Having Children...Pros and Cons?

[MTF]

What is “freedom”? You sound like you are “selfish” but I think you aren’t selfish enough. I’m more selfish! I have a kid and the joy I experience daily can’t compare to some travel. I’m not worried about missing out on some little phantom pleasure like visiting another country. It’s a fleeting moment. Deep and lasting joy - that’s what I get. The grin on my face from my own kid… it’s so big it hurts.

Comparing your time with nieces and nephews is also wrong. Not your kiddo. Doesn’t give you same love back. You are a nobody there.

But, the good thing is this. If you are struggling with finding room for a kid in your life … it’s probably a good thing you don’t have one. You’d hate it. When it takes time away from something you want to do, you’d blame the kid and not your lack of strength and creativity. Like people who don’t realize you can get fitter with kids because kids are heavy. It’s nature’s way, isn’t it?

I'm glad to hear you love being a parent. I love NOT being a parent.

As long as we don't force our opinions on each other, all is good in the world.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

Hi, I'm 19 and I'm way too young to give an answer. But I thought this is a very interesting thread that makes me want to ask,

How old do you guys think is too old for a man to have children?

There is no limit.

My grandfather told me a story of an old man he worked for in the 1960’s named Mako (like the shark). He was in his 90’s and he just had a kid with his third wife. She was far younger than him. Mako owned a small oil operation and was still working with his hands when he died. My grandpa admired his machismo... lol

To add to the story, the kid was his sixth. He named him "Six."

 

[Antifragile]

As long as we don't force our opinions on each other, all is good in the world.

100% in agreement. No forcing anything on anyone. But feel free to share any opinion you may have.

 

[Danny_Cox]

My wife and I (27 & 35 y/o) are often told we'd make good parents, but the only way we can imagine being happy to go ahead is if one or both of us can take on the role full time.

Schools are, largely, a dumpster fire. The idea of bringing a child into the world, only to put it through school, seems cruel and stupid. The education on offer in public systems is woefully out of touch with what a human being actually needs in 2022.

So, we'd want to educate our child/ren ourselves, and not have that be a stress on our own relationship or our finances. If I can figure out a Fastlane within the next 7 years, hopefully my wife will still be good to go. If not, well, we love dogs

 

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[Black_Mamba_427]

My wife and I (27 & 35 y/o) are often told we'd make good parents, but the only way we can imagine being happy to go ahead is if one or both of us can take on the role full time.

Schools are, largely, a dumpster fire. The idea of bringing a child into the world, only to put it through school, seems cruel and stupid. The education on offer in public systems is woefully out of touch with what a human being actually needs in 2022.

So, we'd want to educate our child/ren ourselves, and not have that be a stress on our own relationship or our finances. If I can figure out a Fastlane within the next 7 years, hopefully my wife will still be good to go. If not, well, we love dogs

I agree with you that the education system is out dated (even private schools from what I've seen) unless you want to go down the STEM route, but I would argue that the social learning (how to interact with other kids from other backgrounds) is something that just couldn't get taught from home school.

The home schooled kids I've met (which is rare) are really odd and always come across autistic and unable to interact socially.

 

[Roli]

Hi Fastlaners

My wife and I are trying to decide if to have children. She's 28 and I'm 26, so her remaining children bearing years are limited.

On one hand, we have a vision of a beautiful family and family culture etc. On the other hand, friends are warning that we'd be giving up our lives to take care of another human etc. We already know all this, but...

If you can:

• Share advice/things we should consider
• Share stories about your experiences, the good and bad, the pains and pleasure
• Regrets of having or not having
• If you don't have, do you feel a void? How do you fill it? Is it sufficient?

Please, no condescending responses, or 'you shouldn't have if you're asking this' sort of responses. I'm asking because there's immense value and learning in other perspectives.

Thanks!
Jon.

What happened? Did you have children?

 

[Roli]

My wife and I (27 & 35 y/o) are often told we'd make good parents, but the only way we can imagine being happy to go ahead is if one or both of us can take on the role full time.

Schools are, largely, a dumpster fire. The idea of bringing a child into the world, only to put it through school, seems cruel and stupid. The education on offer in public systems is woefully out of touch with what a human being actually needs in 2022.

So, we'd want to educate our child/ren ourselves, and not have that be a stress on our own relationship or our finances. If I can figure out a Fastlane within the next 7 years, hopefully my wife will still be good to go. If not, well, we love dogs

The reality of having a child is way different to the ideal. That whole "educate yourself" thing is so much harder than you think and you'll start to appreciate schools when you try.

Also there is the social aspect, school is important because it teaches you how to form relationships, deal with conflict, work with others and bond.

The more you think about having a child, the less you are likely to actually do it. My advice, just jump in, stop using contraception, don't think about it.

Dogs are great, but they can't speak English and have a limited set of interests!

 

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[Danny_Cox]

I agree with you that the education system is out dated (even private schools from what I've seen) unless you want to go down the STEM route, but I would argue that the social learning (how to interact with other kids from other backgrounds) is something that just couldn't get taught from home school.

The home schooled kids I've met (which is rare) are really odd and always come across autistic and unable to interact socially.

The reality of having a child is way different to the ideal. That whole "educate yourself" thing is so much harder than you think and you'll start to appreciate schools when you try.

Also there is the social aspect, school is important because it teaches you how to form relationships, deal with conflict, work with others and bond.

The more you think about having a child, the less you are likely to actually do it. My advice, just jump in, stop using contraception, don't think about it.

Dogs are great, but they can't speak English and have a limited set of interests!

Granted, I’ve not done any genuine research because we’re nowhere near actually considering having a kid. Just my current perceptions based on 20 years of interacting with families as a music teacher (and visiting schools).

Most parents I know are exhausted. How am I going to meet my Fastlane goals on no sleep? Neither my wife nor I are broody in the slightest right now so it’s entirely a logical decision. (Counter-argument: dependents act as leverage on the necessity to earn money.)

The notion of not giving thought to taking on the biggest responsibility available in the human experience seems bonkers to me.

 

[ProcessPro]

What happened? Did you have children?

Something must be wrong with the forum software...NO WAY I posted this in 2020....

OMG...

No we haven't. I haven't gotten around to sitting down and listing my assumptions and addressing them. Once I do, we'll decide whether our relationship has run its course or not. I really need to do this soon.

 

[Vinnland]

there's immense value and learning in other perspectives

We just had a little girl. She is 8 months old. I knew that I always wanted to have a child though.

What I will say is this:

• Other people's perspectives are NOT worth learning because, in reality, it will be you, your wife and the kid day to day. Nobodies' perspectives will matter at that point.
• Kids are a distraction if you do not want them. It's okay to not want kids before you have them. After, well, that's a different story.
• I work from home, I have a home office. The sweetest sound is when I hear my kid smashing her spoon next door and laughing <3
• It's a somewhat permanent decision. 99% sure is not sure enough.

 

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[Antifragile]

Most parents I know are exhausted. How am I going to meet my Fastlane goals on no sleep?

With that kind of thinking, I’m not sure you’ll ever go Fastlane. Hate to be the one to tell you this… but becoming an entrepreneur isn’t easy. You can expect to be exhausted from starting and running a business! And kids or no kids, success in going fastlane is first about mindset. Do you have what it takes?

If I can figure out a Fastlane within the next 7 years, hopefully my wife will still be good to go.

Here is an excellent perspective:

Having kids and pursuing your dreams aren't mutually exclusive. If kids + a business is your dream, then that's worth pursuing and figuring it out. The question isn't "are children the right choice?", it's "do I want children?"

While a family is a "consumption accelerator", they are also a "motivation accelerator" too. Once that kid is placed in your arms for the first time, you realize that you're now working for something far greater than yourself.

We often hear how kids and a family hamper progress but we somehow filter out all the highly successful people who say their kids were a driver for their success.

Statistically speaking, a vast majority of billionaires have a spouse and kids. If they can make it work, so can you. Do you want to?

 

[Antifragile]

This...

It is a choice...

Why do we do what we do? We are individuals, shaping our lives in the way WE want to. There is no cookie cutter life that we should all subscribe to.

Suggesting kids aren't worth for entrepreneurs it is prescribing a form of script.

Suggesting kids are a must is prescribing a form of script.

I myself want a big family. Since it is something I want, why would I sacrifice it on the alter of business? I am an entrepreneur so I can improve my life. I am improving my condition. Why sacrifice something else that would give me joy? How unscripted is it to forgo something that you want to do in life to avoid the responsibility?

If you want kids, do it. I truly believe responsibility is the foundation of greatness.

If you don't want kids, don't.

Exactly right @Kak

If you don’t want kids - good, don’t.
If you want kids - stop looking for excuses like “I can’t be an entrepreneur because kids take time”. Why do so many ppl see them as mutually exclusive when in fact they are complimentary? Family can be a big “why” for going 10x on your business etc.

The most badass thing you can do in life is take responsibility.

 

[Arithen]

Hi Fastlaners

My wife and I are trying to decide if to have children. She's 28 and I'm 26, so her remaining children bearing years are limited.

On one hand, we have a vision of a beautiful family and family culture etc. On the other hand, friends are warning that we'd be giving up our lives to take care of another human etc. We already know all this, but...

If you can:

• Share advice/things we should consider
• Share stories about your experiences, the good and bad, the pains and pleasure
• Regrets of having or not having
• If you don't have, do you feel a void? How do you fill it? Is it sufficient?

Please, no condescending responses, or 'you shouldn't have if you're asking this' sort of responses. I'm asking because there's immense value and learning in other perspectives.

Thanks!
Jon.

My wife and I (both 33) will never have kids (made it official around your age when I got "fixed").

I haven't read any other posts in this thread, however, I'm willing to bet that the majority of the posts will say something along the lines of "my kids are the best thing to ever happen to me, my life is so much more fulfilling now," and coming up around 30% (which would be high, but that's due to the nature of people this forum attracts) of the rest of the posts are about the math and lack of freedom arguments.

The reason behind both of these arguments usually stems from biology. Simply put, some people have a greater sense of self-interest in regards to not having children (nothing wrong with that) and most people have a greater sense of raising a family. We are tuned to breed after all, and there are certain neurochemical releases that the majority of humankind experience even when they're in the vicinity of a baby.

If either your wife or you have even a shred of desire to have a child, do it. You would be the one who falls into the latter category. The one who will feel that fulfillment of having a kid, even if you don't necessarily feel that strong right now.

If self-interest is so high on your list that you would feel chained down by a child, don't have a kid. Most people will probably still enjoy parenthood if they fall under this category, but there will also be a lot of "I wonder how things could have turned out," type thoughts, which can be distressful to some.

And then there's a third category, which my wife and I fall under. We feel so strongly against having kids or being around kids, or anything of the sort, that it is actually difficult being around kids simply because we want to avoid being around them at all costs. For whatever reason, we are just built in a way that we have an extreme aversion to children and families. This is Maternal instinct in the negative.

If you fall under this category, never, EVER, have kids.

That all being said, virtually everyone you meet will pressure you into having kids to some extent, because they can't fathom not having that biological drive. The majority are respectful about it (depending on where you live), but there will usually be some sort of under-breath response like "you'll want them when you're older" or something along those lines.

The key here is to know yourself, block out all the noise from everyone's opinions, and really take a hard look at your own psychology, desires, and needs.

EDIT: I just realized how old this thread was... So, what was the decision?

 

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[Kak]

I think there are a lot of people showing up to this thread wondering what the unscripted answer is. Is being a parent part of the script? Should I avoid having kids to be unscripted ?

By asking this question, you are asking someone else to write you a script. This question is your’s to answer. Seeking advice of others on this just scriptifies yourself.

You are not subject to other people. Entrepreneurs need to be comfortable making decisions without advisory.

You are the final say. If you aren’t taking that role, you need to or find a different career path.

 

[Roli]

Granted, I’ve not done any genuine research because we’re nowhere near actually considering having a kid. Just my current perceptions based on 20 years of interacting with families as a music teacher (and visiting schools).

Most parents I know are exhausted. How am I going to meet my Fastlane goals on no sleep? Neither my wife nor I are broody in the slightest right now so it’s entirely a logical decision. (Counter-argument: dependents act as leverage on the necessity to earn money.)

The notion of not giving thought to taking on the biggest responsibility available in the human experience seems bonkers to me.

Fair enough, you've worked in schools so you have a better angle on it than most people without kids. It's just that I know a couple of adults who were home schooled and they still to this day, regret missing out on a "normal" education. They craved school and you can see the look of not quite sadness, but longing when we're sitting around talking about school days, old crushes, bullies, class clowns, teachers, they missed all of that and they're sad their parents took that route.

Yes lack of sleep is a factor as a parent, although my wife and I negated that by just letting the baby sleep with my wife for 7 months, whilst I stayed on the sofabed. Baby slept about 6 hours a night waking only to quietly suckle on a readily available breast, plenty good enough.

It does seem bonkers not "thinking" about it and obviously there are things to think about. However if I had intellectualised having a child, right now I'd be 50 years old, childless and probably regretting not just taking the plunge.

Like you said, neither of you are broody at the mo, but trust me, when a woman's broody and she has a healthy sperm giving male as a partner, there's little you can do to resist!

My advice, when the time comes, just go with the flow and don't take anything to personally!

Anyway, I hope when you do we're both still members of this forum and you write about it. Because I'm genuinely interested in all of that

 

[Danny_Cox]

Fair enough, you've worked in schools so you have a better angle on it than most people without kids. It's just that I know a couple of adults who were home schooled and they still to this day, regret missing out on a "normal" education. They craved school and you can see the look of not quite sadness, but longing when we're sitting around talking about school days, old crushes, bullies, class clowns, teachers, they missed all of that and they're sad their parents took that route.

Yes lack of sleep is a factor as a parent, although my wife and I negated that by just letting the baby sleep with my wife for 7 months, whilst I stayed on the sofabed. Baby slept about 6 hours a night waking only to quietly suckle on a readily available breast, plenty good enough.

It does seem bonkers not "thinking" about it and obviously there are things to think about. However if I had intellectualised having a child, right now I'd be 50 years old, childless and probably regretting not just taking the plunge.

Like you said, neither of you are broody at the mo, but trust me, when a woman's broody and she has a healthy sperm giving male as a partner, there's little you can do to resist!

My advice, when the time comes, just go with the flow and don't take anything to personally!

Anyway, I hope when you do we're both still members of this forum and you write about it. Because I'm genuinely interested in all of that

Great points. Interesting to have fallen into a conversation around this since it's typically so far off my radar and yet I take "to father or not father" to be one of the biggest decisions of my life.

Re: kids regretting not going to school, well, there's always an opportunity to regret, hey? Though I could definitely see me sending my kid to school if they really wanted to experience, with the option for them to come back into homeschooling if they prefer. I really like the notion that kids are "beings, not becomings," and will do better when given maximum agency in the context of firm and sensible boundaries.

As for the social aspects of homeschooling, well, if parenting were my full-time gig I'd absolutely be creating a diverse social diary for my kid.

LOVE what you did putting the baby with Mum at night. Whenever this kind of thing comes up the wife & I are right behind it. The baby doesn't know—nor care—that civilisation has advanced. It wants to be with Mum 100% of the time, and it's easier for everyone involved! Total no-brainer to us. Big round of applause

I hear you re intellectualising. I think this stage of my life is all about establishing sovereignty. Once that's taken care of, I can imagine having totally different perspectives on a lot of things. Lots of good reasons to stick around here so let's add this conversation to the pile

 

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[Antifragile]

know a couple of adults who were home schooled and they still to this day, regret missing out on a "normal" education. They craved school and you can see the look of not quite sadness, but longing when we're sitting around talking about school days, old crushes, bullies, class clowns, teachers, they missed all of that and they're sad their parents took that route.

The discussion on home schooling vs public schools vs private is a difficult one. There is no one right answer. Recently a few of us "regulars" on this forum got into this debate in the Random thread.

I am closer to you in my own opinion. We all want what is absolutely best for our kids. Entrepreneurs are inventors, somewhat rebellious (being 1% means not behaving like the 99%). And our opinions are strong, we feel we are always right etc. I fall into this category... I want my kid to have resilience, grit, inner strength. With that, brainwashing my kiddo by some idiot at school would be harder. For us that means a private school path... That does not remove ANY responsibility from me as a dad to raise my child. It is 100% my responsibility. I am just leaning into what is available for social development, as you posted above.

That said, some of the things I see recently are truly disturbing. Kids who went to private schools with no drive and depression, drug problems. The life of a wealthy family is fraught with difficulties too, because you can absolutely screw up your kid with too much. Also, woke stuff bothers me. I may be complete idiot when it comes to understanding the mental health challenges kids face these days. I was born white, male, good looking, smart - the genetic lottery winner. It's harder for me to understand racism as a black kid would have in the 80s, 90s or even today. I know none of that. And similarly, being gay was hard enough when I was growing up (most would not come out openly) but today I don't understand the "non-binary" and everyone on LInkedIn posting "he/she/they" pronouns. It's not that I am against any of that, I don't oppose whatever people choose to do in their own lives. It's that I don't want my kiddo learning from some underpaid teacher about something that even as a grown successful entrepreneur adult - I can't fully grasp. I don't want someone's agenda to influence my kid. In that respect, I agree with @Kak for homeschooling argument. Yet, I am not doing that... I seek a better place where other people like me send their kids. Because I worry that I (for all my smarts) may be not enough. Like your posts suggests - it's important to deal with bullies etc. It's part of growth.

And this is where it gets interesting to me to see posts (as some are open about it but most will think it but won't share fearful of being judged). Being "Fastlane" is doing what you want. It's being free. Trying to just define it as money in the bank isn't likely to yield anyone true financial success. That's because in life, there is asymmetry. It's not about the number of hours you work on your business - it is about how much value you add to someone else. You may only work 3 hrs a day and make 10x of your next door neighbour who sent their kids to public school. Meaning, you can do both.

@Danny_Cox stick around. This forum may open your mind.

 

[Kak]

Because I worry that I (for all my smarts) may be not enough.

But you are. You are one of the most intelligent people I know.

You + Your Wife + A Good Cirriculum That YOU Choose + Some Kind of Sport or Other Social Activity

That formula will far exceed, in less amount of time, with less emotional F*ckery, anything a public or private school will teach your kid.

The question is do you want smarter kids? Because homeschool is the winner by a LOT in that regard.

Or, do you want silver spoon connections at the expense of learning. <This used to be me, but I’ve come around.

Don't give your kids the following out of your own insecurity.

 

[Danny_Cox]

@Danny_Cox stick around. This forum may open your mind.

I've yet to close the tab since joining up.

 

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[DayIFly]

I think there are a lot of people showing up to this thread wondering what the unscripted answer is. Is being a parent part of the script? Should I avoid having kids to be unscripted ?

By asking this question, you are asking someone else to write you a script. This question is your’s to answer. Seeking advice of others on this just scriptifies yourself.

You are not subject to other people. Entrepreneurs need to be comfortable making decisions without advisory.

You are the final say. If you aren’t taking that role, you need to or find a different career path.

Underrated post. Meta-cognition at its best.

 

[Oso]

"Should I have kids" isn't the question to ask, imo.

"Should I have kids with this person" is what needs to be asked. A child will always come with obligation that can be planned for. The wrong partner will make your life a living hell, thus making raising your children exponentially harder.

I love my daughter to death. But I'd be lying if I said I don't regret having a child with the woman I had one with.

 

[EvanOkanagan]

"Should I have kids" isn't the question to ask, imo.

"Should I have kids with this person" is what needs to be asked. A child will always come with obligation that can be planned for. The wrong partner will make your life a living hell, thus making raising your children exponentially harder.

I love my daughter to death. But I'd be lying if I said I don't regret having a child with the woman I had one with.

Agree.

From an investment standpoint, the wrong partner is the worst investment you can make. Learned the hard way and cost me about $2m pre-tax money, plus a major blow to my cash flow for the next 5-15 years.

 

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[Anon05554]

"Should I have kids" isn't the question to ask, imo.

"Should I have kids with this person" is what needs to be asked. A child will always come with obligation that can be planned for. The wrong partner will make your life a living hell, thus making raising your children exponentially harder.

I love my daughter to death. But I'd be lying if I said I don't regret having a child with the woman I had one with.

I had five(by C-section) and adopted two. The youngest is my avatar. We are nowhere near rich, but these kids are the reason Iam on a mad quest for the fast lane. Their future prosperity is my drive as I don't want to have them grinding it out on the slow lane like I am doing.

We are actually happy that they are our biggest investment. They are now at a point where some can relieve me of house chores, while others participate in activities on the farm over the holidays.

The seven of them bring variety and colour to our interactions.

I plan to introduce them to this forum at the right ages .So MJ, followers are loading.

Do I have any regrets? Yes, that I can't have 1 more!

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

if you're asking yourself about the pros and cons of having children, then don't have them

 

[Marigold]

I had five(by C-section) and adopted two. The youngest is my avatar. We are nowhere near rich, but these kids are the reason Iam on a mad quest for the fast lane. Their future prosperity is my drive as I don't want to have them grinding it out on the slow lane like I am doing.

We are actually happy that they are our biggest investment. They are now at a point where some can relieve me of house chores, while others participate in activities on the farm over the holidays.

The seven of them bring variety and colour to our interactions.

I plan to introduce them to this forum at the right ages .So MJ, followers are loading.

Do I have any regrets? Yes, that I can't have 1 more!

Same. I regret not having ten kids. I only had two and now I'm too old.

If I could go back in time I'd start at 20 and keep having as many as I could.

And I homeschool my kids. They're far from weird and they're super social. Weird comments in here suggesting the only place kids hang out with other kids is school.

Trying to convey what it's like to have children to someone who doesn't is like trying to describe the taste of something someone has never tasted. You have to experience it for yourself.

 

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[WillHurtDontCare]

Same. I regret not having ten kids. I only had two and now I'm too old.

If I could go back in time I'd start at 20 and keep having as many as I could.

And I homeschool my kids. They're far from weird and they're super social. Weird comments in here suggesting the only place kids hang out with other kids is school.

Trying to convey what it's like to have children to someone who doesn't is like trying to describe the taste of something someone has never tasted. You have to experience it for yourself.

Very wholesome.

One of the worst things that I've seen today is the plethora of mass psy-ops to convince women that they shouldn't have children. 100% evil.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Agree.

From an investment standpoint, the wrong partner is the worst investment you can make. Learned the hard way and cost me about $2m pre-tax money, plus a major blow to my cash flow for the next 5-15 years.

There has to be some wizard lawyer who specializes in hiding money so that if divorce comes, there is nothing to find.

 

[Antifragile]

Trying to convey what it's like to have children to someone who doesn't is like trying to describe the taste of something someone has never tasted. You have to experience it for yourself.

This is so true. Well put!

 

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