Expanding Outside Upwork -- Creating My Own Website, Email- and Direct Mail Campaigns + much more!

[Nicoknowsbest]

I'm TERRIBLE at designing ads.

I came up with pretty good headlines for the product and the body copy is pretty decent but gosh, does the design look terrible.

Should I get rid of the pictures and all the design stuff and just show him what the copy would look like?

Or do I just suck it up and try to come up with an ad that looks somehow presentable?

Think in "done-for-you-deals".

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

Think in "done-for-you-deals".

@Nicoknowsbest You're right it's best to show the final outcome!

 

[TomW]

I'm still in the process of making the sample ads for the prospect, @Nicoknowsbest offered his help in designing the ad which was a huge help for me since I don't know anything about design, thank you so much.

At the moment I'm focused to this one person who answered and showed interest.

Is it best to call one person at a time and focus on him if he shows interest, or should I call multiple persons in a row and start working multiple projects at the same time?

Which approach do you guys prefer?

 

[TomW]

The email with samples and few marketing improving tips was sent yesterday, I'm waiting for the prospects response.

Today I have to leave town for work again, will be coming back on Saturday evening.

I will continue cold calling on Monday, and pay a visit to the new kebab place and discuss biz.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

Today was a bad day.

I had troubles picking the damn phone up. I didn't go to the kebab restaurant.

I did nothing.

 

[TomW]

I went to the kebab restaurant after all.

Felt so F*cking bad for being lazy. Luckily they are open till 10 PM.

It wasn't a success though, I felt like the owner didn't understand what I meant by copywriting or "writing his website".

He said he had been talking to a friend who's a web developer that agreed to "do everything" which in this case meant buying the domain, coding the site and writing the copy.

I tried to explain him why it's good to have a copywriter to do the writing. Web developers are web developers not copywriters, they are better at making the site function better and all the technical aspects.

He also told me that he had been talking to other web developers and advertising companies and that they charge 1500€ for a website which in his opinion is way too much.

After this he suddenly just stood up and went to the kitchen. Never really gave me a yes or a no. But judging from his body language he was not interested.

This was a real shame because the previous restaurateur made the same mistake. Didn't invest in a proper website OR advertising OR copywriting.

He had to close in two months.

Even if he agreed to have me write his website he wouldn't have seen the value in it since he already told me that "1500€ for a website is too much".

I probably would've ended haggling for him and that's something I don't want to do.

My takeaways from the event:

1. SET UP A MEETING. Don't walk in to a place which has a constant flow of customers or a lot of people around you while the owner tries to run the place at the same time he is discussing business with you, or things he/she has never even heard of.

I started the conversation just by walking in and asking if he remembered what we discussed last time we saw.

2. PREPARE. Show 'em, don't tell 'em. Have something relevant you can show immediately, don't expect everybody to know about copywriting and the value it has.

When I was eating my kebab I started to google "kebab copywriting" and "restaurant copywriting". I managed to find decent copy about a kebab restaurant but it was on a brochure not a website. Not good.

3. LEAVE THEM WITH SOMETHING. Give tips about how they can improve their current copy, whether it's the slogan on their window or their current web copy, or the flier they give people or the copy on the sign they have in front of the door in the street.

Before I went out the door I just awkwardly stood there for a while because the owner just stood up and went to the kitchen. I didn't know how to end a conversation like this or how to act when someone just stands up and leaves. I felt like a moron.


But it was good practice for me, I'm glad I went out and didn't stay home like loser.

Not picking up the phone still makes me a little bit mad, though.

 

[Andy Black]

I went to the kebab restaurant after all.

Felt so F*cking bad for being lazy. Luckily they are open till 10 PM.

It wasn't a success though, I felt like the owner didn't understand what I meant by copywriting or "writing his website".

He said he had been talking to a friend who's a web developer that agreed to "do everything" which in this case meant buying the domain, coding the site and writing the copy.

I tried to explain him why it's good to have a copywriter to do the writing. Web developers are web developers not copywriters, they are better at making the site function better and all the technical aspects.

He also told me that he had been talking to other web developers and advertising companies and that they charge 1500€ for a website which in his opinion is way too much.

After this he suddenly just stood up and went to the kitchen. Never really gave me a yes or a no. But judging from his body language he was not interested.

This was a real shame because the previous restaurateur made the same mistake. Didn't invest in a proper website OR advertising OR copywriting.

He had to close in two months.

Even if he agreed to have me write his website he wouldn't have seen the value in it since he already told me that "1500€ for a website is too much".

I probably would've ended haggling for him and that's something I don't want to do.

My takeaways from the event:

1. SET UP A MEETING. Don't walk in to a place which has a constant flow of customers or a lot of people around you while the owner tries to run the place at the same time he is discussing business with you, or things he/she has never even heard of.

I started the conversation just by walking in and asking if he remembered what we discussed last time we saw.

2. PREPARE. Show 'em, don't tell 'em. Have something relevant you can show immediately, don't expect everybody to know about copywriting and the value it has.

When I was eating my kebab I started to google "kebab copywriting" and "restaurant copywriting". I managed to find decent copy about a kebab restaurant but it was on a brochure not a website. Not good.

3. LEAVE THEM WITH SOMETHING. Give tips about how they can improve their current copy, whether it's the slogan on their window or their current web copy, or the flier they give people or the copy on the sign they have in front of the door in the street.

Before I went out the door I just awkwardly stood there for a while because the owner just stood up and went to the kitchen. I didn't know how to end a conversation like this or how to act when someone just stands up and leaves. I felt like a moron.


But it was good practice for me, I'm glad I went out and didn't stay home like loser.

Not picking up the phone still makes me a little bit mad, though.

Yes, "leave something behind to keep talking to them when you're gone. Preferably the thing you used to "Show, don't tell."

Thanks for the honest writeups. Good learnings. Well done.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

Yes, "leave something behind to keep talking to them when you're gone. Preferably the thing you used to "Show, don't tell."

Thanks for the honest writeups. Good learnings. Well done.

Thanks @Andy Black, lessons were learned. It's funny how I never even thought about these things but during the conversation I was like "Hell, why didn't I prepare for this, shit I have nothing to show".

By the way @Andy Black and @Nicoknowsbest, when you guys started your businesses did you immediately set some kind of monetary goals or milestones for your business?

For example: "In the next 30 days I try to make 1000$" or "In the next 30 days I will try to get 2 customers"

I feel a little bit like I'm just calling everyone without a definite goal.

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

By the way @Andy Black and @Nicoknowsbest, when you guys started your businesses did you immediately set some kind of monetary goals or milestones for your business?

Check @Andy Black's quotes in his signature:

“Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you.” - Mother Theresa

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

Go and dig for some of @SinisterLex's posts.

What I recently learned from him is to go after the right client, not just any client.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

Check @Andy Black's quotes in his signature:

“Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you.” - Mother Theresa

@Nicoknowsbest True, damn I think you guys already told me that in previous posts, sorry for asking the same question!

Go and dig for some of @SinisterLex's posts.

What I recently learned from him is to go after the right client, not just any client.

I tried searching the forum but couldn't find the thread. Was it a separate post? I'd like to take a look at it but haven't found it yet.

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

I tried searching the forum but couldn't find the thread. Was it a separate post? I'd like to take a look at it but haven't found it yet.

It's not one specific post, but rather a development I saw recently.

Some of it might be on the inside (INSIDERS's section of the forum) though.

He linked to his private Facebook group in his signature and there this was the topic of discussion recently - go and join.

Let me know if you find what you are looking for!

P.S.: Any feedback from that prospect?

 

[TomW]

It's not one specific post, but rather a development I saw recently.

Some of it might be on the inside (INSIDERS's section of the forum) though.

He linked to his private Facebook group in his signature and there this was the topic of discussion recently - go and join.

Let me know if you find what you are looking for!

P.S.: Any feedback from that prospect?

@Nicoknowsbest Okay. I deleted my Facebook account a year ago because of the noise.

I may be putting it up again if there are other golden groups like @SinisterLex's though!

I found something similar: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/need-help-with-pricing-negotiating.71622/

I know the thread is mainly about pricing and all that stuff (which isn't my main concern at the moment ) but there are also things said about how the right client sees the value in what you are doing for them.

Great read in my opinion.

Actually he hasn't responded to me yet, I sent him a text message yesterday. I'll call him tomorrow and let you know how it went!

I'm currently looking for local businesses on Google Maps and their websites to see if there's something I can help them with or improve.

I'm also going to get back to the newspaper ads I found at the library last week.

Thanks for the help again @Nicoknowsbest!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

@Nicoknowsbest @Andy Black I called the prospect today and he sounded excited when he remembered what we discussed a week ago.

He had seen the examples I sent.

He was in a middle of a meeting so the call wasn't long, we agreed that I'll call him on Monday.

I've been stalking local business' websites and I have to say there are opportunities out there.

Law firms without proper slogans...

An academy with bad quality pictures on their website...

Almost none of the accounting firms in the area have any kind of slogan and neither do law firms.

I think those businesses are among the best to write slogans for.

For inspiration here are two links that contain hilarious and very effective slogans for law and accounting firms:

Law firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/124-catchy-law-firm-slogans-and-attorney-taglines/

Accounting firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/list-42-catchy-accounting-slogans-and-taglines/

I'm also going to keep my eyes open while walking the streets for poorly written signs...

 

[Andy Black]

@Nicoknowsbest @Andy Black I called the prospect today and he sounded excited when he remembered what we discussed a week ago.

He had seen the examples I sent.

He was in a middle of a meeting so the call wasn't long, we agreed that I'll call him on Monday.

I've been stalking local business' websites and I have to say there are opportunities out there.

Law firms without proper slogans...

An academy with bad quality pictures on their website...

Almost none of the accounting firms in the area have any kind of slogan and neither do law firms.

I think those businesses are among the best to write slogans for.

For inspiration here are two links that contain hilarious and very effective slogans for law and accounting firms:

Law firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/124-catchy-law-firm-slogans-and-attorney-taglines/

Accounting firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/list-42-catchy-accounting-slogans-and-taglines/

I'm also going to keep my eyes open while walking the streets for poorly written signs...

There's so much money circulating within 50m of where you're sat. All you have to do is get some of it to flow through you. (It's called currency for a reason right?)

Maybe even try listing everything wrong with their marketing efforts and rattle off what they could do to solve them?

Say you can get it done for them if they want, starting with their tagline which you think doesn't do them justice?

What I'm finding is that some businesses just want a done-for-you service. They want a go-to person for all their marketing needs - AdWords, landing pages, website, infographics, logos, email newsletters, eCommerce site design, etc.

 

[TomW]

There's so much money circulating within 50m of where you're sat. All you have to do is get some of it to flow through you. (It's called currency for a reason right?)

Maybe even try listing everything wrong with their marketing efforts and rattle off what they could do to solve them?

Say you can get it done for them if they want, starting with their tagline which you think doesn't do them justice?

What I'm finding is that some businesses just want a done-for-you service. They want a go-to person for all their marketing needs - AdWords, landing pages, website, infographics, logos, email newsletters, eCommerce site design, etc.

@Andy Black You are absolutely right. I have a 10 million supercar dealership business right below me!

https://www.instagram.com/autoliikemarkosipila/?hl=fi
http://www.markosipila.fi/

You are right about being the go-to guy.

I don't have that much experience about designing things but I think I could outsource it. Or just simply learn the basics and work it up from there.

I could list things that don't work for the business owner or things that are just plain wrong, explain it to them and ask if they want me to take care of it.

It could be like a bundle just like @TheGrind said in earlier posts.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

The 10 million € super car biz below me!

 

[TomW]

Gotta admit, I've been lazy for over a week and picked up the phone until today.

I called the man I've been trying to reach who knows how many times. He was again in the middle of a meeting.

We agreed that I call him tomorrow 1 pm.

It's been difficult to get into conversation with him, if it doesn't work tomorrow I'm going to let this one go and move to the next one.

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

Gotta admit, I've been lazy for over a week and picked up the phone until today.

I called the man I've been trying to reach who knows how many times. He was again in the middle of a meeting.

We agreed that I call him tomorrow 1 pm.

It's been difficult to get into conversation with him, if it doesn't work tomorrow I'm going to let this one go and move to the next one.

The customers that are hardest to get are the ones that are easiest to keep. Think of it form a competitor's perspective: Will a competitor want to come in and compete if it's too much work?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

The customers that are hardest to get are the ones that are easiest to keep. Think of it form a competitor's perspective: Will a competitor want to come in and compete if it's too much work?

True, I haven't thought about it this way, thanks @AgainstAllOdds

 

[TomW]

I was able to reach the man and we talked for quite long. We didn't agree on anything though, but he told me that he likes the ideas I've told him.

He asked me to send the samples for him again and that's what I did.

I haven't reach back at him again yet but I'll call him next week.

I feel like I have problems in moving the conversation further towards closing. There's a lot of chit chat during the phone calls. Is there a possibility that I bore him out or that he isn't as interested as he seems?

Here's what I've suggested for him:

1. Better newspaper ad. (I found his ad on a newspaper. That made me contact him in the first place. I got help from @Nicoknowsbest and we made a better looking ad for him. I sent the ad to him as a sample).

2. Email campaign. (I suggested that he creates an email campaign on his website where he could teach his prospects about his product, how to use is and so on).

3. Testimonials. (There was no testimonials from satisfied customers. I told him that adding testimonials for everyone to see creates trustworthiness and will most likely boost sales).

4. Better product pictures. (When I was looking for pictures of his product online I couldn't find any high resolution pics nor pics from different angles).

 

[TomW]

Now that I wrote the earlier post it got me thinking...

The only sample I sent to him was about the newspaper ad.

Maybe I could get him more excited if I sent him samples of the emails that could be on the campaign and better pictures of his products?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

"Next week" was actually two weeks later...

Last Sunday I made him a sample of a welcoming letter for the email campaign, I called him a few moments ago but he was busy so I'm going to call him again in an hour and ask if he has seen the sample.

I'm also going to ask him what he thought about the earlier samples I sent him but I'm afraid I'll just have to send them once more because it's been so long since I talked to him last time, I think he has forgotten about them. It's been 5 F*cking weeks.

Things have been moving very slowly, mostly because I have been procrastinating so much lately. I haven't made any calls to other potential clients.

I finished two books this month. Think and Grow Rich and Rich Dad Poor Dad. I didn't enjoy TAGR as much as I thought I would but RDPD was excellent in my opinion, I finished it in two days.

I canceled my Playstation subscription and started working about 5 days a week 3 weeks ago. I'm already feeling much more energetic which is great.

I'm going to start calling this prospect more often and really try to move things forward, it's about time I close this client for good.

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

I'm going to start calling this prospect more often and really try to move things forward, it's about time I close this client for good.

Don't get stuck with one client.

If he doesn't want to work with you, move on.

Don't push it.

Look for others!

Go Go Go!

 

[TomW]

Don't get stuck with one client.

If he doesn't want to work with you, move on.

Don't push it.

Look for others!

Go Go Go!

@Nicoknowsbest You are right, I may have used more time with this guy than I should. I will call him soon again, if it's another yadda yadda phone call then I will leave it at that and start looking for others.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Nicoknowsbest]

I will leave it at that and start looking for others.

What holds you back to start looking today?

Who can you help within the next hour?

Don't look too far.

Sometimes things are right under your nose

 

[iizu]

Great to see another Finn! The double-windows on your picture gave you away, you don't see those in other countries

Anyway.. I was just thinking that while you are already working in the logistics, why not write copy/make websites for that industry?
I suggest reading Fox's thread here: GOLD - How to Learn Code, Start a Web Company, $15k+ per month within 9 months

He is targeting big players in old industries and he is killing it. Plenty of opportunities like that in Finland.

Good luck and don't give up!

 

[TomW]

What holds you back to start looking today?

@Nicoknowsbest Nothing really, but I thought I should focus on only one person at the time.

Who can you help within the next hour?

Hell, almost anyone.

Sometimes things are right under your nose

I've checked my relatives, no one needing copy at the moment. If you are implying something, I'm not getting it, help me out

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[TomW]

Great to see another Finn! The double-windows on your picture gave you away, you don't see those in other countries

Anyway.. I was just thinking that while you are already working in the logistics, why not write copy/make websites for that industry?
I suggest reading Fox's thread here: GOLD - How to Learn Code, Start a Web Company, $15k+ per month within 9 months

He is targeting big players in old industries and he is killing it. Plenty of opportunities like that in Finland.

Good luck and don't give up!

@iizu Great to see you too! Lol, you are right, they are there to keep the cruel winter in check.

I thought I already read the thread but now when I look at it, it's totally new to me, reading it at the moment.

Writing copy for stevedoring and logistic companies haven't even crossed my mind for some reason, thanks for dropping the golden nuggets!

 

[TomW]

@iizu With a quick google search was able to find this TurkuSteve

Site definitely needs work...