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GOLD! Lex DeVille's: Guru Cults Exposed: The Tactics "Experts" Use To Pull You In & Suck You Dry

aspenriver

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A well known short seller explains why Shopify will get sued by the FTC.
Have to call bullshit on this one. The guy had very weak points except that the price of the shares are somewhat high compared to revenues and profit. And even that can be explained with the future projections of total e-commerce revenue (assuming Shopify remains a big player in the space)

His main point is that he can find videos of people in Lambos selling the dream of being a Shopify millionaire just like Herbalifers.

The difference here is that Shopify is not a pyramid scheme or a get rich scheme. Some affiliates are promoting it as the way to millions, but apart from a few examples Shopify is not promoting it this way.

With the same logic of how he interprets the FTC text at 3:30 you could say Amazon is in violation.

Even more ridiculous: "One of their apps Oberlo...". Which is actually a third party app run by a Lithuanian company. This is the part where my alarm bells start ringing... What are the actual intentions of this short seller?

Problem is, these smart investor types greatly underestimate people's....ability to keep lying to themselves.
Quite the opposite. If you follow the story the stock dropped 10%+. I would be quite surprised if that guy didn't make money on this one. Unless he actually believes what he is saying.
 

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What are the actual intentions of this short seller?
FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt)

Same as Ackman when he released his paper on HLF being a scheme.

Just a marketing ploy to get to the headline readers, then cause a domino effect:
1. People who have long positions will sell thinking it's at the top
2. Then he uses his reputation as a known shorter. "Look at me! I built a successful fund shorting. Here is what I'm shorting next. You should short too!"



Quite the opposite. If you follow the story the stock dropped 10%+. I would be quite surprised if that guy didn't make money on this one. Unless he actually believes what he is saying.
HLF Herbalife Ltd. Stock Quote

It tanked right after Ackerman's presentation came out (2012). But he was betting for a home run, all the way to 0.

Sold his position at a loss in late 2017 at -$300M
 

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Thank you for an awesome thread. I think SinisterLex explained what's going on really great.

I just came back to this forum to figure out this for myself and here is my conclusion:

Of course, I've bought my fair share of high ticket info products from TIER 1 gurus (without implementing too much but that's another story) and still think that ALL of them are legitimate even if they were really expensive.

In the end, it's about the question what is "legitimate" and what is a "scam"?

I think we all agree that the tactics they are using DO work.

There are a few points we have to address here and where it get's problematic.

All of these gurus are walking a fine line with their claims which are typically unrealistic (more on that later).

These gurus are selling the dream because that's what people buy (and want to buy).

In general most of what they teach does work (for some people).

The problem is that it's hard to find the line between genuine marketing that is used as a tool to sell and what I call "entertainment"

This makes it so hard to determine where the "envelope stuffing scam" begins.

Take for example events of motivational speakers.

Some people want to be a motivational speaker. That's essentially what these marketing gurus are and teach.

And that's what they are selling. For me, that's the legitimate way of "envelope stuffing" An internet marketer teaching you how to be an internet marketer.

And that's the problem.

Typically what the gurus sell is both entertainment (selling dreams) as well as a legitimate way to build a business.

I remember talking to someone I met at a Toastmaster's event. She was making a typical $60,000/year from a corporate job. She spent over $10k buying info products, going to marketing seminars/conferences etc. The started a few projects that never got anywhere. She understood that she was buying the "dream". For here these products where entertainment.

Nothing wrong with that for her.

So for people buying "the dream" everything might be okay as some form of entertainment.

What about the claims?

As I have bought Eben Pagan's products I will rephrase what he is teaching:

  1. You need to sell them the dream, that's what people buy. It's your moral obligation to use all the manipulation tactics described in this thread, everything that works to sell. You'll only tell them the good stuff without the bad stuff.
  2. Once people buy into your program you'll tell them what it ACTUALLY takes to "make money online". This usually requires A LOT of work and resources. It can be done using funnels and all these stuff but it's not easy and not what people were promised in their marketing. This is the reason why a lot of people think these gurus are full of s**t. And of course, this requires their customers to walk the same ethical line they are walking. And even more important: This requires the commitment to really HELP people. The gurus 100% believe that what they teach works and is good for people.
This is where gets really problematic.

A lot of there customers are not at the point where their focus is to help people. They are trying the same tactics without the "right mindset". They are in for the money. They copy the tactics they learn without the mindset of providing value first (which is what the gurus preach and live all the time).

The problem here is that all of this is a marking Ponzi scheme. The motivational speaker (aka internet marketer) teaches other people his funnel stuff to repeat his success.

However, this is VERY difficult and requires a lot of testing and a lot of ad spent.

The internet marketing world follows the 80/20^4 curve. (Go to 80/20 Curve)

What these gurus teach you is "how to become a guru" or internet marketer yourself.

In order to be successful, you have to become the guru of your own niche solving real problems for real people.


Yet this is not the same as creating a course "with the knowledge you already have" to make 6 figures in 6 weeks.

And here is the next problem.

There can only be so many "kings of the hill" in online marketing.

Of course, every once in a while some of their students are able to CREATE another "blue ocean" and get rich using the same principles the gurus teach. These stories become their testimonials yet there are exceptions sometimes due to pure luck.

The other testimonials come from people how already have an ESTABLISHED business of some sort. They are already making $10k/month and ALREADY have knowledge and expertise.

Some of these people are really able to pull of 6 figures in 6 weeks or 3 months or whatever by changing their marketing. But they have put in years of work to build this expertise before serving their customers.

These people become great legitimate testimonials as well.

However, almost nobody currently making $12/hour at Mac Donald's has the ability to pull this of in a very short period of time. If you look at the stories of gurus they usually spend years learning copywriting and other things until they found their blue ocean in the online marketing ecosystem teaching other people to "make money online".

Unfortunately, there is not so much these gurus can do about these people. The principles they teach are sound. They are serving some people whether is entertainment or helping existing businesses immediately.

The average guy working a $8/h job will have to learn valuable skills first and get rid of the "shiny object syndrome". Most people are not able to leave this behind because this takes usually takes years, especially if they don't focus on ONE skill and one business idea.

Legitimate gurus know this and if you take a look at their youtube channels they openly admit this (though not in their funnels and sales webinars).

One last thing, why the gurus serve the Mac Donald's guy as well.

In the end, they BELIEVE that everyone who puts in the work can get successful following this system.

This belief is what makes all the difference.

This is someone I only understood after reading Charles Duhigg's book about habits.

You need "belief" to change habits.

Even the Mac Donald's guy can change and be successful if he changes his habits and focuses on providing value.

This belief is provided by the guru cult and groupthink.

Without it, it's almost impossible to change.


In the end, it boils down to the "intent" of the guru whether he is just starting out or in the business for years. The ones starting out usually put a lot more effort into helping you because of the lack the credentials yet.

Here is what I came up with:

  1. Stay away from gurus who are just in "for the money". Always! Do your research!
  2. There is some room for teaching the "envelope stuffing business" (e.g. motivational speaker) if you have intent to help people. It's blurry line because sometimes it's just entertainment and most people don't take action anyway.
  3. If you want to become a "guru" or successful "internet marketer" or even become a fastlane entrepreneur?
    Be honest with yourself. What is your intention? Are you just in for the money? Are you able to help people and solve real problems? Are you passionate about what you do? Are you are to solve real problems for real people?
  4. If you are just starting out and want / need to make money: Forget the guru business model (for now)! You're not ready yet. Focus on building you skills first (and get paid for that or do it for free). @SinisterLex provided a great example in his copywriting thread.
I want to end this long post with a personal story.

In 2016 I bought my last high ticket item after attending a webinar. It was an evergreen webinar which was disguised as a live webinar. I was frustrated and offended once I found out. I' don't even remember the content of the webinar. It was a joined venture webinar of three TIER 1 gurus. Yet I still bought into the $997 offer at the end from one of the TIER1 gurus. They were using all these sales tactics on me and they worked.

I don't regret it. It was the best thing I ever bought. I'm still grateful despite the tactics they used. The offer included some personal coaching.

They really believed in me. This kind of belief can change EVERYTHING. It's something that's hard to describe. It's where all this perceived value comes from.

Recently I went through the last recording of the coaching. One of the gurus left me with the question that applies to all of us in this forum:

"What's your Leonel Messi question? Or LeBron James question?"



What are you passionate about waking up every morning?

What would you do if money was no object just because you enjoy doing it?

Build a business upon that.




For some people, it is to become a guru or coach or motivational speaker.

For some, it's being a solopreneur or building a multimillion empire with 1000's of employees.

For some, it's none of that.

There is no right or wrong. It's up to you.

The gurus you can trust are the gurus that have 100% believe that they can help people. Even if their products might be of low quality in the beginning. It all starts with believing!

This is why there is no such thing "as perceived value". If somebody value's something it's real. This is where I disagree with @MJ DeMarco

The only gurus I would despise are the ones who do not stand true to their money back guarantee. This would be a scam.

Because belief is necessary for change. The real gurus are not in for the money even though they charge $997 or more to teach you some kind of "envelope stuffing". The thing they teach is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This is a legitimate Ponzi scheme because only the people who take action become successful. This takes years of hard work. As soon as you enter any course you'll know this.

However, these gurus WANT to help people. Providing value is a habit for them.

If you meet them on the street or at an event in the audience they will share everything they know for free.

Yet if you happen to see their ad and land in their funnel they will sell the hell out of you using all the tactics described.


Some of this is true for their students as well.

Some want to help and provide value.

Most of their students are just in for the money. Stay away from these people.


In the end it all comes down to intend and believe. If you believe it's a scam or not right for you it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you want to build your own guru business you might be able to help change people lives. You provide real value wether is in the form of solving a real problem or in the form of entertainment.

If you believe they get their money's worth and they believe the same it's a legitimate business.

The belief makes all the difference!
 

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@Lex DeVille , I appreciate your thread on marketing gurus. I don't have a background in marketing but I know I need to learn it.

I read Ca$hvertising and am reading Dotcom Secrets by Russel Brunson.

Russel is all about funnels and although the info looks great, your thread on marketing gurus is making me second guess this approach.

Which courses/books do you think ARE useful?

Thanks,
MG
 
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You need to sell them the dream, that's what people buy. It's your moral obligation to use all the manipulation tactics described in this thread, everything that works to sell. You'll only tell them the good stuff without the bad stuff.
I love the disclaimer on Robert G. Allen's website:

We are required by the FTC to disclose the typical customer results. Quite honestly, the typical customer does not make any money whatsoever. In fact, the typical customer does not even finish the training materials. Less than 1 in 100 ever ask a question of our coaches, leave feedback or otherwise show they're putting in any focused effort at all. Like anything worthwhile, this program does require work. The typical customer puts in very little work. Before you buy, you should stop and ask yourself if you're typical.
And the second one:

The earnings, revenue and profit results that a customer will generally achieve in circumstances similar to those depicted in the endorsements and testimonials on this site depend on many factors and conditions, including but not limited to, work ethic, learning ability, use of the products and services, business experience, daily practices, business opportunities, business connections, market conditions, availability of financing, and local competition, to name a few. Because of impediments due to any one or more of the foregoing and other factors, it is generally expected that no earnings, revenues or profits will be achieved with the use of any products or services advertised on this site in circumstances similar to those referenced in any endorsement or testimonial.
This isn't limited to "make money online" products. Even with non-fiction books (about any topic), most either don't finish them or if they do, they don't apply anything in their lives.
 
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Lex DeVille

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@Lex DeVille , I appreciate your thread on marketing gurus. I don't have a background in marketing but I know I need to learn it.

I read Ca$hvertising and am reading Dotcom Secrets by Russel Brunson.

Russel is all about funnels and although the info looks great, your thread on marketing gurus is making me second guess this approach.

Which courses/books do you think ARE useful?

Thanks,
MG
Courses that give you actual skills you need to move your business forward like adwords, copywriting, web design etc. Those are the only courses I ever take (minus copywriting because I don't want to write like other people). I don't take courses on marketing, motivation, or anything that isn't a concrete skill that can be measured in a clear way.

When I went through @Andy Black's adwords course, I didn't know adwords. But I got clearly measurable results because by halfway through the course I had already set up an adwords campaign and started running it.

Funnels are good to learn. There's nothing wrong with learning how to set up marketing funnels. The problem happens when you build a business around teaching that same marketing system while promoting it as something else.

For instance, if you promote a Tarot Card program that can get people $10,000 sales, but then you barely teach tarot at all, and most of the program is centered around those same funnels you just learned, then that would fall into the category of a guru selling guru bs.
 
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Lex DeVille

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@MTF thoughts on Andy Frisella and MFCEO now? I originally found him through your post, and liked his podcast at first. So I joined his mailing list to see where it goes.

From the first email I was bombarded with vague social testimonials to remind me what Andy does for people for free. After about 3 days of this I was invited to join the "Arete Syndicate" mastermind which requires you to apply like every other coaching group.

I don't think it could possibly have felt anymore cultish. The price wasn't revealed on the application page, so I don't know the cost. After watching the brainwash style video on the same page I unsubscribed from his list and haven't listened to another rah-rah podcast episode since.

Bringing this up because I've seen a lot of people mention MFCEO here lately.

My gut says be cautious.

Seems like a slight spin on the same old coaching funnel.
 

MTF

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@MTF thoughts on Andy Frisella and MFCEO now? I originally found him through your post, and liked his podcast at first. So I joined his mailing list to see where it goes.
I'd prefer to send you a PM about it but it seems like I can't send a message to you. Perhaps you can start a conversation and then I'll be able to reply.
 
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@MTF thoughts on Andy Frisella and MFCEO now? I originally found him through your post, and liked his podcast at first. So I joined his mailing list to see where it goes.

From the first email I was bombarded with vague social testimonials to remind me what Andy does for people for free. After about 3 days of this I was invited to join the "Arete Syndicate" mastermind which requires you to apply like every other coaching group.

I don't think it could possibly have felt anymore cultish. The price wasn't revealed on the application page, so I don't know the cost. After watching the brainwash style video on the same page I unsubscribed from his list and haven't listened to another rah-rah podcast episode since.

Bringing this up because I've seen a lot of people mention MFCEO here lately.

My gut says be cautious.

Seems like a slight spin on the same old coaching funnel.
I really liked the MFCEO podcast when I first discovered it, but it quickly sputtered out for me. Same with Grant Cardone. Maybe just a personal preference, but I get a similar vibe that just doesn't resonate with me.
 

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This is why there is no such thing "as perceived value". If somebody value's something it's real.
I think you missed the point of "perceived value" as explained in Unscripted. Perceived value is a function of marketing and expectation. If a marketer sets an expectation and it doesn't match the reality, perceived value and actual value are 2 totally different things. So you are wrong. Completely.

If I sell you a guaranteed 20% return on your investment in a promissory note, you buy on the expectation (perceived value) of receiving 20% per annum.

When you get a 3% return on your investment and then ask for your money back, you don't get it and instead I waffle with excuses, "Checks in the mail bro."

Perceived value got you to buy.
Actual value got you to want your money back.​

Obviously this example is clear cut because the perceived and actual value is numerical.

When numbers can't be assigned to perceived and actual, that's where the gray area arises.

"This book will change your life."

OMG it did! (Perceived = actual)
OMG that book sucked. (Perceived does not equal actual.)
 

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I think you missed the point of "perceived value" as explained in Unscripted. Perceived value is a function of marketing and expectation. If a marketer sets an expectation and it doesn't match the reality, perceived value and actual value are 2 totally different things. So you are wrong. Completely.

If I sell you a guaranteed 20% return on your investment in a promissory note, you buy on the expectation (perceived value) of receiving 20% per annum.

When you get a 3% return on your investment and then ask for your money back, you don't get it and instead I waffle with excuses, "Checks in the mail bro."

Perceived value got you to buy.
Actual value got you to want your money back.​

Obviously this example is clear cut because the perceived and actual value is numerical.

When numbers can't be assigned to perceived and actual, that's where the gray area arises.

"This book will change your life."

OMG it did! (Perceived = actual)
OMG that book sucked. (Perceived does not equal actual.)
I'm not arguing about where people got mislead as in your very clear example.

It's much more difficult in almost every other case. Most areas are grey areas.

In most cases, it's more about the buyer than the seller. I think the disclaimers that MTF quoted explain it very well.

What usually happens is that all gurus sell you "the six-pack abs" in all their beauty and detail.

They explain what they will mean for you (e.g. getting the girls, self-esteem, or whatever you think you want). In this phase, they only mention the necessary exercise in a half sentence or focus on what you can still eat if you stick to the exercise plan, etc. It's the just living in the promised land.

In their product, they usually give you the detailed plan on how to exercise right and some nutrition advise. Most people who buy know this stuff works but never take action.

My favorite example of a legitimate guru right now is Sam Ovens. I have not seen his webinar or his product, but I suppose it's quite good since he only sells one product at the $1997 plus and runs some "masterminds".

At the same time, there are hundreds of people who call him a scam.

How To Filter Your Information: Everybody's Wrong Until Proven Right - YouTube

I think the cases of very clear scam you describe is relatively rare. Of course, they exist but mostly for tier 3 gurus and people who just start out.

Probably even most of the "legitimate" gurus started out selling shitty products before they got better and were really able to help people.
 

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@Lex DeVille Thanks for the great thread!

How do you judge the value of an information product? Well, besides the fact that it of course has to solve your problem. For example, the stuff I teach (for free), like most other information, can also be found elsewhere. But isn't a unique perspective and a USP (for example, in my case, teaching it as fast as possible to save you time and effort) also value?

I find it hard to evaluate the value of an information product by the uniqueness of its information. Taking the example of CRM systems, there are so many out there, all aiming to achieve the same thing with (mostly) minor differences. After all, it would be weird if there was only one CRM option to choose from, and, in the case of teaching. different people like to learn from different instructors.

Would love to hear your thoughts. Again, thanks for the thread.
 

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Fantastic thread, so much knowledge! I am new to this kind of copy/marketing, having produced content with value before (not internet marketing/guru), but never really having marketed it in this way.
I think some of the "Gurus" mentioned in this thread do give value, but I'm not sure if it is worth the price charged sometimes.

Thanks :thumbsup:
 

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This is an awesome thread, thanks for sharing this info!

I've definitely gotten caught up in some of these exact situations, so I appreciate you shedding light onhow they work.
 

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There's a "trick" in public speaking where you take a seemingly long pause, that allows people to catch up. And those people who weren't paying attention, suddenly snap back to the presenter.

Idk If I'm hallucinating, but in programming, for example, every dot and bracket has a purpose. And without it, the entire app could break. So I've noticed a few webinars where their flow is just as you described.

Except they have these random, events, let's call them. Where they'll spill their drink, or something breaks. And it's always in the middle of a loop.

Are they doing this to snap people back in, while at the same time not allowing them to process what they've been fed consciously?

Or are they all clumsy?
That's not something I've encountered with the people I've worked with. It almost sounds like a modified handshake trance induction, but unless we're talking someone like Tony Robbins who's spent half his life practicing that sort of thing, I'd say it's probably just them being clumsy. I haven't come across anyone teaching a method like that, though.
Solved...

An experiment was performed which demonstrated that the
attractiveness of a superior person is enhanced if he commits
a clumsy blunder; the same blunder tends to decrease the
the attractiveness of a mediocre person. We predicted these
results by conjecturing that a superior person may be viewed
as superhuman and, therefore, distant; a blunder tends to.
humanize him and, consequently, increases his attractiveness.
- paper by Aronson, Willerman and Floyd
 
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Lex DeVille

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Here's something new I'm seeing on high-ticket guru sites..

An almost hidden statement in tiny print at the bottom of their home page.

*Individual results may vary.

It's important to add a disclaimer to say these results aren't typical, nor are they guaranteed. You actually have to apply the strategies if you want to grow your business! However, my goal is to help you cut down the learning curve in order to position yourself right, build premium programs, and attract the right customers to ultimately grow your business.
I wonder if one of them finally got sued for bankrupting someone.

I also wonder if schools have a similar disclaimer on their websites.

MLM's usually have this disclaimer.
 

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Here's something new I'm seeing on high-ticket guru sites..

An almost hidden statement in tiny print at the bottom of their home page.



I wonder if one of them finally got sued for bankrupting someone.

I also wonder if schools have a similar disclaimer on their websites.

MLM's usually have this disclaimer.
It's probably something like this real life case study...

Even if you apply everything right, it might get you only mediocre results...

Skyscraper Technique Case Study: Why Famous SEO Strategies Won't Work For You
 

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Jevaughn M

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Man, there’s so much info in this thread. It’s honestly pretty overwhelming. I don’t even know where I should start in order to apply any of it. Should I just start by reading Cashvertising?
 

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Lex DeVille

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Man, there’s so much info in this thread. It’s honestly pretty overwhelming. I don’t even know where I should start in order to apply any of it. Should I just start by reading Cashvertising?
This isn't a copywriting thread, so it probably isn't the best place to start if you're looking to learn copy. Ca$hvertising does introduce you to copywriting tactics. You could always start with my copywriting thread in my signature if that's what you're looking for too.
 

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Hey Lex, I want to know what are your opinions of Dan Lok. I don't fall for purchasing any webinars or products but I am interested in what you have to say.
 
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Lex DeVille

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Hey Lex, I want to know what are your opinions of Dan Lok. I don't fall for purchasing any webinars or products but I am interested in what you have to say.
Took a quick glance. Looks like MAYBE a Tier 1 guru, but probably Tier 2. I've seen his name but never purchased anything by him. His website looks like it's positioned to make people believe he only works with those who are already wealthy.

Maybe that's true. I don't really know anything about him. But with my guru glasses on, those big numbers like $10,000 per hour and $100,000 per day make the teensy weensy $9.99 price of his ebooks seem like a steal (and by steal I mean steal your money).

Looks like he has fairly good reviews on Amazon, but I'd have to go digging through them to find out the truth because it's too easy to BS Amazon reviews. Also, if he's such a great marketer, why do so many of his books have so few reviews (like 3 and 17)?

Judging only by his website, and Amazon there's nothing I'd purchase. But I'm not the kind of person who pays for millionaire mindset kind of stuff. I wouldn't buy from this guy, but I also wouldn't buy advice from Mark Cuban. Nothing against either of them, it's just not my style.

If you're doing something that fits their expertise, and you have $10k to blow, then what the hell, otherwise, probably not worth it.
 

Neng Her

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Took a quick glance. Looks like MAYBE a Tier 1 guru, but probably Tier 2. I've seen his name but never purchased anything by him. His website looks like it's positioned to make people believe he only works with those who are already wealthy.

Maybe that's true. I don't really know anything about him. But with my guru glasses on, those big numbers like $10,000 per hour and $100,000 per day make the teensy weensy $9.99 price of his ebooks seem like a steal (and by steal I mean steal your money).

Looks like he has fairly good reviews on Amazon, but I'd have to go digging through them to find out the truth because it's too easy to BS Amazon reviews. Also, if he's such a great marketer, why do so many of his books have so few reviews (like 3 and 17)?

Judging only by his website, and Amazon there's nothing I'd purchase. But I'm not the kind of person who pays for millionaire mindset kind of stuff. I wouldn't buy from this guy, but I also wouldn't buy advice from Mark Cuban. Nothing against either of them, it's just not my style.

If you're doing something that fits their expertise, and you have $10k to blow, then what the hell, otherwise, probably not worth it.

Thanks Lex.
 

Martin Boeddeker

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Took a quick glance. Looks like MAYBE a Tier 1 guru, but probably Tier 2. I've seen his name but never purchased anything by him. His website looks like it's positioned to make people believe he only works with those who are already wealthy.

Maybe that's true. I don't really know anything about him. But with my guru glasses on, those big numbers like $10,000 per hour and $100,000 per day make the teensy weensy $9.99 price of his ebooks seem like a steal (and by steal I mean steal your money).

Looks like he has fairly good reviews on Amazon, but I'd have to go digging through them to find out the truth because it's too easy to BS Amazon reviews. Also, if he's such a great marketer, why do so many of his books have so few reviews (like 3 and 17)?

Judging only by his website, and Amazon there's nothing I'd purchase. But I'm not the kind of person who pays for millionaire mindset kind of stuff. I wouldn't buy from this guy, but I also wouldn't buy advice from Mark Cuban. Nothing against either of them, it's just not my style.

If you're doing something that fits their expertise, and you have $10k to blow, then what the hell, otherwise, probably not worth it.
I have stumbled over him.

He focuses on teaching people how to sell over the phone. (High ticket closing)...

This is pretty valid in in demand profession, so it might work.

His content on Youtube is pretty good and he started out as a successful copywriter as well.

He is solid but I would not invest in his products...

Like with most gurus, you can learn most from what they put online for free and say when they are not trying to sell you something directly...

In this day and age there is so much "free content" available, there is no need to pay anyone for a high-ticket online course alone.

If there is a great community around it might still be worth it, but you can have that for free (or almost for free on the inside) in this forum...

One tip to legally get access to this stuff for free I found today...

Start Your Free Kartra Academy Membership

It's great training on VSL's, funnels, etc thought by 3 of the most successful online marketers (Frank Kern, Andy Jenkins & Mike Filsame)

Of course they hope you try to use their software (which I am using for my business), but this type of content used to cost 2k in the past...

These days are gone.

People getting sucked into online courses these days are at least 5 years too late to the party...

If you use this free information in another niche it might still work but it's definitely not as lucrative as online marketing used to be.

The usual model was:

1. You learn this marketing stuff from gurus.
2. Apply this in your niche (and get some results)
3. Teach people the marketing in the niche that you serve
4. These people will buy the stuff in your niche & your marketing stuff -> this drives your sales

Everybody else is too late to the party...

The key is to really create your own niche.

No many people are able to pull that off because you have to be creative...

Just to copy paste does not work...
 

Brad S

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Here's something new I'm seeing on high-ticket guru sites..

An almost hidden statement in tiny print at the bottom of their home page.



I wonder if one of them finally got sued for bankrupting someone.

I also wonder if schools have a similar disclaimer on their websites.

MLM's usually have this disclaimer.
Its mainly to protect them from a FTC lawsuit.

The FTC has successfully sued numerous of them.

Frank Kern being one example.

They all have disclaimers even in YouTube video ads.

Tai Lopez ads that bombard YouTube have in pretty big print at the bottom:

Tai is a professional marketer who has been doing it for many years, your results will probably not be similar to his...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

NFT

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Tai Lopez ads that bombard YouTube have in pretty big print at the bottom:

Tai is a professional marketer who has been doing it for many years, your results will probably not be similar to his...
Its so funny: Under Tais video the disclaimer was:

"Tai is a professional internet marketer. His results are not typical. You might make more, less or the same"

Yeah sure if you buy this online course you might make more than him, who knows....
 

momomaurice

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Thing I hate to see is a lot of entrepreneurs could help a lot of people out there with their advice and courses but they don't want to be labeled a "guru" so they small and don't get their message out there to help as many people as they could. They don't want to face the critiscm or the flak that will come their way so they find a different way to sell their courses by coming on forums or groups and instead of helping more people they help a small fraction of what they could. You can talk about these guys all you want, I even bought a course from Tai Lopez and I thought it sucked a$$ but I think fair play to the guy he's out there living his life while all of us are on a forum talking about him. Do you think Tai Lopez is sitting at home talking about us on the Fastlane Forum, F*ck no, that's why he's out there banging models and driving lambos and stacking cash.
 
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Lex DeVille

Lex DeVille

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Thing I hate to see is a lot of entrepreneurs could help a lot of people out there with their advice and courses but they don't want to be labeled a "guru" so they small and don't get their message out there to help as many people as they could. They don't want to face the critiscm or the flak that will come their way so they find a different way to sell their courses by coming on forums or groups and instead of helping more people they help a small fraction of what they could. You can talk about these guys all you want, I even bought a course from Tai Lopez and I thought it sucked a$$ but I think fair play to the guy he's out there living his life while all of us are on a forum talking about him. Do you think Tai Lopez is sitting at home talking about us on the Fastlane Forum, f*ck no, that's why he's out there banging models and driving lambos and stacking cash.
If being labeled a guru stops them from sharing courses that could help people and make a difference in the world, and as a result stops them from growing their business, then they ain't entrepreneurs and never were.

Seems like you think threads like this cause people to stay small. That's what I call victim mentality - putting the responsibility for one's own success on anyone other than one's own self. This thread doesn't hold a gun to anyone's head and tell them not to make courses or share them beyond a forum.

Hope I don't offend you by labeling it "victim" but from your post, I'd guess I already did and now you're second guessing whether or not you should even bother with your course...wouldn't want to be labeled a "guru" after all.

Criticism is part of life. You and other wannabes may not like that. You may even want to hide from it or get mad at people who do it, but pulling the covers over your head don't make the monsters go away. Just makes you an easy target.

You can talk about these guys all you want, I even bought a course from Tai Lopez and I thought it sucked a$$ but I think fair play to the guy he's out there living his life while all of us are on a forum talking about him. Do you think Tai Lopez is sitting at home talking about us on the Fastlane Forum, f*ck no, that's why he's out there banging models and driving lambos and stacking cash.
I wasn't talking about Tai Lopez until you (another person who got scammed) brought him up. Now that he's fulfilled the claim this thread, you're trying to make yourself feel better about what happened to you (that's also victim mentality) by defending the person who ripped you off. Makes sense.

f*ck no, that's why he's out there banging models and driving lambos and stacking cash.
lol...after reading this sentence, I regret putting in the effort for the previous parts of my response.
 
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