Fed Up With Your Country? Where Is Left to Go?

[GIlman]

I feel like both sides of the political spectrum are manipulating us to their will at this point.

Right/left it doesn't matter, the end result is your rights are gone and both want you to buy into their ideology.

The lawsuit that @GIlman brought to our attention, that looks damning, but, we do not know if those are facts. I am not a doctor or a scientist. who knows if spike protein is bad? No one knows that isn't a doctor or scientist I would imagine, it's on the doctors to inform or LIE to the public on if it is good or bad.

I know the guy who leads these blokes Children's Health Defense had a big part in this injunction THAT @GIlman linked to earlier, but when I looked into the site months ago it was found to be a propaganda website. (*BASED ON FACT CHECKERS SO WHO THE FARK KNOWS)

Here is the relevant research about the spike protein being able to cause damage by itself.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902

Here is an article from the Salk institute about the spike protein that is more readable than the research paper.

The novel coronavirus’ spike protein plays additional key role in illness - Salk Institute for Biological Studies

LA JOLLA—Scientists have known for a while that SARS-CoV-2’s distinctive “spike” proteins help the virus infect its host by latching on to healthy cells. Now, a major new study shows that the virus spike proteins (which behave very differently than those safely encoded by vaccines) also play a...

www.salk.edu

There were some changes to the spike protein in vaccines, as I recall they added some sugar molecules to some of the bindings sites, and that is assumed to make the spike protein safe, at least it's not 100% the same as natural spike protein. But as far as I am aware there has been no follow-up research with the vaccine spike proteins to see if it also is toxic to cells.

However, there are now known complications of heart inflammation, blood clotting in the brain causing a rare type of stroke called Dural sinus thrombosis, etc....why do these things occur, there is no explanation I have found to date and it seems likely that it is from circulating spike protein.

Myocarditis following COVID-19 mRNA vaccination - PubMed

Our report of myocarditis after BNT162b2 vaccination may be possibly considered as an adverse reaction following immunization. We believe our information should be interpreted with caution and further surveillance is warranted.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

SARS-CoV-2 vaccine-induced cerebral venous thrombosis

The nosological entity of the cerebral venous thrombosis caused by the SARS-CoV-2 vaccination differs from the common cerebral venous thrombosis in that it is due to immune thrombocytopenia triggered by vaccination. Cerebral venous thrombosis is one of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As an aside, the capital police officer that died in the US Capital following Jan 6th had a rare type of stroke called basilar artery stroke. This is not common especially in a young person in his 40's. I have wondered if he had received the vaccine in the days before the event...just something I would be curious about.

Certainly not every claim they make in the Legal Complaint will turn out to be relevant, research is nuanced and follow-up research can shed light on a specific question (like is the spike protein of vaccine toxic in a similar way as native Covid spike protein), but the point is that there are a whole lot of concerning open questions that need answered. And many things like the discussion of PCR and the problems using that for diagnosis are spot on. Certainly their description of the VAERS database and the alarming signals in the number of deaths and severe side effects are absolutely true. In fact similar trends are seen in all the vaccine tracking databases around the world and also the WHO database of vaccine adverse events.

 

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[OMDA]

BTW, scroll down and check out the recently updated deaths C0VlD-19 Vaccination

 

[MitchC]

BTW, scroll down and check out the recently updated deaths C0VlD-19 Vaccination

I’m just reading that and I notice it says 338m “doses” of the vaccine have been given in the US which I assume means they used that number to come up with the death %.

But everyone needs 2 “doses” and some people are having even more than that. So you can instantly at least safely double the chance of death % they gave? Seems very misleading.

edit: I read this and thought I might be mistaken due to the wording:

“During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a C0VlD-19 vaccine”

“Those who received the vaccine” makes it sound like they counted people not doses.

so i did the maths and no they counted doses.

12313 deaths is .0036% of 338m doses.

I googled how many people in us are vaxinated.

12313 deaths is .0076% of 162m.

so more than double the chance of death than what that site says.

 

[OMDA]

I’m just reading that and I notice it says 338m “doses” of the vaccine have been given in the US which I assume means they used that number to come up with the death %.

But everyone needs 2 “doses” and some people are having even more than that. So you can instantly at least safely double the chance of death % they gave? Seems very misleading.

They overstate infections with pcr tests and deaths with confounding factors, and VAERS vaccine deaths are underreported.

 

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[GIlman]

In fairness, all you can say from VAERS is that 12, 313 deaths occurred AFTER the vaccine, you can't specifically say it was FROM the vaccine. Around 8,000 people die a day in the US, certainly when you vaccinate 150 million people some with die after receiving the vaccine that would have died even if they hadn't received the vaccine.

But, the concerning thing is that in the few months of the Covid vaccine, there are more deaths after Covid vaccine than all other vaccines combined over the past 30 years.

Also, it is estimated that only about 1% of deaths and side effects occurring after vaccination are reported in the VAERS database, because it is a purely voluntary reporting system, and the vast majority of issues are never suspected of being from the vaccine or reported in the VAERS system. So say only 400 of the 12,300 reported deaths were actually from the vaccine, that would mean that in reality there would be 40,000 (400 x 100) deaths with 99% unreported.

 

[GlobalWealth]

But what's the motive behind forcing this vaccine on people? At the very least it is money.

I've considered this too and the only thing I can think of is forcing so many people into a human trial of mRNA technology.

From the economic perspective, drug companies make huge money on vaccines and for the c19 vaccine since it is mostly free (well....) to individuals the govts pay for it.

Of course in reality, everyone pays for it through taxation and inflationary monetary policy so trillions in money printing helps the drug companies and the politicians as well as their close cronies.

In the fractional reserve banking system, the closer you are to the money printing, the greater the benefit you gain. The farther away you are from the money printing, the more pain you will suffer.

In this case politicians, their cronies, primary banks, and drug companies are the closest to the money printing, thus they get the most economic benefit.

Guess where we fall on that spectrum...

 

[Kak]

Robertwills probably has a day job to post propaganda on forums. It would be interesting to see what time he posts and if it lines up with some desk job.

Haha he is being paid by the government.

 

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[Kak]

Well then he's certainly in the minority among doctors when it comes to the covid vaccines. But so were the creators of the rna vaccine so who knows. I'm just glad I got the vaccine and I know there was a risk. So far so good.

Please. The minority? The only doctors allowed to speak have Fauci’s dick on their breath.

Everyone else is dismissed, just like you did there, under the same guise. There’s no consensus. There’s no agreement. There’s just propaganda and censorship that literally makes critical thinkers trust it less by the day.

 

[Timmy C]

Please. The minority? The only doctors allowed to speak have Fauci’s dick on their breath.

Everyone else is dismissed, just like you did there, under the same guise. There’s no consensus. There’s no agreement. There’s just propaganda and censorship that literally makes critical thinkers trust it less by the day.

The more they want me to have it, the less I want it and the more turned off I am.

 

[GPM]

The more they want me to have it, the less I want it and the more turned off I am.

But Timmy, you can get entered into a lottery to win money, get a free doughnut, and post virtue signaling photos of yourself on social media!!!

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

The more they want me to have it, the less I want it and the more turned off I am.

Same.

I'd actually trust them more if they weren't so eerily pushy about it.

I mean, France is jailing people who don't get it... What's worse: getting a virus, or living in a country that does stuff like that?

(I mean it does depend if you get severe complications or die from the virus, but that is pretty rare, just like how getting a vaccine complication is rare)

The way they are dividing people, even creating a subclass of citizens... That's what's really terrifying.

 

[GSF]

View: https://youtu.be/oZ9oLwGegpI

 

[Deleted85763]

Please. The minority? The only doctors allowed to speak have Fauci’s dick on their breath.

Everyone else is dismissed, just like you did there, under the same guise. There’s no consensus. There’s no agreement. There’s just propaganda and censorship that literally makes critical thinkers trust it less by the day.

My doctor told me to get the vaccine. My family's doctors' told my family members to get the vaccine. This, I believe, is not a conspiracy. I am very skeptical of what all governments say, they definitely do lie and abuse their power, but in this case I have weighed all the information and made what I think is the best decision for myself and everyone else. So far I and my family have not have covid, that we know of, but many people who did not get the vaccine have. I think my decision was the correct one.

I am not going to censor you. Your opinion is very valuable. You may be right.

The idea that someone is going to look at what time I post to try to figure out what intention I have is stupid. In today's world people can post 24/7 and be anyone. But if you want to know, I'm involved with business to business marketing. In between emails and phone calls I do have time to read this excellent, informative and entertaining, forum.

The subject of this forum is where to go when one is fed up with their country. My answer: Southern Spain. Great year-round weather, sea (warm for swimming in the summer and fall), interesting, good tasting and healthy food, laid back culture, inexpensive, beautiful landscapes, high quality consumer goods of all kinds readily available, modern infrastructure and development.

The negatives to me: The government can exercise more control than I think is necessary (like the months where no one could leave their homes with only a few exceptions), people can be aholes more than anywhere I have ever been and the humidity can be high, unlike similar climates like coastal California or Chile.

 

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[MTF]

The subject of this forum is where to go when one is fed up with their country. My answer: Southern Spain. Great weather, sea, interesting, good tasting and healthy food, laid back culture, inexpensive, beautiful landscapes, modern infrastructure and development. The negatives to me: The government can exercise more control than I think is necessary (like the months where no one could leave their homes with only a few exceptions), people can be aholes more than anywhere I have ever been and the humidity can be high, unlike similar climates like coastal California or Chile.

I agree with many of the pros. As for cons:

• Never experienced people being assholes more than anywhere else. The only exception may be super touristy areas but that's similar in other places as well where natives are tired of ignorant tourists and/or expats.
• Very high taxes and a very socialist government (and population, too).
• Very hot summers that can make it difficult to enjoy many activities during the day.
• A very unhealthy (from my perspective) lifestyle with people eating and staying up super late (dinners at 10-11 pm are normal). Also, because of their wrong time zone, sunrise is very late which, at least for me, an early riser, is terrible.
• While winters are generally mild, houses are poorly insulated and most don't have central heating. If you're out in the sun it's fine but mornings and evenings can be incredibly cold. When indoors in the winter, colder countries with properly built houses and central heating are WAY, WAY more comfortable than southern Spain. In fact, some of the times when I felt the coldest in my life were all in Spain and/or Greece (another country with a similar problem).
• A lot of traffic. Parking your car anywhere in the city center is close to impossible. It's also generally better to have a small car to be able to maneuver it more easily. Some towns in southern Spain have streets that are so narrow that even a compact car barely fits after folding the side mirrors.
• You need to enjoy driving 30 km/h because these are the new regulations in cities.

Also, not sure if right now as well, but last time I was there (November to December last year), Spanish people were some of the most "well-behaved" citizens as in they were OBSESSED about wearing masks. As far as I know, to this day many still wear them even though they're no longer mandatory outdoors. Southern Spain was a bit more lax in this aspect than northern Spain, though, but overall, the country was beaten into submission with their harsh lockdowns.

 

[GPM]

My doctor told me to get the vaccine. My family's doctors' told my family members to get the vaccine.

100% serious question here. I have not talked to my doctor about the covid vaccine so I don't know what he will say.

Did your doctor tell you any of the risks involved with it, or mention anything of that nature? I ask because I have small children, and before every vaccination shot they go over a whole list of risks and side effects that it they may have.

 

[Deleted85763]

I agree with many of the pros. As for cons:

• Never experienced people being assholes more than anywhere else. The only exception may be super touristy areas but that's similar in other places as well where natives are tired of ignorant tourists and/or expats.
• Very high taxes and a very socialist government (and population, too).
• Very hot summers that can make it difficult to enjoy many activities during the day.
• A very unhealthy (from my perspective) lifestyle with people eating and staying up super late (dinners at 10-11 pm are normal). Also, because of their wrong time zone, sunrise is very late which, at least for me, an early riser, is terrible.
• While winters are generally mild, houses are poorly insulated and most don't have central heating. If you're out in the sun it's fine but mornings and evenings can be incredibly cold. When indoors in the winter, colder countries with properly built houses and central heating are WAY, WAY more comfortable than southern Spain. In fact, some of the times when I felt the coldest in my life were all in Spain and/or Greece (another country with a similar problem).
• A lot of traffic. Parking your car anywhere in the city center is close to impossible. It's also generally better to have a small car to be able to maneuver it more easily. Some towns in southern Spain have streets that are so narrow that even a compact car barely fits after folding the side mirrors.
• You need to enjoy driving 30 km/h because these are the new regulations in cities.

Also, not sure if right now as well, but last time I was there (November to December last year), Spanish people were some of the most "well-behaved" citizens as in they were OBSESSED about wearing masks. As far as I know, to this day many still wear them even though they're no longer mandatory outdoors. Southern Spain was a bit more lax in this aspect than northern Spain, though, but overall, the country was beaten into submission with their harsh lockdowns.

The heating situation is a major negative however that can be corrected by having a place with good heat or using heating systems, like portable heaters. This will be an expense but is offset by the other savings and all the rest of the benefits.

I don't worry or stress or am I impacted by vehicle traffic to any large degree. I bicycle and walk everywhere, even in the US. Many Spanish, and European, cities have decent to excellent, bicycling infrastructure. Many people in Spain walk everywhere. It's a really healthy, and economical, lifestyle. Plus it's good for the environment including reducing noise pollution.

Staying up late in Spain is good if you do business with the North or South America. When it's 10 pm. in Spain it's still afternoon in throughout those regions and business still can be conducted.

 

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[Deleted85763]

100% serious question here. I have not talked to my doctor about the covid vaccine so I don't know what he will say.

Did your doctor tell you any of the risks involved with it, or mention anything of that nature? I ask because I have small children, and before every vaccination shot they go over a whole list of risks and side effects that it they may have.

No. My doctor did not go over the risks. This was this past March . My doctor just came in the room and the first thing they said was "Did you get the covid vaccine?". I said "No.". They said "Why not?". I said "Because I am not yet in category that can get it right now." They said "Oh yes, you are young and healthy." My doctor didn't need to say any more. They definitely wanted me to get it and I already I made a decision to get it when it became available. Two weeks later people in my category were allowed to get the vaccine, which I did immediately.

 

[Kak]

100% serious question here. I have not talked to my doctor about the covid vaccine so I don't know what he will say.

Did your doctor tell you any of the risks involved with it, or mention anything of that nature? I ask because I have small children, and before every vaccination shot they go over a whole list of risks and side effects that it they may have.

Doctors that want to keep being doctors have no choice but to toe the line.

 

[Deleted85763]

Doctors that want to keep being doctors have no choice but to toe the line.

I believe most doctors are ethical and would never intentionally harm patients.

However, I agree you never know.

 

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[GPM]

I

I believe most doctors are ethical and would never intentionally harm patients.

However, I agree you never know.

Is this why most pharmaceuticals that they push are ones given to them by reps and not ones that may be the best for the patient? Is this also why drugs are the go to solution rather than prescribing long-term lifestyle changes to fix the root cause?

I asked you the previous question because you stated that the vaccine was what was best for you after talking with your doctor. You then went on to state that you are young and healthy (and thus rendering covid19 a near non issue for you) and that your doctor in fact gave you 0 information about what your injection was. No information positive or negative.

 

[GIlman]

Please. The minority? The only doctors allowed to speak have Fauci’s dick on their breath.

Everyone else is dismissed, just like you did there, under the same guise. There’s no consensus. There’s no agreement. There’s just propaganda and censorship that literally makes critical thinkers trust it less by the day.

@Kak it’s worse than that. Nearly all medical research money comes from where, the NIH, nearly $40 billion a year. Who is in charge of all the money at the NIH? Fauci.

Cross Fauci and risk never being funded by NIH again which for nearly all medical researchers is career ending.

@robertwills it’s possible your doctors did extensive research and came to the conclusion that these vaccines were safe and effective. However, the vast majority of physicians use hueristic’s (mental shortcut) because their time is limited. The hueristic most physician’s use is follow the guidance of the CDC, and they never lift a finger to dig into it themselves.

it makes sense right? Your heuristic is I trust the authority - your doctors. Doctors heuristic is the same, I trust the authority - the CDC, NIH, etc.

Doctors are my peer group, I talk to them daily. I can tell you from first hand experience that a large proportion of doctors think the Covid Vaccine is FDA approved. They don’t even know it’s operating under an emergency use authorization (EUA). If that’s the case what else don’t they know.

Hell, I myself thought the PCR test was FDA approved, I just found out yesterday it was distributed under an EUA. Why? Heuristics, I am use to tests in medicine only being widely used after fda approval and I had never dig into it. Groupthink and appeals to authority are very hard to break out of.

 

[SharpeningBlade]

Rand Paul called out Fucci in Congress a couple days ago, videos are up online about it, he caught Fucci in a lie and said there will be consequences for whoever is responsible for the research that led to this.

This is a good sign. The more disturbing trend is people on social saying how the unvacated are going to kill people. Who are they killing? Are they killing each other or they killing the 'vacated people'? If they are killing the 'vacated' people, then the vacation must not be as effective as they claim, right?

I could see a plot where most businesses in an area prevent the unvacated from entering. They are already discussing this in US and implementing it soon in France.

Then there will be a lot of money in underground railroad type business activities. (How fastlane is that? ) Eventually though, you will see that the unvacated become immune naturally, and the only ones having any cases will be the vacated people, who have to keep getting the latest booster shot to stay immune, and the boosters will over time make their immune system weaker and weaker.

Right now what is happening is the vacated are the main sources of transmission because the vacated are no longer taking precautions and/or being respectful members of society, whereas the unvacated tend to be by and large more conscientious (you do get a**holes though in any group for sure).

 

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[Deleted85763]

@Kak it’s worse than that. Nearly all medical research money comes from where, the NIH, nearly $40 billion a year. Who is in charge of all the money at the NIH? Fauci.

Cross Fauci and risk never being funded by NIH again which for nearly all medical researchers is career ending.

@robertwills it’s possible your doctors did extensive research and came to the conclusion that these vaccines were safe and effective. However, the vast majority of physicians use hueristic’s (mental shortcut) because their time is limited. The hueristic most physician’s use is follow the guidance of the CDC, and they never lift a finger to dig into it themselves.

it makes sense right? Your heuristic is I trust the authority - your doctors. Doctors heuristic is the same, I trust the authority - the CDC, NIH, etc.

Doctors are my peer group, I talk to them daily. I can tell you from first hand experience that a large proportion of doctors think the Covid Vaccine is FDA approved. They don’t even know it’s operating under an emergency use authorization (EUA). If that’s the case what else don’t they know.

Hell, I myself thought the PCR test was FDA approved, I just found out yesterday it was distributed under an EUA. Why? Heuristics, I am use to tests in medicine only being widely used after fda approval and I had never dig into it. Groupthink and appeals to authority are very hard to break out of.

A large proportion of doctors don't know the Covid vaccine is not yet FDA fully approved? Really? Even my teenage niece knows that. The doctors don't know of "Operation Warp Speed" or the term "Emergency Use Authorization", too?

I highly doubt this is some major conspiracy with the CDC and the "powers that be". We are learning moment by moment about the virus. It's not a seamless process. There have been mistakes and will be mistakes but the world is becoming increasingly able to control it. Not that it definitely ultimately will.

Today I have heard a number of reports on that many people who refused the vaccine are now starting to change their mind. I guess they now see that this virus will probably "get them" if they don't get vaxinated. There's nothing more real than reality. We're here ready to help them get vaxinated, free of charge!

 

[SharpeningBlade]

I highly doubt this is some major conspiracy with the CDC and the "powers that be". We are learning moment by moment about the virus. It's not a seamless process. There have been mistakes and will be mistakes but the world is becoming increasingly able to control it. Not that it definitely ultimately will.

CDC march 2020: Masks don't prevent transmission! It doesn't spread through air!

CDC Nov 2020: Masks play a big role in preventing transmission. The primary way of spreading is through the air!

Yea, I'm sure Americans should be trusting the CDC at this point.

Not.

 

[Deleted85763]

CDC march 2020: Masks don't prevent transmission! It doesn't spread through air!

CDC Nov 2020: Masks play a big role in preventing transmission. The primary way of spreading is through the air!

Yea, I'm sure Americans should be trusting the CDC at this point.

Not.

That was, I believe, a "noble lie" to prevent a run of masks by the public which may have caused a shortage of masks for front line healthcare workers which would have been far worse situation than telling the truth. I don't like it either. I hate lies, of any kind, from anyone.

But I still believe they, and other medical authorities, have the best interests for the public health.

 

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[GPM]

I guess they now see that this virus will probably "get them" if they don't get vaxinated.

Really? Are the people who don't want to get the vaccine afraid that they will die of covid? The chances are absolutely miniscule for nearly everyone. Those in extreme risk groups should probably get it, and the rest of the population? Why? They can get covid and obtain natural immunities.

 

[GIlman]

The one thing I do know, technology changes, human nature doesn’t.

History tells us that governments, including the US government do not always act with the best medical interests of their citizens. Tuskegee experiments and agent orange experiments on soldiers to name just a few. So no I don’t implicitly trust the government.

Does that mean there is something nefarious about Covid - no!! But there is a lot of smoke, so the question is there fire.

But here is the disturbing thing to me. We are being told we can’t question why there is smoke and we have to trust that there is no fire. That is a setup for a potential huge disaster.

So is there something bad with the vaccine? I can’t say that there is with certainty. But there are massive early warning signals there are very well could be, and those things need to be openly and honesty discussed, and that isn’t happening because of silencing and coercion. That is not how you prove something, that is the opposite of how science works.

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

That was, I believe, a "noble lie" to prevent a run of masks by the public which may have caused a shortage of masks for front line healthcare workers which would have been far worse situation than telling the truth.

I'm afraid not, my friend.

Even Fauci admitted in an early email that "The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through the material."

Here's the email from a recent Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request.

 

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[MitchC]

Has anyone in here watched plandemic? Maybe we need a new thread for it. I have only watched the first one not the second one and even that was very eye opening.

the biggest thing I noticed was that it is impossible to find on google, when you search it all it comes up with is bulk news articles saying it is a load of shit.

But if you search it on duck duck go it is the first result.

That to me says that they are trying very hard to make sure people don’t watch it. If it’s true that it’s a load of shit they wouldn’t need to hide it.

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

Spanish people were some of the most "well-behaved" citizens as in they were OBSESSED about wearing masks. As far as I know, to this day many still wear them even though they're no longer mandatory outdoors.

Same in Puerto Rico.

It's so bad, it'd make @Kak want to pay taxes staying in Texas. LOL.

But if you search it on duck duck go it is the first result.

Dude, I can ONLY use DDG for anything rona related.
The other search engines are 100% pure propaganda.