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robertwills

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Really? Are the people who don't want to get the vaccine afraid that they will die of covid? The chances are absolutely miniscule for nearly everyone. Those in extreme risk groups should probably get it, and the rest of the population? Why? They can get covid and obtain natural immunities.
Yes, minus a high risk of "long haul" symptoms, some of which include serious neurological and cardiovascular conditions.
 

GIlman

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@robertwills I don’t think Fauci’s lie was that masks didn’t work. The lie is that masks do work. The body of clinical research bears this out. I think that’s why he continuously leans on wearing masks as “common sense” not “the data says”. Because the data says the opposite.


Here is a summary article from Cambridge on the research. Although there are studies that show a theoretical effect in the lab, when you look at the studies that actually looked at mask wearing in actual people, there was no effect.

These studies were all looking at influenza, which although not Covid is similar in size and route of transmission.

There was a large Danish study in mask wearing for Covid. It did not show a statically significant benefit.


On the flip side, there are other studies also showing harm, particularly in children, due to CO2 exposure. The level of CO2 accumulation from wearing a mask can exceed federal industrial CO2 exposure limits. EDIT...I just looked up this study again and it has been retracted, although no explanation of why, but presumably something is wrong with the design, collection, or conclusion so it doesn't provide meaningful information.

This is just one example of many where the official recommendations fly in the face of the actual science.

As a general rule, anytime Fauci or some other scientist says “it’s common sense”, I assume it’s a lie or they don’t know and are blowing smoke up my butt. Good science is not based on common sense, it’s based on data that proves the effect.
 
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robertwills

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I'm afraid not, my friend.

Even Fauci admitted in an early email that "The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through the material."

Here's the email from a recent Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request.

View attachment 39034
The subject of masks, particularly in relation to Covid, is very confusing. Covid infections can be asymptomatic and masks, if the right material and worn correctly, can prevent the spread of the virus even if one is asymptomatic. Certain masks, like the N95, when worn correctly, protect the wearer and others around them.

Virologists have known for 100 years that masks offer a good measure of protection against the spreading of germs, bacteria and viruses. Why do you think they wear them in the operating room and in situations when caring for virus patients?

So there is no doubt in my opinion what they were saying at the beginning of the pandemic, that masks don't offer any benefit, was a lie. The didn't want all the supplies being bought up and the vital health care working with limited or no supply. That may have been a far worse disaster. Once supply became plentiful all of a sudden masks were recommended.

To make matters even more confusing there's things that were learned in the meantime such as which materials and styles work better, that many masks from China were not as effective as per specifications and that basic three ply masks may offer some protection for wearers. Then there were studies from like the Nordic country(s) that showed that masks were minimal in preventing the spread.
 

robertwills

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@robertwills I don’t think Fauci’s lie was that masks didn’t work. The lie is that masks do work. The body of clinical research bears this out. I think that’s why he continuously leans on wearing masks as “common sense” not “the data says”. Because the data says the opposite.


Here is a summary article from Cambridge on the research. Although there are studies that show a theoretical effect in the lab, when you look at the studies that actually looked at mask wearing in actual people, there was no effect.

These studies were all looking at influenza, which although not Covid is similar in size and route of transmission.

There was a large Danish study in mask wearing for Covid. It did not show a statically significant benefit.


On the flip side, there are other studies also showing harm, particularly in children, due to CO2 exposure. The level of CO2 accumulation from wearing a mask can exceed federal industrial CO2 exposure limits.

This is just one example of many where the official recommendations fly in the face of the actual science.
The lie is that masks do work? Then why would they be mandating the public wear them? Why have surgeons been wearing masks for 100+ years? They found out that by wearing them the infection rate went down. Certainly they found out that by cleaning their hands and instruments infections were greatly reduced.
 

GIlman

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The lie is that masks do work? Then why would they be mandating the public wear them? Why have surgeons been wearing masks for 100+ years? They found out that by wearing them the infection rate went down. Certainly they found out that by cleaning their hands and instruments infections were greatly reduced.
Surgical infections are bacterial not viral which transmit by different route. Bacteria are also massive in size compared to a virus, bacteria can be seen with a normal microscope using lenses…viruses require an electron microscope because they are so tiny.

It’s the equivalent of saying that a volleyball net can catch a volleyball, so therefore a volleyball net can catch a pea.

So any comparison without actual data is nonsense. I presented you some data so please comment on why the data is wrong.
 
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robertwills

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Surgical infections are bacterial not viral which transmit by different route. Bacteria are also massive in size compared to a virus, bacteria can be seen with a normal microscope using lenses…viruses require an electron microscope because they are so tiny.

It’s the equivalent of saying that a volleyball net can catch a volleyball, so therefore a volleyball net can catch a pea.

So any comparison without actual data is nonsense. I presented you some data so please comment on why the data is wrong.
I think when discussing this subject, including referencing studies, you need to be very precise. Saliva and mucous from a covid or other virial infected person, can be projected out of the body by coughing and sneezing. This fluid can be caught to an extent by a face barrier, like a mask, thereby reducing a viral load in the outside environment. That reduction can be the difference between infecting another person(s) or not.

I do not claim to know all the facts that are known about masks, viruses medicine, etc. but it definitely is my belief that the public was lied to about masks at the beginning of the pandemic for the public good.
 

Kak

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It's so bad, it'd make @Kak want to pay taxes staying in Texas. LOL.
If I could just stay here and wear a mask to pay 4 percent federal income tax, I would, everywhere I go, until I die. Which would likely be sooner because I’d also start drinking.

:rofl:
 

YanC

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Also, not sure if right now as well, but last time I was there (November to December last year), Spanish people were some of the most "well-behaved" citizens as in they were OBSESSED about wearing masks. As far as I know, to this day many still wear them even though they're no longer mandatory outdoors. Southern Spain was a bit more lax in this aspect than northern Spain, though, but overall, the country was beaten into submission with their harsh lockdowns.

Went hiking in the Spanish side of the Pyrenees in October, seeing them wearing masks while hiking in the mountains is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in my life.
 
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Timmy C

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Went hiking in the Spanish side of the Pyrenees in October, seeing them wearing masks while hiking in the mountains was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in my life.
I was on the way home seeing people wear masks exercising and walking.

People even in cars....

I hate to admit it, but my dad just called me and told me that people at the chemist weren't wearing masks.

He thinks it's wrong and wanted to tell the police.

I didn't know what to say....

Just f*cking sad state of affairs to be honest.
 

Madame Peccato

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In fairness, all you can say from VAERS is that 12, 313 deaths occurred AFTER the vaccine, you can't specifically say it was FROM the vaccine. Around 8,000 people die a day in the US, certainly when you vaccinate 150 million people some with die after receiving the vaccine that would have died even if they hadn't received the vaccine.

But, the concerning thing is that in the few months of the Covid vaccine, there are more deaths after Covid vaccine than all other vaccines combined over the past 30 years.

Also, it is estimated that only about 1% of deaths and side effects occurring after vaccination are reported in the VAERS database, because it is a purely voluntary reporting system, and the vast majority of issues are never suspected of being from the vaccine or reported in the VAERS system. So say only 400 of the 12,300 reported deaths were actually from the vaccine, that would mean that in reality there would be 40,000 (400 x 100) deaths with 99% unreported.

Allegedly (I don't know how verifiable this is, I'm not from the US), a whistleblower filed a sworn statement that claims vaccine deaths are around 45.000:

It is my professional estimate that VAERS (the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) database, while extremely useful, is under-reported by a conservative factor of at least 5. On July 9, 2021, there were 9,048 deaths reported in VAERS. I verified these numbers by collating all of the data from VAERS myself, not relying on a third party to report them. In tandem, I queried data from CMS medical claims with regard to vaccines and patient deaths, and have assessed that the deaths occurring within 3 days of vaccination are higher than those reported in VAERS by a factor of at least 5. This would indicate the true number of vaccine-related deaths was at least 45,000. Put in perspective, the swine flu vaccine was taken off the market which only resulted in 53 deaths.
This statement is attached to the covid lawsuit you linked earlier.

A word of caution: we don't know if what's said is true or not. I'm just reporting what I found. It could be fake for all I know.
 

Timmy C

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Allegedly (I don't know how verifiable this is, I'm not from the US), a whistleblower filed a sworn statement that claims vaccine deaths are around 45.000:


This statement is attached to the covid lawsuit you linked earlier.

A word of caution: we don't know if what's said is true or not. I'm just reporting what I found. It could be fake for all I know.
Yeh, we don't know, but there is enough evidence already and reasonable doubt to at the very least delay getting the vax for as long as possible.
 

srodrigo

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CDC march 2020: Masks don't prevent transmission! It doesn't spread through air!

CDC Nov 2020: Masks play a big role in preventing transmission. The primary way of spreading is through the air!

Yea, I'm sure Americans should be trusting the CDC at this point.

Not.
It's called science. It evolves as scientists get to study a new virus and learn how it works.
 

srodrigo

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The dude Fauci straight up lied about masks and admitted the fact.
Not sure what dude is that. AFAIK most scientists agree that masks do work to reduce the spread. You'll always find alternate opinions about any topic though. And "experts" who shouldn't even be professionals in whatever field.
 

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Not to be a party pooper but this thread was supposed to be about discussing places that appreciate entrepreneurs and job providers (and in general offer better opportunities for freedom-loving people), not about the vaccine...
 

Timmy C

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Not to be a party pooper but this thread was supposed to be about discussing places that appreciate entrepreneurs and job providers (and in general offer better opportunities for freedom-loving people), not about the vaccine...
True that mate.

So far it sounds like Mexico is a good candidate for freedoms and liberty in comparison now.

I looked up the city @GPM told me about.

It looks really cool.
 

MTF

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True that mate.

So far it sounds like Mexico is a good candidate for freedoms and liberty in comparison now.

I looked up the city @GPM told me about.

It looks really cool.

My friend lives there (in Mérida). Overall he enjoys it but summers can get unbearably hot, 35 degrees Celsius (95 F) during the day and humidity between 60-70%. A lot of expats (particularly Canadians) tend to choose Progreso up north which is a port city with a cooler climate and beach town vibes.
 

GPM

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I use Progreso (and the surrounding towns) and Mérida interchangeably. Progreso is 20 min north of the city and on the coast, so it gets a nice breeze from the ocean that can sort of cool stuff off. It is also 45 minutes from the historic center of Mérida.

My sister-in-law used to live in the south side of Mérida so we spent a lot of time in the city, but now we spend our time in the town beside Progreso called Chixculub. You can't tell where one ends and the other begins, but the market and most of the little stores and stuff are closer to the center of Progreso.

It was odd being in Progreso/chixculub this time as nearly everything was closed. I am not sure if it is because it was June/July and all the tourists had already left and so it's seasonal closings, or if it was due to covid stuff. Merida was still absolutely bustling though.

Yes the area gets crazy hot, and the temperature barely drops at night. However, don't be some a**hole blasting AC all day long in your home and you get used to it pretty quickly. Just take lots of showers (usually the water is ambient temperature so it just feels really refreshing) and bring lots of shirts with you.

That area is also an amazing hub close to some of the most beautiful archeological sites and ruins, as well as lots of cenotes. Now is an amazing time to check out lots of pyramids as many of them you are still allowed to climb. I imagine it is only a matter of time until they are all like Chichén Itzá where you can no longer even touch it. I found Chichén Itzá to be overly touristy and underwhelming due to all that. There is a super crazy cenote right near there called Ik Kil which was awesome to swim in. There are supposed to be a ton of cenotes to explore in that area around Valladolid but when I was there my wife was 7 or so months pregnant and not much in the exploring mood.
 

Kak

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Not to be a party pooper but this thread was supposed to be about discussing places that appreciate entrepreneurs and job providers (and in general offer better opportunities for freedom-loving people), not about the vaccine...
Is Mars or the moon an option yet? Earth sucks.
 

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My friend lives there (in Mérida). Overall he enjoys it but summers can get unbearably hot, 35 degrees Celsius (95 F) during the day and humidity between 60-70%. A lot of expats (particularly Canadians) tend to choose Progreso up north which is a port city with a cooler climate and beach town vibes.

Mérida was our first choice until the implications of the climate thing dawned. Cyprus gets just as hot but not on a relentless year-round basis. So heading for Puerto Vallarta instead.

Now you can't even get into the supermarket here without showing a vaccine paper or proof of a negative test in the past 72hrs. They have guards on the door checking. Naturally they are stopping the free tests in August so you literally have to pay for a test to buy food. From paradise to dystopia in under 18 months.
 

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Mérida was our first choice until the implications of the climate thing dawned. Cyprus gets just as hot but not on a relentless year-round basis. So heading for Puerto Vallarta instead.

Now you can't even get into the supermarket here without showing a vaccine paper or proof of a negative test in the past 72hrs. They have guards on the door checking. Naturally they are stopping the free tests in August so you literally have to pay for a test to buy food. From paradise to dystopia in under 18 months.
This is in Puerto Vallarta or Cyprus???? I'm guessing Cyprus...
 

robertwills

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Mérida was our first choice until the implications of the climate thing dawned. Cyprus gets just as hot but not on a relentless year-round basis. So heading for Puerto Vallarta instead.

Now you can't even get into the supermarket here without showing a vaccine paper or proof of a negative test in the past 72hrs. They have guards on the door checking. Naturally they are stopping the free tests in August so you literally have to pay for a test to buy food. From paradise to dystopia in under 18 months.
You don't have to pay for any more tests if you get vaccinated.
 

Mike Partee

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You don't have to pay for any more tests if you get vaccinated.
Or get a fake — Costs 10 bucks for cardstock paper and a print. Find templates online.

And if you think that's f*cked up, you're f*cked up.
 

robertwills

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For anyone wondering if there are cures for Covid. Take a look at America's Frontline Doctors. According to them, there are.

I would paste the link of their website here but I'm not sure If thats permitted
I looked them up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I was very hesitant to take the vaccine but I did my own research and listened to my doctor. It's a risk I felt I should take. I felt relieved when I and my family was fully vaccinated.
 

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