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Vigilante

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Like I said earlier, I live a very happy life. It's only fall and winter that make me feel much worse but even then, it's not like I use it as an excuse for being unhappy. Even then I try to be as happy as I can.

I fully agree with you that sun isn't the only factor to happiness, though I still believe it can play a big role, especially when it affects your health.

@Vigilante - do you still travel back to colder climates for business/personal matters from time to time?



Deal haha.



True, though if I were to think about my happiest memories they wouldn't be the memories of me sitting alone on a beach in Mexico; they would be the memories of spending time with my girlfriend and friends (regardless of the weather).

In the end after talking with my girlfriend and thinking about it myself I decided to fill my calendar for the winter with frequent trips to warm countries (going to book a December trip with some friends to the south of Spain today). While traveling, I'll be investigating possible places to move to in the future. If frequent travels won't solve the problem, I'll know where to go (though I pretty much narrowed down the choice to the south of Spain, the Canary Islands and the south of Portugal).

Thank you for your perspective, @Andy Black. As weird as it sounds, your post is very soothing.

I am begrudgingly going back to the midwest this year for Christmas, and my son's college graduation. Love seeing the family, but they come to Florida regularly. I don't have a winter coat or any winter clothes any more, so I am not sure what I am going to do this Christmas. I told my wife I was going to have a town car pick me up, deliver me where ever I was going, and when it was time to leave they could come pick me up again and bring me to the airport.

The older I got, the more I dreaded Fall because Fall lead to winter, and I literally came to despise winter. Quite frankly, I don't understand people who like it, and I can only assume that a lack of knowing any differently is what leads to their complacence. I had seasonal disfunction disorder. I dreaded winter, dreaded winter approaching, and spent five months a year in a shitty mood like everyone else did.

Look at the cold weather states. Six months out of the year, the people are all assholes. Why? The air hurts your face. You trudge through slush in your dress shoes to your car, noticing that your pants, shoes and socks are now wet and will be like that for the better part of the day. You scrape the ICE off your windshield, and start your car while your body is trying to adjust from the 70+ indoor temps to the now below freezing weather that literally could freeze your blood if you let it. The car starts to warm up, but traffic sucks because it is snowing, and the snow plows haven't come through yet. Your 20 minute commute takes an hour, which is OK because everyone else is late also. You walk in the door to the office, and all anyone wants to talk about is the shitty weather. Vendors like me might fly in for a meeting, marvel at the fact that you live in a freezer, and fly back to the tropics. You look at the calendar but your one week vacation to the beach is still seven weeks away. You dread the drive home, the walk through the slush, the scraping the windshield, the warming up the car, the commute home through the snow, and the driveway that is waiting there for you to shovel it after the long, stressful, winter induced hateful day you had. And the next morning? You can get up and do it all again.

Coats. Winter hats. Mittens. Frozen snot. Frozen cars. Shoveling. Bad drivers. No sunshine. Cold to the bone. Dead battery. Need new windshield wipers. New tires. New attitude. You choose that. All of that.

Guess what? NOBODY needs to live like that. It is a choice.
 

MTF

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I live in a cold country and each year suffer for up to 6 months because of the low temperatures, lack of sunlight, short days, and people with permanent scowls on their faces. I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be better to leave everything I have here and move elsewhere where I wouldn't live with anxiety, frustration, and stress for a half of a year.

To anyone who has moved from a cold, dark or wet climate to a warm, sunny and dry climate - has it made you noticeably happier and greatly improved your quality of life?

If you have family and close friends back in your cold state/country, do the benefits of living in a sunny and warm place still outweigh the cons of missing them and essentially having to build a new life from scratch?
 
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MJ DeMarco

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To anyone who has moved from a cold, dark or wet climate to a warm, sunny and dry climate - has it made you noticeably happier and greatly improved your quality of life?

Short answer, abso-f*cking-lutely yes.

Long answer? I believe it increases your BASELINE level of happiness.

In Chicago my baseline was a near floor at a 2. If the sun shined, it moved to a 5 but then quickly retreated back to a 2 whenever the weather normalized.

When I moved to Phoenix, that baseline moved to an 8. When success followed and not being broke all the time, that baseline moved to a 9.

Now the baseline varies from a 9 to a 10. The only thing that can affect this baseline is your health -- so on days when I'm not feeling well, it might go down to an 8 -- nonetheless, it's really hard to feel like garbage when it's sunny and 75.
 

biophase

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F*ck yeah

I really don't think most people realize how much the weather influences their mood and decisions. Have you ever not gone to an event because it was drizzling or just cloudy? Maybe you didn't go out that one night with your friends because it was too cold? Would you have gone if it was 70 degrees and a perfect night? When a friend calls you up to do something, did you ever subconsciously say no just because the weather wasn't quite right for you?

All these little decisions you make, you may not realize was due to the weather.

Add these up over the course of 5, 10, 15 years... It must affect you somehow.

I make my yearly plans due to weather. I'm not going to visit Australia or New Zealand during the winter time or during the hot summer. I want to go when its nice everyday there. When people go on vacation, they go to nice, warm places. They don't travel from warmth to cold. There's a reason for that.

People who have never lived in a warm place will discount the weather and give excuses like how great their city is and how much is going on. But we all know that most events and things to do are better when it is 70 degrees outside and sunny vs. any other random weather.
 
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Vigilante

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CvDMMOtWIAA6IJi.jpg
 
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MJ DeMarco

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I fiddled around with my quantum physics machine and was able to see my life unfold as if I stayed in Chicago and did not move to a sunnier climate.

This is the only thing that it showed me...

iu
 

MJ DeMarco

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"When you have no money, it's never sunny."

I have to disagree based on individual circumstances. I believe perennial sunshine got my biochemistry right and hence, it kept me motivated me to do what was necessary. Had I stayed in a poor climate, I would have just done enough to survive, not thrive. Kinda hard to improve yourself when your #1 priority is to stay in bed.
 
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David Fitz

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Well I've finally moved to the Algarve, Portugal for now.

It's rained one day in the whole month. Blue skies, warm days, cold nights.

The thoughts of ever going back to Ireland would kill me. Can't believe I lived that life so long when I knew it wasn't for me.
 

Vigilante

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I would respond in detail but I spent a lot of the weekend on a sandbar just off of the Gulf coast and time got away from us. What day is this?
 

MTF

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Since this thread is active again, I wanted to add some thoughts after this year of my travels:

1. Climate is important but make sure the place where you want to move fits your other values

If you're currently stuck in a nice place like @Paul David's brilliantly sunny UK you may think that anything is better than that.

And while at first it may feel super nice to be in a place with sun and warm weather, if you find the place boring, if the locals are unfriendly, if you can't engage in your hobbies, if there's terrible air pollution, if there's no good food available, or if the infrastructure or safety sucks, it doesn't matter.

You want the place to reflect your values. If you like being surrounded by fit people, you won't feel good living on a small island in Oceania with some of the highest rates of obesity. If you like reliability, you won't feel good living in a chaotic country where nothing works.

Your life won't be better if you sacrifice civilization for great weather. You won't care about sunny weather if you worry about getting mugged the second you step outside or if you can only eat highly-processed imported crap. This brings me to my second point...

2. There aren't that many nice warm and sunny places in the world

If you remove the poorest countries, most options will already go away. If you remove crime-ridden countries or unstable countries, another quarter goes away. If you remove places with bad infrastructure, another quarter goes away. Eventually you end up with relatively few options, assuming you want to thrive in that new place and have an enjoyable, modern life.

From my research (I may miss some countries as I'm super tired after a long flight and a terrible night of sleep), these are the best options that could be livable for most people. They:
  • are foreigner-friendly (or potentially adaptable),
  • safe or relatively safe, without lots of crime for the standards of a given region,
  • have warm weather (never lower on average than 15 degrees Celsius during the day in the coldest month)
  • sunny (most tropical destinations aren't sunny so I excluded them),
  • aren't tiny countries where you'd go crazy after a week.
Asia (including Middle East):
  • Cyprus,
  • Malaysia,
  • Oman,
  • Qatar,
  • Thailand,
  • Turkey,
  • United Arab Emirates.
Africa:
  • Mauritius,
  • Morocco.
Europe:
  • Greece,
  • Italy,
  • Portugal,
  • Spain.
North America:
  • Barbados,
  • Guadeloupe,
  • Martinique,
  • Mexico,
  • United States.
South America:
  • Argentina,
  • Chile,
  • Uruguay.
Oceania:
  • Australia,
  • French Polynesia,
  • New Zealand.
So this is not much, just 24 countries and you could remove at least a half of them to pick the best of the best.

3. Islands are tough to live on

Islands, even larger islands, are tough to live on.

There's a specific mentality most islanders have that is extremely tiring after a while if you aren't an islander yourself. This applies even to islands belonging to larger countries. For example, the culture in the Canary Islands is VERY different compared to the culture of mainland Spain. You can count on people much more in mainland Spain compared to people living in the Canary Islands.

Once you explore the entire island, it may feel small and claustrophobic. Island fever attacks many people, even including people who have lived on an island for a long time.

Add to that complete dependence on airlines (you can't drive out of the island) and difficulty getting stuff you need quickly and it can get super frustrating.

4. You don't want a climate that's too hot

Even though I included some hot countries before (like the UAE), I generally recommend against any place that features hot weather.

If you live in a cold climate, you may want the hottest climate possible. But in many ways, a super hot climate (particularly if it's humid) is way worse than a temperate climate.

I'm currently in the Caribbean and the island where I'm at now already has a feels like index of 38 degrees Celsius / 100 degrees Fahrenheit at 8 am, 1.5 hours after sunrise.

During the day, it goes up to 42 degrees Celsius / 108 degrees Fahrenheit. It's so hot that you don't want to do anything. It's hard to focus on work. It's too hot to exercise, unless you practice water sports. You're constantly trying to cool off.

At night, it can still be 30 degrees Celsius / 86 degrees Fahrenheit. You can't sleep well unless you use AC (I don't as dryness kills my skin, eyes and throat) or (often loud) fans or your bedroom has a nice draft.

Of course, there are moments when it feels great (early morning) but overall, you're very limited because of the heat. And I'm saying it as a person who hates cold weather. I love warm weather but hot, humid weather is something else. If you've never experienced it, it's good to experience it to understand that you don't want hot weather but warm or maybe even "mild" weather.

5. Developing countries are overrated

Many digital nomads go to developing countries because these are the only countries they can afford. While some people genuinely enjoy these places, from my experience you usually get what you pay for.

Infrastructure, safety standards, income inequality, environment issues, etc. can be extremely frustrating to deal with. If you aren't bothered by seeing piles of trash everywhere, ever-present noise, daily smog, or beggars and sketchy people then maybe this won't concern you.

I feel way better in rich, prosperous places. I like clean, quiet, well-managed places. This usually means more regulation in some areas but in exchange you don't breathe toxic air, don't see piles of trash, don't hear F*cking roosters crowing everywhere, can drive on high-quality roads and can count on emergency services, hospitals, etc.

Out of all the countries I've visited, Australia is by far the best in this aspect. New Zealand is also good. In Europe, Spain is best, particularly in areas/cities/towns popular with expats like Costa del Sol.

6. If you can afford it, try it

If you have money and your lifestyle allows it, don't procrastinate. It takes only a few weeks to discover how you feel living in another place. Rent a local place, not a hotel, and try to live your life as you do back home (go shopping, exercise, meet with people, engage in your hobbies, etc.).

You're never going to regret the experience, even if you end up going back home. But if it works well, you may be extremely surprised how much better you feel somewhere else.

When I'm in a place that fits my values, I feel way, way, better. On the other hand, if I'm in a place that I don't like, I lose the willingness to live. The environment has a huge impact on how I feel. If you've been following this thread, you're probably wired like that, too.

So if you can, take that step and go abroad. In many cases (UK to Spain, US/Canada to Mexico, New Zealand to Australia) it's not even that expensive to go for a trial run on a tourist visa.
 
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Cosepreziose

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Never understood people moving from warm climate to cold climate unless one lives in a hopeless place like Somalia. Even with possible better career opportunities I'd still choose better lifestyle over voluntarily moving from a warm and sunny place to a dreary place like the UK (no disrespect to people from the UK; I'm talking about the climate).

I was 22 back then, I was in a long distance relationship with a british girl and had enough of it. So I decided I'd move to Uk to make an experience, learn english (which as I realised later, is one of the most important skills one can have nowadays) and be with her.

OH and trust me, Italy can be more hopeless than Somalia sometimes.
 

Paul David

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I live in Liverpool, Uk. This morning I had to turn the car on for 10 mins to defrost the windscreen before taking the kids to school. It's dark around 5pm now but pretty soon it will be dark by 3.30pm.

I hate it. It's about that time of year where my "winter depression" kicks in. I'd love to move to a sunnier climate but circumstances at the moment aren't suitable. I wished I had done when I was younger though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Vigilante

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The reason why people are always pissed off is because of a lack of Vitamin D. You could take some Vitamin D supplements to off-set the bad mood, but it still won't help you with the cold. Personally I'm trying to get out of Canada ASAP.

The reason people are pissed off is because the slush goes over the top of their dress shoes. Vitamin D doesn't help that unless you take the bag came in and use that inside of your shoes.
 
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I moved to India from the UK in April 2016. It's been the best decision I've ever made.

The cost of living is ridiculously low and I'm close to Southeast Asia (we've been to Malaysia and Thailand already. Planning more trips in 2017). I have a driver, housekeeping and a cook too. I couldn't live like this in the UK.

The weather, the food, the people - I love it. I went back to the UK in Jan 2017 for a 2 week break and it was meh. Seeing family, friends and our old home was strange but I felt no attachment.

It's still 'winter' here but today's weather is 23/24c.
 

Andy Black

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The winters aren't harsh here in Ireland. The kids love the frost and hopefully we'll get a bit of snow over Christmas.

My canal walk is beautiful at the moment with all the different colours of the leaves.

I love crisp days with blue skies, and as the days get shorter it brings back fond memories of previous autumns and winters.

There's something magical too about the days getting longer in the spring after coming through the winter.

It's a nice reminder of time passing as well.

The fact that I work for myself means I don't spend the winter day in a cubicle not seeing the sun for months on end. I remember commuting to work in the dark, working in a windowless office, and commuting home in the dark. It wasn't great but I enjoyed my time in the pubs in Dublin in the evenings ... ha.

Where we live now, my wife is 5 minutes walk from each of her 3 sisters, and 5 minutes drive from her parents. The kids are close to umpteen cousins, their school, and sports clubs.

The weather isn't that important to me as you can tell. Spending time with my family is.

If we could tow the whole island south and get a bit more sunshine then that would great. But realistically we've no intention of permanently moving somewhere just for the sun or weather.
 

MTF

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Update after a few months in case anybody suffers from the same problems...

It's mid-February and spring should finally arrive within the next few weeks at most (or so I hope).

At the end of November I bought a light box (a super strong lamp for light therapy). It has made a big difference in how I've been feeling during the winter. It hasn't cured the underlying problem I shared in my first post, but I can better tolerate winters now. I highly recommend reading Winter Blues by Norman Rosenthal for more information about light therapy and other ways to deal with SAD.

Since posting this thread I traveled twice to a sunny and warm climate - in December and seven weeks later in February. That helped a lot, too.

The second time I went on a trip I deliberately didn't treat it as going on vacation so I could see if I could maintain high productivity while being abroad in a warm place. I successfully maintained my routine: woke up as early as back home, maintained my healthy diet and worked in the morning. I think I wouldn't have any problems maintaining it for however long I'd stay there (early mornings and evenings could be reserved for work, the rest to be spent outdoors).

In addition to that, I try to focus as much as I can on improving my business and rock climbing performance (my two biggest passions in life). I probably wouldn't be able to survive the winter if it wasn't for these two things.

I think that while I'm not ready yet, one day I'll probably move to another country with a better climate (or buy a second home and live in two places). For now, light therapy, taking frequent trips (I'd love to take more but I prefer traveling with other people so it doesn't depend entirely on me) and trying to forget about the weather outside by immersing myself in my passions seems to help.
 

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I just lived through my first "winter" in Arizona. We just moved from the Midwest to the Phoenix area last July. Every winter I would dread getting up and going out into the cold,ice,snow etc. this winter was absolutely fantastic! We were swimming in our pool into November and the pool temp is getting close to warm enough where we are itching to get in. We should be swimming again by the first week of March. The "winter" consisted of a few weeks where you had to wear a jacket and start the car to melt a little frost off a few early mornings. We left behind family and friends in the Midwest and obviously miss them but the pros definitely outweigh the cons IMO.
 

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For me personally? Hell yes.

This won't apply to everyone though. Some people need friends & family around -I didn't. Some people need freedom & a fresh start with sunshine & warm temps -I did.

It's all relative to you & how you're wired.
 
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I'm sure it makes a BIG difference, however I am not going to let weather stop me from reaching my goals.

I have been supplementing 5000 iu vitamin D over the last two months and I would say it has made a noticeable difference in my mood. I wouldn't say I am necessarily happier(I am already happy) but I've noticed my mood is more level. I find myself complaining less, especially about the weather. In other words, my mood feels like it does all summer when I am getting plenty of sunlight/fresh air.

That being said my plan is to move to a warmer/sunnier climate because I really enjoy outdoors and great weather.
 
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Eskil

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"Has Moving to a Warm and Sunny Climate Made You Happier?"

YES - ABSOLUTELY!

But as I stated before in similar threads - not only has it made me happier day to day. It has also made me more driven and more focused.
Being more driven and more focused has directly and positively impacted my business and rate of success. Places I lived before with shitty and cold winters didn't prevent those things completely because a true, driven mind won't let anything get in the way. But they certainly slowed down my progress, I know that.

Like @Vigilante said - I don't understand why people choose to live through 4-6 months of winter hell, lol...
 
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Vigilante

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Sorry, I'd like to keep it private. Rest assured it's a cold and dark place in the winter, though, lol.



That's funny, I have no issues whatsoever with ~100 F (40 C) temperatures. I still go outside and still enjoy the day. At least with such high temperatures you can usually still enjoy the outdoors (if the temperature bothers you) in the morning and in the evening. If it's cold, it doesn't matter; it's never warm enough to comfortably spend time outside. I'd gladly take hot weather over 10-15 F (-5 or -10 C).



Oh yes, I always start to miss that whenever I'm at the airport heading home.

I'd take Arizona or Florida hot for a couple of months. Both are a different type of hot from each other, with one finding solace in the dry heat and the other finding escapes to the Gulf or Atlantic coastlines. The heat doesn't bother me. I find subzero temperatures inescapable and the older I got.. intolerable. I will never again live in a climate that includes snow, ice, and slush.
 

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I have to disagree based on individual circumstances. I believe perennial sunshine got my biochemistry right and hence, it kept me motivated me to do what was necessary. Had I stayed in a poor climate, I would have just done enough to survive, not thrive. Kinda hard to improve yourself when your #1 priority is to stay in bed.

I wonder sometimes if it's "causation or correlation" of the number of successful people we know who moved from the Midwest to Arizona. Is it just Arizona? Or is it meeting people who have the same mindset.

Personally, I think that in addition to the sun, the lower cost of living lowers your stress. And a lower stress level, leads to more productiveness.

I did not have this same feeling living in LA. Yes, it's sunny, but the housing prices there did not make for a comfortable life.
 
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Cosepreziose

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I did the opposite, I'm from Italy but had been living in UK for one year.
What I can tell you is that I was really missing the warm and especially, the sun.
So it should be the opposite for you, especially if you feel unsatisfied about the weather already.
Weather is definitely a mood changer.
 

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I know this thread is about winter, but the reverse is true as well.

Texas is a hell hole in the summer time. The kids all go on break from school, just in time for it to be too hot to play outside for more than 10 minutes at a time.

It's slightly preferable over winter, as at least you can jump in a pool. So summer has one activity that you can enjoy outside, whereas a miserable winter has zero.


I spent last summer in Sweden, and the temps were gorgeous. Highs in the 70s and one day hit 83. The entire city was outside biking every day. My mood was great all summer.


Dallas is nice in the early spring and in the fall. It sucks in the summer, and is tolerable in the winter. We plan on leaving every summer to go somewhere else.
 
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G-Man

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Not to downplay role of climate, but I've lived in the frosty Midwest, the African Sahel, the SE Asian sweat bowl, and now Texas. I have struggled with procrastination and depression in all those places.

Much to my chagrin, character is not location dependent.
 

DamienRoche

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I live in a cold country and each year suffer for up to 6 months because of the low temperatures, lack of sunlight, short days, and people with permanent scowls on their faces. I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be better to leave everything I have here and move elsewhere where I wouldn't live with anxiety, frustration, and stress for a half of a year.

To anyone who has moved from a cold, dark or wet climate to a warm, sunny and dry climate - has it made you noticeably happier and greatly improved your quality of life?

If you have family and close friends back in your cold state/country, do the benefits of living in a sunny and warm place still outweigh the cons of missing them and essentially having to build a new life from scratch?

Ya know, I used to think I was bipolar. I lived in the UK up until 2 months ago, when I moved to Thailand. I did also quit my job and move back to freelancing.

Since then I've realised I wasn't prone to depression or bipolar or have a chemical imbalance - I was living in a crappy climate as a wage slave.

I have never been happier in my life, and I know for a fact I will NEVER live in a cold climate again. I don't have to. I can live in Asia for the rest of my life if I want to, and I probably will. If I do ever move, it will be another warm climate, and it will be somewhere that doesn't require me to work 40+ hours a week to survive - though, voluntarily, I'll happily work double that if it's something I 100% CHOOSE to work on.

Yes, weather has a definite effect. There are many studies done on this (will reference if nobody has referenced above). But also your work/life balance has a major effect. Nobody is happy being a drone for 40 hours a week. You have to cut off part of your humanity and numb yourself to such a lifestyle to even endure it.

..and yes, it is worth the distance from your family (doubly so if your family is destructive). Primarily because it gives you the opportunity to learn how to truly be alone without a support network. I've matured very quickly over the last couple of months simply because I've been left to face every facet of myself every day, and particularly my mood. I've now largely learned how to manage myself - I know exactly what knocks me off balance (lack of morning/night routine personally), and I know how to keep myself contented and enjoy solitude.
 
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OldFaithful

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@MTF you are not alone. I too live in a region that suffers from perceptual gray skies for half of the year. At the moment, I've got priorities & commitments that keep me here. In a few years, when our lives have changed...I do plan to have another residence in a sunny, dry climate.

If you don't have existing commitments that tie you to your current location, why not consider applying the Weighted Average Decision Matrix and see how it plays out? Just be thorough & honest with your WADM, it might surprise you.
 
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MitchC

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I haven't read the thread but do it! It will improve your quality of life like nothing else. I should be way more miserable and unproductive where I moved to but I'm not, and its the weather. It is impossible not to be happy, excited about life and productive when the sun is shining and its hot, clear blue sky, driving in your car with the aircon on, you cannot not be positive and happy doing that. You feel like anything is possible and you are going somewhere. You do need to get used to it tho. The first few weeks I was stuck to the couch with the fan blowing, and it slowly got better from there. I will never move back home purely because of the weather here.
 
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amp0193

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It's the same in the midwest. I'll often just randomly talk to people and they'll tell me their life story.

"I was born here, never really wanted to go anywhere else"


The thing about travel, is that you don't know what you're missing until you've done it.
 

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