GET TO COLLEGE! (Because I failed at business.)

[Royce2]

Hey man i'm also learning CS, is there any place where we can talk? Let's exchange some ideas

Sure just click on my name and select “start a discussion”

 

[ZF Lee]

One doesn’t simply enroll in university and get free stuff....

Unless your university is free.

If it isn’t, then you’re paying for all of that. Lol

Well, it's free in the sense that I didn't need to pay for the stuff on a daily basis. Plus, for what I paid for, benefits definitely outweighs costs in terms of academic and research tools. However, some of the stuff like meetups wasn't strictly listed under tuition fees, but clubs. Depending on the talk though, if it required some materials, such as a photography class for ecommerce, they'd want you to pay a fee.

 

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[ZF Lee]

And end up with a job you hate. I did this i went to uni without a clear goal and it was a complete waste of f*cking time.

You know you might end up doing a business that sells products you don't exactly love, right?

Nothing wrong about that though, as long there's demand.

 

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[Fantasticlife]

Colleges do not ensure education. They sell a script. Most people benefit at least a little bit from college. Some ppl benefit a lot.

If you have access to this post you have access to a lifetime of free learning, a free education. The problem is that most people don’t know how to design their own curriculum or they utterly lack the discipline it takes to commit to it. Most people are so stuck in a script they don’t know they’re even stuck. Where did you get your definition of education from?!? Why are you pursuing it?

What is education? Why do you get an education? Hint: Utilitarians say it’s just to get a job. They’re wrong.

A Real Education is a part of YOUR LIFE.
A Real Education is the science of relations: vibrant connections bring us happiness.
A Real Education gives you a deep and abiding LOVE for learning.
Self-Education is the only Real Education because you don’t learn sh*t if you don’t WANT TO LEARN.

A complete Real Education involves living books written by people who lived in the times you’re studying not regurgitated textbooks written by a board of white pencil pushers w/ no concept of war, death, or disease ; it includes fiction and non-fiction; it has a large scope of history, literature, foreign language, math, science, geography, poetry, music, art, and the ability to make things that are useful. It doesn’t exclude knowledge of what it means to be human just because learning those things might not get you a job.

A Real Education gives you a relationship to the beauty, truth, and goodness of the world around you. It gives you confidence in yourself and a genuine desire to make the world a better place, because a Real Education instills virtue, duty, honor, kindness, and compassion.

A Real Education helps you to become a better human being not a better employee or boss or worker or consumer, a BETTER HUMAN BEING.

If you find a college that supports a Real Education and you want to pay for it, then by all means, go right ahead.

Sheesh.

What kind of pretentious BS is this?

Like I said, I can't speak for the US, but in the UK each of your three above blanket statements are completely untrue. Perhaps as a much smaller nation our mantra of 'go to university or you're worthless' isn't quite as developed. It was really on its way in the 2000s where it became the norm that everyone just goes without question, but the huge increase in fees in recent years has resulted in people seeking other options and employers changing their stance.

Like I said, I can't speak for the US, but in the UK each of your three above blanket statements are completely untrue. Perhaps as a much smaller nation our mantra of 'go to university or you're worthless' isn't quite as developed. It was really on its way in the 2000s where it became the norm that everyone just goes without question, but the huge increase in fees in recent years has resulted in people seeking other options and employers changing their stance.

Yeah. If you don't know what to do, there's nothing wrong with a scripted career path . You can quit anytime and take the plunge if you want.

I have to be realistic. I am not an entrepreneur, and that's OK. I remember Mark Cuban once saying something along the lines of "I'd much rather make 40k a year working 80 hours a week working for myself than make 250k working for someone else." Being honest with myself, I would take the 250K job. So I don't have that mindset.

Get rich quick definitely exists, but it's rare, and the chances are low. Usually wealth is built over time. Whatever path to wealth you take it usually takes at least 10 years.

It's OK to be a doctor or lawyer if you cant figure it out. Much better to have a 100k a year job to fall back on than nothing


Zero economic sense? That's absurd!

Think about the long term! College grads earn more on average than people without a degree.
In case if the business doesn't work out, one always has the degree to fall back on.
The chances of becoming a successful entrepreneur are LOW. Is it possible, absolutely. But it takes a lot of hard work, sacrifice, and luck as well.

Going to college will open doors for you. I've never heard a successful lawyer, doctor I banker or trader tell me to not go to school.
Also, a large part of success isn't what you know, but who you know.
I met someone who ran a company which raised $1 billion in funding. The company brought renewable energy to countries in Latin America. He worked hard in his industry for about 20 years to get there. Do you think he wouldve had that opportunity if he didnt even have a college degree?

Ive been attending school, and I met someone who started a startup accelerator which has had several companies which raised 10 digits in funding.

College gives you access to SO much opportunity. It is not to be underestimated.

By not having a degree, you are depriving yourself of working in MANY different industries.

Is it possible to be successful without college? Yes. But the chances are lower.


Zero economic sense? That's absurd!

Think about the long term! College grads earn more on average than people without a degree.
In case if the business doesn't work out, one always has the degree to fall back on.
The chances of becoming a successful entrepreneur are LOW. Is it possible, absolutely. But it takes a lot of hard work, sacrifice, and luck as well.

Going to college will open doors for you. I've never heard a successful lawyer, doctor, I banker or trader tell me to not go to school.
Also, a large part of success isn't what you know, but who you know.
I met someone who ran a company which raised $1 billion in funding. The company brought renewable energy to countries in Latin America. He worked hard in his industry for about 20 years to get there. Do you think he wouldve had that opportunity if he didnt even have a college degree?

Ive been attending school, and I met someone who started a startup accelerator which has had several companies which raised 10 digits in funding.

College gives you access to SO much opportunity. It is not to be underestimated.

By not having a degree, you are depriving yourself of working in MANY different industries.

Is it possible to be successful without college? Yes. But the chances are much lower.

8 digits , not 10.

 

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[Fantasticlife]

What kind of pretentious BS is this?

I apologize primeperiwinkle. I just skimmed your post and didnt thoroughly read it

 

[Healthfulness]

This really isn't true mate. There are a lot of European countries where it is free or close to free, there are also a lot of European countries where it is very expensive, none more so than the UK. Still cheaper than the USA, but please don't put out blanket statements like that if you don't know the facts.

Sorry. My bad. I'm in Denmark and I get paid to study there.
Shortly, the whole point was that I've seen examples where people quit studies and then end up working shit jobs, because they can't handle the real entrepreuner struggle. After studies, there's atleast safety net, meaning if business doesn't go well, you can get atleast comforable job, not grind in McDonalds to survive.
I personally believe I won't need this safety net (as I will succeed), but still feels good to know, that I have guarantee of comfortable slowlane available in case I need it.

 

[The Abundant Man]

Grads earn more than non-grads because sidewalkers and lazy people fall into that category.

Here is a quick tip:
If you are presented with statistical data always try to see which variables are included/excluded. People lie with statistics, a lot. Relying on statistics before examining the inputs and Z-factors is not a good way to go.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk

Right. There's always a margin of error when it comes to statistics.

Shouldn't they always put out the percentiles when presenting statistics?

 

[Fantasticlife]

Grads earn more than non-grads because sidewalkers and lazy people fall into that category.

Here is a quick tip:
If you are presented with statistical data always try to see which variables are included/excluded. People lie with statistics, a lot. Relying on statistics before examining the inputs and Z-factors is not a good way to go.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk

So you agree that college grads are less likely to be lazy sidewalkers ?

 

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[emphasize.v1]

Right. There's always a margin of error when it comes to statistics.

Shouldn't they always put out the percentiles when presenting statistics?

I'm not saying stats are wrong, what I'm pointing out is that they don't reveal much about causality nor do they talk about all relevant factors.

Like yeah, grads earn more - but why? Is it because they are grads or because they work harder than people who decide to chill rather than going to college? Are they more motivated? More connected to people etc. etc.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisV]

Grads earn more than non-grads because sidewalkers and lazy people fall into that category.

Here is a quick tip:
If you are presented with statistical data always try to see which variables are included/excluded. People lie with statistics, a lot. Relying on statistics before examining the inputs and Z-factors is not a good way to go.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk

Right. There's always a margin of error when it comes to statistics.

Shouldn't they always put out the percentiles when presenting statistics?

It’s more than that. College grads earn more, period.




You can question causality, but there’s not a shred of evidence that education doesn’t correlate with income.

 

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[Fantasticlife]

..

 

[Fantasticlife]

...

You aren't understanding. There are clear biases with these stats.

The people who are trying to succeed in life are more likely to go further in their education than others since that's what everyone says leads to success. People who don't care about success won't go farther in school.

Also when you graduate with a degree and 6 figures of debt, you work harder at making more money.

Also when you go deep into schooling you are typically going for a specific job that requires that degree, like pharmacist, lawyer, or CPA . The people without the degree can't get those jobs even if they have all of the knowledge.

Also a lot of people in well paying jobs get incentives by their company to go back to school and get better degrees.

Some get direct pay increases instantly when they get a a better degree, think public school teachers.

There's probably more biases that I can't even think of. While those stats are true, they don't paint the whole picture.

If you only saw this graph below, you would think only morons get Bachelor's Degrees.

It's not that everyone says it's more likely to lead to success. It IS more likely to lead to success.

How many people in the Forbes 400 have college degrees?
Doctorate, Degree or Dropout: How Much Education It Takes To Become A Billionaire

84%.
Almost 1/4th of them graduated from an ivy league.

 

[Covalentsynergy]

Oh OK, so you're not here to learn anything but here to TROLL us with your worldview.

This is an entrepreneur forum.

So when this thread dies, you'll leave because you're not here to learn, and you're not here for any particular self-growth or for any contributing factor.

You think you're here to enlighten us.

Sorry, but that's not why I built this place.



Bahahahah, who told you that? The Federal Reserve? The College Board?

How about "Milk, it does a body good." You believe that too?

How about the CNN report that Trump is an evil orange man hell-bent on world-destruction? Believe that?

Even better, how about the study that SUGAR is good for you? You know, the one conducted and released by the Sugar Refiner trade group?

The "college grad earns more" studies are all flawed studies because it is statistically impossible to isolate book smart youths and keep them away from college and funnel them into other pursuits.

Garbage in, Garbage out, complete with an army of drones ready and willing to regurgitate the nonsense.

Additionally, there is systemic discrimination that keeps non-degreed individuals out of jobs/ventures that sanctimoniously have a degree as a requirement.

These factors make it virtually impossible to determine if "college" is actually the definitive factor for success. There's too many precursors and procursors.

Your reasoning is equivalent to saying, "Studies show that if you're 7 feet tall, your chances of getting a basketball scholarship improve by 64%."

Well yea, duh.

No show me a huge study with thousands of well-adjusted, book-smart students admitted to Harvard and then suddenly, purposely KEPT AWAY. Then compare them to another group who does actually go -- that's a study I'd like to see. But you'll NEVER see it -- because it might actually prove that college is a six-figure scam.

There are over 50,000+ other discussions on this forum. I hope you enjoy them.

If not, good luck at college and with the pending job search. Like college, entrepreneurship is always an option, and a good one if the job economy fails.

Hi MJ. I made a new account because you blocked my previous one from commenting. I also like how you edited the original post title. But , it is your forum, so you do as you please.

I didn't make this post to troll.

I made it because there are people on this forum who genuinely believe that entrepreneurship is the only path to wealth.

I made this post just to say that college isn't evil. We are blessed to live in a place where there are many resources to help us succeed. College is one of them.

If one doesn't need college to succeed, then go for it! I'm just saying that college is another path.

Mj, there are many people on your forum who think that the only way to make a lot of money is to start a business. It's not true. There are other ways to get rich.

If one only wants to retire by their mid 30's with a few million, there are ways to do that without starting a business. Im not saying that starting a business is wrong, Im just saying that its risky to rely on it initially for your financial well-being.

Besides, you don't have to be an entrepreneur or go to college. You can do both, and have the good job and degree to fall back on if it doesnt work out.

I made this post because I CARE. I was very ignorant. I naively thought that business was my only option, and it isn't.

Also, you are absolutely right. There is a systemic discrimination against people without degrees. Which is why it can make sense to have one.

MJ your book has a lot of good info, but I disagree with your viewpoint of college.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MXF_yLYa8j8

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KMLe3eJgbGs


This will be my last thread on the fastlane forum. Wishing you all the best in your future!

 

[ChrisV]

You aren't understanding. There are clear biases with these stats.

The people who are trying to succeed in life are more likely to go further in their education than others since that's what everyone says leads to success. People who don't care about success won't go farther in school.

Also when you graduate with a degree and 6 figures of debt, you work harder at making more money.

Also when you go deep into schooling you are typically going for a specific job that requires that degree, like pharmacist, lawyer, or CPA . The people without the degree can't get those jobs even if they have all of the knowledge.

Also a lot of people in well paying jobs get incentives by their company to go back to school and get better degrees.

Some get direct pay increases instantly when they get a a better degree, think public school teachers.

There's probably more biases that I can't even think of. While those stats are true, they don't paint the whole picture.

If you only saw this graph below, you would think only morons get Bachelor's Degrees.

I’m a Statistician and one of my businesses is a business analytics company. I definitely understand. I already touched on the causality issue in another post.

The question is: Does going to a good college make you successful, or does being successful (in your teen years) make you more likely to get into a top college. This has actually been well studied and the data is actually pretty clear. The answer is the latter; being successful makes you go to a top college. In other words the reason that Harvard grads are so successful is only because Harvard knows how to pick kids who are likely to be successes, not because the quality of the education is so great. I’ve taken some of Harvard’s Data Science classes (and others) and they honestly sucked. I got way better results with classes website run by this russian dude on Udemy and indian dudes that run an analytics site (not kidding.) Their neuroscience classes were embarrassing. Some of their classes were good, but my experience with them has been meh. Anyway, the entire value of an Ivy League education is how selective they are. One Data Science analysis that comes to mind was from Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are where they took kids who went to Harvard vs kids who were accepted and never went (for whatever reason.) Maybe they decided to go to a cheaper school, maybe they wanted to be by a significant other. But the data showed no difference between those who went and those who were accepted. You can also run tests when there’s a sharp cutoff. Stuyvesent High School (the top High School in the US) has a test whee if you pass you get in, if you fail you’re out. So what do you do? If the cutoff is at 700 points you compare the lies of those who scored 699 with those who scored 700. Since there’s no reason to believe the 700ers are much smarter than the 699ers, it’s a good way of comparing people of about equal skill... those who went and those who didn’t. The difference in life success? Nil. Same thing.

Even more, all the studies on this seem to suggest that you can either send a kid off to Harvard or plop him in a library for 4 years and the results will be almost exactly the same. I mean this has been well-researched and the data on this is very clear.

GET TO COLLEGE! (Because I failed at business) - Post 745339


It’s a complex issue, but what you said is partly right. People who go to college just have more driven personalities. But the causality also runs in the other direction. College helps people build skills that are more marketable (try being an economist without training.) So the causality runs in several directions, and it’s not clear if that same person learned from books rather than going to college if their life outcome would be much different. The available evidence seems to suggest ’no.'

 

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[ManlyMansNegator]

I've gotten more practical tips by chilling with folks from uni and networking.

I just wait for them to drink and eat until their mood improves, and the good stuff comes.

Find time to both study and chill. Both are needed ideally. Work harder at whatever you are weak, and wherever you see that a great breakthrough is upcoming. For me, I am putting more time into meetups, as I am weak in that area. Now I am pretty comfortable walking into a room of strangers and getting to know key folks.



Ah, ceteris paribus- all else equal. Judge the samples who have been equalised by the status of entrepreneurship. That way, you won't be forcing a monkey, fish and rhino to test their skills in climbing a tree.

Very important for any statistics theory to have ceteris paribus.


I think it's a good thing for us.

That makes the great workers and innovators easier to spot from the masses.

Fastlane-focused proposals will work even better.

If there was one thing I got from the book Can't Hurt Me (upcoming book to be discussed), it was that it will be easier to win because most folks will be soft.

I can verify the latter myself. I screwed up in science subjects in my Australian Matriculation exams, only to score an 88 ATAR. Turns out the Aussies were leaving behind the STEM subjects in masses, so naturally, the benchmarks dropped.

There are always lots of ways to stand out even in university though. Just need to choose your activities, clubs and programmes carefully.

I subscribe to my student council's email, and there are LOADS of competitions by corporations, ranging from investing to finance simulations to hackathons every month. Even if you don't want to get hired to be a corporate drone, there are channels for networking and making friends with students who are more disciplined enough to put in time towards the competitions.

88 ATAR implies you are in the top 12% of your nation...

 

[ZF Lee]

88 ATAR implies you are in the top 12% of your nation...

Not really nation. It counts for Australian and the folks outside who take the exam.

Australian Matriculation is just the Malaysian/non-Australian equivalent of their Year 12. So, the scoring based on ranking goes across all regions under the exam board, be it WACE, SACE or VCE. The boards aren't exactly different from each other in terms of content, but for exam format, yes. My exam board was WACE (West Australian)

An ATAR score in layman's terms means:
'Speaking in rough terms the number scored by an individual is the percentage of students they 'beat' on the higher school certificate.'

What is an ATAR? A Simple Explanation for Parents, Students and Teachers | Tutoring for Excellence

The ATAR scores would also determine which course you could go to for university. So you had to check all the university pre-requisites. For exampe, Engineering might need an 88-ish ATAR, plus selection of Chemistry and Physics. For Business, it was an 80-85, with a pre-requisite in Maths Applications/Methods. Different unis would have different acceptance ATAR rates, obviously.

I've been on the Australian forums before, and needlessly to say, everyone bitched about shit like 'my school is graded on the lower tier' or 'shall I go do an alternative pathway like TAFE ( sounds something like a GED, in pre-uni terms)'. I just didn't like the mindset that you have a Plan B or C. I subscribe to the notion that if you hit as high a result using your Plan A as much as possible, you won't need a Plan B most of the time, i.e. the 10X rule.

 

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[klix]

Sorry MJ, but I distinctly remember your book shaping my young impressionable mind that job = bad, college = bad. To be fair that’s what I had already thought from other books in the genre, and yours was just another affirmation.

At the end of the day, being an author *is* about controlling the thoughts people take away from your writing. So it’s not correct to try to weasel out by saying people misunderstood... if enough people don’t get it, then the words weren’t put together correctly.

You addressed the faults fastlane had in unscripted , especially with people willing to work a job. So I don’t see why you feel the need to antagonize the OP. Just say yeah, it could have been better explained and move on.

 

[The Abundant Man]

At the end of the day, being an author *is* about influencing the thoughts people take away from your writing.

Fixed for you. It's up to the audience to be influenced by the book. MJ doesn't control other people's thoughts.