Conquering depression

[heavy_industry]

I love this forum and the amazing ideas that are being discussed over here. I've learned a lot and got inspired by other's stories of success. I used to post a lot and I was very optimistic and tried to encourage other users when they were posting about struggling in their life.

In the last few months I haven't made any meaningful progress towards achieving my goals, and in the last weeks my mental health went on a downwards spiral, and I'm heading towards a horrible depression (already half way there).

Long story short: I don't sleep well, I've gained 10 pounds, I look like crap, I can't focus, I get distracted, and I live with a horrible sense of dread and lingering feeling that it's "too late" (I'm in my late 20s).

Now it's time to take my own advice and take back control over my F*cking life. I am the only one responsible for my health.

Here is the protocol that I will be following for the next 30 days:

• 6 AM wake up time
• running in the morning
• cold shower
• Wim Hof breathing
• no worthless internet entertainment to fry up my brain
• powerlifting 3 times / week
• quitting nicotine

At first, this may seem like a list of the regular self-help BS habits that people try for a few days and then give up because it's too hard. But it's not. All of those things are scientifically proven to alter your brain and body physiology for the better. There are observable neurological changes for practicing those things.

It's hard to do all those things for a month, but the alternative is worst. Depression is a special kind of hell that I am not going back to.

I'm making this thread both as a means of being accountable for my actions, track my progress, and hopefully inspire others that are struggling as well.

The life you are living is your own creation. You can choose either heaven or hell, and you vote with your daily actions. Let's begin.

 

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[heavy_industry]

@Matt Lee @sev969 @p.m @Guyfieri5 @Kak @Antifragile @Andy Black @S.Y. @999michaelh @MTF @Gavingonz @MaxT @Brissy @DavidePaco00 @PetitBourgeoisie @Martin Z @Gavingonz @Happyheart @AceVentures @DougRMR @joel.nilsson @SamRussell

The 30 days are over. Here is my conclusion:

Health, and mental health in particular, is the most important asset that we have and is the foundation of everything else in our lives. If this fundamental pillar of our existence fails, everything else in our lives crumbles like a house of cards.

This is not something to be taken lightly.

Even if I've failed to achieve maximum consistency in the habits that I've tried to pursue, I've certainly moved the needle in the right direction. And at least I've done something. And doing something beats the hell out of 0. This was a first good step taken in the right direction.

Health is multifaceted, it's a complex problem. But I strongly believe that the food we eat is foundational for our health. The kind of garbage being sold in the supermarkets, filled with sugar and rancid industrial oils, might not be conducive to good mental health. Eating those food-like items produces systemic inflammation affects all the organs in the body, and I don't think there's any reason to believe that the brain is somehow spared from this harm.

I'm not saying that junk food is unanimously responsible for all the evils in the world, but I don't think that the diabetes, obesity, and mental health crisis epidemic that we face in the western world are just a coincidence. I will continue to experiment with nutrition and fasting and measure the health outcomes.

I would like to thank everybody that has supported me throughout this journey. I was astonished by the kindness of this wonderful community.

Thank you.

 

[Kak]

I live with a horrible sense of dread and lingering feeling that it's "too late" (I'm in my late 20s).

I applaud what you’re doing here. Keep killing it man.

Now, this comment needs addressed. Whether or not you truly believe this or if it’s just a depressive thought that creeps in, you should be encouraged.

These are the years we lay the groundwork. A strong foundation to build upon as time goes on.

I understand a big premise of the millionaire fastlane is to be able to have it sooner, but that doesn’t change the fact that your highest earning years are certainly ahead of you. Businesses mature over time. Assets accumulate and begin to to pay you. The pay increases, assets appreciate more, businesses mature more, investments become legitimate income…

Our wisdom and leadership capability also builds over time.

A life of entrepreneurship, intentional finances, and self-control ages like a fine wine brother!

Except for, of course, the keyboard slappers that insist on onepreneurship.

You’ve got this.

I believe most of us will make more money in old age, without or barely working, than we ever make in our 20s and 30s busting our asses.

 

[heavy_industry]

Hope your journey's been going good @heavy_industry !

It's been going better than I could have imagined.

Week by week I am feeling better and I've made more progress in the last 5 months than I've did in the last 3 years.


Keys to happiness:

• Hard F*cking training
• Eating well
• Sleeping well
• Understanding that your life is your own making
• Meaning and purpose
• Constant progress towards living your dreams

For anyone reading this that may be struggling right now:

There is light at the end of the tunnel. If you do the right things, in just a few short months, life will be so wonderful you wouldn't be able to believe it.

Depression is a scam.
Let's F*cking conquer it.

 

[Guyfieri5]

Thank you for sharing this. I deal with the same exact thing and have posted about it in the past. I'm anxious to see you work through this depression and do something great. The regimen you have outlined is an amazing start. Here are some additional things that have helped me:

- Find meaning in the things you are already doing and give your best effort. What I mean by this is no matter how menial the task, do it with purpose and pride. For example, if you're an accountant, do it to the best of your ability and take pride in your skill as a great accountant. Each dollar you earn is well earned and some.

- Train your body with purpose. For me, it is always one thing to just train for the sake of my health. I usually don't hang on to my plan and fall off again and again. My solution for this has been to sign up for events and force myself to show up. Events like races and tournaments force me to show up, not just for my health, but for my own achievement toward a tangible goal like time or completion. It's hard to miss a run when you have a marathon in two months.

- It is only too late when you're dead. I know you've heard the line it's never too late many times and it seems like a worn-out platitude. The truth is, it may be too late to become a piano prodigy, NFL quarterback, or Olympic swimmer. It is not too late, however, to wake up every day and decide to give your best effort toward every task you've assigned yourself. To be alive is the greatest gift you have and is a reminder that you have another chance to do something great. You'd be surprised at how much you can accomplish from any starting point in your life.

- Be the hero you wish would come to save you. This is one of the most helpful things I've employed in almost every situation of my life. Depressed in bed? A hero would make me get up, make my bed, and fight against the forces keeping me down. In an argument with someone? A hero would apologize if he was wrong, and stand up for himself if he was right. Working under a horrible boss? A hero would work that job to his greatest ability and plot a way out.

- You'll fail. This one is a tough one for me because I'm like you and task-oriented. When I fail to complete something on my list I can become more depressed. One thing I've realized is that even the greatest among us fail at tasks. The only difference between them and those who don't do anything great is that they get up the next morning and try again. So if you get a 4/10 today, wake up tomorrow and try again.

Don't give up and good luck!

 

[Antifragile]

take back control over my F*cking life

I'd rename your thread, you aren't really conquering depression - it seems to me you are just adjusting your habits to live a good life.

1. We've all been there. It's normal part of entrepreneurship to feel the downs (and eventually the ups). We all feel it's not happening fast enough, that we've had enough of BS etc. What you are doing separates you from the wannabies. You are handling a problem and you'll succeed.
2. I found books (audio books) from ultra runners super helpful. Even David Goggins' "Can't hurt me" book was amazing at keeping me going when the going was hard. And it should be hard. If it was easy, it wouldn't have the effect you desire. "If it doesn't suck, we don't do it". Lean into other people's stories, here are a few that I enjoyed:








All of these books may have come from @MTF Discomfort Club newsletter. They served a great purpose for me and hope you'll find it as helpful in your pursuit to keep going as I did.

And if you need anything ... we are all here for you!

 

[heavy_industry]

Day 1/30 review:

• 5 AM wake up time: No
• Morning cardio: Yes
• Cold shower: Yes
• Lifting weights: Yes
• Low inflammation diet: No
• Wim Hof breathing: Yes
• No entertainment: No
• Caffeine removal: Not measured yet
• Nicotine removal: 24 mg

Notes:
Not bad for the first day, I'm feeling optimistic about this experiment. There is room for improvement and I will do better in the future.

One thing that I'm changing is waking up at 6 instead of 5 from now on.

Running first thing in the morning was the most difficult item on the list, but it's perhaps one of the most beneficial practices, since it's very hard and uncomfortable and it trains the pre-frontal cortex of the brain: the one responsible for discipline, order, planning, strategy and execution.

Overall rating of the day: 4/10

I'm going to prepare cold brewed coffee for the next day and I will measure the amount.

 

[heavy_industry]

I thought you are one of the successful man in heavy industry by reading your great posts on various topics. It is really strange to see your nick and depression next to each other. By your wisdom I believe you get out of it and you will be greater than ever. Now it is time to encourage yourself!

That's the most beautiful thing I've read today, thank you for the kind words!
I will recover. That's a promise.

 

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[Andy Black]

basically just learning, reading, writing and thinking for the entirety of the day

I don't think I've ever had depression and don't know much about it so hopefully I'm not leading you astray by asking you to consider the above.

Maybe replace thinking with taking massive action and moving fast. Then spend time thinking about what you've done, how you'll adjust, and then charging off again.

 

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[MTF]

Day 4/30 review:

Today I took an off day from exercising to recover. The rest of the habits haven't been very good either. It seems like it really matters how you start the day after all. That whole "morning routine" idea might have some merit to it after all.

Overall rating of the day: 5/10

I usually do active recovery days (and Goggins does these, too). Low intensity and low heart rate just to get the blood pumping and aid in recovery. These can be walks, (super easy) runs, swimming, etc.

We need a Goggins bot that just attacks weakness in all our posts.

[GOGGINS BOT MODE ON]

Man you a pussy for needing a Goggins bot to attack your weak shit. Sort it out yourself, bitch.

STAY HARD!!!

[GOGGINS BOT MODE OFF]

 

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[Patryk.]

I thought you are one of the successful man in heavy industry by reading your great posts on various topics. It is really strange to see your nick and depression next to each other. By your wisdom I believe you get out of it and you will be greater than ever. Now it is time to encourage yourself!

 

[heavy_industry]

Day 2/30 review:

• 6 AM wake up time: No
• Morning cardio: Yes
• Cold shower: Yes
• Lifting weights: Yes
• Low inflammation diet: Yes
• Wim Hof breathing: Yes
• No entertainment: Yes
• Caffeine removal: 10 tsp
• Nicotine removal: 28 mg

Notes:
Getting out and running was once again very difficult, and this is where the brain benefit comes from. I hope it will keep being very difficult.

About 2 hours ago I've had an unexpected but welcome burst of happiness, and felt like going to the gym for a second time. I didn't, because I'm already training a lot but the feeling was awesome.

I'm already starting to feel better.

Overall rating of the day: 6/10

 

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[heavy_industry]

Day 5/30 review:

• 6 AM wake up time: Yes
• Morning cardio: Yes
• Cold shower: Yes
• Lifting weights: No
• Low inflammation diet: No
• Wim Hof breathing: Yes
• No entertainment: Yes
• Caffeine removal: 8 tsp + 1 large latte
• Nicotine removal: 28 mg

Notes:
Today was AMAZING.
Every single day since I've started doing this has been better. But today I've started to feel alive again. Even with a moderate compliance rate of 50%-80%, it's clear that whatever I'm doing is slowly turning things around, and I'm very glad about it.

My sleep cycle starts to change and adjust to the high level of activity in the morning. In the evening I am very tired, but in a good-peaceful way. I've slept better and better every single night since I've capped and reduced my caffeine consumption.


Overall rating of the day: 7/10

 

[heavy_industry]

Day 6/30 review:

• 6 AM wake up time: Yes
• Morning cardio: Yes
• Cold shower: Yes
• Lifting weights: Yes
• Wim Hof breathing: Yes
• No entertainment: Yes
• Caffeine removal: 7 tsp
• Nicotine removal: 28 mg

Notes:
Every single day has been getting better and better.
I feel like things are changing in my brain, and running in the morning seems to be a big contributing factor to it.

Every morning is a battle - I don't want to run, but I do it anyway - I win the battle and this sets an amazing tone for the rest of the day.

The only downside to running is that it's antagonistic to my bodybuilding goals: it hinders recovery and decreases my lower body strength over time. After the month is over I will try to find a better alternative for getting this amazing cardio benefit - perhaps a rowing machine at home.

Also, as @S.Y. has advised me, I've reduced the number of habits by 1: the diet.
I've added some carbs in order to start moving some serious weight in the gym. I will drop the carbs in a future experiment to eliminate any systemic inflammation and see how that goes.

Thanks everyone for your amazing support. I'm very lucky to be part of such an amazing community.

Overall rating of the day: 7/10

 

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[Brissy]

Had similar struggles and never expected me to suffer from it. Went with the eastern methodologies that helped than chemical balancing. My causes were clear, I was just blind and in denial about it.

1. It's the mind that makes the body, not the other way around
2. Food for the mind comes via senses sound, touch, eyes, taste, smell. So fast on these as well meaning no violence in movies, rock music etc. Surround with light colors around, wear light colors as well
3. If early morning wake up doesn't get natural in 7 days, don't force it on body. There is an imbalance elsewhere.
4. Environment is the sea from where we absorb the energies. Make sure you live with and surround with pleasant people.
5. Since the body has memories, include food which your ancestors had.
6. Based on my experience, Heartfulness meditation via app (Free), listening to Louise Hay on Youtube (Free), some specific ragas makes a difference.
7. W.r.t food, favor sweetness, i.e taste after digestion (not sugary or sweet in mouth). Grains are considered sweety for example though it doesn't taste so. Cherry + Wild blueberry helps a lot. A little sweetness in tongue is necessary. Don't eat white sugar for instance, but sweet milk or jaggery is good.
8. There are 4 other bodies outside of physical body. The breathing exercises pranayama/alternate breathing in morning etc helps to balance the mental & energy body. More outward breath compared to inward breath is better, though don't force it. Don't excite it too much as it will fall into trough from peak.
9. The nervous system and digestion are key elements here. As long as digestion isn't well, it won't work properly. Consume simple food, without to much mixes eg: beef, chicken and fish in same meal.
10. We are designed to be happy, which is the natural state. Anything otherwise indicates a block or diversion of mental energies. Accupunture helped me initially. Deep sleep is where body & mind fixes it self, so make sure you get this without compromise.

Hope this helps.

 

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[MTF]

I'd rethink the 6 am waking time and instead focus on when you go to sleep (for example, be in bed by 9 pm reading books, even if you don't fall asleep).

This way you'd be more likely to get enough sleep and get up early. Otherwise you can stay up to 1 am and then aim to wake up at 6 am and almost guarantee failure in all your goals. It would negatively impact your recovery from powerlifting and cardio performance as well as increase your desire for caffeine.

 

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[Matt Lee]

• 5 AM wake up time
• cardio training + cold shower first thing in the morning
• lifting heavy weights
• eating one meal a day, low inflammation food

This is pretty much what I do to not feel like crap, plus cutting out external stimulants(social media, porn, sugar, etc).

I literally got off from a 2 weeks of feeling sick, lethargic, apathetic, and damn low in energy so I know what you mean. It might not be as bad as what you may be going through, but I know for sure that there are better days ahead for you. Especially when you follow through with what you wrote.

I enjoy your posts man. Glad you're back and have a killer plan to execute.

 

[heavy_industry]

Day 3/30 review:

• 6 AM wake up time: Yes - For the first time
• Morning cardio: Yes
• Cold shower: Yes
• Lifting weights: Yes
• Low inflammation diet: No
• Wim Hof breathing: Yes
• No entertainment: No
• Caffeine removal: 9 tsp
• Nicotine removal: Off the charts

Notes:
Started the day amazingly well at a solid 8/10, but experienced extreme fatigue later in the day so I went off track. I expect failure as part of the process and I am more interested in the overall trajectory of the process.

Tomorrow I will try to do better.

Overall rating of the day: 5/10

 

[Kak]

Day 4/30 review:

Today I took an off day from exercising to recover. The rest of the habits haven't been very good either. It seems like it really matters how you start the day after all. That whole "morning routine" idea might have some merit to it after all.

Overall rating of the day: 5/10

Goggins would tell you to get off your a$$. Recovery is an excuse. LOL

 

[Antifragile]

Day 5/30 review:

• 6 AM wake up time: Yes
• Morning cardio: Yes
• Cold shower: Yes
• Lifting weights: No
• Low inflammation diet: No
• Wim Hof breathing: Yes
• No entertainment: Yes
• Caffeine removal: 8 tsp + 1 large latte
• Nicotine removal: 28 mg

Notes:
Today was AMAZING.
Every single day since I've started doing this has been better. But today I've started to feel alive again. Even with a moderate compliance rate of 50%-80%, it's clear that whatever I'm doing is slowly turning things around, and I'm very glad about it.

My sleep cycle starts to change and adjust to the high level of activity in the morning. In the evening I am very tired, but in a good-peaceful way. I've slept better and better every single night since I've capped and reduced my caffeine consumption.


Overall rating of the day: 7/10

And that’s just day 5!
Imagine day 500.

A close friend of mine did a running streak. He ran every single day a minimum of 3km. He had board meeting in Japan with liquor and great food… and he still ran (tracked on Strava based on PST time zone!). He puked on the way back to hotel, but ran anyway.

He got pretty good. I joined him for 2x week 6am, through the winter doing 10km, eventually we did a few half marathons. Lots of trail running …

Which led him to sign up for ultramarathons! He did 80km run and the next day… he ran again. That’s grit.

He did this for 500 days. No days missed. Not one.

Keep going!

 

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[heavy_industry]

Day 7/30 review:

• 6 AM wake up time: Yes
• Morning cardio: Yes
• Cold shower: Yes
• Wim Hof breathing: Yes
• No entertainment: Yes

• Powerlifting: 70kg / 155lbs bench press

• Caffeine removal: 6 tsp
• Nicotine removal: 32 mg

Notes:
I've adjusted the protocol: instead of lifting weights every day, I'll be doing powerlifting 3 times a week. I would love to see some strength gains.


Overall rating of the day: 7/10

 

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[AceVentures]

Cold turkey the nicotine. Enough. Quit dicking around man, that one is the biggest ticket item on your list.

You want real change, or do you want marginal benefit mental masturbation?

I was a smoker for 15 some odd years. I cannot tell you how much better I perform after quitting. I was living with a low-level angst, anger, depression, headaches, and overall neurotic behavior. This only became apparent after I quit.

The first couple days are brutal - because you'll become aware of just how much your habitual nicotine intake was covering for your neurotic patterns. You'll be angry, highly irritable, and overall feeling like shit. Soldier through it.

You'll quickly learn to do something with yourself instead of masking whatever is going on with a vape/cigarette hit.

I support your endeavor and want the best for you. No more of this nicotine microgram adjustments on your daily reports - take the plunge like a man and make it 0. Be strong for a few days and you'll come out on top a champion.

Chop chop.

 

[heavy_industry]

@sev969 Thanks for the insight.

I fully believe that there's a very strong correlation (and actual causality) between physical health and mental health. Getting my sleep/diet/exercise at an optimal range is the top priority.

If things are not getting significantly better by the end of the month I will start therapy.

 

[heavy_industry]

@Guyfieri5 Thank you for the insight and the well thought out response!

Wanted to comment on the third point:

You are perfectly right, and I've said this myself repeatedly in the past: it's too late when you're dead. But since when I wrote this thread I was feeling otherwise, it just shows how irrational one can become if the brain / nervous system stops working properly.

This is the reason why I'm focusing heavily on the physiological / neurological side of things, because I suspect that the issue that I'm currently facing has a strong biological component and is not exclusively caused by psychological stress.

I hope that you will sort this out in your life as well!

 

[heavy_industry]

Day 4/30 review:

Today I took an off day from exercising to recover. The rest of the habits haven't been very good either. It seems like it really matters how you start the day after all. That whole "morning routine" idea might have some merit to it after all.

Overall rating of the day: 5/10

 

[heavy_industry]

Goggins would tell you to get off your a$$. Recovery is an excuse. LOL

I know, I just figured out that this was an excuse.
It won't happen again and I will pursue this lifestyle for the remaining period of the month. The solution for the accumulated fatigue will be a reduction of workout volume, not off days.

Hey man,

For the longest time I had no clue whether my depression was due to my own laziness, poor lifestyle, or if it really was related to some physiological reasons.

I honestly try my best to work towards my goals. I schedule plenty of hobbies that I love, etc., but I feel like crap most of the time still. I work out, kick box, go to improv classes, I go to toastmasters, I’m trying to find a sales job right now as a stepping stone to my “fast lane” career, yet I still feel like shit all the time.

Most days I try to stay disciplined and push through the suck, but some days it seems like an insurmountable wall. Like it feels physically excruciating to do anything productive.

I’m only now realising that depression causes low energy because it changes your neurotransmitter levels(norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, etc.

So that got me thinking: if depression steals your energy/focus by impacting neurotransmitter levels, maybe if I take the right meds I can get them back to a normal, functional level.

I am considering taking therapy & going to a psychiatrist simultaneously to tackle the psychological & physiological components of depression.

Just an idea… maybe mental health treatment can help you too. Best of luck.

It's indeed a very complex mechanism of pathology affecting the most complex structure we know: our nervous system. But before I jump to any additional treatment options I want to make sure that I cover all the basics: a healthy life style and good life decisions that will lead to positive outcomes.

I am very fortunate in the fact that I am usually very happy and enthusiastic about life, which means that my brain and body are working properly under normal conditions.

But if I neglect my sleep, my diet, I make bad life choices and I overstimulate my brain with shitty low value entertainment, the result is this horrible state that is 100% self-inflicted.

But this thread is an attempt to correct my mistakes and turn things around. It's my life, it's my responsibility.

 

[Kak]

Pain is weakness leaving your body

We need a Goggins bot that just attacks weakness in all our posts.

 

[Antifragile]

We need a Goggins bot that just attacks weakness in all our posts.

Goggins can slam a revolving door.

 

[S.Y.]

Keep it up @heavy_industry!
Diet and movements (movement, not exercise only) both influence our mental state. A

Below can help :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu1FMCxoEFc

 

[MTF]

Every morning is a battle - I don't want to run, but I do it anyway - I win the battle and this sets an amazing tone for the rest of the day.

That's what this is about. My weak point is my muscular strength (so opposite to you - I wouldn't mind running daily but I need to focus on my upper body). I train calisthenics and it's very hard for me. I suffer a lot during the workout. But I feel F*cking great afterward.

The only downside to running is that it's antagonistic to my bodybuilding goals: it hinders recovery and decreases my lower body strength over time. After the month is over I will try to find a better alternative for getting this amazing cardio benefit - perhaps a rowing machine at home.

Try hill sprints. You'll F*cking hate me while doing them but they're incredibly good as a proper resistance workout. You can go for a jog first to warm up, do the sprints, and then jog back home.