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HOT TOPIC Jobs aren't bad.

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strick

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A lot of people seem to think jobs are anti-fastlane. If it's your end goal, then that's probably true. If it's one step in a larger entrepreneurial journey, it may be the best choice.

This is an example of something I ran into from another thread. I thought it would be an interesting discussion:

Just learning to code to become someone elses wage slave is a terrible idea. You came to this site to escape the rat race permanently.

Yes, but working for others for awhile is sometimes the best option within your longer journey towards entrepreneurship and financial independence. You have to look at a job from a different perspective and not get too comfortable and dependent on that monthly salary.

Some great reasons for taking a job before/while starting your business:
- Get paid to learn and build your skills
- Save up capital to fund your business
- Learn how an industry works
- Learn how a company works(bonus points if it's a startup)
- Learn how to work with people(and deal with company politics)
- Pay your living expenses so you don't starve and stay out of debt.

Think of yourself as a spy. You are trying to learn all you can in a short amount of time so that you can be more successful in your own business venture.

Jobs aren't evil, they're just jobs. It all depends on your perspective and attitude.
 

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DeletedUser0287

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A lot of people seem to think jobs are anti-fastlane. If it's your end goal, then that's probably true. If it's one step in a larger entrepreneurial journey, it may be the best choice.

This is an example of something I ran into from another thread. I thought it would be an interesting discussion:



Yes, but working for others for awhile is sometimes the best option within your longer journey towards entrepreneurship and financial independence. You have to look at a job from a different perspective and not get too comfortable and dependent on that monthly salary.

Some great reasons for taking a job before/while starting your business:
- Get paid to learn and build your skills
- Save up capital to fund your business
- Learn how an industry works
- Learn how a company works(bonus points if it's a startup)
- Learn how to work with people(and deal with company politics)
- Pay your living expenses so you don't starve and stay out of debt.

Think of yourself as a spy. You are trying to learn all you can in a short amount of time so that you can be more successful in your own business venture.

Jobs aren't evil, they're just jobs. It all depends on your perspective and attitude.

Yeah I gotta get a job in a field where it’s applicable to my business. Wasting 8hrs a day here...
 

ecommercewolf

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The job also does not have inherent risk. Yes, always the risk of being fired which is why you want to eventually get into fastlane but the company is taking on the risk aspect vs if you own your own business.

Also, when you factor in the cost of health insurance and medical benefits your salary ends up being more. People underestimate the cost of insurance benefits that you would have to pay on your own when you run your own business. A job should be viewed as a stepping stone to help you get into fastlane, and like you said the right attitude matters.
 

floridaman

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I totally agree. So many people demonize jobs and they throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If you look at life/business as a game, getting a job at some point along the way is just a singe MOVE on the board. It can give you needed income, knowledge, and experience. I've learned a ton by working at tech startups, both on the technical side and the social side (social/power dynamics and office politics).

It's completely contextual as to whether or not getting a job is the "right" move.
 

Andy Black

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I was in IT for 15 years, the last 10 of them as a self-employed contractor. I fell into Google Ads one day and then decided to take a couple of jobs to reskill. In those jobs I worked for an arbitrage company spending €120k/day on ads, and then a tech startup where we built 120m keywords and ads to acquire 15k signups a day.

Those jobs helped me get skills and experience I doubt I would have gained otherwise. I’ve since gone back to working for myself.

Jobs have their place, especially if you go in with your eyes open and with a view to coming out the other side.
 

Andy Black

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Also:

“You have to stay in it to win it.”

If flipping burgers kept me in it so I could work on my own stuff then I’d have zero qualms about doing it.
 

strick

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The job also does not have inherent risk. Yes, always the risk of being fired which is why you want to eventually get into fastlane but the company is taking on the risk aspect vs if you own your own business.

Also, when you factor in the cost of health insurance and medical benefits your salary ends up being more. People underestimate the cost of insurance benefits that you would have to pay on your own when you run your own business. A job should be viewed as a stepping stone to help you get into fastlane, and like you said the right attitude matters.
Yes, good point about the health insurance.

I'd also argue one of the greatest risks with a job is getting too comfortable and staying for too long out of fear. People often overlook the risk of spending a large portion of their life doing something because they think it's the safe option. I think spending many years not going after your goals is the greater risk. You'll never get that time back.

Get what you need out of the job to set yourself up for business success, then go.

There is risk no matter what you do and it's not always obvious. Life is risky.
 

Mike Partee

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/startdevilsadvocate

This only applies if you're not placed in a position as a cog, and/or in a toxic company with no upward opportunity. I've also found that you'll work a lot harder if you're the owner of what you do, versus lining somebody else's pockets.

Also if you're providing a service, you can't sell the job...
But you CAN sell a business after a few years.

If you start off as a freelancer and put capable people in your shoes to fulfill the work as you grow, this puts you in a good position to sell for a lump sum (which is exactly the path I took).

Take it as a grain of salt. It's undoubtably a personality thing as I utterly detested working for other people and did a lot better on my own than working within a pre-existing structure.

/enddevilsadvocate
 

Bekit

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Think of yourself as a spy. You are trying to learn all you can in a short amount of time so that you can be more successful in your own business venture.

YES! Someone else sees this!

I read a story recently of some people in Kansas who donated a whole bunch of farming machines to a village in Southeast Asia. A team went over and taught them how to use it all.

That year, the village produced record quantities of rice. Everyone was super excited! This was going to finally raise the standard of living of the whole community.

The Kansas team went home. A couple of years later, someone went back to visit and see how things had progressed.

To their dismay, they discovered that the equipment was all broken down and rusting in the field. Some of it had never even been used. All the rice farmers had gone back to their old ways of planting and harvesting.

And the farmers said, "If you guys would just come back here, we would be able to get record crops again."

===========

I thought about this. In other words, they needed someone else to actually shoulder the responsibility to keep the equipment running, make needed repairs, and have the vision of continuing to move things forward. That's really sad. They should have been able to do that. If a guy in Kansas can do it, a guy in Asia can do it. Right?

But - I'm like that, too, in my own way.

If someone handed me a multi-million dollar company to run, you'd think it would significantly improve my financial situation. I would never have to worry about money again.

You would think.

But if I'm not ready to handle the assets that have just been handed to me, then pretty soon, that company will be "rusting in the field," too.

That's why I look at my employment as a reconnaissance mission.

I don't look at myself as a wage slave, even though I know my income will be MUCH higher when I get to the point where I have aggressively hustled to the point where my side hustles become my main hustle. I'll get there.

But in the meantime, at every company where I have worked, I constantly ask myself the following questions:
  • What qualities does it take to be the business owner here?
  • What is this company doing that I like?
  • What is this company doing that I would change if I was running things?
  • If I was the business owner, how would I want me to do my job?
  • Where does the income come from in this business? What activities move the needle the most?
  • What roles are the leaders playing? Am I embodying those same roles in the side hustles where I'm the leader?
  • What is the difference between a large business and a small one in this industry?
  • What would it take to scale this company 10x?
  • etc.
Really, the only thing holding me back from being the leader in my own thriving company is that I haven't decided to step into those bigger shoes. In that way, I'm like those rice farmers. I don't quite realize the magnitude of what it entails to repair the equipment and delegate tasks and manage projects to completion and innovate and keep on pushing the envelope.

When I'm in the course of my daily pursuit of the fastlane, and the "equipment" breaks, do I shrug and say, "Welp, that's too bad. Guess I've gotta settle for the poor old way of doing things. So much for bigger and better things." ?

Or do I go track down the mechanic, order the parts, and get busy learning how to fix it?

Working as an employee in a prosperous business gives you an inside chance to WATCH WHAT THEY ARE DOING and learn what it takes to do that (and BE that) yourself. Super valuable.
 
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James Orman

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If you start a business in the same field your previous job was in the company can sue you. Ive seen Joshua Fluke on youtube explain how his dad lost his home because of en evil corporation suing him for anti compete. He had decades of experience and couldnt just shift his skills elsewhere....
 

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Mike Partee

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You are trying to learn all you can in a short amount of time so that you can be more successful in your own business venture.
Another thing. I don't think either situation is comparable; Excellence in one domain does not necessarily mean transferability. I believe the skillset to be a successful entrepreneur is fundamentally different than the skillset of a successful employee.
 

strick

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/startdevilsadvocate

This only applies if you're not placed in a position as a cog, and/or in a toxic company with no upward opportunity. I've also found that you'll work a lot harder if you're the owner of what you do, versus lining somebody else's pockets.

Also if you're providing a service, you can't sell the job...
But you CAN sell a business after a few years.

If you start off as a freelancer and put capable people in your shoes to fulfill the work as you grow, this puts you in a good position to sell for a lump sum (which is exactly the path I took).

Take it as a grain of salt. It's undoubtably a personality thing as I utterly detested working for other people and did a lot better on my own than working within a pre-existing structure.

/enddevilsadvocate
OR you can flip it around and say that when you were working that shitty job in a toxic company you learned a lot about yourself and what you want out of life. You also learned what not to do and how you wanted to run your own company. You can also better empathize with your employees and understand how to better motivate them and treat them with respect.
 

csalvato

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Take it as a grain of salt. It's undoubtably a personality thing as I utterly detested working for other people and did a lot better on my own than working within a pre-existing structure.

It's a bit more than a personality thing.

There are many factors that come into play when deciding whether or not a job is the right move for someone to make on the board. Personality is one of them (and a small one, imo).

I think the underlying point here is that having a job is an option – one that is the right move in some contexts. And that's ok.

Getting a job shouldn't make you feel like you're failing on your journey, so long as you're still making moves on the board.
 

Mike Partee

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I think the underlying point here is that having a job is an option – one that is the right move in some contexts. And that's ok.
No doubt.

Always been an advocate of "every situation is unique;"
You have to do what's best for you.
 

GigMistress

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I totally agree. So many people demonize jobs and they throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If you look at life/business as a game, getting a job at some point along the way is just a singe MOVE on the board. It can give you needed income, knowledge, and experience. I've learned a ton by working at tech startups, both on the technical side and the social side (social/power dynamics and office politics).

It's completely contextual as to whether or not getting a job is the "right" move.

I could be wrong, but I think that many people who "demonize jobs"are people who also won't want to put in the time and effort and do the non-fun parts of running a business--that is, people who aren't so much assessing the pros and cons of a job versus building something of your own as annoyed that they're expected to work.

There's a big difference between saying, "Traditional employment can be a trap, and if you're experiencing X, Y and Z, there is a better way" and the whole "sucks working for the man" mentality.

And, of course, not all jobs are created equal. I've had two really fantastic jobs where I leveled up my skills, made a lot of great connections, and was surrounded every day by people who inspired me to be better.

Interestingly, every single person I've kept in touch with from the best one now has his/her own business except one...and that one has a high-level job with a lot of autonomy at a company started by one of the others.
 

DecayHeat

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I totally agree. So many people demonize jobs and they throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If you look at life/business as a game, getting a job at some point along the way is just a singe MOVE on the board. It can give you needed income, knowledge, and experience. I've learned a ton by working at tech startups, both on the technical side and the social side (social/power dynamics and office politics).

It's completely contextual as to whether or not getting a job is the "right" move.

Agree with this

Underrated username btw haha
 

Patrickg

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A job is fuel for your business until it reaches sustainability..

I’m in a situation currently where cash flow is tight in my business , because of inventory etc.

long story short I am looking at working for a year, to build up the inventory and cash... at a Job.

I agree it’s just one move on the chess board. Because my company in the long term will be better positioned to buy the inventory it needs etc. without me sucking the salary.
 

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Blackman

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100% agree on this.

Unfortunately, we live in a world nowadays where it seems that the current generation wants to skip the grinding part of growing and jump straight into having a business, being your own boss and making millions doing feck all.

They don't seem to realise that you have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and you learn to walk before you can run. I might be wrong, but I think this is all due to the Internet/technology, the "instant gratification" age that we live in.

There's just too much that's thrown in front of you every day and it's all so accessible, where you can see how wealthy people live, what they do, what they drive, the places they go to and of course, the kids want it all NOW.

No one wants to spend 10-20 years working a 9-5 job only to figure out a way out of it a decade later. So having a job doesn't sound sexy enough, hence the reason why you often have jobless youngsters "in the pursuit of entrepreneurship", thinking that having a job is beneath them or they are too good for it, while in reality being worth jack sh1t themselves.

/endrant
 

Ben Taylor

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While there are some obvious positives to leaving sooner rather than later, the largest benefit being time freed up to commit to your fastlane venture, the question of when to quit is definitely a more personal and contextual one than anything else. To give an example, and echo something already mentioned, health insurance is a big deal for some people; I have an incurable neurological condition and need health insurance that I wouldn't receive if I left my J.O.B.

But that doesn't mean it's the wrong call for everyone, especially if you know your business will cover most, or all, of your living expenses.

Either way, here's a good article on the topic that I think handles the issue pretty well: When Should My Side Hustle be Full Time?
 

WJK

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A lot of people seem to think jobs are anti-fastlane. If it's your end goal, then that's probably true. If it's one step in a larger entrepreneurial journey, it may be the best choice.

This is an example of something I ran into from another thread. I thought it would be an interesting discussion:



Yes, but working for others for awhile is sometimes the best option within your longer journey towards entrepreneurship and financial independence. You have to look at a job from a different perspective and not get too comfortable and dependent on that monthly salary.

Some great reasons for taking a job before/while starting your business:
- Get paid to learn and build your skills
- Save up capital to fund your business
- Learn how an industry works
- Learn how a company works(bonus points if it's a startup)
- Learn how to work with people(and deal with company politics)
- Pay your living expenses so you don't starve and stay out of debt.

Think of yourself as a spy. You are trying to learn all you can in a short amount of time so that you can be more successful in your own business venture.

Jobs aren't evil, they're just jobs. It all depends on your perspective and attitude.
I agree. A job can be a bridge. It can be a blessing. It can be a training ground.
I also have noted that a lot of people think that they want to go into a field or business without knowing anything about it. That's the perfect formula for failure. How can you build a superstar business, or even a successful one, IF you don't know what you are doing? How do they know they'll like to do it? How do they know they'll be good at it?
It's like my business -- residential real estate. People think I sit back and just collect my rents. I am constantly told how lucky I am to be successful. They don't see the daily grind. How would they deal with a bad tenant? Could they calmly stand there while someone cusses them out -- and then deal with that person with kindness and an even hand? What if they had to clean up someone's nasty mess? There's nothing sexy nor fun about many aspects of my business. BUT, conversely, it feels pretty good on the first of each month when the rents roll in...
All these issues are where a job comes into the picture. If someone wants to go into residential real estate investing, that person could come work for me. There are several levels and types of jobs -- administration, maintenance, bookkeeping, management... Think of all he could learn from handling the day-to-day issues. And he would also have access to me allowing him to ask questions and observe how I deal with problems, challenges, and opportunities. That would allow him to start small by buying one investment property and try it -- before he jumps in with both feet. His chances of being successful would be much higher.
 

James Klymus

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I don't think anyone here will tell you that jobs are evil. Once you're out of college you'll more than likely have some sort of bills that you're responsible for. And 99% of the time a job is the quickest and easiest way to bring in a steady income to cover your monthly responsibilities.

Then you're free to work on your projects in your free time, while allowing your self at least the basics of food, water, shelter and clothing. In other words, the job is the tool you use to get by and cover your basics of living, while working on your business, or even becoming an intrapreneur at a company.

Like it's been said dozens of times on the forum, Fastlane is a mindset.
 

100ToOne

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Great point.

Most entrepreneurs don't believe jobs are bad. The person who usually says that is someone who wants to sell you the course of the century where you can play CSGO and your blog generates 10k+ a month.

Entrepeneurs would usually tell you on the long-run, most jobs are:
- limiting your growth
- working for way less than you're worth
- having to follow someone else's decisions, instead of making your own

etc.etc.

Which is true.
 

AA1980

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I’ve been reading “The E-Myth” as my wife recently started her own business. He brings up some interesting points.
He says that there are three personalities; the entrepreneur, the technician, and the manager.

My wife is basically the technician, as she’s doing all the work, and not spending time thinking about the business. The author states that if your business can’t run without you doing all the work, you’re not really a business owner. You have a job. Further, if you’re not spending time doing the other two things, then the “business” will likely fail or never get to the next level.

Just some perspective for those who are thinking about starting a business.
 

DaRK9

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IMO sales or operations are the only jobs you should have if you are wanting to have your own business.

If you want to be a freelancer then that's different.
 

Lionhearted

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Pretty well EVERY entrepreneur started with a job! As far as I was concerned it was my biggest motivating factor. You have to pay the bills somehow.... You start with a job, you realize that it will NEVER give you the life of your dreams (most cases) and you use it to grow and evolve into the person you need to become to get free of it and move towards your dreams.
The JOB is the first step in my books but too many people see it as THE only step. I see jobs as the foundation that you start and build from. I would never put down gainful employment especially if you are using it to leverage into your future.
I think every entrepreneur needs to learn that selling their time for money is good starting strategy but a very poor long term strategy. You CAN'T scale your time. You only have 24 hours in one day.
I certainly don't see a problem in working for a paycheck if you are using the paycheck to invest in your future. You will make mistakes as an entrepreneur and sometimes you will totally fail and lose it all. Robert Kiyosaki became a millionaire (allegedly) selling nylon wallets and then lost it all because he did not patent the idea. So if you lose it all a job is a good fall back position to gather yourself up again and give it another shot.
Personally, having a job that was not fulfilling was a HUGE motivator to figure out how to no longer do the job.
What ever it takes to get you to your dreams. All the best.
 

GigMistress

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If you start a business in the same field your previous job was in the company can sue you. Ive seen Joshua Fluke on youtube explain how his dad lost his home because of en evil corporation suing him for anti compete. He had decades of experience and couldnt just shift his skills elsewhere....

There's a significant difference between "if you start a business in the same field your previous job was" and "if you violate an enforceable non-compete." Presumably, someone starting a business would take the trouble to understand the contracts they'd signed and get legal advise if pertinent.
 

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