Do What You Love And the Money Will Follow!

[yveskleinsky]

Mistake #3. Burning bridges.

Mistake #4. Not knowing the what the F*ck you are talking about.

...But you're right, no one takes ME seriously because I'm the a**hole. lol.

 

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[Runum]

Mistake # 1 : I've read more books on financial education and wealth building than you would ever know. I've also implemented more wealth-building strategies than you would ever know. Guess what? Either they were not as efficient as they were supposed to be or they just didn't work at all. Stop assuming and start asking people what they have and haven't done.

Mistake # 2 : A very condescending attitude will cause people to NOT want to listen to you. For instance, I haven't clicked on the link simply due to the way you presented it.

Didn't you guys learn anything about communicating? You'll get more with honey than with...?

Its like some of you are five freaking years old. You just can't seem to grasp that if you talk condescendingly to anyone, deny anyone's struggle, refuse to listen and blame people that are honestly trying. They WILL NOT TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY. In the long run there are more people struggling than there are wealthy people so you're shooting yourself in the foot by acting in such a manner.

Just "friendly" advice.

Thanks for the friendly advice. You yourself make several incorrect assumptions. You assume that we are here to dispense advice. You assume that we have the keys to something you desire.

I came here to learn and share. I am not someone to follow. I never presented myself as such. People ask for advice. I give it to them free on my terms not theirs. If they choose not to listen, no problem for me. You are trying to project other people's hangups and problems on us.

I am curious. You said someone told you should check out this forum. Who and why? Is it that you love to debate and decided you would come here to set us straight?

 

[NeedFastMoney]

Thanks for the friendly advice. You yourself make several incorrect assumptions. You assume that we are here to dispense advice. You assume that we have the keys to something you desire.

I came here to learn and share. I am not someone to follow. I never presented myself as such. People ask for advice. I give it to them free on my terms not theirs. If they choose not to listen, no problem for me. You are trying to project other people's hangups and problems on us.

I am curious. You said someone told you should check out this forum. Who and why? Is it that you love to debate and decided you would come here to set us straight?

You may not be here to dispense advice but nevertheless that is what occurs daily. As a matter of fact I see MANY articles here wherein people are "giving advice" and obtaining "rep" because of it. So my point is are you pontificating or honestly trying to help?

If you're honestly trying to help then the insults and condescending mannerisms aren't helping your case. Thanks.

 

[yveskleinsky]

I am curious. You said someone told you should check out this forum. Who and why? Is it that you love to debate and decided you would come here to set us straight?

lol, here's the kicker...are you ready? It was ME, I reco'd the forum! lol, and he knows it! I even sent him a welcome message!

Okay guys, lesson learned-- this is the last time I pick up strays and bring them home, I promise. lol

...Runum, what are you doing up so late?

 

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[NeedFastMoney]

lol, here's the kicker...are you ready? It was ME, I reco'd the forum! lol, and he knows it! I even sent him a welcome message!

Okay guys, lesson learned-- this is the last time I pick up strays and bring them home, I promise. lol

...Runum, what are you doing up so late?

Communication = FAIL.

Maturity = FAIL.

Insults and No Idea what's going on in the REAL world = A+

 

[Runum]

lol, here's the kicker...are you ready? It was ME, I reco'd the forum! lol, and he knows it! I even sent him a welcome message!

Okay guys, lesson learned-- this is the last time I pick up strays and bring them home, I promise. lol

...Runum, what are you doing up so late?

I couldn't let you have all the fun. That's OK I've invited my share that didn't find us to be to their liking. No biggie.

 

[yveskleinsky]

You may not be here to dispense advice but nevertheless that is what occurs daily. As a matter of fact I see MANY articles here wherein people are "giving advice" and obtaining "rep" because of it. So my point is are you pontificating or honestly trying to help?

If you're honestly trying to help then the insults and condescending mannerisms aren't helping your case. Thanks.

Dude, you can't come out guns a blazin' and then demand people handle you with kid gloves. It doesn't work that way. You are the one who needs to check the insults and condescending mannerisms as they aren't helping your case--and we don't owe you a damn thing. Respect is EARNED not just blindly given.

 

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[NeedFastMoney]

Dude, you can't come out guns a blazin' and then demand people handle you with kid gloves. It doesn't work that way. You are the one who needs to check the insults and condescending mannerisms as they aren't helping your case--and we don't owe you a damn thing. Respect is EARNED not just blindly given.

SPIN TACTIC = FAIL.

Still using the word "dude" = FAIL.

 

[Runum]

You may not be here to dispense advice but nevertheless that is what occurs daily. As a matter of fact I see MANY articles here wherein people are "giving advice" and obtaining "rep" because of it. So my point is are you pontificating or honestly trying to help?

If you're honestly trying to help then the insults and condescending mannerisms aren't helping your case. Thanks.

I and all the others here, I believe, have been really trying to help. None of us are making any money from giving out help that has been asked for. The benefit has been to establish relationships and learn from each other. We all have shared our stories from our lowest lows and we are still working on our highest highs. Most of us have been where you are. I have had lettuce sandwiches while sitting on the floor of a one room apartment. I have run out of gas waiting in the bank drive through while cashing my check. I have come home to no hot water and no lights. I have lost a car and a house. Been there, done that.

As Yves has suggested. You need to quit posting and do more reading. It's all here for you, at our expense, free for you. What more could you want?

 

[yveskleinsky]

I used the word "dude" as it had a nicer ring than "douche bag", but whatever you prefer.

There is no mystery here as to why you aren't successful. I have seen animals at the zoo with more refined social skills than what you exhibit.

You want advice, here's some advice: Quit your business now. You will never make a dime at what you are doing because the problem lies with you and not your business plan--and you aren't willing to hear it.

 

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[Sparlin]

((( Grabbing Bag of Popcorn)))

Wow... it was getting very climatic, then all of a sudden... BANNED! END of SHOW!

I'm going to chime in ONLY because I wrote to NeedsMoneyFast in one of his threads. In the first post to him, I wrote and tried to give a clear explanation of why I believe he is in the wrong market.

On the second post, I remember responding to his statement that things were bad and he didn't like dealing with cheapskates. I admit that I dispensed advice. However, I don't speak from authority and I tried to make that clear to him. I've tried a few of the things that I suggested, and thought of others as I posted. Some thoughts came from other sources I've read in the past. The point is that my motivation was not to come across as a condescending "know it all", but instead to try to find a solution. I believe he understood that because he was nice enough to give me some rep points.

My experience here in this community, limited as it may be, is that most of the contributors operate from the same mentality. They may not have all the answers, but are willing to try to find them. Then again, there are definitely some experts here. If they are willing to give advice, one should try to heed it. It’s what is done with at advice that indicates the individual’s willingness to learn.

For example, if I walk up to an astronaut and say “Teach me how to go to space”. He may tell me to go learn to pilot a small prop plane. Now I could take that advice and think, “You pompous @$$, you get to fly a rocket and yet you tell me to fly something little!”, or I could take his advice and realize that by learning aviation basics, I will be able to progress on to bigger and more advanced concepts. If he started rambling on about advanced rocket systems, I wouldn’t be able to comprehend them and would just be wasting his time.

Which leads me to this point, why should he take the time? Any advice would be for my gain, not his. If he is not trying to profit from the advice, I should interpret his motivation as being sincere.

Now I was wondering what caused this sudden flash of anger towards the end of the thread. My OPINION is as Yves and Runum alluded to, he is frustrated.
I agree with NeedsMoneyFast on some points regarding the predatory nature of Infomercial Gurus. That being said, I think he failed to make the distinction between those types and the members here. In the two months I've been here, I've not seen anyone directly market expertise (exception to one in the community groups). Instead I've noticed a sincere effort to assist those who are willing to learn.

Yves, when I pulled up the thread it automatically landed on page 4. I initially thought some of the comments were harsh, until I backtracked and read permalink #60 on page 3. That post obviously shows you tried to be helpful and empathizing. What I wonder is if he just opened up on your next post #61 and felt he was being snubbed. Maybe he missed the previous post. Just a thought.:huh2:

 

[Russ H]

And so it goes . . .

-Russ H.

 

[Runum]

The ban I put on him is a temporary, one day ban. My intention is to allow this to cool off and maybe we can reach a solution. I've never tried this before and I don't know if it will work.

I agree, NeedFastMoney, sounds like he's at his wit's end and is just venting. I do hope he sleeps it off and comes back more amicable. Stay tuned.:cheers:

 

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[Sparlin]

(((Warming up More Popcorn )))

I hope he does come back and you guys are able to resolve it. I think a college student could write a whole sociology paper based just on the last two pages of this thread. Staying tuned

 

[yveskleinsky]

(((Warming up More Popcorn )))

I hope he does come back and you guys are able to resolve it. I think a college student could write a whole sociology paper based just on the last two pages of this thread. Staying tuned

lol about the popcorn. ...There is nothing to resolve. I am always open for a friendly debate, or even a friendly disagreement. I don't however stand around and put up with some insane lunatic who can't form a solid argument attacking me. He comes in like a giant pissed off gorilla on steroids, flinging shit, stomping around and wonders why he's not successful.

I don't take kindly to people who approach situations with a "bull in the China shop" attitude and then demand to be treated with kid gloves. F*ck 'em. Who needs 'em?

...And he's not looking for help, or advice or guidance, he's looking for a fight--plain and simple. He sees us as the gurus he's been duped by. Even though no one here is proclaiming to be a guru. If you look at any of the threads he responded to, he only bothered to read about 20% of them and then responded with a total lack of accountability "It's the gurus fault" or he focused on the one or two lines he could twist into continuing some sort of fight. Hell, he made an analogy between the video MJ posted of a rat in the wok to 911.

This guy needs more than any of us can give him--he needs professional help.

 

[Russ H]

Yves-

I'm sure he's gotten more professional help that you or I will ever know.

*************

And some advice I'd like to pass on to NeedFastMoney from me-- using his own words:

Mistake # 1 : You've read more books on financial education and wealth building than we would ever know. You've also implemented more wealth-building strategies than we would ever know. Guess what? Either they were not as efficient as they were supposed to be or they just didn't work for you.

Mistake # 2 : A very condescending attitude will cause people to NOT want to listen to you.

Didn't you learn anything about communicating? You'll get more with honey than with...?

Its like you are five freaking years old. You just can't seem to grasp that if you talk condescendingly to anyone, deny anyone's struggle, refuse to listen and blame people that are honestly trying. They WILL NOT TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.

In the long run there are more people struggling than there are wealthy people so you're shooting yourself in the foot by acting in such a manner.

Just "friendly" advice.

-Russ H.

 

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[Sparlin]

Mental Note to self...

Smile and nod head when Yves speaks... NEVER TICK off

Otherwise,it's like flicking a rattlesnake on the nose, you make get away with it once, but there is Hell to pay if you try it again (jk)

 

[Russ H]

Hell hath no fury like a scorned Yves Klein Sky.

Hey Yves, do you change colors when this happens?

-Russ H.

Scorned Yves Klein Flames:

 

[Sparlin]

Nice Russ. Well, it's getting too Hot in here for me. Time to go to detention (job).

 

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[yveskleinsky]

Hell hath no fury like a scorned Yves Klein Sky.

Hey Yves, do you change colors when this happens?

-Russ H.

Scorned Yves Klein Flames:

...Yes I do change colors--I turn white.

 

[ITA]

Just read this whole thread, here is my 2 cents (and a bit of negativity of my own, hey, this thread is contaminated already anyway :smxB: ):

1. HC (on page 1) was asking how could work not be pain, suffering. It is an issue I've struggled with myself. Only after working on my own business did I start to perceive work as fun, and then again, not always. But at least I'm working on my own thing, on my own terms, taking my own decisions and learning from them. I feel like I'm growing instead of being told what to do and doing it like an automaton. The feeling of freedom and personal growth is probably the most rewarding thing (so far). You just have to reframe the "work" as learning about life, psychology, and yourself, and keeping getting better at it.

2. To NeedMoneyFast: I believe if you fail, it IS your own fault. You may not be able to realize it yet. I'm failing myself, right now - I'm making a living but I'm not making as much as I would like. However, I know it is my own fault.

You are saying "I've read more books and implemented more strategies than you could ever know" and that says a lot about how you think. Mind you, again I could say the same thing - but I've come to realize that this is part of my problem, not something to boast about. If I had read less and tried less things half-assedly, and had taken more action in a focused way, I probably would be further down the road today. My mistake. I was too innocent to understand this back a few years ago. Now I get it (I think).

Also, even if all the "gurus" were 100% con artists (which they are not), and you had been conned, well, wouldn't it still be your own fault? Whose fault would it be?

3. Having said all that...and here is where I would like everyone's feedback, and it also relates to the original (long-forgotten :smxB: ) topic of the thread...I also get, truly get, NeedMoneyFast and HC's points when they say being a small entrepreneur is shitty and you work harder than an employee for what seems like not much more benefits. Every other day I'm wondering if did not make a massive mistake by not staying on as an employee.

This is compounded by the fact that I'm well-educated and could be making 6 figures in a white-collar job (and potentiall 7 figures later on up the ladder). I speak a bunch of languages fluently (which I learned the hard way, not from my parents). I'm good, and really enjoy "big picture", systematic, intellectual thinking, the type you would make in consulting or policy making. Yet right now as a small entrepreneur I'm basically chasing money. Every decision I make and work I do is about getting more money flowing in. It is very prosaic and, you know, just feels a bit dumb. Most of the small entrepreneurs I meet in real life are real good people but, no offense, they just aren't as smart as I am. Yet they are more driven than me and there is a good chance they will end up doing better. Sometimes I wonder if I'm not in the wrong game.

There is a success story in this forum where the poster types a sample of a page from his old journal, and it's a lot of negative self-talk about how he is university-graduated and his peers are successful in Fortune 500 jobs yet he is still broke and trying to make it in another totally crappy venture (selling paintings at the flea market, I believe). This is how I feel quite often. My venture is not totally crappy, but the only way I hang in there is by (1) enjoying the freedom and growth I mentioned above and (2) thinking it's only a stepping stone to something better, part of a learning curve. If the "something better" never happens, I'm going to be pretty crushed.

So, I'm not really doing what I love, and hoping the money will follow. But what if it doesn't? What if I wake up at 40 and realize I've "wasted" my late twenties and thirties working my a$$ off while my friends were partying and holidaying, and all I've got to show for it is gray hair and a business that is making more or less what I could have been making all along as a corporate drone? This thought often keeps me awake at night.

If you haven't slashed your wrists by now I would love to hear your thoughts on the above ;-)

 

[SteveO]

I don't know much about your situation ITA but, there is more than one way to make your programs work.

I have always been in the camp that takes an approach utilizing money as a startup. Do what you do best and make the most money that you can. Spend only what you need to and put the rest to work. Formulate a plan during this time of how you can leverage and put that money to work when the time is right.

There are a lot of doors that are opened with the use of cash.

Nothing wrong with a job that is deemed "temporary".

 

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[AroundTheWorld]

So, I'm not really doing what I love, and hoping the money will follow. But what if it doesn't? What if I wake up at 40 and realize I've "wasted" my late twenties and thirties working my a$$ off while my friends were partying and holidaying, and all I've got to show for it is gray hair and a business that is making more or less what I could have been making all along as a corporate drone? This thought often keeps me awake at night.

That is the choice you make. It is the choice we all make. As a good friend of mine says.... (eh hem - yves) There are no guarantees on this path we have chosen.

1. Maybe we will fail.
2. Maybe we.... no... its a given... we will experience challenges that are much greater than they would be if we stuck with the JOB.

If you can not accept and take personal responsibility for #1 and #2 above, then the life outside the safe secure job is not for you. That is perfectly okay - - - as long as you make that decision for yourself.

If it isn't for you, there is no shame in going back to a job (or never leaving one.) If you can say that you fully accept the possibility of failure... you fully accept that your life will be filled with challenges you can't even imagine... then go for it. But do it knowing that you made the choice. You weighed the risk and the reward and you decided what to do.

 

[yveskleinsky]

3.I also get, truly get, NeedMoneyFast and HC's points when they say being a small entrepreneur is shitty and you work harder than an employee for what seems like not much more benefits. Every other day I'm wondering if did not make a massive mistake by not staying on as an employee.

This is compounded by the fact that I'm well-educated and could be making 6 figures in a white-collar job (and potentiall 7 figures later on up the ladder). I speak a bunch of languages fluently (which I learned the hard way, not from my parents). I'm good, and really enjoy "big picture", systematic, intellectual thinking, the type you would make in consulting or policy making. Yet right now as a small entrepreneur I'm basically chasing money. Every decision I make and work I do is about getting more money flowing in. It is very prosaic and, you know, just feels a bit dumb. Most of the small entrepreneurs I meet in real life are real good people but, no offense, they just aren't as smart as I am. Yet they are more driven than me and there is a good chance they will end up doing better. Sometimes I wonder if I'm not in the wrong game.

Ah! You just stumbled across the intersection between risk and reward! This intersection has claimed many an entrpreneur, including myself at times. Could you spend 20 years trying to get a business off the ground after pouring your life savings into it? Yes. Could you fail. Yes. Would it be crushing? Hell yes. ...But it happens everyday, to entreprenurs at every level of success, expertise and intelligence. I think if you were to ask around, you'd probably find several people on this forum that have experienced a total financial wipeout after putting their blood, sweat and tears into a business, only to see it never "breathe" on its own.

There is no crystal ball out there and there is no magic. Somewhere along the line someone, somewhere started a terrible rumor that having your own business would be easy. That you would simply write up a business plan, get some funding, chart your course, work 40 hours a week and the ride would be smooth sailing--after all you are your own boss and you had this great plan. Then reality sets in. You realize that your business plan is more useful as orgami and this ride to financial freedom is full of challenge after challenge. (Kinda like the difference between reading a book on raising a baby and actually raising a baby lol.) The reality is that most businesses require as much if not more attention that a newborn baby. In the start up stage there is generally a period where you wonder if you'll ever sleep, where all your time and money just went and just how long this stage will last. You spend 80+ hours a week trying to get this needy, resource gobbling baby to quiet down and give you some peace. Sometime this stage lasts for weeks, sometimes for years. ...Now there are some people who have babies who are wonderful. They sleep 18 a day and require very little. ...Actually it's these people who keep the rumor going, lol. Regardless, sometimes you just don't know what you are going to get. You could've had 3 babies prior that were all wonderful and then the 4th does nothing but rattle your confidence in your ability to parent.

I'm not saying this to discourage you, I'm saying this so you know what you are in for, so when you find your "bundle of joy" to be nothing more that something you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, you won't think that it's just you lol. ...Like you said, success often follows the bold. Why? Because the bold stay the course and ride out the infant years; they aren't overwhelmed by the challenges of today, because they stay focused on the point where the baby can become self-sufficient.

At the end of the day, the real question you need to ask yourself isn't really whether or not you can stomach trying, potentially failing and looking back when you are 80 wondering where your time and money went. The question is, can you stomach never trying, never knowing, being 80 and looking back with regrets? If you answer yes to the latter, perhaps you should consider getting something more stable. ...Again, there is nothing wrong with this path--it is 100% personal choice.

 

[hatterasguy]

I'm not bashing anyone. I'm stating the TRUTH. Most of this "be happy when you are starving" crap is for the birds. Now I'm not starving but my point is; No one is going to be happy when they are struggling. Except a fool. When people are in pain they express that pain. And so far what I have seen on wealth building forums is people that pretty much ignore and add to that pain via insult (i.e. Its your fault!). OR they simply ignore all together and play "rich people."

When the reality is most of the people here aren't rich. I'm thankful for the advice I was given BUT it still requires money which I don't have. Why? Because I FOLLOWED bad advice from wealth building gurus that said some of the same things that are being said here. If I would have kept going with the job I'd probably have more money, be less stressed, and have to deal with less moody cornball customers.

Cry me a river. Who said your supposed to enjoy being broke? Making money is hard work and a lot of times you fail.

Stop complaining and get a job if thats what you want.

I don't have the slightest idea as to what kind of business your in. Maybe you should try asking for advice on your company rather than complaining.

 

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[hatterasguy]

The only things that are guaranteed in this life are death and taxes.

You get a chance at success, its not guaranteed. Statisticly you have a what 1% chance? Its small.

Some people make it, some people don't, thats the way it is.

A job is no guarantee either, I have seen people who worked for banks for almost 20 years get fired and now work for $9 an hour in supermarkets....they lost there comfortable six figure middle management jobs and need something. They will never make that money again because they are to old.

 

[wildambitions]

Every other day I'm wondering if did not make a massive mistake by not staying on as an employee.

While walking and talking about recent posts, attitudes and perceptions discussed within this thread this morning I made a simple statement.

Anyone of us can contemplate being an employee verses working to develop a business. But the reality is that there is no more security in a job (especially now-a-days) than that of owning a business... we were all just taught that.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

My girlfriend LOVED what she did. She had a job and enjoyed going to work. In fact, she earned the company an ROI of about 3,000%. She created her own division, earned revenue for the company in excess of $6,000,000 -- they paid her $200K and then one day, the company decides to merge with another company.

Despite her impressive ROI, they canned her.

No job is safe. Job security is an illusion.

And then, to "do what you love" and have someone pull-out the rug from under you is even more frustrating.

After witnessing what corporate America did to my GF, I arrived to new conclusions: Corporate America is driven by self preservation of its internal powerbrokers moreso than by profit motive. If I can save my job by "laying off" profit producers, so be it.

I could write a book just on the ordeal my GF had to endure in the last 6 months.

 

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[Russ H]

MJ-

We saw the same thing here when Mondavi Winery's BOD took over the reins from the family.

BOD wanted to break up all of the elements into little pieces-- they said (optimistically) that they'd be able to get upwards of 700 or 800 million for all of the pieces/parts. Industry analysts said it would be more like $450M, since the value of Mondavi was not in the pieces.

A large corporate conglomerate (Constellation) made a billion dollar offer for the winery and all of its subsidiaries (i.e., no breaking anything up)-- well over what the stock was trading at.

The only hitch? The BOD would have to go buh-bye (since Constellation rightly surmised that they were the cause of all the problems).

Directors voted against it, and never presented it to the stockholders.

2 weeks after the offer, the CEO of Constellation called a press conference where he explained that the offer was on the table, and that they'd been told "no"-- but he wondered if any of the stockholders had heard about it?

Result:

1. Multiple lawsuits by the stockholders against the BOD.
2. Constellation *did* buy Mondavi, without breaking it up.
3. Constellation had to pay about $30M more than they originally offered.

I've always wonderd if that extra $30M was used to pay off the BOD . . .

-Russ H.

 

[kwerner]

I know I'm a couple days late coming to this thread, but the argument between our members and the banned douchebag is a CLASSIC - pages 3-5 truly belong in the funny section.

*Headline - Don't piss off Yves

I love this place!