to values thing awhile back for family stuff. Should have done it for myself, but I was too scared to, tbh.

YES YES YES (finding out who you are and living congruently and building that life from the rubble of the script.)

To confirm, I also use cognitive functions I mentioned at the beginning. A quick intro that I always refer back to is cognitiveprocesses.com
 

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An upsell to Perry Marshall's excellent book "80/20 Sales & Marketing" was a Productivity Course.

His premise was that you'd never be fully productive until you did what came naturally.
Once you do what comes naturally to you then it's like hitting a jet stream - you shoot forward faster than you've ever gone before, and with no extra effort.
You suddenly fit like a hand in a glove.

As part of the exercise I asked 10-15 people to tell me what my superpower is.
I also took Perry's Marketing DNA Test.

Dayum, but I'd spent 15 years of my life in IT support as a Database Administrator, doing all the things that are NOT my superpowers.
I just happened to be pretty good at being anal, process driven, and solving theoretical problems whilst working in a cubicle.
Apparently people who are good academically can end up in those kind of engineering jobs when it's not what suits them.

The tests say I thrive in environments that are the complete opposite of what I'd spent most of my career in to date.
I prefer unstructured, live, and seat-of-your-pants stuff.
I apparently often don't know what I'm about to say until I start talking.
I prefer moving fast, without a plan.
In fact, I just like moving.

I was probably about 43 when I took that first test.
A lot of things suddenly made sense.
I've taken a few since, and I'm still learning how best to use my own superpowers.

I may end up doing this as detailed as @eliquid has.
Even just being mindful that matching my goals and activities to my personality and values has had a massive impact on my life in the last few years.

Great thread @eliquid. Thanks for all your time writing this up for us.

Hey @Andy Black ,

Quite interesting about Perry's Marketing DNA test.

Would be great to read how it helped you on your journey, when you get to it.

Just wondering if you have done the Kolbe A Index and Wealth Dynamics tests, and how they correlated to your Marketing DNA results?

From where I'm looking at it, the Marketing DNA test seems like its been derived from the Kolbe A and niched down, like Joe Polish's test, which was a direct derivative of the Kolbe, developed with the help of Kathy Kolbe.
 

WarWizard

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@eliquid , A lot of your story resonates with me, along with Andy's (I've been in various roles in the IT field for close to 15 years now, and only my recent role has been close to using my 'natural strengths').

I've been on a self discovery quest for a while, and have done some of these tests multiple times.
Yet, your write up has created some connections in my mind that didn't exist before, and it will help me further refine my understanding of myself, and how I can best serve the world.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, for taking the time, and having the courage to open up so much and share your results, process and journey.

Just wondering if you have ever taken the Kolbe A Index and/or the Wealth Dynamics test?

Also, have you looked into your 'core beliefs' to see how they are influencing you and choices you make. I've found the concept of it interesting and am working on figuring mine out to see how they've influenced my actions and results thus far, and how I can change them to help me achieve the results that I want to in the future.

Your process of determining values and correlating them to personality types etc to arrive at a mission statement is very interesting and something that I will do over the next few days and weeks. This will help me a lot as I stop doing a few things and start on other projects.

Personally, what I have done so far (over the last 5 -7 years) is taken the MBTI, DISC, Kolbe A, Kolbe Career MO, Wealth Dynamics, StrengthsFinder 2.0, EP10/BP10, VIA Character Strengths, Richard Step Employment Personality, Emyth IQ, 4 Temperaments, Enneagram, Multiple Intelligence's, Left Brain/Right Brain, Rocket Fuel - Visionary/Integrator, and a few free strengths tests to compare them all.

A lot of these I've done at least a couple of times over a few years' time, and they have remained fairly consistent.

The reason I did a lot of these tests was to find the common threads and patterns, as I would not want to just rely on one test.

I've dedicated a notebook in which I've been keeping the results and tracking connections, but with the process you have refined and shared up here, I should be able to connect some of the dots better and get a more useful solution.

I the past, I've looked at each test's results individually and have gone 'How do I use this in my job/project that I'm working on/business that I want to start'. But now I can use all of

I've also managed to get my wife to take some of the tests, and the results have helped me understand why she thinks and acts in certain ways (which wasn't making sense to me and was frustrating me, until the tests gave me the understanding to appreciate her strengths - which by the way compliment mine almost perfectly)

Also, you've really opened my eyes to the difference between freedom and autonomy, which then helped me understand why I've loved some of the jobs I've worked in the past, and why I've hated others. It also helped explain my internal pull towards entrepreneurship.

Thanks again.

Much appreciate what you have shared here (TFLF) in various threads.

Ben.
 

eliquid

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Thank you from the bottom of my heart, for taking the time, and having the courage to open up so much and share your results, process and journey.

Your welcome

Just wondering if you have ever taken the Kolbe A Index and/or the Wealth Dynamics test?

Haven't, but I will mark them down later in the year to try

Also, have you looked into your 'core beliefs' to see how they are influencing you and choices you make. I've found the concept of it interesting and am working on figuring mine out to see how they've influenced my actions and results thus far, and how I can change them to help me achieve the results that I want to in the future.

So this is a bit of back and forth, but for a long time I didn't really know my core beliefs.

I mean, I had these internal gut reactions and feelings.. but I didn't have a name for them or a process. I was just walking around like a mouth breathing sheep for a while. The whole time though, I knew something was off and wrong, that I was unhappy and depressed.. this was me at least knowing this wasn't the lifestyle I wanted.

That lead me to figuring out the names and process for my core beliefs.

So when I look back, I can see the mistakes I made by not knowing or following.

Now, from the point of knowing my beliefs going forward.. I can say they are influencing my choices.

How?

I constantly look at my values all the time. I have to make sure I don't lose focus on them and I have to make sure everyday my gut check feels right about them ( or else it might be time for a change ).

Then I look at my mission statement and remind myself whatever I am doing has to align with that.

Do I get off track? Sure!

I might take on some shiny project thinking it fits ( it's amazing what you can tell yourself, to fool yourself ) and then a week later Im in the middle of it and it hits me that this isn't what I thought it was and it violates something in my mission statement. But that's how you learn.

Lastly, I compare my choices to my priorities.

That systems helps me avoid of ton of bad choices. It also helps me recognize a bad choice when I thought something was a good choice and I'm knee deep in it.

There is also the u-turn. Im not sure if @MJ DeMarco uses this in the book ( I havent memorized it ) but lets say before you realize your values you are in the slowlane. Once you figure them out, you plan a course for the fastlane. But instead of changing lanes smoothly, maybe you have to do a u-turn and go the other direction into their fastlane.

That u-turn pivot might take a couple months to pull off. It might take you time to totally course correct and shed that job ( or business ) and get the resources needed to u-turn into the fastlane in the other direction.

That u-turn phase can cause you to doubt yourself and can open you to rethinking if you are doing the right thing. Hard times might come and you might want to head for the safety of the slowlane again.

Finding out my core values helped me steer through the u-turn completely.

If you happen to be old enough to know, think of your core values like a Brodie Knob on a steering wheel. They also go by "granny knob" and suicide knob. It helps you complete that steer into the direction you want to go.



Personally, what I have done so far (over the last 5 -7 years) is taken the MBTI, DISC, Kolbe A, Kolbe Career MO, Wealth Dynamics, StrengthsFinder 2.0, EP10/BP10, VIA Character Strengths, Richard Step Employment Personality, Emyth IQ, 4 Temperaments, Enneagram, Multiple Intelligence's, Left Brain/Right Brain, Rocket Fuel - Visionary/Integrator, and a few free strengths tests to compare them all.

Damn that's a lot!

Some I know, some I didn't. I'll have to see if I can take them and if any overlap.

.
 

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Your welcome



Haven't, but I will mark them down later in the year to try



So this is a bit of back and forth, but for a long time I didn't really know my core beliefs.

I mean, I had these internal gut reactions and feelings.. but I didn't have a name for them or a process. I was just walking around like a mouth breathing sheep for a while. The whole time though, I knew something was off and wrong, that I was unhappy and depressed.. this was me at least knowing this wasn't the lifestyle I wanted.

That lead me to figuring out the names and process for my core beliefs.

So when I look back, I can see the mistakes I made by not knowing or following.

Now, from the point of knowing my beliefs going forward.. I can say they are influencing my choices.

How?

I constantly look at my values all the time. I have to make sure I don't lose focus on them and I have to make sure everyday my gut check feels right about them ( or else it might be time for a change ).

Then I look at my mission statement and remind myself whatever I am doing has to align with that.

Do I get off track? Sure!

I might take on some shiny project thinking it fits ( it's amazing what you can tell yourself, to fool yourself ) and then a week later Im in the middle of it and it hits me that this isn't what I thought it was and it violates something in my mission statement. But that's how you learn.

Lastly, I compare my choices to my priorities.

That systems helps me avoid of ton of bad choices. It also helps me recognize a bad choice when I thought something was a good choice and I'm knee deep in it.

There is also the u-turn. Im not sure if @MJ DeMarco uses this in the book ( I havent memorized it ) but lets say before you realize your values you are in the slowlane. Once you figure them out, you plan a course for the fastlane. But instead of changing lanes smoothly, maybe you have to do a u-turn and go the other direction into their fastlane.

That u-turn pivot might take a couple months to pull off. It might take you time to totally course correct and shed that job ( or business ) and get the resources needed to u-turn into the fastlane in the other direction.

That u-turn phase can cause you to doubt yourself and can open you to rethinking if you are doing the right thing. Hard times might come and you might want to head for the safety of the slowlane again.

Finding out my core values helped me steer through the u-turn completely.

If you happen to be old enough to know, think of your core values like a Brodie Knob on a steering wheel. They also go by "granny knob" and suicide knob. It helps you complete that steer into the direction you want to go.





Damn that's a lot!

Some I know, some I didn't. I'll have to see if I can take them and if any overlap.

.


Damn, what you said in this post makes a lot of sense.

I think there have been instances where I've started to turn the steering wheel for that u-turn and then either freaked out or let a bump turn the wheel back.

I'll keep all this in mind when going through the process.

Thanks again for taking time to clarifying.

It has also instigated a bit more curiosity about the Enneagram, where I'm watching some videos and am going 'ah, no wonder'. I'm a Type 5, with a more 4 Wing, but there are some characteristics of 6 Wing as well, so finding out if there are times when a type 5 can swing between the 4 and 6 wings.

This is the one I liked best -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pnAyMLRsPg


Thanks for your generosity.
 

diegorueda

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There is also the u-turn. Im not sure if @MJ DeMarco uses this in the book ( I havent memorized it ) but lets say before you realize your values you are in the slowlane. Once you figure them out, you plan a course for the fastlane. But instead of changing lanes smoothly, maybe you have to do a u-turn and go the other direction into their fastlane.

That u-turn pivot might take a couple months to pull off. It might take you time to totally course correct and shed that job ( or business ) and get the resources needed to u-turn into the fastlane in the other direction.

That u-turn phase can cause you to doubt yourself and can open you to rethinking if you are doing the right thing. Hard times might come and you might want to head for the safety of the slowlane again.
I am currently inmerse in that u-turn pivot. Sometimes it is exciting and other times (most times) is scary. I think my ego is strongly counterattacking haha. The process of knowing yourself and, most importantly, accepting it as it is and then doing something following that self-knowledge is hard.

But it worth it bro. It worth it.
 

AlessioLC

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Do you think for someone who is naturally more a lonely hustler should keep this path or try something different ?

Like, i'm trying to open a new concept of Coffee Shop (long story) because i know i'm able to make something great, but i'm also nervous because i don't like to work with other people.

I'm an ENTJ, i love to help people, but i also prefer to work lonely (which is not what i'm doing right now as i am Coffee Shop Manager / Barista), i'm more in the lifestyle of a Trader for example.

What would you say from your experience and several tests ?

Thanks,
Alessio.
 

eliquid

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Do you think for someone who is naturally more a lonely hustler should keep this path or try something different ?

Like, i'm trying to open a new concept of Coffee Shop (long story) because i know i'm able to make something great, but i'm also nervous because i don't like to work with other people.

I'm an ENTJ, i love to help people, but i also prefer to work lonely (which is not what i'm doing right now as i am Coffee Shop Manager / Barista), i'm more in the lifestyle of a Trader for example.

What would you say from your experience and several tests ?

Thanks,
Alessio.


I think for the majority of people, and for the majority of times, at our core we do not change.

Is it possible to change? Yes

Is it likely or easy? No

Because of that, I feel that at our core "a leopard doesn't change his spots" for the majority of time.

Because of this, don't try to change who you are or fight it. If you love to help people and also be a loner, don't try to be a manager of other people or work in large groups as it will just drag you down.

At best, maybe you can find another loner like yourself that likes to help people that you can work with. While you would be his manager, he could work independent of you and you wouldn't feel like you were working "with people". Maybe you can put him in charge and you come in 1x a week to "manage" and set expectations.

If your issue is the customer ( working as a loner ), then you would need to get out of any role where you interact with people daily on an immediate basis ( anytime they need their coffee ) and change that do where you have the power to dictate when you interact with them ( giving you the power as the loner ). As in, you either do above ( put someone in as manager and you come in 1x a week ) or you find a new position/career where you dictate when you interact with people.

With my SaaS for an example, I can dictate when I help people in the support desk role. When a ticket comes in, I don't have to jump and answer it right then and there, I can wait 2-3 hours maybe. When someone wants coffee or has an issue, you have to fix it right there. You might need to be in a role like me where you have power to interact with people on your timeline.

.
 

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AlessioLC

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I think for the majority of people, and for the majority of times, at our core we do not change.

Is it possible to change? Yes

Is it likely or easy? No

Because of that, I feel that at our core "a leopard doesn't change his spots" for the majority of time.

Because of this, don't try to change who you are or fight it. If you love to help people and also be a loner, don't try to be a manager of other people or work in large groups as it will just drag you down.

At best, maybe you can find another loner like yourself that likes to help people that you can work with. While you would be his manager, he could work independent of you and you wouldn't feel like you were working "with people". Maybe you can put him in charge and you come in 1x a week to "manage" and set expectations.

If your issue is the customer ( working as a loner ), then you would need to get out of any role where you interact with people daily on an immediate basis ( anytime they need their coffee ) and change that do where you have the power to dictate when you interact with them ( giving you the power as the loner ). As in, you either do above ( put someone in as manager and you come in 1x a week ) or you find a new position/career where you dictate when you interact with people.

With my SaaS for an example, I can dictate when I help people in the support desk role. When a ticket comes in, I don't have to jump and answer it right then and there, I can wait 2-3 hours maybe. When someone wants coffee or has an issue, you have to fix it right there. You might need to be in a role like me where you have power to interact with people on your timeline.

.
Thanks for your reply eliquid !

Yes since little i'm a lonely hustler, i prefer to go to the gym lonely i'm way more focused and when someone talk to me i just can't (not anti social, i just work better when i'm not disturbed).
For the Coffee Shop, i can work with people but not too much, i would prefer to be the owner of the business (that i would be) but not working in it 8h a day.

The problem with my concept is that i can't open it without teaching the employee how it works for at least 3/5 months, training professionnal Barista take actually so much time compared to Starbucks where you just have automatic milk machine, coffee machine and so on..

The trading lifestyle is more appropriate, or the designer lifestyle, it's the same.
Like, i could trade while being in different countries there's no problem..excepted the capital to invest in the plateform lol!

I see the whole picture of your message and i must admit it's true..
I could see myself as an independant trader/R.E Investor, it's more appropriate than being behind the bar all day long
 

OMDA

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Wow.

I read this thread earlier and had a test that rated highest on type 3 but with some possibility of being others, like type 5.

Not having any idea, I read more into the different types. While I have some similarities, type 3 is almost spot on for most things.

Then I found this, where it lists the 'levels' of health for type 3s. I had to laugh because when I am not mentally healthy, the dysfunctions fit me to a tee.

Discussion after wall of text below.

Type Three

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Self-accepting, inner-directed, and authentic, everything they seem to be. Modest and charitable, self-deprecatory humor and a fullness of heart emerge. Gentle and benevolent.

Level 2: Self-assured, energetic, and competent with high self-esteem: they believe in themselves and their own value. Adaptable, desirable, charming, and gracious.

Level 3: Ambitious to improve themselves, to be "the best they can be"—often become outstanding, a human ideal, embodying widely admired cultural qualities. Highly effective: others are motivated to be like them in some positive way.

Average Levels

Level 4: Highly concerned with their performance, doing their job well, constantly driving self to achieve goals as if self-worth depends on it. Terrified of failure. Compare self with others in search for status and success. Become careerists, social climbers, invested in exclusivity and being the "best."

Level 5: Become image-conscious, highly concerned with how they are perceived. Begin to package themselves according to the expectations of others and what they need to do to be successful. Pragmatic and efficient, but also premeditated, losing touch with their own feelings beneath a smooth facade. Problems with intimacy, credibility, and "phoniness" emerge.

Level 6: Want to impress others with their superiority: constantly promoting themselves, making themselves sound better than they really are. Narcissistic, with grandiose, inflated notions about themselves and their talents. Exhibitionistic and seductive, as if saying "Look at me!" Arrogance and contempt for others is a defense against feeling jealous of others and their success.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Fearing failure and humiliation, they can be exploitative and opportunistic, covetous of the success of others, and willing to do "whatever it takes" to preserve the illusion of their superiority.

Level 8: Devious and deceptive so that their mistakes and wrongdoings will not be exposed. Untrustworthy, maliciously betraying or sabotaging people to triumph over them. Delusionally jealous of others

Level 9: Become vindictive, attempting to ruin others' happiness. Relentless, obsessive about destroying whatever reminds them of their own shortcomings and failures. Psychopathic behavior. Generally corresponds to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

At my worst, I dipped into level 7. But embarrassingly I will admit that a lot of my adult life was operating in the low average level of "Look at me!".

Yeah I had some accomplishments, but the creation of social media, and my use of it, was incredibly bad. Thankfully, I quit Facebook well over a year ago as it was like crack to me. I was always thinking of ways to make myself seem better or awesome or something else.


On the other side, I look at things that have motivated me:
  • I first learned html two decades ago because I was playing an online game and wanted to show off my ideas to the other game players. I would go a ridiculous extent to improve it and get recognition for my ideas
  • I picked the most 'prestigious' engineering major I could and did what I could to get a high GPA...for the prestige. And part of the reason that I went for PhD program was the 'prestige' and getting into what I saw was a dream job that would impress people. Yes, it was also cool sounding, but it was also impressive and I think I have been in denial about how much that drove me.
  • I thought I was an introvert based off of meyers-briggs tests. But, when I picked up dancing, I ended up teaching and learning that I loved being the center of attention. That lead to the biggest change in my personality because I always thought I was an intellectual type. But too much intellectualism drives me bonkers and I need social validation of some sort.
  • I did some wild things on a Carnival cruise...that's another story.
But, key thing is that I want to be recognized for achievement in one way or another. That explains quite a bit about my current employment, at least in title. But this new self-understanding is just a first step in understanding how best to move towards my strengths.

Thank you,
@eliquid



 

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I'm sticking my neck out here because I know that SOME people will consider this topic along the same lines of "action-faking", "passion following", and other guru life coaching BS.

However, I'm going for my 3rd Gold on purpose with this thread.

Yes this will be a massive post, covering several posts actually. It gets deep and gets into tapping emotions sometimes. When you think you know what I'm talking about, I might actually spin it around on you later. If you really like what you read, make sure you pay attention.

My aim is not to convince you or "life coach" you. My aim is to help specific people who were once like me on this forum. When you read this thread, you will know who you are and you will understand why I am helping you and posting this. For everyone else that doesn't get it, this post just wasn't meant for you at this time of your life.

And yes, I posted this on another forum first. Why? I didn't know how some of you would take it. So I decided to post it elsewhere, get feedback, and refine it for here. Kinda like how Seinfeld and other comics try out their new jokes on smaller venues before doing them in front of larger crowds.

I'm going to give an intro here first on why I am posting this that will then lead into the actual posting. So here goes....

Intro/Background
Years ago I really thought I knew who I was. I was living a largely unscripted life for the most part and doing things my way.

In many ways, I was also still attached to the the "script" my parents and grandparents passed down to me, as well as society. Each time the script got in my way and I was let down by it, I grew more into the unscripted me.

These events lead me to certain beliefs, values, and goals. It helped me move forward to an unscripted life before MJ's book came out. Based on this, I thought I knew who I was and what I wanted to be.

But see, life is funny in that way.You think you have it all figured out but many times you don't know the WHY behind those things. Many times you don't care to look into the WHY because "life happens" or you feel you know the real why already.

In 2008 I had a massive FTM. It was one of many and it was not my last. However, this one specific FTM lead me to huge financial success in my own business. Years later even with success in business, I found myself depressed over the same things that lead to my FTM in 2008.

So in 2015 I decided to do some soul searching. What come out of that is what I present to you below.

I didn't post this background information elsewhere. I wanted you all to know the background so you could see where I was coming from and why I posted it. The story jumps to the present day now below:

The Post

Every 12 months or so, I take a look at my goals and I figure out if what I completed is in alignment with what I want in life.

But the big question is, what is it I want?

And what do I do when my want's change?

It's be proven that depression can come from doing work that doesn't align with your core values, whether you know your core values or not. If you are stuck doing things daily that really do not fit you, wouldn't you be depressed too?

In 2015, my core values were:
  • Individuality
  • Freedom
  • Trust
  • Simplicity
  • Activeness

These past few days I re-evaluated my core values and came up with:
  • Simplicity
  • Creativity
  • Entrepreneurship
  • Stability
  • Autonomy
Now these words all mean something different, to different people. That's OK. What they mean to you when you make out your list is all that matters. Sometimes, these values can mean different things at different times to the same person...

It took me a few days actively thinking about these values ( from multiple different lists I pulled up online ) and thinking about my past, current, and future life. What I ended up with fits me now. This is key because what you want and need can change every year.

So why is this important?

As builders and entrepreneurs, you are going to get distracted with new shiny projects and ideas. Maybe in the middle of building your empire you get offered a sweet cushy executive job.

Maybe it's as simple as you get the urge to move to another city.

If you know your core values, you can compare these new projects, job offers, urges to change against the core values and see if it really makes sense to do so.

For a personal example, I took my core values above and made a personal mission statement:

"To solve problems with simplicity, creativity, and entrepreneurship while creating a full and stable life that provides autonomy"

If something comes up, I ask myself if it aligns with my core values and mission statement.

An example of this might be:
  • Work on new shiny Adsense project - Is it simple? Yes. Is it creative? No.
    • I found a no, so I should pass on this new shiny object
  • Got offered a cushy VP job at XYZ Inc - Is it simple? No
    • It also isn't entrepreneurial, so I need to pass on it
  • Found a new house I love, its $475,000 and I need a mortgage
    • It doesn't fit autonomy. I will feel obligated to pay my mortgage and do things to make sure it's paid like take a job or give up a trip I really wanted to go on maybe to pay the bills.
    • However, maybe I can find a creative and entrepreneurial way to still get this house, like live in for 6 months and AirBNB it the other 6 months of the year.
A lot of you might disagree with what I put above as examples.

You might say, a mortgage isn't a problem really. You need a house, its your dream house, its just one bill, it doesn't really impact your independence and freedom.

But this exercise is about how "I feel and I think". When you do yours, you use your feeling and wisdom that you live by. That's the whole idea of core values and how YOU personally understand them.

So if you had the same core values as me and made the same mission statement as me, it's no wonder you feel depressed and miserable working a J-O-B as the Director of some web agency. It's no wonder your miserable working on projects where none of your creativity shines through. It's no wonder your sick and worried all the time when you have no stability in your life bouncing from girlfriend to girlfriend while moving to a different city and changing jobs every 3 months ( if stability was one of your core values, as it is for me ).

Get the picture?

Knowing your core values is like knowing your goals.

Once you figure them out, you can make better decisions about what choices you make in life. Backing that up with a mission statement ( personal ) will further strengthen that.

BTW, your core values and mission statement can be different from the ones you pick for your business.

One last thing I do to further ensure I stay on track is to add in Priorities.

My priorities for 2015 where these:
  • Family
  • Charity & Faith
  • Building Net Worth
I haven't figured out my priorities yet for this year since I just changed my core values and mission statement for the next 12 months, but once I figure those out I will share here.

Since I know my core values, my mission statement, and my priorities I am never stuck trying to figure out, "what do I do?" when presented with a decision I need to make. I also know exactly how to define my goals for the year, month, week, and day because my goals are going to be reflections of my values, mission statement, and priorities.

For example, I'm not going to go through with, or make new goals, that have me trying to land a job with higher pay. That doesn't fit in anywhere. Im also not going to make goals that have a high % of violating any of my value and priorities in the future.

I'm not going to make goals that don't reflect my values, mission statement, and priorities. I'm also going to know what I always need to be doing without second thought since I make decisions based on these values, missions statement and priorities.

And because I'm doing things that align with me and my values, I'm going to be fulfilled and happy regardless if I hit the goals I make 100% or not.

This is why you have to be brutally honest with yourself in doing this exercise.

You may even need to be like me and figure out values, then rework them daily for the next week to get down to what really resonates with you and is honest with you. Then take a couple days to refine your mission statement and priorities to make sure they really are truly you.

Say I made one goal of making $100,000 in 12 months with Amazon Kindle and at the end of the year I miss it. I only made $45,000 instead.

Would I be sad for missing my goal? Maybe, but really only because I knew I could have done better and I really needed the extra money. However, I won't feel miserable or depressed because I was doing work and aligning my future with what resonated with me and fits me.

Working on Amazon Kindle projects more than likely would be:
  • Simple - It's not hard to write content
  • Creative - I can write about any topic and any when I pick one, any idea in that topic with a touch of flair
  • Entrepreneurial - I'm working for myself, no one tells me how to do it, sky is the limit income wise
  • Stable - Maybe not rich and wealthy, but once the ball is rolling it can be stable and recurring
  • Autonomy - I have freedom and independance and options working on these projects
So if I miss my goal, all is not lost.

Now think of yourself with the goal to make $100,000 and you're in a job. You have the same values, but the only way you can get more money is to convince your boss to give you a raise, or change jobs to another company. Even if you hit $100k at another company, you are not in alignment with your values and you will have this nagging and unfulfilled desire.

It's not hard to prove either.

Look at all the depressed and sad people in the world around you. Maybe they are family members, co-workers, friends, or just people you overhear at Qdoba eating lunch next to you.

You think those people are actively doing exercises like this? Or do you think they are reacting to their surroundings like lost sheep in the woods?


Do yourself a favor....
  1. Figure out your true, real core values. Spend several days on it
  2. Make a mission statement around them
  3. Figure out your top 3 priorities
  4. Erase your old goals and make new ones based on #1-3 above. Make sure every goal fits and doesn't violate a core value or priority.
  5. Once your goals are set, set smaller daily, weekly, and monthly goals to hit those larger goals. Make sure these smaller goals that set you up to your larger goals don't violate values or priorities.
  6. In 6 or 12 months, re-evaluate who you are and your values. Adapt if need be.
OMG....thank you so much Eliquid. Every single word you've written here is just simply GOLD, and as if you wrote it to me, for me.
I really appreciate you for this, thank you, thank you....
 

baljitlewis

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I've done the 16personalities test a couple times and gotten INFP-T, or mediator. I feel like it describes me almost 100% accurately, and also makes sense why I can't stand my current job so much...
 

RaffUnscripted

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I'm also going to touch on Enneagrams and Myers Briggs personality types because this touches on the WHY behind your values and desires as well as marketing within your business to your customers.

.
Enneagram is awesome. I give the 35 question free test to all new hires. Blows their mind when they see the results.
 

AlessioLC

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Is there any way to see which career is appropriate for every profile ? (INTJ / ..... / ....)
 

eliquid

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Is there any way to see which career is appropriate for every profile ? (INTJ / ..... / ....)

Yes, there is a ton of info out there about this on Google
 

WJS

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Thank you for creating this thread @eliquid! I've done a few personality tests before and am now starting to read Enneagram to find out more details.

Of the few personality books that I've read so far I find that this book in particular is interesting:

51OPOTcN1eL.jpg

There are only 4 types of personalities introduced in the book: Popular Sanguine, Perfect Melancholy, Powerful Choleric and Peaceful Phlegmatic. Given that there are only four types of personalities most likely they would overlap with the other more complex personality traits found in the Enneagram.

This book was written humorously, packed with various real-life stories of the author's own life experiences, her family members and the people that she came in contact with. The advice given was also very wise and practical. It was one of the books that really opened my eyes about my strengths and weaknesses and what to do with them. Plus the fact that it was written in a light-hearted manner made it an entertaining and informative read. Do check it out if you have time.

Reading Enneagram might take some time as the subject itself is rather complex. But thank you for mentioning it. It would be helpful to understand myself in a much deeper level.
 

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