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Fantasticlife

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Here is my perspective.

I think that if you're unsure of what you want to to do with your life, you should go to college until you figure it out.

I love MJ's book, but one issue I have with it is his hatred of college education and getting a job.

The millionaire fastlane claims that there are 3 financial paths: the sidewalk, the slowlane, and the fastlane. The destination is financial freedom.

If one could paint a metaphor , financial freedom is a destination that is 100 miles away. The sidewalk is like standing still. The slowlane is like walking. The fastlane is like building a bicycle or a car.

But there is one path that isn't included here. Running.

The days where people would just get a job for $15 and work that job until age 65 are gone. There are MANY scripted paths one could take to retire by age 35-40.
I know many people in their early /mid 20's making upwards of 250K. One could easily retire a millionaire by their early 30's with a pair of golden handcuffs.

Some people might think"Why?" Why would someone want to spend their youngest years working for someone else? Why wouldn't they just start a business and make a lot of money way faster?

Think about the tortoise and the hare. The tortoise goes slow and steady. The hare get's cocky, and falls behind in the race.

If you're young and don't know what to do, going to college until you figure it out can be a great plan.

Also, if your goal is to be an entrepreneur, going to college can give you access to a ton of resources that you may not have access to if you don't go.

Entrepreneurship is NOT the only path to wealth. It is an alternative path, and probably the hardest.
 

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ZF Lee

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Also, if your goal is to be an entrepreneur, going to college can give you access to a ton of resources that you may not have access to if you don't go.
Yup, free talks and meetups.

Had many a session, meeting with tax experts, actual entrepreneurs and even bank officers sharing their insights.

And don't forget free engineering software.

And free access to legal journals (I took a business law course). Me thinks the latter is helpful for at least freelance legal work (that is, if you can read the legal cases without glazing over)
 

Zcott

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I too loved MJ's book and he hits the nail on the head about it being a script of school > college > job > 45 years later > retire. Like people do it without thinking because that's what everyone else is doing. But I didn't completely agree about college/university being a waste of time and money. That's because I have the view that the more educated people are the better society we live in, and the argument about piling on debt was quite US-centric and won't apply to everyone.
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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I think going to college with no idea of what you want is a recipe for disappointment and mountains of debt.

As for taking a slowlane approach and retiring by 35-40, yes it’s possible. It’s called FIRE (Fincancialy Independent or Retire Early).

The FIRE crowd are optimizing for saving money, with the hope of retiring early-er...

The issue is that those middle-laners planning to retire at 40 are living frugal lives with 2 weeks of vacation a year and are at the mercy of other people’s decisions for the next 20 years.

If you can lose your income source because someone got hot coffee spilled on them that morning, does that sound like a good option?

The Fastlane flips the entire narrative on its head and asks, what if I optimize for freedom and control instead?

And as we’ve seen many times before here is that the recipe works.

Just look at @Andy Black, he doesn’t own a multi-million dollar business yet he has freedom and happiness and loves what he does.

But most importantly, he has control. He is the driver of his life.
 
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Fantasticlife

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I too loved MJ's book and he hits the nail on the head about it being a script of school > college > job > 45 years later > retire. Like people do it without thinking because that's what everyone else is doing. But I didn't completely agree about college/university being a waste of time and money. That's because I have the view that the more educated people are the better society we live in, and the argument about piling on debt was quite US-centric and won't apply to everyone.
Yeah. I read Mj's book a few years ago and decide not to go to college, trying to start a few businesses. It didnt work out, and I seriously regret not going. But it's ok. I can still go now.
 

MJ DeMarco

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I love MJ's book, but one issue I have with it is his hatred of college education and getting a job.
Nice strawman bro, I don't have a hatred for a college education or a job. But if it makes you feel better "thinking" I think I hate college and jobs, well, OK.
 
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Fantasticlife

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I think going to college with no idea of what you want is a recipe for disappointment and mountains of debt.

As for taking a slowlane approach and retiring by 35-40, yes it’s possible. It’s called FIRE (Fincancialy Independent or Retire Early).

The FIRE crowd are optimizing for saving money, with the hope of retiring early-er...

The issue is that those slowlaners planning to retire at 40 are living frugal lives with 2 weeks of vacation a year and are at the mercy of other people’s decisions for the next 20 years.

If you can lose your income source because someone got hot coffee spilled on them that morning, does that sound like a good option?

The Fastlane flips the entire narrative on its head and asks, what if I optimize for freedom and control instead?

And as we’ve seen many times before here is that the recipe works.

Just look at @Andy Black, he doesn’t own a multi-million dollar business yet he has freedom and happiness and loves what he does.

But most importantly, he has control. He is the driver of his life.
I too loved MJ's book and he hits the nail on the head about it being a script of school > college > job > 45 years later > retire. Like people do it without thinking because that's what everyone else is doing. But I didn't completely agree about college/university being a waste of time and money. That's because I have the view that the more educated people are the better society we live in, and the argument about piling on debt was quite US-centric and won't apply to everyone.
Also, one of the fastlane commandments is ENTRY. Education can be a big barrier to entry.
I mean think about it. Who's business is harder to compete with; the pizza shop around the corner or the 32-year old doctor's biotech medical device startup?
 

MTEE1985

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Here is my perspective.

I think that if you're unsure of what you want to to do with your life, you should go to college until you figure it out.

I love MJ's book, but one issue I have with it is his hatred of college education and getting a job.

The millionaire fastlane claims that there are 3 financial paths: the sidewalk, the slowlane, and the fastlane. The destination is financial freedom.

If one could paint a metaphor , financial freedom is a destination that is 100 miles away. The sidewalk is like standing still. The slowlane is like walking. The fastlane is like building a bicycle or a car.

But there is one path that isn't included here. Running.

The days where people would just get a job for $15 and work that job until age 65 are gone. There are MANY scripted paths one could take to retire by age 35-40.
I know many people in their early /mid 20's making upwards of 250K. One could easily retire a millionaire by their early 30's with a pair of golden handcuffs.

Some people might think"Why?" Why would someone want to spend their youngest years working for someone else? Why wouldn't they just start a business and make a lot of money way faster?

Think about the tortoise and the hare. The tortoise goes slow and steady. The hare get's cocky, and falls behind in the race.

If you're young and don't know what to do, going to college until you figure it out can be a great plan.

Also, if your goal is to be an entrepreneur, going to college can give you access to a ton of resources that you may not have access to if you don't go.

Entrepreneurship is NOT the only path to wealth. It is an alternative path, and probably the hardest.
This topic has been discussed (borderline ad naseum) here many times. 99% of the forum members are pro college, MJ included. The “hatred” is the illusion that “any degree is better than no degree” which leads to people majoring in gender studies while accumulating $160,000 in loan debt with their best job prospect post graduation being Starbucks.

MJ had several jobs in the entrepreneurial process which he details in both books.

As far as people earning 6 figures in their early 20’s...not uncommon but far from the majority.

It’s beginning to look a lot like landfill in here.
 

Royce2

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If you go to college for the SCRIPTED reasons, to then get a steady job and all that. College is completely stupid. Ironically, I am going to a online university for a bachelors in computer science. I am going there to simply force myself, it's a way of disciplining myself to learn the content so that I can then use it for my UNSCRIPTED purposes. To start a software company and more.

Its a self paced system that splits into terms. 1 term = 6 months. You pay a flat rate of $3,500 per term to cram in as much classes as you can. I'm already done with two and I'm only on week 3. I can just take complacency tests if I feel as if I have a good grasp on the subject and skip the entire class in itself! Very awesome system if you ask me. WGU online, check it out.

College is a huge waste of time/money/everything else if you have no plan of unscripting yourself.
 

Zcott

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The point isn't that going to college is stupid, the point is that going to college because that's what you think you have to do because everyone else is is stupid.

You can still go to college, learn a valuable and hard skill which pays a lot which can help you become unscripted. The destination is the same, just the path a little different. And education in general benefits you and everyone else. I've no doubt that MJ benefited greatly from his college education. So the point isn't going to college is stupid, the point, I think, is going because it's part of life's script is stupid.
 

TonyStark

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Yup, free talks and meetups.

Had many a session, meeting with tax experts, actual entrepreneurs and even bank officers sharing their insights.

And don't forget free engineering software.

And free access to legal journals (I took a business law course). Me thinks the latter is helpful for at least freelance legal work (that is, if you can read the legal cases without glazing over)
One doesn’t simply enroll in university and get free stuff....

Unless your university is free.

If it isn’t, then you’re paying for all of that. Lol
 

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jthomas2121

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Here is my perspective.

I think that if you're unsure of what you want to to do with your life, you should go to college until you figure it out.

I love MJ's book, but one issue I have with it is his hatred of college education and getting a job.

The millionaire fastlane claims that there are 3 financial paths: the sidewalk, the slowlane, and the fastlane. The destination is financial freedom.

If one could paint a metaphor , financial freedom is a destination that is 100 miles away. The sidewalk is like standing still. The slowlane is like walking. The fastlane is like building a bicycle or a car.

But there is one path that isn't included here. Running.

The days where people would just get a job for $15 and work that job until age 65 are gone. There are MANY scripted paths one could take to retire by age 35-40.
I know many people in their early /mid 20's making upwards of 250K. One could easily retire a millionaire by their early 30's with a pair of golden handcuffs.

Some people might think"Why?" Why would someone want to spend their youngest years working for someone else? Why wouldn't they just start a business and make a lot of money way faster?

Think about the tortoise and the hare. The tortoise goes slow and steady. The hare get's cocky, and falls behind in the race.

If you're young and don't know what to do, going to college until you figure it out can be a great plan.

Also, if your goal is to be an entrepreneur, going to college can give you access to a ton of resources that you may not have access to if you don't go.

Entrepreneurship is NOT the only path to wealth. It is an alternative path, and probably the hardest.
Great post and I agree, and I would add one caveat to those who would go to college to find their passion: choose community/junior colleges for the first couple years. A lot cheaper to go through the requirements.
 

Yzn

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I believe this thing happens all the time when we read books, it's like we understand what we want to understand. And another thing, we always blame the author for our failures in some way or another. I've done it a million times and a lot of people around me always do it lol...
 
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Fantasticlife

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I believe this thing happens all the time when we read books, it's like we understand what we want to understand. And another thing, we always blame the author for our failures in some way or another. I've done it a million times and a lot of people around me always do it lol...
Please don't get me wrong. @MJDemarco I am not blaming you for my failures. I just don't want any 18 year olds to make the same mistakes that I made. Im talking to my younger self.
 

JG17

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I actually think this is the worst thing one can do. Here's my story which hopefully explains why.

I live and work in the UK. I don't know what's it's like in the US, but I specifically didn't go to college (university) for the sake of it or just in case. These were the only justifications I could think of for going, and I actually decided these were the worst reasons for going I could possibly have. If I had gone, the chances are I wouldn't have taken it seriously. I would have slacked off, lazed around all day missing lectures to play video games until 3am, but achieved a decent standard grade through last minute cramming and inherent intelligence. When I finished I'd have been in massive debt and thrown into the huge pool of graduates going for the same small pool of jobs, and financially behind those who went straight into work.

And that's what I done. I got a job straight after A Levels (which for my American friends is the year prior to going to college), and it took just one year of working when I was 20 years old for me to decide this is F*cking awful, I hate it and have to get out but thank god I didn't pay £50k to find out the expensive way.

If you don't know what to do I suggest going straight into work and figuring it out, rather than going to college and figuring it out (assuming you don't live in a society where not going to college rules you out for life). That way at least you're improving your financial position rather than saddling yourself with huge debt only to decide to go down a path which never required a degree in the first place.
 
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Fantasticlife

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I actually think this is the worst thing one can do. Here's my story which hopefully explains why.

I live and work in the UK. I don't know what's it's like in the US, but I specifically didn't go to college (university) for the sake of it or just in case. These were the only justifications I could think of for going, and I actually decided these were the worst reasons for going I could possibly have. If I had gone, the chances are I wouldn't have taken it seriously. I would have slacked off, lazed around all day missing lectures to play video games until 3am, but achieved a decent standard grade through last minute cramming and inherent intelligence. When I finished I'd have been in massive debt and thrown into the huge pool of graduates going for the same small pool of jobs, and financially behind those who went straight into work.

And that's what I done. I got a job straight after A Levels (which for my American friends is the year prior to going to college), and it took just one year of working when I was 20 years old for me to decide this is f*cking awful, I hate it and have to get out but thank god I didn't pay £50k to find out the expensive way.

If you don't know what to do I suggest going straight into work and figuring it out, rather than going to college and figuring it out (assuming you don't live in a society where not going to college rules you out for life). That way at least you're improving your financial position rather than saddling yourself with huge debt only to decide to go down a path which never required a degree in the first place.
Without a college degree, you are cutting yourself off from working in a wide variety of industries.
One of the traditional ways of becoming wealthy is to get a job in an industry, learn it really well, and then start a business based on that industry, eg. Become an accountant, start an accounting firm, build accounting software.
Even if you're just trying to make a living off of salary, college grads make more than non-college grads.
A 22 year old software engineer with little skill and a CS degree is more likely to be hired than an engineer with no degree and 10 years of experience
 

Sam Kennedy

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I definitely agree. I was questioning whether my time at university was worth it. I'm studying Computer Science and my course was 4 years: 2 years of uni + 1 year industrial placement + final year (which I'm now in).

I was annoyed that I learned more in my year in industry than the first two years of university, and I wasn't sure if I'd enjoy going back. However multiple opportunities have opened up:

1) For my dissertation I'm doing a machine learning project, so I'm developing skills in data science and deep learning/AI. I would have maybe skimmed the surface of this topic out of interest, but not have gone as deep into the subject as I have now.
2) I really enjoyed a module which I had, and after speaking with the lecturer I'm now helping with the design of a safety critical medical device. This is experience I would unlikely gain anywhere else.
3) From my year in industry I started working on a side project with my team on an app/game which has had very positive feedback, and even though I don't work there anymore I actually got permission to still work on evenings with my old team on evenings.
4) From my experience working for a different company prior to uni, I've actually formed a joint venture between myself, that company and another with very promising prospects.

It appears that all the value for my course is crammed into the final year, and I really hope I don't come across as bragging, I just wanted to illustrate the point that opportunities can open up from both employment and higher education. I'm pretty sure MJ has said before that a job/college isn't bad, it's only bad if that's your only plan.
 
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Fantasticlife

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Dec 20, 2018
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I actually think this is the worst thing one can do. Here's my story which hopefully explains why.

I live and work in the UK. I don't know what's it's like in the US, but I specifically didn't go to college (university) for the sake of it or just in case. These were the only justifications I could think of for going, and I actually decided these were the worst reasons for going I could possibly have. If I had gone, the chances are I wouldn't have taken it seriously. I would have slacked off, lazed around all day missing lectures to play video games until 3am, but achieved a decent standard grade through last minute cramming and inherent intelligence. When I finished I'd have been in massive debt and thrown into the huge pool of graduates going for the same small pool of jobs, and financially behind those who went straight into work.

And that's what I done. I got a job straight after A Levels (which for my American friends is the year prior to going to college), and it took just one year of working when I was 20 years old for me to decide this is f*cking awful, I hate it and have to get out but thank god I didn't pay £50k to find out the expensive way.

If you don't know what to do I suggest going straight into work and figuring it out, rather than going to college and figuring it out (assuming you don't live in a society where not going to college rules you out for life). That way at least you're improving your financial position rather than saddling yourself with huge debt only to decide to go down a path which never required a degree in the first place.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7yU4VhKpPyM
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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.A 22 year old software engineer with little skill and a CS degree is more likely to be hired than an engineer with no degree and 10 years of experience
Well that’s just not true.

The 10 year should have a healthy portfolio of work/experience and current knowledge of the industry. Not to mention he’s sold himself well in the interview because he’s done it for the past 10 years. Plus team and communication skills.

It’s like hiring a fresh art degree grad as a tattoo artist over someone with a 500 page book of work and happy customers.

Smh
 
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Fantasticlife

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Nice strawman bro, I don't have a hatred for a college education or a job. But if it makes you feel better "thinking" I think I hate college and jobs, well, OK.
'College was a five-year prenatal employee brainwashing with graduation as the overrated climax'
'
Well that’s just not true.

The 10 year should have a healthy portfolio of work/experience and current knowledge of the industry. Not to mention he’s sold himself well in the interview because he’s done it for the past 10 years. Plus team and communication skills.

It’s like hiring a fresh art degree grad as a tattoo artist over someone with a 500 page book of work and happy customers.

Smh
Does it make sense? No. But sometimes HR doesnt know any better .
 

ChrisV

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99% of the forum members are pro college,
Yea okay. The anti-academia rhetoric around here is literally palpable among a decent group of members.

To OP: I don’t think MJ has anything against college.

And you dont necessarily need college to be successful. I do a lot of work for Academia with Harvard Grads, Yale Phds, etc despite my relative lack of formal education. If you can get the job done, people will want you.

Here’s the issue.... the universities have gone further and further left as times went on. Now it’s just a liberal shitshow with a number of useless degrees. Gender Studies. Woman Studies. I mean if you’re going into the STEM fields you’re safe, but the humanities? omfg STAY OUT. I’d say stay OUT of almost ALL liberal arts degrees until this university mess is sorted out. It’s a weird time for the Academies. You can get an English Lit degree without EVER having read Sheakespeare. Why? Post-modern philosophy believes that all art is subjective, so a painting that looks like someone had the hershey squirts with a paint can is just as valuable as a rembrandt, because they believe in some BS equality around art.

But I whole heartedly agree with the original post. If you don’t know what you want, go to a cheap state school. People straw man with “mountains of debt”... I live in NY and going to ANY state school is completely tuition free. Even in other states state school or community college is ultra cheap (1000-2000/semester.) But also, if you’re fortunate enough to get into one of the Ivies like Harvard or Yale GO. If you’re getting accepted into Ivy League or any Top 10 schools(like University of Chicago) you’ve probably got “success” written all over your future anyway. Those schools are amazing at picking out people who will be successful, and the irony is they pick people who would have been successful with or without college (that’s statistically proven.)

My suggestion? Either go for the Gold (Top 10 school) or go the bronze (State school/community college) Why? The middle tier schools basically cost just as much as the Ivies! So if you’re gonna rack up that debt, eff it... go to Stanford. Don’t rack up a bunch of debt going to a mediocre school.

But college is a great place to find yourself. It’s a great place to challenge your preconceived notions. As long as it’s not some liberal shitshow like East and West Coast universities. I recommend looking into a website called Heterodox Academy, who rates political biases of universities (which is a major issue these days)


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Fastlane Liam

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Do you have to go to college to be knowledgeable at something?
Sure if you're going into the working world you need that piece of paper to prove it,
But in Business? Not one bit. People pay for results
 

MJ DeMarco

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'College was a five-year prenatal employee brainwashing with graduation as the overrated climax'
'
Sorry, but my statement of experience doesn't translate into "I hate college and jobs".

Quit making shit up so you can sound intellectually enlightened -- it weakens your argument to those who know better, an argument I actually agree with dependent on the circumstances and the individual.

But life is like that isn't it? Nothing is absolute, ONE SIZE FITS ALL, which is why "Get to College!" is factually derelict, just like "Avoid College!" is equally as well.
 

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@MJ DeMarco, just out of curiosity what was your degree in? I’ve always been curious since a lot of your work is in line with Economic and Business School theories (I mean that in a good way,) in comparison to a lot of these crappy business books that talk about Law of Attraction flapidoodle.
 

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ChrisV

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Okay, I really feel a need to put this college/job vs self-education/entrepreneurship subject to rest.

Okay, In psychology there’s a personality scale called the Big 5. Two of those metrics are Conscientiousness and Openness to Experience. Conscientiousness people are orderly, enjoy structure and like social hierarchies. For those types of people, college and a formal job is where it’s at! It’s perfect for them. They crave that type of daily structure. They like being to work at 8:50 (10 minutes early) and leaving at 5:01. Why? Because their personalities just need structure. College and a job is part of the structure.

Now people who are lower on conscientiousness? They hate rules. They think that rules inhibit them. These people are much more likely to be libertarians, another group that dislikes rules. They’re also more likely to be entrepreneurs because the ‘structure’ of a 9-5 drives them nuts. They want to do things on their terms and innovate.

The second personality trait that determines if you’ll choose the career or entrepreneurship path is Openness to Experience. These people like doing new things. They’re creative and they like novelty.

Not everyone dislikes the whole 9-5 thing. Some people need it. They like to follow rules. The other type of person can’t stand the 9-5 thing. They like to break little rules and social norms in the search for innovation.

What you prefer is really a matter of your temperament.

So it’s really a matter of ‘different strokes for different folks.'
 

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Yeah. I read Mj's book a few years ago and decide not to go to college, trying to start a few businesses. It didnt work out, and I seriously regret not going. But it's ok. I can still go now.
Just within the last 72 hours, how have you tried to change lanes?
 

minivanman

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Okay, I really feel a need to put this college/job vs self-education/entrepreneurship subject to rest.

Okay, In psychology there’s a personality scale called the Big 5. Two of those metrics are Conscientiousness and Openness to Experience. Conscientiousness people are orderly, enjoy structure and like social hierarchies. For those types of people, college and a formal job is where it’s at! It’s perfect for them. They crave that type of daily structure. They like being to work at 8:50 (10 minutes early) and leaving at 5:01. Why? Because their personalities just need structure. College and a job is part of the structure.

Now people who are lower on conscientiousness? They hate rules. They think that rules inhibit them. These people are much more likely to be libertarians, another group that dislikes rules. They’re also more likely to be entrepreneurs because the ‘structure’ of a 9-5 drives them nuts. They want to do things on their terms and innovate.

The second personality trait that determines if you’ll choose the career or entrepreneurship path is Openness to Experience. These people like doing new things. They’re creative and they like novelty.

Not everyone dislikes the whole 9-5 thing. Some people need it. They like to follow rules. The other type of person can’t stand the 9-5 thing. They like to break little rules and social norms in the search for innovation.

What you prefer is really a matter of your temperament.

So it’s really a matter of ‘different strokes for different folks.'
It is, and without different strokes, like was said in another thread.... who would be the worker bees? My Dr. Pepper is not going to make itself....
 

Tidder Jail

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Nov 21, 2018
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Brazil
If you go to college for the SCRIPTED reasons, to then get a steady job and all that. College is completely stupid. Ironically, I am going to a online university for a bachelors in computer science. I am going there to simply force myself, it's a way of disciplining myself to learn the content so that I can then use it for my UNSCRIPTED purposes. To start a software company and more.

Its a self paced system that splits into terms. 1 term = 6 months. You pay a flat rate of $3,500 per term to cram in as much classes as you can. I'm already done with two and I'm only on week 3. I can just take complacency tests if I feel as if I have a good grasp on the subject and skip the entire class in itself! Very awesome system if you ask me. WGU online, check it out.

College is a huge waste of time/money/everything else if you have no plan of unscripting yourself.
Hey man i'm also learning CS, is there any place where we can talk? Let's exchange some ideas
 

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