Happiness = $60k a year?

[Rain]

Happiness Is Earning $60,000 A Year? » My Money Blog

“Below 60,000 dollars a year, people are unhappy, and they get progressively unhappier the poorer they get. Above that, we get an absolutely flat line. I mean I’ve rarely seen lines so flat.”

“Clearly… money does not buy you experiential happiness, but lack of money certainly buys you misery,” he said.

Interesting article.

Obviously, this forum attracts people that are generally more ambitious, but I also get the hint that many (if not most) people here don't even earn $60k a year. If that insults you, I apologize. Just realize that I am also in that same boat, lol... for now. (And yes, I know, we all have plans to make millions soon enough.)

Thoughts on article? To be fair, it does make sense. Not that it will stop me from going Fastlane...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[DeletedUser394]

I'd be happy on $60K/year, but I wouldn't settle for that. Heck I make dog s*** money right now and I'm having a blast and looking forward to (as well as working towards) the future!

Plan on $60K/year would be to save 50% of income, invest in one or two properties (depending on location) per year. Save 50% again following year, and buy more property. Then create a prospectus (don't think that's the right term, but whatever), and use your past property investments as indication of potential future success to attract JV investors. Keep working the job. After a few years of doing that, use any built up equity to buy more property while continuing to save and invest 50% of annual income.

After 10 or so years (In my case, I'd be only 29), tell the boss man (or woman) to shove it and continue building your portfolio of real estate and other investments. (Franchises, paper assets, etc).

Also, interesting to note, that in Canada at least, a full 54% of tax filers have an annual income less than $30,000...

 

[MakeItHappen]

well it's not about the numbers it's about the freedom you get!
if you are living in thailand as an example and you make 30k/year you will life like a KING so you will prolly be even happier with 30k in thailand than 60k in the us...
on the other hand if you could earn 2k/month 100% passive for the rest of you life that would be even greater because it just comes down to the freedom and choice money can give you

 

[Rickson9]

For better or worse, happiness has never been correlated with material things like money.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PatrickP]

didn't read the article. IF it says you are not happy under 60K a year then to me it is a pile of crapola.

I was working 2 minimum wage full time jobs, living above a bar in a room with no way to lock the door, doing triathlon training 20+ hours a week, hitting the bar downstairs 3 or 4 nights a week until closing, dating a great girl and LOVING life. NO way I was even close to 60K more like 24K

Flash forward, moved to FL was working 100+ hours a week in my own gym making LESS than 24 K a year. No car so had to ride a bike everywhere. Would close up the place at 10PM, bike home which was close to the beach. Run down to the beach, hop from bar to bar until 2 AM 4 or 5 nights a week once again dating a GREAT girl and LOVING life.

 

[lookingahead]

Compared to my life now..yes I'd be happy with 60K a year. I work two jobs to afford my apartment and school, so 60K a year would be good for me. Now, I wouldn't be happy for long cause I'd want more eventually. Hence why I'm here.

but I'd have to be with PatrickP up there, I'm not miserable where I'm at now. Yes it's stressful but it's worth it, at least I have a roof over my head can do things I please. Work on a business and have "some" free time. I do enjoy my life as of now..just wish I had more free time and wasn't tired all the time.

 

[Lights]

Happiness depends on the individual, and not on the opinions of others.

It doesn't depend on the bank account, it doesn't depend on your mother/father approval, or making your kids proud. Happiness comes from within, and no one can take it away. If you are living the life that brings you true happiness, then no one can say you're unhappy. If being in a cult, being the thinnest, being the richest, being the poorest, healing people, or doing criminal actions makes you happy... then you're happy. It doesn't matter what makes you happy, as long as you know yourself... you can choose the route that makes you happy. Know thy self.

People overthink this too much.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[easymoney99]

I made 60k last year.. and i'm not hurting for money. But i'm still struggling to get up to where i need to get for TRUE freedom. I need to eventually derive my income from interest and dividends and capital gains. That's how MJ does it. The Fastlane business is MEANS to get the capital to begin earning money from interest, dividends and capital gains because then you only pay 15% tax.

But as far as making 60k last year versus 32k the previous year and 18k the pre-previous year. I think I was just as happy/unhappy in all 3 years. I'm fueled by the hope of creating something beautiful that adds value, or fills a need in the market. Also every small success is celebrated. That is why I say its "easy" money, I just mean that it's not dreadful like other jobs I've had.

So even though right now I only have about 4k, (had to pay 13k in taxes last april because I foolishly saved 20k last year instead of spending it on deductible expenses) I still feel as I usually feel which is that the solution will appear in the time of need as it always does.

 

[Pete799p]

I would be happy with 60k a year in semi passive or passive income although I dont think I am the kind of person who will hit that number and stop.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

The money, the goal, none of it really matters in the end. Why? Because it's all about growth.

In the end it's not that you did 20k, 60k, 200k, it's about did it get bigger? Of course people
who make under $60,000 are going to be upset. They make 30k, always have, always will.

If any of YOU made 60k this year you would be happy for a short period of time and then you
would need to reach a little higher.

I'm starting to ramble on (like always) but the other side of this is that the majority of people's
expenses will rise to meet their income. So all of a sudden you make 60k, but you have 60k of
expenses (even if you do it the "smart way" and invest it, it's still an expense until it cash flows
or pays off)...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PatrickP]

KFS I am a fan of yours and hope you know that.

I do wonder how do you make such broad statements like of course under 60K you are upset.

You may want to go back and read some of the posts in this thread as they contradict your broad statement.

 

[damien275x]

I live in Australia and my annual salary is $64,000 p/a. I'm not happy with it, I guess Australia is more expensive to live, maybe I should come to USA where everything seems to be getting cheaper by the day. It reeally is sad, but the way I look at it, America is becoming the next bali, all the tourists are going to be flying in for a cheap luxurious holiday, while the average american is going to be so dirt poor, serving us food and cleaning up after us. What a fall from grace, in the 60's and 70's USA was powerful and wealthy, now you have a lazy population and an enormous defecit. Of course a large part of the world still lives in the past and sees America as important, relevant, powerful, but lets be honest, It's China baby. China does everythning, America does nothing. When people look back at history they are going to see America as the stupidest nation ever to allow the rug to be pulled out from under them!!

As for what salary offers happiness, you shouldn't even be looking in nominal terms, because currency loses and changes value ever year, nominal values are irrelevant. You need to find a percentage, I would say a healthy percentage for happiness would be having + 30% of your income being available for leisure, after all your bills are paid. That and doing work you love and find meaningful, or not working at all.

When I think about it, I truly live like a king did in the past. I have all my groceries shopped by someone else and delivered, I never cook, I never do any chores, I have hired help etc. But you would be surprised at how quickly you just get used to it, and other trivial problems creep into your life and piss you off. Some people look at me as well off, I think of myself as average/not enough. It's really a state of mind, and you need to learn to practice gratitute, something that i"m trying to do more of. Otherwise you'll just chase more and be unhappy. If you fall into this trap, you're stuffed. My uncle amasses huge fortune but so miserable trying to guard it, protect it, and accumulate more. It's a psychological addition, I do it too, OCD refresh bank account, etc....

 

[PatrickP]

I have heard things are quite a bit more expensive in Austalia.

YIKES you paint life in the USA in a pretty dismal brush.

Well speaking for a few American's please don't feel sorry for us, the majority of people in the world would move here in an instant if they could

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[leono]

When people look back at history they are going to see America as the stupidest nation ever to allow the rug to be pulled out from under them!!

You know that then makes China pretty stupid too, right? Once upon time, China was where all the happening shit took place, and then they (their various danasties) fell, came back, fell, and now are looking at a comeback again. What you've written is pretty much the story of every great civilization (the Greeks, the Romans, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Mongols, the Russians, ... need I say more?)

 

[damien275x]

Australia is insanely expensive, but we have a high minimum wage, $15.00 minimum per hour. In my suburb a house is about $1,000,000 and it's not even a rich suburb. Mainly due to dumbass "investors" etc.. I think it will crash soon though, and they will lose all their profits, yes, everyones home is worth 1m, but if everyone sells at once down it goes.

RE: America, I may be bias because all of my American e-pals are pretty poor, and I guess there's that whole perception difference, people struggling are going to complain more than people who are comfortable.

And yes after a 400 year decline China is rising up and USA is doing nothing but reduce incentives to hire in USA (tax, regulations). It will suck when China stop loaning USA money and exporting their goods, and just consume themselves. It will be an immediate and noticable standard of living decline.

It remains to be seen whether Australia will back America when their credit cards expire and the bill is owed, or if we will side with China who are buying all our resources, we are quite literally stuck in the middle. Lets hope they don't do both and nullify the two leaving us with nothing!! L-O-L

 

[leono]

It will suck when China stop loaning USA money and exporting their goods, and just consume themselves.

And then they (the Chinese) too will begin their downward spiral, and the next superpower will take their place. It's kind of sad to watch history repeat itself, over and over again. Oh well, it's how some of us fastlaners become rich!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[damien275x]

Well if you look ahead you should be able to launch successful ventures that thrive in times of frugality.
Clothing repairs, clothing rental, clothing sharing, seeds/agriculture (grow own food),cheap entertainment (5-10 dollar games),
debt assistance/budget programs, you can also pick up really good quality workers for less as it's a recession and they can't get high paid work.

It's only doom and gloom for employees with no drive to do anything for themselves and expect either a job, or a welfare cheque. Remember more millionaires were created in the Great Depression than any other time in history You need to be bold

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Patrick my man you are absolutely right.

I didn't quite come off how I intended. First off I think the article itself is saying that the 60k per year (arbitrary) threshold is where people feel "financially secure". They are no longer stressing about the basic necessities, so they can focus on "happiness". But this is bogus like you are saying because the formula is NOT (more money) = (more happy).

I can understand where they're coming from because I (like many) have experienced what it's like to not eat for days because there wasn't enough money.

What I meant by this harsh statement:

In the end it's not that you did 20k, 60k, 200k, it's about did it get bigger? Of course people
who make under $60,000 are going to be upset. They make 30k, always have, always will.

... is that in my experience the people I grew up with in the hood didn't ever care to DO anything about it. They have doomed themselves with the belief "this is how life is". They struggle to keep the phone, the lights, and the heat on every month, so "of course" they are unhappy.

What I wasn't intending to include was young guys like us who were/have been/are just getting started, because that's a completely different mindset.

Personally, I have had some pretty strong emotional associations to money(or lack of it), so - for me - making more makes me happier. (WARNING: OBVIOUSLY NOT THE ONLY THING). That may sound like some malarky but I will not go back to seeing my mother crying at the table under a mountain of bills. I will not go back to only eating saltine crackers for weeks at a time. I will not go back to watching the girl of my dreams slip out of my hands because I couldn't afford to take her to mcdonalds let alone give her what she really deserves. I will not go back to lying to a kid who tries to sell me chocolate bars because he was trying to get to football camp and I didn't have the $1 it cost. I'm an extreme case, but for me? Part of MY happiness equation is money. Lots of it...

Now if we are talking about happiness - it's simple. It just revolves around your rules about happiness. Answer this question and you'll know exactly what must happen for you to be happy:

For me to be happy what must happen?

 

[Pete799p]

Australia is insanely expensive, but we have a high minimum wage, $15.00 minimum per hour. In my suburb a house is about $1,000,000 and it's not even a rich suburb. Mainly due to dumbass "investors" etc.. I think it will crash soon though, and they will lose all their profits, yes, everyones home is worth 1m, but if everyone sells at once down it goes.

RE: America, I may be bias because all of my American e-pals are pretty poor, and I guess there's that whole perception difference, people struggling are going to complain more than people who are comfortable.

And yes after a 400 year decline China is rising up and USA is doing nothing but reduce incentives to hire in USA (tax, regulations). It will suck when China stop loaning USA money and exporting their goods, and just consume themselves. It will be an immediate and noticable standard of living decline.

I agree with most of what you are saying. Almost every business owner I know has moved some portion of their business overseas to aviod the rediculous amount of regulation, taxation, and BS in the US. Between the labor laws, pay roll taxes, unemployment insurance, health care costs, hastles with imigration, City building codes and requirements, OSHA, safty protocal, and the list goes on. Its no wonder nobody wants to make anything here. I met a guy the other day who for these vary same reasons closed down their factory last year and moved it to Mexico. They have less head aches and more money, it was more about the head aches then the money. The worst part is the solution is always more regulation.

However, the rise of China also provides some great opportunities for the US. A growing poplulation means the need for more energy, food, comodities etc. As the prices rise it now becomes profitable to do things like mine in the US. Cattle prices are up about 30%ish this year and wheat and grain prices as well (good for farmers). We are also starting to produce massive amounts of natural gas that we will need to find a buyer for. Energy and mining jobs tend to pay well and if exported to China will help to greatly reduce our trade defficite. I saw an interview with the head of a newly reopened gold mine. They said the costs to remian in regulatory compliance is so high that it shut the mine down for decades until Gold started hitting record prices.

I would say I am far from Bullish on the US but I also think it could be much worse.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[hatterasguy]

$60k a year is a pretty good level where you don't have to worry about buying cloths or starving. Below that and you start to have to making lifestyle decisions.

I have simple tastes so I can live pretty cheaply, but $60k isn't much. $150k a year is a good number if you want to have a bit of fun.

 

[Joxmb]

I'm sure $60k can make a lot of people happy. More I think you can have more fun and excitement in your life though.

I know money can buy me happiness. My family of 4 life on 20k-25k so I buy like 3 t shirts and 2 jeans a year and a pair of shoes per year, etc. Eat leftovers, basically student life (probably not even haha) but for a family.

My goal will be much higher than 60k a year though. I'll have a pretty much guarenteed 250k-350k but I'm sure more=better so obviously will try for more haha.. If more money doesn't buy you more happiness, it'll buy happiness by letting you have more spare time.

 

[DeletedUser397]

That's pretty much the amount I make right now. But after you account for tax it's only about $38k. Of course I want more than that otherwise I wouldn't be here. Could I be happy with $60k? Sure, I could be happy with nothing. Happiness is purely a state of mind and has nothing to do with my finances. Of course, it would depend on where I live as well. If I wanted to be truly happy with a lower income, I'd need to move somewhere with a lower cost of living.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ageofz]

The money, the goal, none of it really matters in the end. Why? Because it's all about growth.

That's what it's about for me. Roughly 14 months ago I was a student living off of 2k/month, and this month I've already made over 20k (my income, biz profit is a lot more). For me, it's about setting goals, shattering records and creating innovative new ways to expand your means.

If it wasn't for that ambition, I'd say that my happiness would be much lower than it is now. There comes a point, I'd say 60k (individual income) is a good number, where you are making enough to not have to worry about needs, have money to go out and are able to create a nest egg for extra financial security. But you aren't doing so well that people start asking you for stuff and friends start to resent your success.

For me, when I was achieving 5 figures a month, things started changing. New opportunities arose, but people around me started to change. Family members began looking to me to help them with financial trouble. It got to a point where the only phone calls I received from my parents were basically asking me for money. Friends even start to resent you for doing well.

Before I got successful, I always believed that everyone would be happy and congratulate me. But a lot of people close to me start to think "What's in it for me?"

In fact, it has been and still sort of is, a mental roadblock to growing my success. I don't want other people looking at me differently. I'm still the same person, money didn't change me, it only made me more of who I already was. Sometimes I wonder how things will be when I'm making 6 figures a month??

I love the fact that I was able to pay my mom's bills while she was unable to work, I also love being able to reward my little sister for getting into college with a car. But I don't like the added pressure of this success such as having to keep my family afloat. I think a lot of these problems are because everyone in my family is poor, and I have a tendency to take other people's problems as my own.

For me, it's about being the best you can be. Each month, take on new challenges and grow your income. Don't settle for less because you are lazy or you are scared that other people may change. Just be prepared to deal with growing pains.

 

[mayana]

I'm fueled by the hope of creating something beautiful that adds value, or fills a need in the market.

That's what makes me happy, too.

 

[Kak]

There is a difference. I would rather make 60k in my own venture than any amount as an employee.

Seriously given the choice today between my life now making about 55k and a job making 100k more Id take my business.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[EastWind]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I gotta say it.

Happiness != MONEY. Doesn't matter if it's $0 or a billion.

Happiness is simply about having solid realistic goals in life, and then working hard and meeting them.
Happiness is about your life experiences in the process with yourself, and your social circle.