Houston we have a problem...

[LightHouse]

Yes and no, 80% of what i read here is wasted time (compared to 99% on other forums) but I still read and I get out the 20% of valuable content or relationships formed. Compare this to going to BnP which is 100% value, then networking through that.

The thing is most of the stuff on the forum is a real waste of time, that is no surprise. I feel like most people should be working on their paths vs posting nonsense here. There is always going to be a noise ratio. I would not pay to change that however, i guess it is hard for me to explain correctly.

If i really need to hammer things out, I'll call Billy, steve, bobby, jill, dana, kenric, etc etc etc. Those relationships, as well as the one i formed with you and other newer members is what i get from this forum. I do not need to pay for a section of the forum to achieve that. In return I attempt to respond to well thought out threads in the most non dick like fashion to provide value back to the community for what I have gained. No guarantee's on the way it sounds though!

To further this, relationships are instantly gratifying. I was wondering about something the other day and hit up Boris (what the F*ck is that guys screen name again?) and he helped me out. That took a lot less time and much more beneficial then trolling around or posting it here and going through tons of irrelevant info.

I think I have had similar interactions with many newer BnP'ers in the past few weeks.

 

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[Vigilante]

Not me, I thrive on new perspective as it relates to anything I am working on. So seeing new angles has huge advantages. That's how you see forward vs whats below your feet. But you are right, this isn't my forum, haha.

So what SOLUTIONS do you see? I don't see in MJ's OP that it was a discussion about a paid forum vs. not. It is better paraphrased as:

How do we maintain an information exchange where risks are mitigated but content is actionable?

Some of the suggestions here regarding credibility becoming a factor or a passkey into protected areas of the forum might be part of the solution. The INSIDERS group is great, and I think the $$ bring in people who are far more serious.

In life, you generally evaluate character before you decide to invest in someone in a personal way. Here, it's like the wild west.

I'm not a huge proponent of money being the predominant safeguard. I do however think that the forum has a tendency to weed out losers using speed points as one metric.

In lieu of MJ pulling the plug on the place completely, and knowing that we won't likely be able to change the character of every skallywag that walks in here :

My proposal is subforums with a litmus test for entry. I think there's enough traffic here to keep a wide open, wild west forum, and for those that are more serious maybe a combination of cash + speed could be required for entry. I think an expansion of the INSIDERS area into a sub forum is attractive, is efficient, is easily scaleable, and would become a better safe haven for the exchange of ideas amongst vetted participants.

So, the main board STAYS, and the INSIDERS area turns into a subforum, with an entrance fee and speed requirement. Existing fastlane INSIDERS subscribers would be grandfathered in regardless of speed at the time of implementation.

Do you guys know there has never been one negative-action-moderated post that I know of in the INSIDERS group?

 

[LibertyForMe]

Sounds like I need to hurry up and pay to become an INSIDERS before it goes on lock-down! You guys provide so much value, and I appreciate it. I hope that in the future, I can get to know you all much better and help out however I can.

 

[Amail]

What really gets me is neither of these guys thought what they were doing was wrong. On the contrary - they were fairly up front about what they were doing.

Both were younger guys, in their twenties I think. Is it a maturity thing? Will they eventually understand, or are they just damaged goods? How does someone get to that age and not realize copying someone's stuff for your own gain is wrong? Do they view business as war ("All's fair in love and war")? Whatever it takes, get ahead.

I really think the answer is a mix. They didn't realize the harm in what they were doing, but when called out on it their defenses kicked in and they got hard and tough. There's a couple of guys that do not learn from their mistakes.

 

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[cautiouscapy]

MJ,

Even with these recent incidents, there is no place like this on the web (and I am part of various communities).

Sums up why I joined...there is indeed no place like this on the web. I was thinking along that line earlier today, (before I read this thread and caught up on the other) that it's the only place I've found full of intelligent, open, supportive people with a certain business/money mindset and that's why I joined.

I live across the Atlantic Ocean and haven't been able to find anywhere online or face-to-face with the same feel, so I am SOOOO grateful that this forum exists.

I haven't even quite finished reading TMF yet, and I'm still in a slightly murky mental place about my way forward; but I paid to be an INSIDERS before I posted at all because I wanted to make a commitment to joining the community.

It was the open helpful discussions and advice all can read that showed me how valuable this community is. It's hard to see what could be done to protect against this sort of situation, perhaps a few more rules about what information can be posted outside the INSIDERS?

 

[Gsuz]

Part of what makes this site so great is the high amount of high quality members from all walks of life enforcing a NO B.S. policy towards those trying to undermine and steal from the community. I feel like this is something that must protected at all cost.

 

[AlexV]

It's sad to see things happen like this and it really pi..es me off big time. I usually beat the shit out of people that threat me like this..and no it is not metaphorical speaking. I hate being taken as a fool, and sometimes if your good to people you are seen a fool. I hope MJ won't close it, even if restricts access to it and puts higher selection criteria for the more valuable forum.
I'm one of the quite ones from this forum because I post only when I feel I create value. I read a lot of threads from the past because you can find solutions to most problems you encounter, different approaches which give you different choices and results. This forum gives you a mindset and it changes viewpoints. It would be a pity if it would be gone. I'm not an INSIDERS yet because I have hundreds of threads still to read here. Hope that they are not gone this weekend.
In my country there is a saying: 'There is no forest without dead wood', which shows exactly the situation here. Few guys can ruin the benefits of many.

 

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[healthstatus]

I just want to chime in here. There are people that steal at every level. Bernie Madoff was a known financial manager, but went the wrong way, ballplayers juice, Lance Armstrong doped, there are illegal drugs in prisons. As long as there are lines to cross, they will be eventually crossed. It doesn't matter what obstacles or requirements you put out there.

The only tweak I would make is the requirement for a certain "speed" before being eligible to be an INSIDERS, doesn't have to be as much as the speedway, but the visitor must show some positive contributions.

 

[phenom4hire]

Sucks to see this kind of stuff happen. There are always d-bags to ruin things for others. Either way, MJ thanks for the community that you have provided. Big thanks to all you folks who took it upon themselves to give back and help others succeed. Continued success to all of you and regardless of what happens this forum has been an inspiration. Biophase, I hope to be making some purchases before the next season starts, so hopefully you will get some increased business from all the time you have given to this forum.

 

[GPM]

But...I think I've mentioned before somewhere (in the discussions about the INSIDERS section) that - I think this issue could be resolved by having a higher barrier of entry to the INSIDERS's section.

I second this. The advice that I have gotten here has been life changing. There are a few members here who do so much to help others out, it in turn makes me want to help as many people as I can with what I am learning.

When I see “INSIDERS” who signed up 6 months ago who only have like 5-10 posts it kind of freaks me out. I understand that MJ is getting paid by all of this, but I don’t like the idea of people who just take from this forum with no intention of ever giving back. I try to bounce ideas off of some friends who I think would be interested, but it has all been negative! No one cares about advancing their life. I come here and post questions and within hours I have many people trying to help me out! At this stage I NEED this, it is hard enough to keep going as it is, this place is life changing.

MJ, when I first read your post and you said that someone made “The Billionaire Fast Lane” I just about chocked to death! That has been a joke in a few other threads and if someone actually did that would be absolute insanity! Glad you threw that disclaimer in there.

 

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[FastNAwesome]

MJ, I had this happen to me too, so I can totally understand.

this is a great example on how the idiots that make-up 1% of the world ruin it for the responsible 99%

So true, but not always. In this case...only if you let them. This place is UNLIKE ANYTHING else. All I see are replies of people who would love to pay and would love to stay.

It goes for me too, as long as I'm welcome here and can afford it.

It's not just about content, this is an amazing network and amazing community.

I'm sorry that I'm still more on the taker side, as currently stuff I'm good at are programming and dating, such advice I gladly give. But I try to balance that by not asking too much questions either.

(maybe) offtopic - things that make my experience more pleasant:

-> When someone with like 30+ posts but still parked asks yet another question, I ignore it, I don't care.
-> When someone obviously trolls, I block them right away. Because in some other thread they might seem serious and waste my time.

 

[Jason K]

I wonder if this stage is merely what forums experience as they go through their life cycle.

First we have the new stage, where the forum is unknown to the world and is filled with INSIDERS who share the core beliefs.

Then we have the growth stage, still filled with lots of enthusiasm, and people join but it's the right people: those who also share those core beliefs. They're attracted to it.

Third we have the mature stage, where this forum seems to be now. All kinds of people are finding out about it, including those who want a free lunch or just to advertise. The Givers become badly outnumbered by the Takers.

I know an NLP copywriter who requires you to go through an exercise and tell him the results before he lets you into his website. The cost is low, maybe you have to hand out a few $1 bills or lottery tickets a certain way, and then email him about the experience. That way, he only admits people who believe in the Golden Rule.

 

[Steve37]

Very unfortunate situation from all angles, but someone always finds a way to violate the honor system. It’s sobering to think that if you torpedo this forum there will likely be millions ( tens of millions? ) of dollars in opportunities lost from entrepreneurs who were never able to learn from and establish relationships with some of the generous veterans here. Why someone would willingly piss in that well of knowledge is hard to understand, but clearly it happens and something should be implemented to prevent it.

As someone who has been mostly lurking, learning, and starting to execute it stands to reason that when things change I will be on the outside looking in. Based on the value of the INSIDERS subscription alone I can only hope that the option to remain will be available, even at many multiples of the current annual price or via some other avenue.

 

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[CommonCents]

I'd also agree an invite after X amount of posts would work well to weed out the lazy cheaters.

While it is true that two complete strangers can arrive at the nearly exact same spot as for as products and ideas but as far as youngsters "not knowing" but continuing to offer same exact products as their own mentors or others here after receiving disclosure is total BS.

A good swift firm kick between the uprights in these situations gives instant feedback and does wonders for maturity.

 

[Yussef]

So several months ago I was approached by a guy who wanted to be mentored in the business of self-publishing. He wanted to write his own book and create his own "Fastlane" via authorship. So I agreed as this guy seemed pretty cool.

Over the course of the next few months, I told this guy all the ins-and-outs of the self-publishing business and how it is different from print-on-demand (CreateSpace, Lulu, iUnverse,etc.) and how it is also different from getting signed from a publishing house, which is the old school way.

I told this guy my "secrets" for creating a great little publishing business, from merchant accounts, to store creation, to distribution channel secrets that took me years to learn.

I even told this guy who my trusted printer was so he could get the great pricing on his book, and done in a quality fashion. All of this allowed him to create the backbone for a nice business which will give him the chance to maximize his margins, and yes, possibly create him his Fastlane.

So after months of mentorship this guy disappears.

When he finally resurfaces, he tells me that he's finally finished his book and he wants to get feedback from me.

He sends me a link to the Amazon listing.

It's a book about finance and entrepreneurship.

It's title?

The Billionaire Fastlane.




Now after this discovery, I'm livid.

And you should be too.

If you're not incensed at this type of betrayal, please do me a favor and LEAVE THIS FORUM AND NEVER RETURN.

We don't want you here.

The Fastlane Forum isn't just about business and entrepreneurship, its also about MORALS, ETHICS and INTEGRITY.

Apparently some people have taken the liberty with the phrase that "Ideas are worthless, but execution is everything."

Yes, that's true -- but it doesn't give you a license to COPY someone else's ideas, someone else's work, someone else's niche, and someone else's secrets and use that help AGAINST THEM, to their detriment.

Get this in your F*ckING HEAD: The advice that is given on this forum from our most prized contributors is given with the assumption that you will use it in your own NEW venture, started 100% from scratch, and NOT in direct competition of the person who gave you that advice.

Visiting the contributor's website and COPYING his images and text is BULLSHIT.
Using your "mentor's" advice to directly compete with your "mentor" is BULLSHIT.
Calling your "mentor's" suppliers and buying shit that your mentor sells, is BULLSHIT.

While my above story with respect to self-publishing isn't true, its happened on multiple occasions, the most recent HERE, where someone thought it was OK to take advice from a forum member to the detriment of his own business.

And on another occasion, one user thought it was OK to literally copy a site with the same structure and images, and play it off as his own. This guy was so F*cking lazy that he didn't even bother to change the links to the stolen site. If you clicked the "Talk to me" button, it linked to the stolen website.

If you think this type of behavior is OK, get F*cking lost. While these actions might not be illegal, its a gross violation of ethics, integrity, and of the Fastlane code. It doesn't make you a "Fastlaner", it makes you a F*cking lazy poser and a F*cking money chasing Sidewalker.

And to make matters worse, these people, when called-out, justify their actions.

"I have two kids to take care of"

Cry me a F*cking river you whiny bastard.

I'm not sure what pisses me off more, the fact that you think its OK to steal text, graphics, and someone's niche, or the fact that you have TWO KIDS who will surely be taught the same piss-poor morals and integrity that you have.

This behavior has already had serious repercussions here at the Forum.

Vigilante's great educative thread "Passive Income Deposits" which boasts over 60,000 views and has birthed many new ventures, has been removed from the public forum and placed on the INSIDE.

Other great threads of value are sure to follow.

Some of our most valued contributors, NO LONGER want to contribute, at least publicly where the TAKERS (and thieves) outnumber the GIVERS.

So with that said, and as the title states, HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

As for the solution, I'm not quite sure what that is yet ... and I'm sure whatever it is, people won't like it. I've already lofted the idea of shutting this place down. My time is valuable as are the people who make efforts to contribute here. As with life and in society in general, this is a great example on how the idiots that make-up 1% of the world ruin it for the responsible 99%.

When the "quality threads" start to disappear (either deleted or moved to the inside) don't blame me, blame the lazy savages who troll these forums looking to steal other people's hard work.

Oh MJ said ideas are worthless! Why does it matter?
I have two kids!
I haven't sold any copies of The Billionaire Fastlane yet, why care?

Enjoy the forum while you have it as it's future existence and operational style is now considered undetermined.

To end this, let me apologize for the vile language. This topic is very sensitive to me and boils my passions.
I've had these kinds of thefts happen to me on several occasions -- my anger isn't the idea of facing a new competitor, its the idea that someone stole my own hard work and ingenuity and used it against me. Then gas is thrown onto the rage when the person justifies their actions with some lame a$$ excuse or proverb.

I'd rather have a small forum of 1000 great individuals, rather than a large forum teeming with thieves.

Thanks for reading.

OMFG... Reading this made me want to open up a can of good ole fashioned whoop a$$. But unfortunately it's to be expected. To MJ and all affected by this clown-like behavior please please please don't dim your light .

You can hand a clown the keys to the castle, but that won't make him a F*cking king.

Wear your crowns proudly. If they knew better they would do better. Just because they stole the recipe doesn't mean the end result will be a cake.

MJ you know this is just human nature. I bet when the first caveman discovered fire there was some retarded cave-clown burning down hundreds of acres with a stolen flame.

I say lets turn it up. Lets make those that act with malice feel the coldness of being on the outside. Lets not allow them to be significant in something this huge. It's great to believe in the goodness of mankind but it doesn't hurt to know a little history either.

I can't speak for anyone else but I know I am here because I needed to be here. It was my time to find this forum. All of my sacrifices, mistakes, tears and glory have a home here. This site has challenged me, pissed me off, made me laugh, and taught me how to embrace people and ideas that I don't always agree with; but I respect because I know where it comes from. The heart.

I said it before and I will say it again SUCCESS IS THE SWEETEST REVENGE- LES BROWN

I Love Haters.

Fastlane Forever

 

[theag]

Jeez, I don't check in here for some time and all kinds of shit start hitting all kinds of fans.

 

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[Twiki]

It really does seem like some people have a mental deficit of some sort that leaves them incapable of understanding RIGHT vs. WRONG. Like there's actually some part of their brain that is stunted or just missing. It's hopeless to try to explain such concepts to these folks, because the parts of their brain that run the "excuse-making" and "self-justifying" processes seem to work A-OK full steam ahead.

You know what's really fun is when you help someone get started in a field, then later you find out they've been using your client testimonials claiming them as their own! Now that is truly disturbing... mind-blowing isn't it??

 

[Vigilante]

Very unfortunate situation from all angles, but someone always finds a way to violate the honor system. It’s sobering to think that if you torpedo this forum there will likely be millions ( tens of millions? ) of dollars in opportunities lost from entrepreneurs who were never able to learn from and establish relationships with some of the generous veterans here. Why someone would willingly piss in that well of knowledge is hard to understand, but clearly it happens and something should be implemented to prevent it.

As someone who has been mostly lurking, learning, and starting to execute it stands to reason that when things change I will be on the outside looking in. Based on the value of the INSIDERS subscription alone I can only hope that the option to remain will be available, even at many multiples of the current annual price or via some other avenue.

Easy answer to that (with some encouragement). Start adding value! You don't have to be a pro to contribute. Contribute. Regardless of the outcome of this discussion. Contribute. You have value to add to the forum.

 

[andviv]

Was it really that hard to augment the pie, and make it more interesting, offering help, provide more venues for your mentor to make more money?

Example...

"Hey, biophase, you have given me amazing value and I have learned a lot. What do you think of me opening a store in your same niche and I will try my best to sell your products, and you can drop-ship for my stores while I am learning?"

It was simple. Logical.

Now, biophase may have said "No, thanks, find your own niche" and he may have even helped him to identify and validate a niche or two. Or he may have said "Gee, would you help me make more sales and at the same time keep learning? Awesome!"

 

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[LightHouse]

So what SOLUTIONS do you see?

As far as a higher quality area, i agree on the pay + invite. It works on other forums I have seen, rep speed may work, but you have bad apples with high rep speed as well.

As far as the rest of the forum, Do nothing, keep the information exchange wide open. These guys aren't the minority, there are tons of people that have trolled and copied business', these guys were just so dumb they posted about it on the forum. I wouldn't share anything that's sensitive data, and Kenric didn't either. This guy will never take even a slice of Kenrics business, but it will make Kenric less likely to help random people in the future.

 

[andviv]

it will make Kenric less likely to help random people in the future.

It's good for me I am not random. Weird maybe, but not random.

 

[Pete799p]

I want to start out by saying that this is by far the greatest place on the internet and I hate to see people ruining it. This has personally happened to me too many times and it really makes you not want to help out anymore. This is what really pisses me off because it ruins it for the honest hardworking folks that need the help. I want to extend a great amount of gratitude and appreciation to everybody here who has provided an invaluable level of motivation and knowledge.

That being said I agree with having a forum subsection that is invitation only. Senior members or MJ etc would have to approve the entrance of a new member. This would allow the forum to remain open to growth and free info but the members of the "super fastlane" section could feel safe that their info that could potentially harm their business etc would be protected from the undeserving.

 

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[The-J]

I don't think this will hurt the community at all. Why? Because we've got awesome mods ready to stamp out any cockroaches that try to fool anyone who offers to help.

This kind of stuff sucks but it happens everywhere. People will be people. People can convince themselves of anything and believe it's right.

I trust our moderators. And because of that, I trust that our moderators will have zero tolerance for this kind of bullcrap, as they have been (although, MJ, that stolpioni guy had to actually INSULT you for you to ban him haha)

 

[Likwid24]

:smxE:

 

[Barry]

WOW, Just moments ago I was pissed off at crap that wasn't even relevant and came here to cool off because this is like my home away from home, No one I come into contact with (except for the very few rich folks I know) really gets it and this is the only place a number of us have real people who really gets it and can have INTERESTED LIKE MINDED people engage in business conversations and bounce ideas off of. It would REALLLY suck if this forum disappears. I still have a ton of you guys profiles bookmarked so I can read all your posts been going through them really slow and printing out and writing out main points and crucial info's, I just might have to speed up the process :sigh: The best way I think to resolve this is to have INSIDERS VOTE you in while having you pay the same small fee.

People would do better If they knew better

Barry

 

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[Bruce]

It'd truly be sad to see the forum end, but I believe we'd all understand why.

But it still sucks to see how great things get ruined by the ungrateful.

 

[ChickenHawk]

The Billionaire Fastlane -- what a perfect analogy for a crappy situation. Sometimes, people just suck -- meaning anyone who would take advantage of the help and advice being offered here, and not treat it with the care, respect, and yes, loyalty it deserves. But I sometimes fear that this is becoming more common as people look for shortcuts at any cost, because (insert excuse du jour here.)

I'd hate to see the forum go away, but I definitely see why the veterans might hesitate to share their wisdom if it's repaid in such a crappy manner.

 

[Twiki]

Well I can understand the bitterness of the great minds here who I've learned so much from and it'd be a real shame to lose this resource.

Maybe the words of another great mind, from a long long time ago, can help bring balance to the force:

When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. They are like this because they can't tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil, and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own - not of the same blood and birth, but the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me. No one can implicate me in ugliness. Nor can I feel angry at my relative, or hate him. We were born to work together like feet, hands and eyes, like the two rows of teeth, upper and lower. To obstruct each other is unnatural. To feel anger at someone, to turn your back on him: these are unnatural. ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Or, as a friend of Marcus Aurelius once said, "What we do in life, echoes in eternity!"

 

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[hotshot]

When I see “INSIDERS” who signed up 6 months ago who only have like 5-10 posts it kind of freaks me out. I understand that MJ is getting paid by all of this, but I don’t like the idea of people who just take from this forum with no intention of ever giving back.

Hmm.. guilty as charged. I am this guy. My goal was to get some sort of fastlane plan going before becoming active here, because we've all seen the action fakers who try to validate idea after idea but never get anywhere. As a result I'm suffering from analysis paralysis, and never really gain any traction on anything. Not to mention my environment is not ideal. I'm taking action to change that within the next week though. I'll write a blog post about that, it's the least I can do.

It really blows that one person can ruin it for the rest of us. This community, although you guys don't really have a clue who I am, has seriously changed my life for the better. I've learned so much from people like Biophase, Snowbank, Vigilante, Renum, zen*******, Being Chewsie... I can't thank you guys enough.

I would understand if MJ chooses to close down the forum. But I'd much rather we vote the INSIDERS in, along with a paid subscription. Even though that would most likely disqualify me from the INSIDERS section.. that would surely light a fire under my a$$ so to speak...

 

[socaldude]

These dirt bags violate the number one law of the Universe: for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.

What do you notice about anyone who is successful? They love GIVING VALUE. Whether its in the form of a product or service or in the form of ADVICE OR MENTORING. And what happens when you give? Thats right all of a sudden you attract money, you attract people, you attract sales etc. You put electrons and protons together into harmony.

What do you notice about anyone who is an epic fail? They love TAKING VALUE. They are a cancerous, parasitic piece of shit to the universe sucking everything up. Stealing, lying, manipulating, money chasing etc. The inevitable result is failed relationships, failed businesses, failed life etc. You repel the entire Universe by trying to F*cken scam it. You slam electrons into electrons polarizing repelling each other like water and oil.

You see when you breathe air in to take in oxygen from the external air you didn't get that for nothing. You exhaled carbon dioxide first. You gave something. You gave value. This is a paramount law of nature that has universal governance.

Seriously what kind of bastard screws someone who took their TIME to respond to emails and share VALUABLE KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE that took years to learn and obtain. Seriously this is like someone giving them a glass of lemonade on a hot day and then them turning around and throwing Hydrofluoric Acid in their face.