Dressing For Success... Stop looking like a fool.

[Rabby]

I've worked places that required suits, and I've worked in startups.
Wearing a suit changed me. I was more effective, organized and efficient. I spoke recently with a former executive of Anheuser-Busch and he said the same thing. He was a different person with the suit on.

Quick story about dressing the part:
He told me at the time he worked out of Denver.

His first sales call was in California. He flew coach, stayed at a Holiday Inn near the airport, rented a compact car. He turned in his expense report on a Friday.

That Sunday, he gets a call early in the morning that the Executive Vice President wants to talk to him Monday morning, they had a flight booked for him to St. Louis already. He gets to the airport around 11, and finds he's got a first-class ticket. He flies out to St. Louis, a limo picks him up, and he finds they booked him at the Four Seasons that night.

Monday morning, the Executive Vice President has this expense report on the desk, and asks this sales executive, "How do we do things at Anheuser-Busch?"

Executive: "The right way?"

Executive Vice President: "NO. We do things FIRST CLASS here. Why do you think we sent out a stylist and purchased all those expensive suits for you? When you fly first class, you meet the kind of people we want to know and do business with. When you're having a nightcap at the Four Seasons, you'll run into someone who owns a franchise, or a resort. A potential account. At the Holiday Inn bar, you're going to be talking to the Fuller Brush man. It's about the people you associate with, and the opportunity it creates. From now on, EVERYWHERE you go, you fly first class. You stay in the best hotels. I don't want to see any more expense reports like this."

This was in the 80s, but the point still resonates. Associate yourself with the kind of people that create opportunity for you and them. If you're looking to do business with first-class people, you need to look the part, whatever that may be.

I love this story. Although I don't always dress in suits (it's 100 degrees here), or even try to impress people much, I think this is very true. Out of pure lust for comfort I stay in 5 star hotels and belong to "business clubs" that serve ridiculously good food. You'd never guess who I meet as a side effect of being in those places. And... well most of them have dress codes of some sort, so they force me to look like a civilized barbarian.

 

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[PapaGang]

Yeah I love that story too. This guy is my boss and mentor, but his stories are incredible. I could launch a podcast with the first dozen episodes dedicated to him and his tales. He's had a crazy life, but he's also a great mentor.

I like your philosophy about staying in 5 star hotels. This should be a goal of mine at some point.

 

[Mutant]

Worth mentioning: the best fashion advice that you'll ever get is to develop a good weightlifting routine.

Good article on presenting that case here: The Ideal Physique For Maximizing Your Style

I have a friend who started lifting - a slim guy then & a slim guy now - you don't need to get huge. But I swear lifting subtly changed the shape of his shoulders in such a way that it looked like he had different (better!) bone structure!
It literally made it look like he had better genes.

And if anyone doesn't think that's part of how people judge you (including non-sexually) then head on over to amazon, look up Beauty Pays: Why Attractive People Are More Successful by Daniel S. Hamermesh & skim through the 'look inside' feature. Even the table of contents should provide you with the idea that yes, how you look influences every outcome in life (to a degree). I don't even know if it covers the many studies about teachers giving better looking pupils more help, or forgiving mis-behaviour more easily, or workers more readily following an attractive leader as their CEO, or voting for the better looking person, or better looking people being more likely to get better outcomes when they're a defendant in a court of law, etc. etc. (all studies I've seen mentioned somewhere or other).

It all feeds into people's perception of you, which is what we're doing by carefully picking these clothes in this thread.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

But I swear lifting subtly changed the shape of his shoulders in such a way that it looked like he had different (better!) bone structure!
It literally made it look like he had better genes.

Making serious progress in weightlifting requires addressing all of the horrible posture problems that people accumulate in this sedentary society; and that alone makes you look significantly more muscular.

Hell, I've seen people on various fitness subreddits post "before" and "after" pictures where all they did was correct their posture.

Literally everything about your life improves when you are good at weightlifting. And women should do it too.

Edit:

Tom Platz (quote below starts at 5:50):

"... I'd be some homeless guy in Detroit if it wasn't for bodybuilding. It gave me a life. So right now, it's not about the money, I don't care about the money, it's not about gaining position as a bodybuilding player in the business, it's about just giving back to something that really gave me a lot, it gave me a life. And that's the reason I'm here."

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Good article on presenting that case here: The Ideal Physique For Maximizing Your Style

I have a friend who started lifting - a slim guy then & a slim guy now - you don't need to get huge. But I swear lifting subtly changed the shape of his shoulders in such a way that it looked like he had different (better!) bone structure!
It literally made it look like he had better genes.

And if anyone doesn't think that's part of how people judge you (including non-sexually) then head on over to amazon, look up Beauty Pays: Why Attractive People Are More Successful by Daniel S. Hamermesh & skim through the 'look inside' feature. Even the table of contents should provide you with the idea that yes, how you look influences every outcome in life (to a degree). I don't even know if it covers the many studies about teachers giving better looking pupils more help, or forgiving mis-behaviour more easily, or workers more readily following an attractive leader as their CEO, or voting for the better looking person, or better looking people being more likely to get better outcomes when they're a defendant in a court of law, etc. etc. (all studies I've seen mentioned somewhere or other).

It all feeds into people's perception of you, which is what we're doing by carefully picking these clothes in this thread.

The awesome thing about this is that it proves you can influence how attractive you are.
So +1 for attractiveness boosting your success, +2 for being able to change how you look.
That's a win-win.

But yeah like in my other comment, shoulders alone make a HUGE difference in your appearance. I still don't have abs but bigger shoulders matter haha

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

The awesome thing about this is that it proves you can influence how attractive you are.

things that you can do to improve your physical attractiveness (beyond the gym)

• Spend more time in the sun and get a tan
• Change your hairstyle / facial hair
• Improve your skin by doing the following:
  • Drink more water
  • Eat less processed food (ideally, none)
  • Eat higher nutrient food
  • Get better sleep

Most people are significantly less attractive than they should be just because they don't even try to take care of themselves. You can look dramatically different by doing any of the above.

Edit:

Videos like these are great.

 

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[Kak]

Just a heads up for everyone... If you ever see yourself donning a suit again in your life, now might be the time to pick up a nice one.

Jos A Bank has suits for $89 right now... Some are even the "Reserve" line which happen to be American made and half canvassed. Not imported polyester junk.

I have one of these Reserve suits and they are normally like $600-800 and they are very nice. They are up to par with my Brooks Brothers 1818 stuff. For $89, see if there is anything in your size. I bought a dark blue pin stripe.

The Reserve dress shirts are also very nice. BTW.

With these prices, there is really no excuse for looking like a fool when interacting in a business capacity.

 

[Ocean Man]

Just a heads up for everyone... If you ever see yourself donning a suit again in your life, now might be the time to pick up a nice one.

Jos A Bank has suits for $89 right now... Some are even the "Reserve" line which happen to be American made and half canvassed. Not imported polyester junk.

I have one of these Reserve suits and they are normally like $600-800 and they are very nice. They are up to par with my Brooks Brothers 1818 stuff. For $89, see if there is anything in your size. I bought a dark blue pin stripe.

The Reserve dress shirts are also very nice. BTW.

With these prices, there is really no excuse for looking like a fool when interacting in a business capacity.

Thanks for letting us know, @Kak!

 

[Deleted50669]

Just a heads up for everyone... If you ever see yourself donning a suit again in your life, now might be the time to pick up a nice one.

Jos A Bank has suits for $89 right now... Some are even the "Reserve" line which happen to be American made and half canvassed. Not imported polyester junk.

I have one of these Reserve suits and they are normally like $600-800 and they are very nice. They are up to par with my Brooks Brothers 1818 stuff. For $89, see if there is anything in your size. I bought a dark blue pin stripe.

The Reserve dress shirts are also very nice. BTW.

With these prices, there is really no excuse for looking like a fool when interacting in a business capacity.

good catch!

 

[advantagecp]

Just a heads up for everyone... If you ever see yourself donning a suit again in your life, now might be the time to pick up a nice one.

Jos A Bank has suits for $89 right now... Some are even the "Reserve" line which happen to be American made and half canvassed. Not imported polyester junk.

I have one of these Reserve suits and they are normally like $600-800 and they are very nice. They are up to par with my Brooks Brothers 1818 stuff. For $89, see if there is anything in your size. I bought a dark blue pin stripe.

The Reserve dress shirts are also very nice. BTW.

With these prices, there is really no excuse for looking like a fool when interacting in a business capacity.

Then take the next step and have an experienced tailor alter the suit to fit you perfectly. Once you reach at least adequate on the quality scale, and these JAB suits reach that, remember the cardinal rule of dressing well (applies especially to suits) : Fit trumps quality.

The vast majority of men take an off the rack suit and have no adjustments made to make it fit. This leads to a generally sloppy look, often baggy, with a concentric ridge behind the collar, sleeves too long... The list goes on.

The fact is that if you buy one of these decent JAB suits and have it tailored to fit, you will look far better than the guy with a poorly-fitting $4000 Kiton suit.

 

[Kak]

Then take the next step and have an experienced tailor alter the suit to fit you perfectly. Once you reach at least adequate on the quality scale, and these JAB suits reach that, remember the cardinal rule of dressing well (applies especially to suits) : Fit trumps quality.

The vast majority of men take an off the rack suit and have no adjustments made to make it fit. This leads to a generally sloppy look, often baggy, with a concentric ridge behind the collar, sleeves too long... The list goes on.

The fact is that if you buy one of these decent JAB suits and have it tailored to fit, you will look far better than the guy with a poorly-fitting $4000 Kiton suit.

This is true.

I happen to be lucky, the "tailored fit" from JAB or "regent fit" from BB which is broader shoulders than waist, but not a slim fit, works well on me.

I usually only need to get the jacket sleeves and pants hemmed.

Sleeves too long is a dead giveaway.

 

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[advantagecp]

Sleeves too long is a dead giveaway.

It's almost universal. The wearer either doesn't know what the sleeve length should be or says "close enough". It's not close enough. It's probably way too long. There is a reason that the sleeve buttons for most good-quality suits come in a plastic bag which is in an inside suit jacket pocket.

 

[Kak]

It came in today. Beautiful wool and I like the pick stitching on the lapels. I am excited to get it tailored.

With all of my working out, its probably going to be my best looking suit despite the 90 bucks I paid for it.

 

[tunderenner]

It has come to my attention that few people give this enough thought.

A common theme of my posts is thinking big and leadership. Both of these REQUIRE interaction with other people. Sure you can build some onepreneur super outsourced company and make good money... But the VAST majority of the extremely wealthy got that way by making strategic deals, establishing influence and leading others.

Which brings me to LOOKING THE PART. It's popular, and often considered a badge of honor, in entrepreneurial circles to not own a suit, to almost intentionally dress like shit and not give a f*ck. To that, I ask, why? To what end?

I have learned how to dress properly when interacting with influential politicians and high-level C suite executives of very large companies. I have learned how to dress properly when I have to approach the lower offices with hourly workers. From formal meetings to business lunches, I have done it all. To say looking professional in every single interaction pertaining to your business is important would be an understatement.

Now, I'm no expert, but I am observant and have years of experience meeting people in person. There is no excuse not to look your best and present like someone who can back up the talk. It also doesn't have to be expensive.

Ask me anything.

I agree with you completely! There’s a saying that goes, ‘your appearance will get you through the door, your competence will keep you in the room. First impressions are made pretty fast, most times we’re not given a second chance to express what we have to offer.

 

[tunderenner]

I won't even pretend for a second that I know what its like to be Mark Zuckerberg. Those of you that know me absolutely know that I am not out to appease others, however, professionalism and dressing the part is absolutely in my best interest.

Hell, it is probably in Zuckerbergs best interest too, whether he cares or not. He can afford not to, but most on this forum, like myself, can't.

Have you noticed that even Zuckerberg leaves his T-shirt, jeans and sneakers at home, and opts for a dressier look - gray suit, and a formal shirt - when he has to make appearances/honor invitations at congressional hearings?

 

[ljean]

I didnt know people still wore suits haha. My local Jos A Bank closed this year.

 

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[tunderenner]

LOL i thought girls were mostly into this stuff since if a girl is dressed ugly no one will look at her. Now you’re all overthinking shit, if youre a man just have normal short hair, and dress as you want, exactly as you want , not how some smart a$$ on youtube will give you advice. And LOL at meeting with politicians, just another corrupt bunch that licks each other’s balls and just make money by shitting on people, and you have to impress them, really ? Anyone who is asking how to dress clearly wants to impress, but who cares about impressions

@jackwilder94...The truth is, you dress the way you want to be addressed. If you want to get a taste of of how lepers were treated in biblical times, wear a T-shirt, shorts and flip flops to a business meeting or job interview.

LOL i thought girls were mostly into this stuff since if a girl is dressed ugly no one will look at her. Now you’re all overthinking shit, if youre a man just have normal short hair, and dress as you want, exactly as you want , not how some smart a$$ on youtube will give you advice. And LOL at meeting with politicians, just another corrupt bunch that licks each other’s balls and just make money by shitting on people, and you have to impress them, really ? Anyone who is asking how to dress clearly wants to impress, but who cares about impressions

LOL i thought girls were mostly into this stuff since if a girl is dressed ugly no one will look at her. Now you’re all overthinking shit, if youre a man just have normal short hair, and dress as you want, exactly as you want , not how some smart a$$ on youtube will give you advice. And LOL at meeting with politicians, just another corrupt bunch that licks each other’s balls and just make money by shitting on people, and you have to impress them, really ? Anyone who is asking how to dress clearly wants to impress, but who cares about impressions

 

[tunderenner]

This is important. Don't own a solid black suit unless you're a limo driver or a bouncer.

Or you’re going for a funeral.

 

[advantagecp]

@jackwilder94...The truth is, you dress the way you want to be addressed. If you want to get a taste of of how lepers were treated in biblical times, wear a T-shirt, shorts and flip flops to a business meeting or job interview.

Truth. If you want to be dismissed as a lightweight jerkoff just dress like one when you meet with others. Dressing poorly shows disrespect.

 

[tunderenner]

Anything magical that you do with your dress shoes if your feet sweat in them? I find dress shoes to lack in the breathability department, and when I am wearing a pair it is generally for the whole day.

Swamp foot is not cool.

@GPM... The solution is to invest in good leather shoes. Breathability, another name for ‘wicking’, is one of the special properties of leather. Wicking is a process where moist is expelled out of the shoe in the form of vapour. You should also invest in good cotton socks. They help absorb moisture. For the funk, get oddballs. And don’t wear the same shoe two days straight. They need at least 24 hours to air out.

 

[tunderenner]

A bit defensive, eh? This is a business and entrepreneurship forum. If someone is going to give style advice here it only makes sense to see how they personally dress.


Eh, just seems silly. Would you take fitness advice from someone you’ve never seen just because they sound knowledgeable?

Makes a lot of sense.

 

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[tunderenner]

Makes a lot of sense.

@CDNY...

 

[tunderenner]

I write about clothes (men’s), so I try to practice what I preach

 

[tunderenner]

Pocket squares are very rare for me. Black suits have also fallen out of need. Like we have discussed earlier in this thread, they end up making you look like a waiter or limo driver.

Agreed about "fancy" nothing flashy ever. You don't want to draw attention to your clothes EVER. You want clothes to basically be part of you and your leadership. To support your goals Just part of the bigger picture.

@Kak... I agree with you. Black is not really a good color for a business suit.

 

[Kak]

@Kak... I agree with you. Black is not really a good color for a business suit.

Yes, I wore a dark gray suit to a funeral a week ago, I didn't even need a black for that.

Now... I have a black tux for black tie events. Totally different deal.

 

[Kak]

@CDNY...

You look great man! Super classy.

 

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[tunderenner]

I understand the concept of this thread and agree with the importance of dressing properly for each situation, BUT where are the pictures of some of your outfits @Kak?

I’m not trying to out you, but it seems silly to take style advice on a forum where barely anyone here even knows what you look/dress like.

@CDNY... I posted some pictures of me for you to see. I try to practice what I preach.

 

[tunderenner]

Yes, I wore a dark gray suit to a funeral a week ago, I didn't even need a black for that.

Now... I have a black tux for black tie events. Totally different deal.

@Kak... Very cool

 

[tunderenner]

Do you have any tips/advice for bespoke suits & shirts? I don't know any of the insights etc..



In regards some of the posts about looking like a fool, the way I see it is that it's part of a hidden "conversation" you have with people before you engage with them. If you genuinely want to succeed, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get there, I think dressing with a modicum of professionalism is a prerequisite.

Maybe it's not for everyone (drug dealers would look out of place in a suit) - but for people managing assets - dealing with banks/investors/clients who may wish to part with $100,000's - dressing like you have considered the impression you put across is important.

That's only my take - I think everyone has a different perspective depending on the environment in which they work. I've found *many* people actually don't want to deal with $100,000 deals - they are in it for the journey and put that across with the perceived nonchalance of their dress code. In respect to @Kak, if he's someone who deals with C-Level (which requires dressing to impress)... I would take what he mentions in regard to moving in that world. If you're a hot-shot graphic designer, then - yes - wearing a suit would make you a douchebag (in that world).

--

I took this several years ago, legit or nah?

@RPEK90... I agree with you. Where you work will determine, to a great extent, how you dress. The creatives who are almost always behind their computers, would most likely feel uncomfortable and out of place wearing a suit. That said, a suit, shirt and tie are the standard business uniform. Being a creative is really not a license to look like a slob. What stops you from wearing an unconstructed jacket on a T-shirt, and jeans? You actually feel good when you look good.

Do you have any tips/advice for bespoke suits & shirts? I don't know any of the insights etc..



In regards some of the posts about looking like a fool, the way I see it is that it's part of a hidden "conversation" you have with people before you engage with them. If you genuinely want to succeed, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get there, I think dressing with a modicum of professionalism is a prerequisite.

Maybe it's not for everyone (drug dealers would look out of place in a suit) - but for people managing assets - dealing with banks/investors/clients who may wish to part with $100,000's - dressing like you have considered the impression you put across is important.

That's only my take - I think everyone has a different perspective depending on the environment in which they work. I've found *many* people actually don't want to deal with $100,000 deals - they are in it for the journey and put that across with the perceived nonchalance of their dress code. In respect to @Kak, if he's someone who deals with C-Level (which requires dressing to impress)... I would take what he mentions in regard to moving in that world. If you're a hot-shot graphic designer, then - yes - wearing a suit would make you a douchebag (in that world).

--

I took this several years ago, legit or nah?

 

[tunderenner]

@RPEK90... I agree with you. Where you work will determine, to a great extent, how you dress. The creatives who are almost always behind their computers, would most likely feel uncomfortable and out of place wearing a suit. That said, a suit, shirt and tie are the standard business uniform. Being a creative is really not a license to look like a slob. What stops you from wearing an unconstructed jacket on a T-shirt, and jeans? You actually feel good when you look good.

@RPEK90... Bespoke? Now that is another matter altogether. Bespoke means, ‘before it’s made you speak’. It’s for people that understands clothes, and have the money to shell out. Bespoke clothings are handmade. A proper bespoke suite (not made-to-measure) would require about 2-3 fittings after your measurements are taken. Before the suit is made, you have a say in the choice of fabric, fusing, lining, buttons, vents, etc. They are regarded as remedial clothings because they help hide a multitude of sins on your body. They take into consideration the hand you wear your wristwatch on, your mid-section, if you have a high or low waist, etc. A bespoke suit or shirt would fit like a glove.