How to obtain more appointments by phone

[TheFrancophile]

Hi everyone! In this thread, I'd like to ask all experienced entrepreneurs/salespeople here for specific advice. You'll be surprised to see me ask for THIS type of advice, given my past statements on this forum, but I'm convinced I need that advice. Here's the subject:

How to obtain more appointments when prospecting by phone, specifically in the wine sales industry?
(Though I hope others can draw lessons from this thread and apply them to their own industry.)​

By way of introduction, I'm a salesman for a bunch of family wineyards from across France and Italy (plus one from Germany). Obviously, these vintners have to devote themselves fully to their job (growing healthy grapes and making wine), so they need someone else (namely, me) to sell their wine to restaurants and liquor/wine stores.

Problem is, I'm not yet a very good/effective salesman (though I want to become one, because I know how important that is to succeed as an entrepreneur).
And more worringly, I work in Lyon (an ultra-competitive environment where restaurants and liquor stores are called by probably 20-30 vineyards/salespeople per day).

And so, here's how I currently do it :

1) First, I do research on every prospect I intend to call: who runs the restaurant/store, who is the sommelier at the restaurant (if they have one), what dishes and wine do they serve, what do restaurant reviews write about them, and what (if anything) have they recently posted on social media.

Though, sadly, these details are sometimes unavailable: the wine menu (and sometimes even the dishes menu) is sometimes unavailable, as are, in some cases, the names of the owner and the sommelier (if they even have one).

But if I do dig up some information, I try to make sense of it and build my script based on it, which leads us to Step 2...

2) I script most of my calls, trying to tailor them to my specific prospects. In my scripts, in the opening, I make reference to the dishes and wine they currently serve, invoke people's names, and if applicable, any recent social media posting.

3) I then call the prospect and before proposing anything, I try asking them how they chose the wines they currently have (if their list is online), or what wines they wish to have in the upcoming season (in France, different seasons call for different types of dishes, and therefore, different styles of wine; for example, in the autumn and the winter, greasy, hot, plentiful, and spicy dishes are normally served, and the best wines to pair with them are full-bodied, very aromatic wines, like the grand wines of the Rhône Valley, Burgundy, Bordeaux... kind of like the equivalents of Australian Shiraz from SA and Hunter Valley, or Zinfandel and CabSauv from California).

Here's how the call usually goes with restaurants (let's say the restaurant chef/owner is Olivier Grandchef):

Me: Good morning, my name is John Doe with the Remizieres Wineyard, may I speak to Olivier, SVP ?
Waiter/Gatekeeper: What about?
Me: I've read on your website that you currently have such-and-such wine from Vineyards X, Y and Z. That's an interesting choice, and I'd like to know, how did he select them?

OR:
Me: Good morning, my name is John Doe with the Remizieres Wineyard, may I speak to Olivier, SVP ?
Waiter/Gatekeeper: What about?
Me: I've read on your website that you change your menu every week/month to present something new everyday. I'd like to know, what wines do you think you'll need for the autumn and winter season to pair with the greasy, spicy, plentiful food typical of that season?

OR:
Me: Good morning, my name is John Doe with the Remizieres Wineyard, may I speak to Olivier, SVP ?
Waiter/Gatekeeper: What about?
Me: On your website, I've seen that you currently have an interesting wine menu for the summer, with names such as Beautiful Rosé of Provence and Easytodrink White From Italy. With the autumn and the winter on the horizon, can you tell me please, what wines from what region of France do you think you'll need a few months from now?

At this point, the waiter/gatekeeper will either:

• Try to get rid of me immediately (either by telling me straight away that "if this is about selling us wine, we don't need anything", or by asking me to send them an email that will never be replied to); or
• Putting his boss on the phone; or
• Telling me that his boss is unavailable, but will be available at a later time.

If I get hold of his boss, I basically introduce myself again and repeat the question asked of the waiter. Which then usually leads the prospect to ask:

"Why do you ask?" or "What is this about?"

To which I reply:
"I'm asking because I represent a handful of family-owned wineyards from across France which work exclusively with restaurants like yours and with liquor stores, never with supermarket chains.(1) From the Loire Valley and Alsace to Languedoc and Provence, those vintners can supply you with fine wines that can pair well with your wine, and most of them are still relatively rare in Lyon, so your customers are unlikely to find them somewhere else. And of course, never at supermarkets. I'll be happy to propose a free tasting of these wines to you. Are you available next week or the week afterwards? (2)"

Unfortunately, if I don't get the "send us an email" brushoff, I get the following one:
"Thanks, but we're all set/we already have all the wine we need, we already have suppliers for that."

At which time, I try to reply with one of the following:
"I understand, I'm sure you already have your wine suppliers, and that's precisely why I'm calling - because knowing lots of vintners, you're certainly able to make a fair comparison of the quality of everyone's wine. So, can we meet next week, or the week afterwards?" (3)

Or:
"I understand, I can see from your wine list you already have your suppliers, but it never hurts to have another one as a backup plan, in case your principal suppliers are unable to meet your demands. So, can we meet next week, or the week afterwards?"

Or:

"I understand, that's what every client of mine said at the beginning, they also said they didn't need anything, but once they tasted the wines I proposed, they were quick to place an order. You'll see that it will be worth your time. So, can we meet next week, or the week afterwards?"

Sadly, if a prospect says he's not interested/he already has everything he needs, in 99% of cases I'm unable to change his mind, no matter what technique/response I try. In some cases, when a prospect tells me in a very direct, affirmative tone, "I'm not interested" and I feel he's about to hang up, I let him do that and remove him from my prospecting list.

All the appointments I've had were with those prospects who were at least open to the idea of seeing me. (Fortunately, just yesterday, I obtained 2 new appointments.)

FINAL REMARKS​

• I know that I've said in the past (in 2018) that cold calling/phone prospecting doesn't work, and I know I was wrong about that. This thread is not intended to re-argue that point.​
• I also know that wine is not something people need, and that most restaurants in Lyon already have plenty of it. Still, I want to learn the ropes of selling by working in a very competitive environment.​
• Obviously, rejection is part and parcel of every salesperson's life; you don't need to explain that to me That being said, I'm sure there's a way to have less of it (i.e. be more successful when prospecting), and I need to know what it is.​

Footnotes:

1) French restaurants and wine stores don't like vintners who also sell to supermarket chains (although big names like Michel Chapoutier, Guigal, and G.H. Mumm seem to get a free pass on doing that). I use this fact as one of my "value-skewing" arguments.
2) Sales books, especially in France, strongly recommend using this sales technique, known as the "two alternatives technique": you propose two dates, or two timeframes, to your prospect, which only leaves him with a choice between these two, not a choice between meeting or not meeting you.
3) Sales books also recommend that, when you refute an alibi to not give you an appointment, you immediately seize the initiative by again proposing an appointment. Up to you guys to tell me what you think of these techniques.


Thanks in advance to everyone for contributing!

 

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[chevenix]

I once read about a wine salesman trying to sell his product to a very exclusive restaurant. It took him months to meet the manager. He eventually interrupted the manager at lunch and pitch for 2 minutes. It ended very well.
I can't remember where I've read that story.

Edit:
It's in the book: How to become a rainmaker by Jeffrey J Fox.

 

[Bekit]

Here's what I see that's missing from your sales pitch:

You don't have a strong rebuttal to "we're all set, we've got our suppliers lined up, thanks."

If you look at it from the customer's point of view, you're up against the following:

1. Olivier is busy and scheduling time in his day had better not be a waste of time
2. Olivier is bombarded with 20-30 calls per day, so it's hard to sort through the noise
3. The current wine suppliers are probably "satisfactory." You may only get appointments in cases where Olivier is not satisfied with something about a current supplier.
4. Adding a new supplier is probably somewhat costly in time and effort for Olivier to get familiar with what you have to offer and what he will order. It is one more task to add to his day. He needs to see how he can justify the expenditure to his time.

Two approaches that you can take:

(A) Find out what would ever cause a supplier to be "unsatisfactory" to Olivier and mention the fact that you have the opposite qualities in your standard of service.

(B) Craft what we would call in copywriting a "headline" - the biggest, boldest promise you can possibly make that evokes curiosity, implies proof, and makes Olivier want to know more.

Taking it a little deeper:

In Eugene Schwartz's legendary book, Breakthrough Advertising, he describes 5 stages of customer awareness and 5 stages of customer sophistication. You MUST know what stage of awareness and sophistication your customers are at and then tailor your message accordingly.

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Stages of customer awareness:
1. The most aware. The customer knows of your product, knows what it does, and knows he wants it. At this point, your advertising just needs to list the price. "Peaches, $1.99/lb"

2. The customer knows of the product, but doesn't yet want it. Here, your prospect isn't completely aware of all your product does, or isn't convinced of how well it does it, or hasn't yet been told how much better it does it now. Your response:

• Reinforce your prospect's desire for your product
• Sharpen his image of the way your product satisfies that desire
• Extend his image of where and when your product satisfies that desire
• Introduce new proof, details, documentation of how well your product satisfies that desire
• Announce a new mechanism in that product to enable it to satisfy that desire even better
• Completely change the image or the mechanism of that product, in order to remove it from the competition of other products claiming to satisfy the same desire.

3. The customer knows he desires a solution. The prospect either knows, or recognizes immediately, that he wants what the product does; but he doesn't yet know that there is a product (your product) that will do it for him. Your response:

1. Name the desire and/or its solutions
2. Prove that the solution can be accomplished
3. Show that the mechanism of that accomplishment is contained in your product.

4. The customer is only aware of his need. The prospect has--not a desire--but a need. He recognizes the need immediately. But he doesn't yet realize the connection between the fulfillment of that need and your product.

Your response: Call out the need upfront and then show how your product bridges the gap to a solution.

5. Completely unaware (or indifferent) market (the most difficult). The prospect is either not aware of his desire or his need--or he won't honestly admit it to himself without being led into it by your ad--or the need is so general and amorphous that it resists being summed up in a single headline--or it's a secret that just can't be verbalized.

Your response: Do not focus on price, product name, what your product does, what desire it satisfies, or what problem it solves. Focus on your market. Call the market together by echoing an emotion. Examples: Give words to a hidden dream. Exploit a hidden fear. Project a hidden desire which cannot be put bluntly into words. Use a common resentment or unvoiced protest. Project an ultimate triumph that the prospect will identify with. Then, transition into your message. This takes creativity and skill.

========

Looking at these stages of awareness, I would say you are probably dealing with #2. Try experimenting with the tips in the bullet points listed when speaking with Olivier (and even with the gatekeeper who wants to tell you off).

========

Stages of customer sophistication:
1. Unsophisticated. You are first in your market. People have not heard of what you offer. Example: If you were the first person to ever offer a weight loss product, all you'd have to say is, "Now! Lose ugly fat!" In your case, "Wine for sale" would be sufficient for an unsophisticated market.

2. Barely sophisticated. You're second to market and you have to grab attention from people who are making a direct claim. Solution: Copy the successful claim, but enlarge upon it. Drive it to the absolute limit. Outbid your competition. Weight loss example: "Lose up to 47 pounds in 4 weeks - or receive $40 back"

3. Moderately sophisticated. "Your prospects have now heard all the claims--all the extremes. Perhaps they have even bought one or two competitive products. Every time they open a newspaper, another similar headline screams out at them. How are they to distinguish one product from the mass? How do you break through to reach them?...The desire still exists, but it cannot be tapped by the old. simple methods any longer." Solution: "If your market is at the stage where they've heard all the claims, in all their extremes, then mere repetition or exaggeration won't work any longer. What this market needs now is a new device to make all these old claims become fresh and believable to them again. In other words, A NEW MECHANISM-- a new way to making the old promise work. A different process--a fresh chance--a brand-new possibility of success where only disappointment has resulted before." Weight loss examples: "Floats fat right out of your body" or "First wonder drug for losing weight."

4. Very sophisticated. "If a competitor has just introduced a new mechanism to achieve the same claim as that performed by your product, and that new mechanism announcement is producing sales, then you counter in this way. Simply elaborate or enlarge upon the successful mechanism. Make it easier, quicker, surer; allow it to solve more of the problem; overcome old limitations; promise extra benefits. You are beginning a stage of embellishment similar to the Second Stage of Sophistication described above. The same strategy will be effective here." Weight loss example: "First no-diet wonder drug for weight loss"

5. Advanced sophistication. "In this final stage of sophistication, your market no longer believes in your advertising, and therefore no longer wishes to be aware of your product. In many ways, therefore, this Fifth stage of sophistication corresponds to the Fifth stage of awareness discussed above. The problems are the same. The strategy is the same. The emphasis shifts from the promise and the mechanism which accomplishes it, to identification with the prospect himself. You are dealing here with the problem of bringing your prospect into your ad--not through desire--but through identification."

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Looking at this list, where would you place Olivier? I'm guessing stage 4 or 5. Does this prompt any ideas for how to approach the sales conversation?

 

[BizyDad]

The problem is you are asking him for permission to sell him something and he doesn't want to give you permission.

Your approach is wrong. You got to give him an interesting reason to meet with you.

Maybe set up an event to invite him to. Like a wine tasting...

Alternatively, tell him you are a student of the industry, and are trying to learn what it takes to be successful. You heard that he was a well-respected person in the industry, and you were wondering if he would be willing to help give you some advice.

Then ask your questions, but don't try and sell them anything. At the end of your interview, thank him for his incredible insight and wisdom, tell him he has helped you so much, ask him if it would be okay for you to follow up with him at a later date as you make progress in this industry.

Then follow up with him a month later because you're really excited that you have formed an agreement with two new wineries and based on your interview with him you thought they would be a good fit for him. Then ask for the meeting to sell him.

 

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