Is opening a Coffee Shop a good idea ?

[garyjsmith]

People love this thread. Can you updated us with where you are with your plans and project currently?

 

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[mom]

But whilst we are on the subject of saturation i see many on here promoting Amazon/e-commerce businesses. If ever there is over saturation it is in that field..or am i wrong?

Coffee shop....if you are that passionate about just invest in a Starbuck's Franchise (not fastlane though)
Most coffee shops are 2 a penny and i'll bet they are lucky to make a small profit

 

[ALC]

But whilst we are on the subject of saturation i see many on here promoting Amazon/e-commerce businesses. If ever there is over saturation it is in that field..or am i wrong?

Coffee shop....if you are that passionate about just invest in a Starbuck's Franchise (not fastlane though)
Most coffee shops are 2 a penny and i'll bet they are lucky to make a small profit

I know the margins at Starbucks are huge, but i will not throw money in howard schultz's wallet i want to create my own brand, i don't want to work for anybody.

Because if i open a Starbucks, i could make a decent amount of money, but if i open my own shop and that i can franchise it, i could win way more.

 

[ALC]

People love this thread. Can you updated us with where you are with your plans and project currently?

Actually i had a commercial space with a terrace but the owner has just taken away the right to use the terrace.
I have another one in the south of france in negotiation but after this one, i will need to search again and maybe in Paris too..even if i really want to go in the south of France.

I will update the thread if i got news.

 

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[ThirtyOne]

start with NEED.

Is there a need for coffee shops where you are? If there's one on every block, sorry, no need.

However, if you know a lot about coffee, and lots of people are consuming it, can you supply a need within that market? Not distributing coffee itself, but something else coffee-related. For example....

Knowing very little about coffee myself:

1. could you create a proprietary process that involved soaking roasted beans for a time, in say, honey or maple syrup? to give it a sweeter taste? that way, those trying to get away from adding sugar, can have a slightly-sweeter-than-black cup, and still feel like they are going black. license this process to the big players.
2. coffee is a diuretic. could you manufacture a coffee cup or powder that has an anti-diuretic in it? why not? caffeine is a drug.
3. can you create a post-coffee mouth wash that combats bad breath/whitens teeth? really, this would be a normal mouth wash that does those things, but marketed specifically for coffee drinkers, and sold at coffee shops. Maybe even a one-shot version with a tear top that you can then license to big players to sell with every order of coffee they get.
4. etc
5. etc

These ideas may be dumb or unexecutable, but they might give you some place to start. Good luck.

 

[ALC]

start with NEED.

Is there a need for coffee shops where you are? If there's one on every block, sorry, no need.

However, if you know a lot about coffee, and lots of people are consuming it, can you supply a need within that market? Not distributing coffee itself, but something else coffee-related. For example....

Knowing very little about coffee myself:

1. could you create a proprietary process that involved soaking roasted beans for a time, in say, honey or maple syrup? to give it a sweeter taste? that way, those trying to get away from adding sugar, can have a slightly-sweeter-than-black cup, and still feel like they are going black. license this process to the big players.
2. coffee is a diuretic. could you manufacture a coffee cup or powder that has an anti-diuretic in it? why not? caffeine is a drug.
3. can you create a post-coffee mouth wash that combats bad breath/whitens teeth? really, this would be a normal mouth wash that does those things, but marketed specifically for coffee drinkers, and sold at coffee shops. Maybe even a one-shot version with a tear top that you can then license to big players to sell with every order of coffee they get.
4. etc
5. etc

These ideas may be dumb or unexecutable, but they might give you some place to start. Good luck.

Actually a good coffee don't need sugar, so that's exactly what i'm trying to do :
1. Open my own Espresso Bar with the greatest patries/Services/coffee beans
2. Roast my own coffee
3. Sell it
4. Scale my concept
5. Fastlane, and even if this doesn't happen, at least i would have tried and i prefere to work for my own brand.

There's no big need in the coffee industry in itself, we just need more and more product everytime.
Actually the big thing would be, being a food supplier for coffee shops, but there some much regulations/laws and there's not many possibilities

 

[ThirtyOne]

There's no big need in the coffee industry in itself, we just need more and more product everytime.

This might be your problem here. There's always a need. The ones who make it big see it and fill it first/best.

Actually the big thing would be, being a food supplier for coffee shops, but there some much regulations/laws and there's not many possibilities

Barrier to entry + need are two of the Fastlane commandments. If you dodge them, guess what? You often end up not in the Fastlane.

 

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[ALC]

This might be your problem here. There's always a need. The ones who make it big see it and fill it first/best.



Barrier to entry + need are two of the Fastlane commandments. If you dodge them, guess what? You often end up not in the Fastlane.

Yes, but the problem is for example i'm actually searching for new fruits juices, with a decent quality and branding to get attention from my customer (a nice bottle always win), but guess what, if i buy it from my supplier for 1.80euros, and sell it for 3.50 euros, i'm only making 1.8~margin, that's nothing.

In the other way, i have the same quality in my actual supplier, the quality is there but the bottles are not that nice, we're selling not a lot, but the margin is huge, we buy the unit for 0.80 euros.
That's why i'm searching for the same type of margins of the product 2 but with the branding of the branding 1.

> That's look like an opportunity for me, surely but i'm sure the farmer of the product 2 got his own lands and can allow himself to make these margins.
The producer of the product 1, i think he is importing his fruits and then work those products and then got the final product > the juice.
So many middleman

 

[ALC]

The other day i saw that a guy launched a business some years ago and was just making some energy drinks with a good marketing / branding, apparently he sold his business for few millions, i'm very confused on what i need to do. I mean my concept is good and could potentially work. But if it's as easy as making cool drinks / nice bottle and being able to do social media marketing..i mean that guy just had to add his products to the local stores, pay ads on Facebook & IG and ask for local food/coffee business to sell his products and sit all day waiting for the money to come.

He made a lot of money, grow the sales as much as he could and then ask he saw the opportunity to sell his business while the sales were at the highest point...Fastlane.

 

[GastonEE]

Hi guys,

I've recently introduced myself on that forum and i was wondering what's your thought on Coffee Shop, is it scalable or is it a dead end and a direct way to the slowlane ?

I've been a Barista for 4 years now, i know everything about coffee history and coffee industry, i'm a manager in a Coffee Shop and i run it besides the owner (my parents own it) so i know everything about how to manager suppliers, H.R, Financial ressources and everything who goes with it (Communication, Social, Events)

I deeply think that opening a Coffee Shop is too simple and that if it's too simple, everyone can copy it and maybe do better than me, and if that happen', i would be kind of stuck..
Everything i see on this forum is about bringing value to people, got no expectations from anyone, i've already got that mindset as my parents taught me it all my childhood but i'm stuck with that idea that Coffee Shop was scalable at the time where Starbucks wasn't on the French Market but market is kind of full with Starbucks who's opening like EVERYWHERE.

I could bring value in this domain because i got the knowledge and i care about my customers, my team, as much as i care about my product and quality, even if speed is the assets...but everywhere i go (coffee shop), i don't see creativity, i don't see quality, you got my point..The Sugar Franchise..Starbucks!

The only thing is, i want to create a business that can be franchisable, not that i care only about money, but money can buy your new parents house in the seaside, that's my motivation...

What's your thought on that ? Any suggestions ?
I'm good at what's from italian culture so if you got an idea(coffee,cooking,pizzas...), don't hesitate.

Thank you for taking the time to read

I think that the most important part in your future business is the place of your cafe and competitors around. You're right, there are a lot of similar places and you can be unique with your service and quality of the products. Thus you should think first about a popular place and what cafes surround you there.

 

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[ALC]

I think that the most important part in your future business is the place of your cafe and competitors around. You're right, there are a lot of similar places and you can be unique with your service and quality of the products. Thus you should think first about a popular place and what cafes surround you there.

In what i will do (products/food), i think there is 2-3 cafés in France who do what i want to do..that's my opportunity.
But in the other hand, i see people who make food/drinks and finally earn more than us, coffee shop owners...some entrepreneurs always say "Always try to sell showels, it's way simple and need less work" > In other word, make the drinks and food and products the coffee shop owners need and sell them as much as they need.

 

[garyjsmith]

it's way simple and need less work

I don't think selling shovels is less work; you're merely supplying to more people who are 'digging for gold.' If you roast, you can supply to everyone who makes coffee vs being the consumer and producing the end product for your customers. Also, you have more control over your roast/blend/brand; something you don't have when you purchase from another roaster/distributor.

 

[ALC]

I don't think selling shovels is less work; you're merely supplying to more people who are 'digging for gold.' If you roast, you can supply to everyone who makes coffee vs being the consumer and producing the end product for your customers. Also, you have more control over your roast/blend/brand; something you don't have when you purchase from another roaster/distributor.

When i said selling shovels i was thinking about making food/drinks that coffee shops owners order every week for their customers.
> Some make their own meal while being supplied with food and then sell them to the customers.
> Some want to be supplied with pre-made meals (Salads/Bagels/Pasta....) and are constently searching for the product who will different themselves from the others : You produce cool drinks with cool marketing and brand with a resonnable prices, you scale it to every marketplace & business possible and you're out of problem... Maybe not the most simple, but simplier than starting a coffee shop and then waiting to scale it (search a commercial space, A reliable franchisee..)

I know a lot of Drinks supplier who only change the bottle and then add flavoured sugars to the drink and they sell super good.

 

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[ThirtyOne]

I know a lot of Drinks supplier who only change the bottle and then add flavoured sugars to the drink and they sell super good.

Are you sure?

If that's all it takes. Do it. You should be a millionaire in no time.

If you're hesitating, maybe you think there's more to what they did to succeed.

 

[ALC]

Are you sure?

If that's all it takes. Do it. You should be a millionaire in no time.

If you're hesitating, maybe you think there's more to what they did to succeed.

Actually i'm very interested about this, but i don't know how they do to get custom bottles (glass) and i don't know where to start ! lol
I'll take a look on google, i know there is some guys who talk about it

 

[ThirtyOne]

Actually i'm very interested about this, but i don't know how they do to get custom bottles (glass) and i don't know where to start ! lol
I'll take a look on google, i know there is some guys who talk about it

Sounds good. Please post an update when you've gotten somewhere with it. Thanks!

 

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[Greg R]

This thread was created on July 19th.

Did you even start yet???

 

[ALC]

This thread was created on July 19th.

Did you even start yet???

Of course, i'm waiting for my my architect's plan and my terrace right, then I sign.
It's not like an e-commerce where you just have to push a button it take months to get even one deal.

 

[trace987]

I can understand you because I am also a true fan of a good coffee. It is really difficult to find some good and local (not franchise) coffee shop with an understanding of how to make coffee drinks. but as I see at the market and as I've noticed about most of the people and big coffee shop chains - no one care about true technique and quality. It is just a trend to drink coffee but most of the people wouldn't spend a lot on a cup. You should carefully analyze the market in general in France after you analyze competitors and then analyze preferred area for your coffee shop. Would it be reasonable to open a new one or it is better to expand the family business? If you ever read Starbucks story, Howard Schultz began with a couple of coffee shops, trying to negotiate with previous owners of Starbucks to expand the business but keeping quality and values. It doesn't matter what will you choose later, you can be satisfied with 2-3 coffee shops and be passioned about it running the successful small business, but what if you will be more ambitious at a time? And of course if you have money and you've started make something work, it is great.

 

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[ALC]

I can understand you because I am also a true fan of a good coffee. It is really difficult to find some good and local (not franchise) coffee shop with an understanding of how to make coffee drinks. but as I see at the market and as I've noticed about most of the people and big coffee shop chains - no one care about true technique and quality. It is just a trend to drink coffee but most of the people wouldn't spend a lot on a cup. You should carefully analyze the market in general in France after you analyze competitors and then analyze preferred area for your coffee shop. Would it be reasonable to open a new one or it is better to expand the family business? If you ever read Starbucks story, Howard Schultz began with a couple of coffee shops, trying to negotiate with previous owners of Starbucks to expand the business but keeping quality and values. It doesn't matter what will you choose later, you can be satisfied with 2-3 coffee shops and be passioned about it running the successful small business, but what if you will be more ambitious at a time? And of course if you have money and you've started make something work, it is great.

I don't want to expand the family business, i want to create my own brand/business.
Starbucks is only doing what i call 'gourmandises' (treats), you'll only find sugar in their drink, yet so many people go consume everyday...
I do want to create an espresso bar with an italian style, do i know if it will work ? I think yes because nobody is doing it, but there is a chance that i won't be successful. I think i just have to try and see...

 

[trace987]

I don't want to expand the family business, i want to create my own brand/business.
Starbucks is only doing what i call 'gourmandises' (treats), you'll only find sugar in their drink, yet so many people go consume everyday...
I do want to create an espresso bar with an italian style, do i know if it will work ? I think yes because nobody is doing it, but there is a chance that i won't be successful. I think i just have to try and see...

Yes, of course, Starbucks became worse with a time. It is not that easy to control quality over thousands of coffee shops. I don't know exactly what demand on Italian style espresso bar in France but I think you know what to do.

 

[ALC]

Yes, of course, Starbucks became worse with a time. It is not that easy to control quality over thousands of coffee shops. I don't know exactly what demand on Italian style espresso bar in France but I think you know what to do.

There's actually not even 10 Italian Espresso Bar..i feel like there's a need as my brother is a lawyer in Paris and have always wanted that kind of concept here to eat for lunch or even take the greatest italian coffee there's in town, but none. (We've also asked many people about that idea and thought this was a great idea)
BUT, in Paris the trend is the healthy food/lifestyle (which is normal) but as everybody know, italian food is not healthy, not at all.

So there also a chance for me to start successfully is where the italian are (in France), and this is in the South of France, yet i didn't took a decision because there so much people in Paris that it would work too..

You see where i'm stuck ?
But to be honest, i really want to be in the South of France and i'm in the negociation for a commercial space in the South of France, i'm waiting for the architect's plans.
I'm also looking for Paris, if ever i find a good deal.

 

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[fracturize]

I'm big fan of coffee, wish you big success in this endeavor, I 'm watching this thread,keep it up!

 

[ALC]

As i am not in the US/UK and others country, what is the actual trends in your country ? Do you keep your habits with drip coffee/espresso and pastries, or are you curious to test new things like Nitro Coffee. I just wanted to know what is the trend/habits you got.

In France we always say that US/UK create the trend (in some way) and then 3-5 years later that trend come to France, so if ever! lol

 

[fracturize]

As i am not in the US/UK and others country, what is the actual trends in your country ? Do you keep your habits with drip coffee/espresso and pastries, or are you curious to test new things like Nitro Coffee. I just wanted to know what is the trend/habits you got.

In France we always say that US/UK create the trend (in some way) and then 3-5 years later that trend come to France, so if ever! lol

I live in Montenegro but traveled a lot , and here at my place its definitely about habits and usually people stick to places where they feel like mostly like at home, places where coffee is good but also the personnel that works there is welcoming nicely, cups are much smaller than in Starbucks for example,one thing I'd add is to add something that is supporting the coffee enjoyment, for example,make lazy bags area for people to lay and drink coffee,and maybe small projector to watch some movie for example,just a suggestion.

 

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[ALC]

I'm overthinking lately because, every successful business chain has made something different from their competitors or made something before everybody else (trend prevision).
What i want to do is not far different from what other are doing excepted an original design, the know-how, equipments and some italians pastries and food.

My family think i'm crazy to overthink at this point but i do think i'm realistic because i don't want to spend 50k on something that won't work that much compared to spend 50k that could potentially be Fastlane (invent a product / clothing brand / import a concept from an other country, something never seen on the market)

 

[GMSI7D]

Hi guys,

I've recently introduced myself on that forum and i was wondering what's your thought on Coffee Shop, is it scalable or is it a dead end and a direct way to the slowlane ?

I've been a Barista for 4 years now, i know everything about coffee history and coffee industry, i'm a manager in a Coffee Shop and i run it besides the owner (my parents own it) so i know everything about how to manager suppliers, H.R, Financial ressources and everything who goes with it (Communication, Social, Events)

I deeply think that opening a Coffee Shop is too simple and that if it's too simple, everyone can copy it and maybe do better than me, and if that happen', i would be kind of stuck..
Everything i see on this forum is about bringing value to people, got no expectations from anyone, i've already got that mindset as my parents taught me it all my childhood but i'm stuck with that idea that Coffee Shop was scalable at the time where Starbucks wasn't on the French Market but market is kind of full with Starbucks who's opening like EVERYWHERE.

I could bring value in this domain because i got the knowledge and i care about my customers, my team, as much as i care about my product and quality, even if speed is the assets...but everywhere i go (coffee shop), i don't see creativity, i don't see quality, you got my point..The Sugar Franchise..Starbucks!

The only thing is, i want to create a business that can be franchisable, not that i care only about money, but money can buy your new parents house in the seaside, that's my motivation...

What's your thought on that ? Any suggestions ?
I'm good at what's from italian culture so if you got an idea(coffee,cooking,pizzas...), don't hesitate.

Thank you for taking the time to read

the first thing i would do before doing anything else is going to coffee shops in town and asking people why they go there, what is missing there, what they want and so on

you should know coffe shop customers better than themselves before doing anything else.

it is not about you and your idea

it is above the damn customer who wants things that we would never think of in a million years


you get the point

" hi, excuse me , i am doing a research here is a few questions .. "

 

[ALC]

the first thing i would do before doing anything else is going to coffee shops in town and asking people why they go there, what is missing there, what they want and so on

you should know coffe shop customers better than themselves before doing anything else.

it is not about you and your idea

it is above the damn customer who wants things that we would never think of in a million years


you get the point

" hi, excuse me , i am doing a research here is a few questions .. "

I am crazy enough to think that next coffee machines will be fully automatic (Of course an installation will be required after receiving the package) and even some coffee shop would not required more than one staff member in it ?

Because, as everyone saw, making coffee was long to prepare before (traditionnal Moka..) and then came Nespresso, automatic coffee machine at home...huge change in the market. (more than 40% in France are using this capsule methods, meanwhile the others still using instant coffee... and then, us, Baristas with 3% of the market.)

I know there is a huge gap between the US/UK market and FR market, but when you see Starbucks making less and less sales and Specialty Coffee making some progress, I think it would be better to think even further the Specialty Coffee movement and think automatisation.
Like literally, having a coffee machine capable of doing every sort of recipes (Macchiato / Drip Coffee / Espresso / Cold Brew and so on....or maybe i'm overthinking and this kind of machine would come in 5 years/10 years and won't even be used.. i don't know.

 

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[GMSI7D]

I am crazy enough to think that next coffee machines will be fully automatic (Of course an installation will be required after receiving the package) and even some coffee shop would not required more than one staff member in it ?

Because, as everyone saw, making coffee was long to prepare before (traditionnal Moka..) and then came Nespresso, automatic coffee machine at home...huge change in the market. (more than 40% in France are using this capsule methods, meanwhile the others still using instant coffee... and then, us, Baristas with 3% of the market.)

I know there is a huge gap between the US/UK market and FR market, but when you see Starbucks making less and less sales and Specialty Coffee making some progress, I think it would be better to think even further the Specialty Coffee movement and think automatisation.
Like literally, having a coffee machine capable of doing every sort of recipes (Macchiato / Drip Coffee / Espresso / Cold Brew and so on....or maybe i'm overthinking and this kind of machine would come in 5 years/10 years and won't even be used.. i don't know.

well, i don't know anything about coffe or coffe shop because i don't drink coffee.

but i see that you are very passionate about that and this is a good point.

there are starbucks in Lyon where i live and there are a lot of students that go there because they can access the internet for free.

so they don't go there to drink coffee but to meet people , doing their homework and surfing the web

the coffe shop is just a mean to an other end !

so you should think about that

 

[ALC]

well, i don't know anything about coffe or coffe shop because i don't drink coffee.

but i see that you are very passionate about that and this is a good point.

there are starbucks in Lyon where i live and there are a lot of students that go there because they can access the internet for free.

so they don't go there to drink coffee but to meet people , doing their homework and surfing the web

the coffe shop is just a mean to an other end !

so you should think about that

You mean, making sure to get some comfy chairs and propose free wifi to get a guy staying 2h with only one espresso!..
What are your thought on Starbucks ?