Learning to Program is STUPID! (or SMART?!)

[CryptO]

this has gone of course a bit

lol

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

But I do have to thank you for reminding me again why money doesn't correlate with anything real.

Sorry, but its symbolic to how much value you have given. Money is highly correlated to value.

Just for the sake of sharing can you please tell me the name of your company so I'll make a note never to do business with you or your company.

There's a reason why I don't share anything identifiable about my businesses...

So you call him out on the very thing you refuse to do.

For all you know I could be Richard Branson or Sergey Brin.

After looking at the registration for your account, it's safe to say you're not.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize you made this thread with provocative title and then start to cry when somebody disrespectfully disagrees with your idiotic notions about things you clearly have no experience with.

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying - the delivery, not so much.

Learning to program is stupid!

Count me in as *stupid* -- I'd rather be stupid and rich, than smart and poor.

In all seriousness, I didn't comment on this thread because I feel it was delivered in an "all or none" fashion -- "learning to program is stupid" is an absolute statement that leaves no room for interpretation w/respect to individual strengths or weaknesses.

It reminds me of the old "Is going to college stupid?" question that gets so heatedely debated around here -- the true answer depends on the person. As qhead mentioned, some people can pickup the nuances rather quickly, others cannot. Some can delegate/lead/outsource better than others.

This is not a "one size fits all" answer, just like the age old college question.

My take.

Hope the two of you take a deep breath and step back from the conversation -- after reading all of it, I think both of you make some very valid points that everyone can ascribe to their personal situation.

 

[BrucetonGuy]

Count me in as *stupid* -- I'd rather be stupid and rich, than smart and poor.

I might make this my new signature.

 

[healthstatus]

Just for the sake of sharing can you please tell me the name of your company so I'll make a note never to do business with you or your company.

Thanks that would be awesome. HealthStatus.com, Inc. - Health Status Health Risk Assessments and Health Calculators and Health Risk Assessment Software - HRA | ** Recommended **

 

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[healthstatus]

Count me in as *stupid* -- I'd rather be stupid and rich, than smart and poor.

In all seriousness, I didn't comment on this thread because I feel it was delivered in an "all or none" fashion -- "learning to program is stupid" is an absolute statement that leaves no room for interpretation w/respect to individual strengths or weaknesses.

I wanted to make sure my post got read, and a controversial subject line is always a good start!

MJ, you and I were programming our initial sites back at a time when if it worked most of the time, it was cool and above average. I believe you didn't get rich off your programming skills, you got rich with your marketing of products (limos.com and TMF ) that filled a need.

I just see thread after thread of people saying, I learned HTML in a few weeks, so now I am going to write my social app for 100,000 users after I spend 3 more months learning programming because I am broke and there are not any other options. Today, if your app isn't solid, secure and responsive, you won't get a second chance with users.

If you spend your time learning to program, you still have to spend time to learn how to sell it. My advice, learn how to sell first, then you have options on deciding whether to hire or outsource to a skilled programmer, hire a team, or since you have a stream of income, you can take 3 years and really learn to code.

 

[qhead]

Sorry, but its symbolic to how much value you have given. Money is highly correlated to value.

Well of course, I agree with you on that and I should have been more specific. So let's specify, to me money doesn't have any correlation with wisdom in anyway. By the way, so if money is symbolic to value you have given, how does non-profit organizations fit in? I can't remember if you said something about this in MF but I'm interested to hear what you think about non-profits. A bit off-topic but this whole thread is pointless so I don't think nobody will report you to moderator.

So you call him out on the very thing you refuse to do.

Notice that it was after he was making waves for himself about being public about his businesses. I really don't give a shit about his businesses but I just wanted to check out the sites, and let's just say it was pretty much what I expected. I refuse to share details about my businesses because I simply want to be anonymous.

After looking at the registration for your account, it's safe to say you're not.

No shit But I guess you understood the point that it's a bit ridiculous to say what healthstatus said without actually knowing anything about the other person. He has no idea whatsoever what is my "track record". For all he knows I could be the CEO of some service you or he uses daily... Actually even if you check my IP, it won't really tell you anything because I'm always connected via either VPN or TOR.

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying - the delivery, not so much.

Well, I know this sounds harsh but try to understand the point behind this: the delivery really doesn't concern me. I place the responsibility of extracting the information on the reader. Positivity and negativity are just concepts that your brain carries so if you can't find information from negative text, you are missing half of the spectrum - but it's individual choice and we both know what choice the majority makes. You should know, you are the one who has the black book with all the negative feedback

Like you I consider all feedback I get without placing that much weight on whether it seems positive or negative. Like you I noticed a long time ago that everything that happens to you can be traced back to your own behavior. However all the points that healthstatus made are invalid because they really don't offer anything else than opinions without any backing up. The fact that he made some sites that makes money doesn't really qualify him for giving advice on anything else than something related to his website. Telling people that programming is stupid because you can learn marketing and magically the dough starts rolling in... do I even need to continue? If he got offended, too bad. Like I said earlier, if you make a dumb comment to me, I'll tell you about it.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I just see thread after thread of people saying,

Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast...

Just like thread-after-thread of "$100 to $100 million in 100 days!" -- it get's really old.

And you know what else gets old? "I want to start a lead generation company!" -- why? Because I did it YEARS ago? FN YEARS AGO.

Also old: "I have this great idea!!! Is it Fastlane!?"

That said, I advocate doing EXACTLY what will work for you. For some, that means learning how to program. For others, it's outsource, delegate, and partner.

And yes, ultimately all entrepreneurs must learn to be market and sell because entrepreneurship is always about selling: You sell to to potential customers, to potential employees, to potential investors, etc ... the "selling" really never stops.

 

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[theag]

[video=youtube;jvW-4Phac4s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvW-4Phac4s[/video]

 

[qhead]

What qualifies you?

Yawn, I'm going to follow theag's lead and express myself with visuals.

 

[LamboMP]

Count me in as *stupid* -- I'd rather be stupid and rich, than smart and poor.

me too!

 

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[Skys]

I can not resist to not respond to this thread.
The reason for this is because of my own struggle in the decision: To code, or not to code.

When I read the fastlane book, I didn't really understand much of it. Too much out of my comfort zone and too much out of my reality. I wanted to become a millionair. It was nothing more then a dream. In the book MJ lines out what the best possibilities are to get on the fastlane. At that point, I realised internet, really, was the only choice for me (considering start up capital)

I bought dreamweaver, and I started to learn how to code with a buddy of mine. I wanted to be able to launch the newest Facebook as quickly as possible, all I needed was to learn HTML5, CSS and some other coding stuff. If I had read this thread then, and then read 'outsourcing vs coding yourself', I would perhaps not continued to learn how to code. Because, to excel you need to be really, really good.
The new Facebook? Well, no matter how hard I will work, I will not become the new Zuckerberg. Now, I don't even want to be. I use 'the new facebook' as a sort of analogy to explain a bit of my weirdly thought process of the 'quick fix'. "I just have to learn this, and then I will be rich". Healthstatus, I think, tries to warn people like me. How I was, when I just became a member of this forum. Learning how to code, to get some genius idea and then be rich, well..that's no process.

On the other hand, I could decide (but that would be my own decision to make) to learn how to code now. Will I make an app in a couple of months that rocks angrybirds out of the market? Nah. Probably not. On the other hand, will I be somewhat capable of coding if I just kept training myself on a daily basis? Maybe 30 to 60 minutes a day for the next 10 years? Maybe expanding time a bit once I get the hang of it and start to enjoy it more and more? (i find it a bit boring to do now, but I am fascinate to see letters change on the web into something good looking). I don't know. I am asking.

At this point. I have no business. I don't even have an idea. I am finishing the university, I will be 30 when I am done. Still young, atleast, I feel young. When I dedicate to those 10 years learning how to code, wouldn't that be something that help me to get fastlane then?
I will still be able to learn other stuff (I start to really re-love human resources again), learning new skills (including marketing etc).

I seriously don't know. I just try to be not all black and white here. "No coding, OR coding".. So my question would be, why not dedicate 28 hours a month for several years? You might become good at it and being able to build an idea yourself through the web, or, you might be able to communicate really well with the people you outscource your idea too. Make sure you don't get screwed over, know their language etc

What do you guys think?

I kind of failed a bit by making this post. My plan was to do more reading and more doing. Little fallback.

 

[qhead]

At this point. I have no business. I don't even have an idea. I am finishing the university, I will be 30 when I am done. Still young, atleast, I feel young. When I dedicate to those 10 years learning how to code, wouldn't that be something that help me to get fastlane then?
I will still be able to learn other stuff (I start to really re-love human resources again), learning new skills (including marketing etc).

I outlined the problem for you. As long as you don't know where you're going, you will never get there.

Don't dedicate 10 years for coding. Instead when you have that idea, research what it would take to make it happen. If it's insanely complex, you might not even want to attempt with that idea because complex applications are hard to get right and while you make it, you might find out that the market didn't exist after all.

What I would recommend is that if you feel like you want to go into software business, take 1-2 months to create minimum viable product. I don't have time right now to explain that concept but read Eric Ries blog to find out more. After creating MVP you can test whether the market exists and now you know how software is made. Note: at this point all you need is the product, the offer and one single marketing channel where you put your offer up. If your MVP fails to attract attention, don't scrap the idea just yet but instead consider your core offer. What is it that you are offering to people? You might find ways to spin it around to something else rather quickly and the best part is that now you know how to do it yourself.

Of course I have no way of being absolutely correct about this but I would say that if you start to learn programming whatever language you find suitable right now and keep creating MVPs, you should be up and running under two years. The possibility of doing bad ideas and chasing markets that don't exist is always there but doing the first phase yourself always teaches you something new along the way. Most likely the problem won't be your programming but finding the market and crafting up the offer.

 

[Skys]

Sure. I understand what you and health status both say about wasting lots of time learning something without a clear and reachable goal and I agree.

The goldmine is the internet. That's where the money is made nowadays. B&M companies will always be there, but the entry cost is way higher and perhaps too high for most. Internet is a smart and low cost way to start your business.
You say, that building a superb software (is app also software?) is extremely complex. I can only imagine how complex it must be to make something that people can really use, with only using numbers and letters during the producing process.

I think that's where healthstatus and you agree on. You both say that's is dumb to start to learn how to program without a clear idea just to build a superb application. Especially when you consider a lot of the posters here say they will all learn this in a couple of months. I think that's insulting to guys like Healthstatus, MJ and you. Ten years of your life is long, especially if you don't know why you are learning it. I decided two weeks ago that I will not learn how to code. You and healthstatus cleared it up for me even more why I won't. "It's too hard" may sound like a limiting believe. Tony Robbins would be angry. Then again, to become an entrepreneur you don't really need to learn to code. It's not just about that. With that, I agree with Healthstatus, that, if you want to become an entrepreneur and make money you are better of learning how to sell.. Being an mediocre coder with superb sell capability might get you further as an entrepreneur then the other way around?

If I spend 30-60 a day (that's what I am willing to give) for the next 10 years, with all I have read about it, I will be not much more then an okay programmer. I would be able to build websites (but, there are plenty templates and wordpress).

Just because internet has a low cost too start up,does not make it a good reason to learn how to code. No process, just some wishful thinking.

 

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[qhead]

The goldmine is the internet. That's where the money is made nowadays. B&M companies will always be there, but the entry cost is way higher and perhaps too high for most. Internet is a smart and low cost way to start your business.
You say, that building a superb software (is app also software?) is extremely complex. I can only imagine how complex it must be to make something that people can really use, with only using numbers and letters during the producing process.

Value of the software (yes, app(lication) is software) is not tied to it's complexity. In the cases of Google and Facebook it's the scale that makes them a complex system. Both of them started as pretty simple software. Google was basically scraping bot, key/value database and the famous PageRank algorithm which wasn't even invented by Brin or Page (only applied to the internet). Facebook was a simple PHP & MySQL application that let people make a profile and add other people as friends. However the complexity starts to creep in when you need to make it scale.

My point is that the app can be as simple as mashup of publicly available APIs like the webservice that took for-rent apartments from Craigslist and showed them over Google Maps. You can do that with very basic programming in few weeks.

I think that's where healthstatus and you agree on. You both say that's is dumb to start to learn how to program without a clear idea just to build a superb application. Especially when you consider a lot of the posters here say they will all learn this in a couple of months. I think that's insulting to guys like Healthstatus, MJ and you.

But remember that it's equally dumb to start learning marketing if you don't even have a product what to market. Of course you can always go the affiliate marketing route but trust me, it's very, very boring and you are always in danger that somebody changes their TOS or just doesn't like you.

In my opinion you really need to have a product in mind before you start to learn anything. I'm not saying that sit on the sofa until the magic idea appears but instead learn and research how to cultivate ideation and trust me, ideas will start popping up. Once you start generating ideas, it's a task on its own to stay focused on one thing at the time.

Ten years of your life is long, especially if you don't know why you are learning it. I decided two weeks ago that I will not learn how to code. You and healthstatus cleared it up for me even more why I won't. "It's too hard" may sound like a limiting believe. Tony Robbins would be angry. Then again, to become an entrepreneur you don't really need to learn to code. It's not just about that. With that, I agree with Healthstatus, that, if you want to become an entrepreneur and make money you are better of learning how to sell.. Being an mediocre coder with superb sell capability might get you further as an entrepreneur then the other way around?

If I spend 30-60 a day (that's what I am willing to give) for the next 10 years, with all I have read about it, I will be not much more then an okay programmer. I would be able to build websites (but, there are plenty templates and wordpress).

10 years is based on the study about how it takes 10000 hours to master a skill. You really don't need to become master programmer to do anything unless you of course want to but it's not a requirement.

Just by reading (and doing the exercises!) something like http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470487372/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20 should give you enough knowledge to start developing simple apps. The reason you hear that it took like 5 years to become good programmer is that majority of the programmers are self-taught by just starting to code and learning on-the-fly from tutorial sites. I did that.. can't recommend. And when you study like that, you don't know what you don't know so you can miss some basic steps that will make it so much harder to understand the higher level concepts.

 

[Skys]

But remember that it's equally dumb to start learning marketing if you don't even have a product what to market.

Why?

Let's say I learn marketing. I have several skills I am accumulating. I am learning a new language at the moment, I am learning creative writing and I am learning a lot about negotiating at the moment.

Let's say, in a few years, I realise there is a need for a product. But, it has nothing to do with coding. Wouldn't you say, that it's way better to learn marketing? You learn how to sell any product/service you come up. If you learn how to code, you can only bring something coded to the market, and you are not even capable of selling it. Maybe u make something like Likwid24, maybe you start importing/exporting .. maybe you enter real estate, .. maybe coding..

Wouldn't you say it's then better to have a skill that is more broadly and can be aplied in whatever fastlane-business you enter, then doing it the other way around: learning how to code, and making that your only road for entry?

I'm not saying that sit on the sofa until the magic idea appears but instead learn and research how to cultivate ideation and trust me, ideas will start popping up

Interesting, I never saw this as an 'seperate' skill.

 

[qhead]

Let's say I learn marketing. I have several skills I am accumulating. I am learning a new language at the moment, I am learning creative writing and I am learning a lot about negotiating at the moment.

Let's say, in a few years, I realise there is a need for a product. But, it has nothing to do with coding. Wouldn't you say, that it's way better to learn marketing? You learn how to sell any product/service you come up. If you learn how to code, you can only bring something coded to the market, and you are not even capable of selling it. Maybe u make something like Likwid24, maybe you start importing/exporting .. maybe you enter real estate, .. maybe coding..

Wouldn't you say it's then better to have a skill that is more broadly and can be aplied in whatever fastlane-business you enter, then doing it the other way around: learning how to code, and making that your only road for entry?

You are right. However what I was saying is that if you choose to learn one skill and you know you want to be in the software business. Then I strongly recommend programming. Learning basics of marketing is much faster than learning how to handle a completely new language.

There's also multiple subcategories under the term marketing so when somebody says you need to learn marketing you might want to ask them to define what exactly they mean by marketing. I would suggest you start with copywriting. If you go in the mobile app market, then Apple & other platform vendors have already done the marketing channel for you so SEO and other that type of marketing is low priority. Even with ready-made marketing channels you still want to know the basics of copywriting so you can make a compelling description for your app.

Again, it all depends on the idea. There's no single way or thing to learn that will suddenly make everything happen when you get the idea you want to make happen. If you want to be jack-of-all-traders, I can highly recommend it but beware that it's going to take a long time to actually become good at so many things. If you have an idea and you do your homework, you only need to become good at few things.

Contrary to MJ, I would rather be smart and poor than rich and dumb. But at least from my experience it's easier to get rich when you are smart... and even easier to grab the market share from dumb participants.

 

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[psaco131]

Just a tip from my own experience at Elance. Really do your homework on who will be working on your project because it seems a lot of the so called "companies" just outsource they're job to freelancers. The person constructing my site is very unprofessional & unorganized. Something that should have taken 3-4 weeks has spilled over into 9-10 weeks and still isn't finished!

 

[Scuderia]

Great thread and really good debate.

I've been on the sidelines aswell, should i learn coding OR not.

This is what i decided:

This is the process i plan on doing.

Market Research - > Presell page (don't build yet) - > Demand ? - > Hire awesome programmer ($85+ a hour) - > Build minimal viable product (37 signals) to small budget (e.g. 10k max) - > Email list from presell page - > Marketing -> Adjust to consumer demands

The key here is the market research and finding/identifying the problem, and you can dramatically reduce the risk by creating a presell page for the product before you build it. If you really think about it, you can build tones of presell pages for your ideas, see where the demand is and then invest your resource there (capital into a really good programmer).

As some people were saying before MARKETING and DRIVING TRAFFIC is the key here, because you want to find what works before you invest and risk capital. THE KING IS TESTING.

Also understanding whether your idea can go FASTLANE and scale is also key here. E.g. coder costs you 10k but the idea has potential to earn millions

Any suggestions on this approach/improvements to this approach, or things which you see which could possible go wrong let us know.

 

[Skys]

One thing that might also be a consideration: How much time do you have?

If I look at myself, I can act as if I am super busy but I am not that busy. I go to college. I am graduating. In my free time, I work. I am learning about marketing, branding and all that jazz. I am reading good books about those subjects and nowadays I train myself writing 'fake' copywrites.

I still have spare time left, lots of it to be honoust. I could decide to learn to code a bit just for fun. Not because I think I will get rich of it, but, just to learn me some skill for fun.

 

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[FastNAwesome]

As this thread goes on and on, I'd just like to point one thing as someone who programs since elementary school.

Programming is a lifestyle, a life choice. Programmers are super geeks. Learning never stops. You gotta love it. Just go to stackoverflow and browse threads a bit until you find a conflict of opinions. You'll see some very harsh flaming there and very burning emotions over "upvote" or "downvote".

Why I say all this? Just to point out that many take "learning programming" too lightly. It got too complex and it gets more complex. There's much more components to it than newb can comprehend. It would be similar to asking "should I learn to build a house". You sure can - I know people who did. Build it on your own (bring friends to help), do the plumbing yourself, the electrity, everything. You can get a decent house that way + bragging rights, and lose a ton of time in the process.

So in general, to make an typical app or website by today's standards all on your own, here's a list of some things
you need to learn, a knowledge set to do it yourself:

1. HTML
2. CSS
3. JavaScript
4. Some server side programming language
5. SQL and database design

Ok, so that's 5 languages - and it's just a bare minimum to make an app or dynamic website.
So when you learn all this, you can make your app that functions but is ugly and non-marketable
because we haven't even touched yet on:

6. Design
7. User experience

But ok, you cover that too, either by hiring someone to do it,
or adding even that to your skillset.

So now your website finally shines on your big nice monitor,
and you're finally ready to do it! You feel proud and start
sending link to friends, just to hear from them "it's not working",
"it's sort of broken", "i get some warning".

Oh, no. We forgot to make sure your website looks and works properly on
all major operating system x web browser type x web browser version combo.
And also on monitors of different size. And on mobiles.

Yes, different browsers, and different versions of the same browser see your
site differently, and have different "skill level" at interpreting your creation.
So you have to take care of:

8. Cross browser and cross platform compatiblity.

Ok, with that out of the way, you're finally good to go, so put your app online and enjoy. Everything
will probably be cool. You don't have to check stats, you'll know when you get big, as your website
will be so hacked and owned in no time! Because you didn't even have a clue that there's a thing called:

9. Security

You didn't cover that. Just made your app work, in belief no one will try to access it in malicious way. But they will. You don't even have to make it. You can have the lousiest site ever, with 1 visit a month. Some automated bot will find your vulnerable contact form, and use it to send 10k spam emails on your behalf, and at your expense. So then will your host hopefully shut down your site and send you a warning, because if they don't you can get blacklisted for spamming.

---

CONCLUSION:

I, who know to program and have even build quite complex apps on my own - plan to delegate programming to someone else as soon as I can as it just takes too much time. Just in the past month I had to familiarize with 5 new APIs, and right this moment I'm learning LESS (extension of CSS).

You can get a strong hold of it, and nothing bad in learning, just be aware that it takes a lot of time, and decide for yourself.

And whenever you get a hold of it, there's something new to learn.

This is why there are front-end developers, back-end developers, database administrators...

Geeks (if any) please spare me tech remarks ("js can also be used server-side" etc.)
I just tried to paint a rough picture that things are more complex than usually perceived.

 

[cants]

I don't think learning to program is exactly stupid just because you're an entreprenuer. I'm currently learning PHP mySQL right now and it's been interesting so far, but I only limit my "learning" time to 1 hour a day" because It's not my priority. My priority is building my business but I'm hoping that in 2 years, I'll be able to create my toy site At the same time, I'm also giving more time everyday to study advertising and branding (reading books and doing actual online experiments).

What would be stupid is losing your focus in running your business and not being able to take action because you're busy studying all day, that's stupid especially if you're already have bills to pay and a family to support.

I'm a fan of taking small but consistent steps everyday for achieving your goals, it just happened that learning how to program is one of them because I see a lot of benefits. It doesn't really hurt to burn an hour a day learning how to program just as long as you don't take your fastlane plans for granted.

 

[Skys]

What an reality check.........! Love it. I had no idea about all you just wrote man! tnx FastnAwesome

 

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[healthstatus]

It is one thing to say you are going to learn a little code and knowing that will help you in your business, that is NOT STUPID.

Saying I will spend a few hundred hours learning to code and then will be a good enough programmer to write a professional level app, STUPID.

 

[AndrewNC]

Ok, didn't really read the whole thread on here, but FastNAwesome made a good post. It does not have to be an 'either/or' decision. I made a post the other month outlining my problems with outsourcing coding. At that point, i was in the "learn it yourself" category. I now have a mentor who is an excellent programmer and he outlined major flaws in where I am now. Security being the main risk. It is a lot easier to hack sites than I previously imagined. Something I was not too familiar with until he began teaching me.

I don't think I am in the "anti-learning" phrase yet. Learning to code is not bad. Why not learn code and use that knowledge to build a rough prototype to hand off to an expert to build an amazing application? A recent program I am working on, I am doing just that: Programming in PHP and MySQL and then use that as a model for the outsourcer to follow to make it something A+. This underlying knowledge is very beneficial when it comes to knowing how to outsource.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[cilaes]

I can code like a boss.

I'm scared of marketing, and it's definitely my downfall. In turn, I don't make shit through my coding ventures. It's also hard to get someone to hire me to code because I have to charge so much to make it WORTH it, when they can outsource for pennies on my dollar.

However, when I do have good ideas, it's nothing for me to throw up a MVP (minimum viable product). However, like I said, once I get done I usually LOSE FOCUS and lose confidence, and never get around to deciding to throwing any cash into marketing it. I would much rather be well versed in marketing rather than coding. Facebook, groupon, twitter: neither were anything revolutionary, it's the insane amount of traffic they were able to obtain that made these wallets fat.

There went my $0.02, now I'm broke! ;]

 

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[FionaS]

I feel like having at least some background in programming can be very helpful to your business. Being able to make some edits to your website without having to wait for someone else to get around to it is a great asset.

If you are learning to program simply because you don't want to spend the money, however, I feel like that could be a waste of time, especially if you have something more complicated. Programmers spend years practicing to get as good as they are. It doesn't make sense to put that much work into starting a business, it would just delay your business from getting started longer and longer.

I see nothing wrong with learning how to program because you want to know how, though. It's a good skill to have. It just seems like learning how to program just to get your business up would just add added expense (in time) to your business.

If you have a viable business, you'll get back the money you spent for someone to code your website or app or whatever anyways. You'll never get that time back.


*/Sent on my iPhone via Tapatalk, please excuse any mistakes./*

 

[Milkanic]

My $.02 on the topic. The computer/pc is possibly the most important tool invented in the history of mankind.

You are stupid to not learn at least the basics of how it works. Everyone should know how to write a simple program.

It's like saying you shouldn't learn math because you could hire someone to do math for you.

 

[healthstatus]

My $.02 on the topic. The computer/pc is possibly the most important tool invented in the history of mankind.

You are stupid to not learn at least the basics of how it works. Everyone should know how to write a simple program.

It's like saying you shouldn't learn math because you could hire someone to do math for you.

You obviously did not read the original post. My issue is with people that think they can write a professional level program within 6-10 weeks of time. That is STUPID!

Anyway, programming is not a basic skill like math, it is an advanced skill. It is more accurate to say, I shouldn't learn to change the oil in my car (a much more important tool than the PC) because I can hire someone to do that.

 

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[The-J]

I'd drop $10k on a programmer before I dropped 1000 hours of my time learning a programming language. I'll learn programming AFTER I'm rich.

 

[DustinG]

As this thread goes on and on, I'd just like to point one thing as someone who programs since elementary school.

Programming is a lifestyle, a life choice. Programmers are super geeks. Learning never stops. You gotta love it. Just go to stackoverflow and browse threads a bit until you find a conflict of opinions. You'll see some very harsh flaming there and very burning emotions over "upvote" or "downvote".

Why I say all this? Just to point out that many take "learning programming" too lightly. It got too complex and it gets more complex. There's much more components to it than newb can comprehend. It would be similar to asking "should I learn to build a house". You sure can - I know people who did. Build it on your own (bring friends to help), do the plumbing yourself, the electrity, everything. You can get a decent house that way + bragging rights, and lose a ton of time in the process.

So in general, to make an typical app or website by today's standards all on your own, here's a list of some things
you need to learn, a knowledge set to do it yourself:

1. HTML
2. CSS
3. JavaScript
4. Some server side programming language
5. SQL and database design

Ok, so that's 5 languages - and it's just a bare minimum to make an app or dynamic website.
So when you learn all this, you can make your app that functions but is ugly and non-marketable
because we haven't even touched yet on:

6. Design
7. User experience

But ok, you cover that too, either by hiring someone to do it,
or adding even that to your skillset.

So now your website finally shines on your big nice monitor,
and you're finally ready to do it! You feel proud and start
sending link to friends, just to hear from them "it's not working",
"it's sort of broken", "i get some warning".

Oh, no. We forgot to make sure your website looks and works properly on
all major operating system x web browser type x web browser version combo.
And also on monitors of different size. And on mobiles.

Yes, different browsers, and different versions of the same browser see your
site differently, and have different "skill level" at interpreting your creation.
So you have to take care of:

8. Cross browser and cross platform compatiblity. (and good good luck with Internet Explorer,
which you will HAVE to cover due to it's market share. It will tear your dreams apart. Just seeing
your creation in this garbage browser can make you want to give it all up. Try typing "ie hate" into
any search engine, even bing::smx1

Ok, with that out of the way, you're finally good to go, so put your app online and enjoy. Everything
will probably be cool. You don't have to check stats, you'll know when you get big, as your website
will be so hacked and owned in no time! Because you didn't even have a clue that there's a thing called:

9. Security

You didn't cover that. Just made your app work, in belief no one will try to access it in malicious way. But they will. You don't even have to make it. You can have the lousiest site ever, with 1 visit a month. Some automated bot will find your vulnerable contact form, and use it to send 10k spam emails on your behalf, and at your expense. So then will your host hopefully shut down your site and send you a warning, because if they don't you can get blacklisted for spamming.

---

CONCLUSION:

I, who know to program and have even build quite complex apps on my own - plan to delegate programming to someone else as soon as I can as it just takes too much time. Just in the past month I had to familiarize with 5 new APIs, and right this moment I'm learning LESS (extension of CSS).

You can get a strong hold of it, and nothing bad in learning, just be aware that it takes a lot of time, and decide for yourself.

And whenever you get a hold of it, there's something new to learn.

This is why there are front-end developers, back-end developers, database administrators...

Geeks (if any) please spare me tech remarks ("js can also be used server-side" etc.)
I just tried to paint a rough picture that things are more complex than usually perceived.

Excellent Post! Agreed. I have strong HTML and CSS (& some Javascript & PHP knowledge) which lets me customize sites, but for anything more complicated, I'd rather pay someone who does this type of stuff for a living. It's not enough to just learn how to code - you need to constantly make sure you're aware of changes.