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HOT TOPIC Fed Up With Your Country? Where Is Left to Go?

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MJ DeMarco

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I feel like everyone I speak to wants to leave their home country lol.

Slim pickings to pick from...

Tyranny everywhere.

I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time high and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Who appreciates entrepreneurs and job providers?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.
 

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I feel like everyone I speak to wants to leave their home country lol.

Slim pickings to pick from...

Tyranny everywhere.
I worry about this as well. But leave to go where?

Before the worst of this pandemic came about, Asians (especially my country) were all about gathering enough degrees or cash to run away to the West (EU, USA, Australia)

While the Westerner folks are all about dropping in on China, Southeast Asia, and even East Europe (for whatever reasons like low cost of living, running away from student debts, seeking entrepreneural opportunities in developing countries, yadda yadda yadda...)

But currently...I've no idea how all this migration will balance out.
At some point, most countries will agree to mass vaccinations and passports.

There's the cycle to think of as well:
1.The cream of the crop runs away to Nice Nation, away from Shit Nation.

2.The lesser, sheep-minded folks left in Shit Nation see the green pastures of Nice Nation.

3.Sheep folks crowd over to Nice Nation in droves.

4. Nice Nation has to toughen immigration laws, or else they get swamped with a migrant crisis and raise the ire of their own people who think their jobs will be stolen. But tighten too much, and some human rights body marches in, claiming its a violation of the right to travel.

5. Shit Nation becomes more shit with less people and less brains
(unless it can pull off a China. It sparked a huge wave of Chinese diaspora that spread around the globe when the Qing Dynasty was trashing the country...but somehow now China's pulling in MNCs and not a few Westerners)

I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time low and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.
Singapore haha.
But they gotta get their travel bubble up.

Looking back at history, the old leaders of Asian countries who brought them independence used to go overseas to study, gather resources, and then come back to change the nation for the better.

That was servicehood. Now folks just go overseas and don't come back because it's easier to enjoy your own comfort far away. They don't make leaders like long ago now.
 

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I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time low and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.

Just need to make sure that people have a steady supply of F-15s and nukes.
 

MTF

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I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time low and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.

Can we start a separate thread on this? I'd like to discuss where people are fleeing from and where they're going to in these crazy times.

I can start it unless you want to copy your post and maybe some of the previous ones into the new thread.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Can we start a separate thread on this? I'd like to discuss where people are fleeing from and where they're going to in these crazy times.

I can start it unless you want to copy your post and maybe some of the previous ones into the new thread.

Give me a thread title and I'll out-copy your post as a thread starter.
 

Mario_fastlaner

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I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time low and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.
Well, I don't think this is true, at least here in Italy. There are people who complain about the restrictions, but they are the same people that complained about everything before all the C0VlD-19 stuff.
I think the level of hatred is the same, just been exasperated now.
 

MTF

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Give me a thread title and I'll out-copy your post as a thread starter.

Thanks. Some ideas:
  • Where Are People Fed Up With Their Countries Moving to?
  • Fed Up With Your Country? Where Are You Going to?
  • Which Countries Offer a Bright Future for Unscripted Entrepreneurs?
  • Which Countries Are Getting More Tyrannical and Which Countries Still Offer Freedom?
 

MTF

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Thanks for creating the new thread.

I believe that one of the most well-traveled entrepreneurs these days is Andrew Henderson from the Nomad Capitalist (or at least he's the most outspoken one).

Out of all the countries he has visited, in his video on choosing only three countries to live in, he chose Malaysia, Mexico, and Serbia. And that's coming from a guy who has been to well over a hundred countries and is only going where he's treated best.

@ZF Lee are you familiar with Nomad Capitalist? Why do you think he enjoys Malaysia so much and considers it a place where he is treated better than in other places? Why don't you?


@Zaratustra can speak about that. I believe he's pretty happy freedom-wise in Georgia.


No idea specifically about Estonia but the Baltics in general seem to be a pretty neutral place. They have a very solid creative startup scene considering how small they are. Their small size also seems to protect them from the worst of tyranny (hard to be a despot in a country with 1-2 million inhabitants).

Costa Rica?

As far as I know they've had some very silly lockdown restrictions. Some are still enforced, like only cars with odd numbers being allowed to drive on one day and only cars with even numbers being allowed to drive on another.

Other than that, while it might be a pretty good country to retire and live by the beach like a bum but it's probably challenging for entrepreneurs and/or people who want to have access to online shopping, a startup scene, etc.


Many people have been enjoying it a lot already. If Mexico finally gets rid of the organized crime problem and general corruption and violence it could become one of the best countries in the world.

The countries that oppose the global tax idea may also possibly be signaling they prefer to compete like entrepreneurs and not like tyrannical bureaucrats:

Ireland, Estonia, Hungary, Peru, Barbados, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sri Lanka, Nigeria and Kenya.

Out of these, @Fox can talk about Ireland but as far as I know he doesn't think the country is heading in the right direction.

I lived in Barbados and it's a very nice place climate-wise and surfing-wise but it's a very small island so you won't be building a huge business there nor getting access to a lot of stuff you can easily buy in bigger countries. They're also so small they can easily be beaten into submission by the bigger countries.

I believe there are some forum members from Nigeria here as well as perhaps from Kenya. Africa could be an interesting possibility in the coming years.
 

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Personally I usually think more about what would have to happen for the issues to be fixed.
Firefly / Serenity freedom doesn't appeal to me.

Interesting to see Ireland listed here. Never thought much about it until I saw "Inside Job" recently.
My brother says after they got completely wrecked by high finance, they said f*ck you to the tyrants like the International Monetary Fund.

Have not researched how well this is working out for them, but I think there are others that did just that. Turkey comes to mind. My fear would be that these countries end up on a shitlist and get targeted systematically.
 

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Out of these, @Fox can talk about Ireland but as far as I know he doesn't think the country is heading in the right direction.

Just did a week in Ireland and apart from seeing my family it was fairly depressing.

When I was younger Ireland seemed amazing and now it just seems like a place with a million different rules and a government that will tax/fine/ban/restrict you at every move.

Here is a photo I took last week that sums it all up...

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 21.44.33.png

Over the last year a lot of countries showed their true colors and Ireland for sure showed theirs. They had Europes worst lockdown and a zero-IQ approach towards dealing with things. They just locked everything down, took out massive debt, and went into "look how safe I can be" virtue signalling.

When I went back last week they still had a ban on indoor dining. They are the ONLY country in Europe doing this.

For me I can't live there - I just can't trust the government with my life and freedom.
Ireland has some of the best people, food, and scenery possible but as a country it is just driving off a cliff.

On the other hand living in Poland has been amazing. No one bothers me about anything, everyone is super friendly, the place just feels free and happy, and they have great positive values and work ethic.

Even making this post is depressing so I will leave it at that.

In short if you are thinking Europe then go EAST - Poland, Hungary, Ukraine, Georgia, Russia, Serbia etc. All of these countries will do well as the West of Europe hits the wall over the next 5-10 years.
 

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Many people have been enjoying it a lot already. If Mexico finally gets rid of the organized crime problem and general corruption and violence it could become one of the best countries in the world.

It’s a another topic and another story. But it pretty much will never go away. There’s just too much money to be made and government are too stupid to recognize that stopping a black market is almost impossible.

But it’s really something that is isolated. If you mind your own business you should be just as safe as in your hometown.

Im a Mexican citizen an will probably move to Mexico. I wouldn’t live near a border or anything too touristy. Something central and close though.

But sad though. You have more rights and freedom in these third world countries than in the US. Their economy is doing pretty good as well. Food or real estate are always good businesses.
 

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I wouldn’t live near a border or anything too touristy.

So the tourist areas (like Vallerta, Cancun and Acapulco) are no gos? I would think it is the opposite, if there is chaos and crime in these areas, the tourists stop coming.
 

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So the tourist areas (like Vallerta, Cancun and Acapulco) are no gos? I would think it is the opposite, if there is chaos and crime in these areas, the tourists stop coming.

No , yeah it’s a go. Those areas are crime free for sure. Even the criminals don’t want crime there lol. But I was saying it more in terms of the cost and crowds. Just my opinion.
 

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So the tourist areas (like Vallerta, Cancun and Acapulco) are no gos? I would think it is the opposite, if there is chaos and crime in these areas, the tourists stop coming.
My wife is Mexican and we spend a lot of time here. Currently in Yucatan Peninsula and it's awesome. Not very touristy, weather is hot all the time (if you like that sort of thing), and it's super safe. Personally we used to go to Playa del Carmen and we won't ever go back. I get hassled literally everytime I go out the door, and I don't feel even remotely safe when the sun sets.

So far my favorite sports are Yucatan Peninsula (Merida and Progreso area), and around Mexico city. Any resort area would be hotel-stay only.

Tourist areas are only safe in the tourist part of that area, the regular parts of those areas to me seem super unsafe compared to just regular mexico
 

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I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time high and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Who appreciates entrepreneurs and job providers?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.
I think we can all believe there are greener pastures on the other side. Perhaps there are at times. I don't believe you can get away from restrictions, rules, regulations, policies, and legal laws entirely.

I don't believe you can get rid of human nature, the ego, the dominance, control, and power. Perhaps change your perspective, how you react to it, or change geographical locations. I will tell you, I rather be with my own U.S. Government right now in a world crisis. This World Crisis in 2020 kind of opened my eyes with riots around the globe and protests.

I suppose it's just my Military/Government generational family line kicking in, but it's just you can comprehend, regardless of where you start a business, your protected by your Government, what kind of defense you have and what they promote in their system. Many of us did not like being over here in 2020 when the planes went down and boarders closed.

It's nice at first when you move, but then depending where you are from, you may have had a better experience in your home country. Although, Michigan was filled with a lot of Activity in 2020, still it would have been more comfortable. Sounds like a great idea, until a World Event occurs.

No , yeah it’s a go. Those areas are crime free for sure. Even the criminals don’t want crime there lol. But I was saying it more in terms of the cost and crowds. Just my opinion.
 

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@ZF Lee are you familiar with Nomad Capitalist? Why do you think he enjoys Malaysia so much and considers it a place where he is treated better than in other places? Why don't you?
If one is only in the country just to enjoy the physical stuff like lower living costs, subsidies for utility bills, lower petrol costs (compared to the West), food (yeah...), then Malaysia is a haven.

But if you have been born here and stayed much longer, more inner problems show up.
You have institutional racism against minorities. Government jobs and scholarships reserved for a racial majority (Malays and natives). I try not to balk too much as long as there's other opportunities like entrepreneurship.

But the problem comes when our elders- that is, my parents' generation- sees this blatant inefficiency and accepts it as it is. And keep hating the racial majority, telling their kids to never work with other races, ever.

f*cking dysfunctionality and time-wasting racism!
Not only in the leaders, but in the people themselves, where the leaders 'typically' come from in a typical democratic society.

This attitude spills everywhere in both private and public sectors, and that's where we have problems like income inequality, political crap and so on.

I have some Malaysian friends who just don't care about all these things, and just focus on making money or GFs, football or whatever. But can we- as decent human beings who genuinely want the people and leaders around us to grow and fulfil what they need to - ignore what's around us?

You need strict racial harmony laws and meritocracy in the mindset of the populace. Without these, how can you continue churning out OK government policies? How can you keep the private sector of entrepreneurs moving forward? How will your businesses continue running?

That is what Singapore has done successfully so far.

Sure, Lee Kuan Yew had to arrest a lot of people and block the opposition to do it, but they can move on to other problems to solve now.
 
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Well, I live in Perth in Western Australia, and it feels like the sentiment is starting to turn, which has led to our federal government announcing the 'roadmap out of C0VlD' last week.

The past sentiment has been more of the 'keep us safe, we will put up with less freedom', but is shifting towards more unrest at the Orwellian state of play at the moment where the elected officials have control of your personal freedoms in your own country.

We have been getting locked down for single cases in Perth, as out government (both state and federal) has moved from a 'flatten the curve' strategy to an 'eradication strategy'. Australian citizens are not allowed to leave the country without an exemption, returning citizen numbers are severely capped and interstate travel is extremely restricted.

I'm appreciative of the fact we have had very low C0VlD cases and death in Australia, but it seems due to this we have been very slow with the VAXCClNE rollout. This has resulted in an extended period where lockdowns are happening, and is going to continue at least into next year.

The most unsettling thing of all is how many people put up with the government dictating a state of emergency for so few cases, collecting information on your whereabouts constantly and don't question it. I'm starting to feel like big brother isn't going to want to give up the control they have over the population any time in the future...
 

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Caribbean islands (even US territories) are about the most economically free places on earth, also a lifestyle I like. Costa Rica is a place that intrigues me, as well as Panama. The Baltics are also intriguing to me, but less likely.

My theory isn’t that these places are inherently more free, I just think they know what’s best for them at the moment. And I’ll take what I can get.

If I have to learn a new language, I would prefer it to be Spanish.

I would sell a testicle to be a Singapore, or Monaco citizen. Probably the two best places on earth, just by pure numbers. Never going to happen though.

Being an American and having the renunciation thing looming over your head, you have so fewer options. You really need different citizenship to just leave and live somewhere else, because if I just moved to Singapore tomorrow, I’d still be an American subject. So there’s no point to the move.
 
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Caribbean islands (even US territories) are about the most economically free places on earth, also a lifestyle I like. Costa Rica is a place that intrigues me, as well as Panama. The Baltics are also intriguing to me, but less likely.

My theory isn’t that these places are inherently more free, I just think they know what’s best for them at the moment. And I’ll take what I can get.

If I have to learn a new language, I would prefer it to be Spanish.

I would sell a testicle to be a Singapore, or Monaco citizen. Probably the two best places on earth, just by pure numbers. Never going to happen though.

Being an American and having the renunciation thing looming over your head, you have so fewer options. You really need different citizenship to just leave and live somewhere else, because if I just moved to Singapore tomorrow, I’d still be an American subject. So there’s no point to the move.
I thought about creating another country via floating platforms in the sea or by buying/renting large amounts of land in a developing country and starting an enclave of complete free trade where the only rule is "Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else." If you think I'm joking I'm not. I know one of the wealthiest families in the world and I also know a royal family In fact they just emailed me and I emailed them back the last hour.

If you think it can't be done, we'll you might be right but you never know. I'm at a point in my life where I would want to do something like this.

I've lived in and visited a number of different countries, both developed, undeveloped and one with elements of prehistoric. Judging if the place is "better" is complex and is quite subjective. One thing that the US has that no other country has is that it's citizens have freedoms and protections that are very deep. Most citizens have no idea just how good they have it, regardless of all the incompetence, waste and abuse government at all levels has. For example, the US has no national language. To me that is like being able to take a deep breath!

As far as entrepreneurs go, they need absolute freedom to bring out the best of them. As I indicated above, to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else. That's the world I want to create.
 

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I thought about creating another country via floating platforms in the sea or by buying/renting large amounts of land in a developing country and starting an enclave of complete free trade where the only rule is "Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else." If you think I'm joking I'm not. I know one of the wealthiest families in the world and I also know a royal family In fact they just emailed me and I emailed them back the last hour.

If you think it can't be done, we'll you might be right but you never know. I'm at a point in my life where I would want to do something like this.

I've lived in and visited a number of different countries, both developed, undeveloped and one with elements of prehistoric. Judging if the place is "better" is complex and is quite subjective. One thing that the US has that no other country has is that it's citizens have freedoms and protections that are very deep. Most citizens have no idea just how good they have it, regardless of all the incompetence, waste and abuse government at all levels has. For example, the US has no national language. To me that is like being able to take a deep breath!

As far as entrepreneurs go, they need absolute freedom to bring out the best of them. As I indicated above, to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else. That's the world I want to create.

I like where this guys head is at.

Let's create our own country.
 

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Thanks for creating the new thread.

I believe that one of the most well-traveled entrepreneurs these days is Andrew Henderson from the Nomad Capitalist (or at least he's the most outspoken one).

Out of all the countries he has visited, in his video on choosing only three countries to live in, he chose Malaysia, Mexico, and Serbia. And that's coming from a guy who has been to well over a hundred countries and is only going where he's treated best.

@ZF Lee are you familiar with Nomad Capitalist? Why do you think he enjoys Malaysia so much and considers it a place where he is treated better than in other places? Why don't you?



@Zaratustra can speak about that. I believe he's pretty happy freedom-wise in Georgia.



No idea specifically about Estonia but the Baltics in general seem to be a pretty neutral place. They have a very solid creative startup scene considering how small they are. Their small size also seems to protect them from the worst of tyranny (hard to be a despot in a country with 1-2 million inhabitants).



As far as I know they've had some very silly lockdown restrictions. Some are still enforced, like only cars with odd numbers being allowed to drive on one day and only cars with even numbers being allowed to drive on another.

Other than that, while it might be a pretty good country to retire and live by the beach like a bum but it's probably challenging for entrepreneurs and/or people who want to have access to online shopping, a startup scene, etc.



Many people have been enjoying it a lot already. If Mexico finally gets rid of the organized crime problem and general corruption and violence it could become one of the best countries in the world.

The countries that oppose the global tax idea may also possibly be signaling they prefer to compete like entrepreneurs and not like tyrannical bureaucrats:

Ireland, Estonia, Hungary, Peru, Barbados, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sri Lanka, Nigeria and Kenya.

Out of these, @Fox can talk about Ireland but as far as I know he doesn't think the country is heading in the right direction.

I lived in Barbados and it's a very nice place climate-wise and surfing-wise but it's a very small island so you won't be building a huge business there nor getting access to a lot of stuff you can easily buy in bigger countries. They're also so small they can easily be beaten into submission by the bigger countries.

I believe there are some forum members from Nigeria here as well as perhaps from Kenya. Africa could be an interesting possibility in the coming years.

I live in Ireland.

Benefits of living here and starting a business - low tax, it's really easy to start a business,banks allow no fees for 2 years, easy access to information and help.

Bad - very bad weather, low population, if global tax rule comes in Ireland is in trouble, like most of Europe it's getting quite socialist with people who do nothing get free money and free houses.

I'm trying to start a 100% online business so I can move.
 

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I thought about creating another country via floating platforms in the sea or by buying/renting large amounts of land in a developing country and starting an enclave of complete free trade where the only rule is "Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else." If you think I'm joking I'm not. I know one of the wealthiest families in the world and I also know a royal family In fact they just emailed me and I emailed them back the last hour.

If you think it can't be done, we'll you might be right but you never know. I'm at a point in my life where I would want to do something like this.

I've lived in and visited a number of different countries, both developed, undeveloped and one with elements of prehistoric. Judging if the place is "better" is complex and is quite subjective. One thing that the US has that no other country has is that it's citizens have freedoms and protections that are very deep. Most citizens have no idea just how good they have it, regardless of all the incompetence, waste and abuse government at all levels has. For example, the US has no national language. To me that is like being able to take a deep breath!

As far as entrepreneurs go, they need absolute freedom to bring out the best of them. As I indicated above, to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else. That's the world I want to create.
Isn't this in a an Ayn Rand book?
 

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From experience, there's many other countries available that are superior to western countries in the usual ways complained about. There's more than 200 in the world, guaranteed one will be close enough to taste. Especially if you've already made your money.

The first step is basically to throw away all preconceptions. I was amazed by how detached from reality my conceptions of some countries were. That's what happens when you're plugged into western media all the time. It's one thing to muse about a falling west and other countries on their way to passing the west by, but it's another to see it with your own eyes. The difference in the energy, the life, the human spirit.

That includes even sacred cows like democracy. Some non-democratic countries are way better than democratic ones. People just go about their business, while people in the west are perpetually in a state of hating the other side, as is part and parcel of a "vibrant" democracy. While there's some despotic countries in the world, I've never witnessed happiness and peace and natural humanity before like I witnessed among those in non-democratic countries.

The only tough part is accepting de facto refugee status. That's what leaving for political or humanitarian reasons actually is, whether rich or poor. There's always a certain value in being in your homeland, among your own kind, that nowhere else will ever give you. But that's not always valuable enough, and after all you can still visit (unless it gets extra bad, but in which case better to be out anyway).
 
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peddletothemetal

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But also @OP I'd second giving NomadCapitalist a call, he basically specializes in cases like yours, high wealth individuals who'd like to modify their residency structure to be more in line with their tastes, political, economic, lifestyle, or otherwise. He'd no doubt go all in on a bespoke solution for you, since you're a big name and he's been busily courting big names of late.
 

Zaratustra

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Tbilisi, Georgia
I've posted couple of bulletpoints about Georgia in some other threads, but here is one dirty like secret to keep in mind:

If any time in the future you happened to see the headline, that the region of Abkhazia (currently occupied by Russia) has been returned to Georgia, just go and buy a land there. It will become one of the best tourist destinations in the world.
I would heavily bet on town of Gagra (recommended by elder people who've been there during soviet times), especially western part of the town.

While I'm on the roll, let me tell you how foreigners can buy real-estate in Georgia:
1) It either has to be an apartment,
2) or it has to be a "non-agricultural" land. Most of the land is "agricultural" (it's just a term and does not imply any legal requirements, except that only Georgian citizens can buy), but "agricultural" land can be changed into "non-agricultural" by submitting a business project in given municipality. Business can be anything from manufacturing to a small guesthouse. On the other hand, there are plenty of ready "non-agricultural" lands in many touristy destinations, and you can literally buy one from eauction.ge (it's not my website, but governments), though english versions sucks a lot.
 

NCNY

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This thread feels like the grass is always greener on the other side...

Do you really want to move out to eastern europe? when most of the population is poor and doesn't know english outside the main tourist area? Russia? China? really??
Contrary to the US, unless you are born in this countries you will always be an expat, if you migrate into the states are you american and should be treated like that.

BTW if you move out of the US you still own the US govemerment tax lol, the only countries in the world that pose citizen tax regardless of residency are the US and.... Eritrea
 

christophj00

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Jul 1, 2020
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Germany
I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time high and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Who appreciates entrepreneurs and job providers?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.
The only role running away does is help your personal well-being? obtaining the fastlane is discipline and understanding the process? Where you hit your home run doesnt matter? i live in germany and taxes and politics are Sheiß everywhere. (Sorry for the vulgar foreign language). ive listened to the first 2 books and on the third now. your principles and the way you express them are amazing.
 

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