Cashflow 101 - Game strategies

[Russ H]

Great.

So how will you apply this strategy (borrowing a billion $$ and investing in a stock you are sure is going to go up) to your life?

I understand your point about 'out of the box' thinking. I just question the relevance of a strategy that is impossible to implement in reality.

Make sense?

-Russ H.

 

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[mglshark]

Good question Russ! Reminds me back at the peak of tech - local guy featured on local news studied local stocks and choose Qualcom to invest in. Every cent he could grab he put in over time. Had millions at that point. I don't think he work for the company but knew people that did. The stock just peak at $800 / share then split 4:1. Did he sell? Nope - "it will go higher"! Would like to find out where he is now since the crash. So this somewhat reflects the game $1 or $5 stock retail.

Of course the "INSIDERS" with options or given shares in lieu of cash do even better. This guy could have done put's to insure profit or at his level do "stamps" to protect against price drops.

Some other "house rules"

Allow 101 game whenever you land on paycheck you can buy / sell bonds. Each $100,000 / block brings cash flow $410 / month at 5% ROI. Each block can be sold back for $70,000 / block. Player can player can buy / sell as many blocks as they want only landing on paycheck.

Allow 101 players to short any stock card (follow 202 rules) to max of 5000 shares.

To exit fast track you must hit 2x passive over expensive (3x for 202 players!) or $1 mill in cash ($2 mill for 202), and pay off all debt (including home mortgage) to go to fast track!

To make fast track ore challenging change your new cash flow income to 10x instead of 100x. Landing on dreams without cheese you can buy it and charge 10% to other players when they land on it if they choose not to buy -they are paying you "rent" for the dream!

Finally one house rule that challenges the players to new levels:

At beginning of the game players write down first then announce method of getting to fast track: Paper assets, RE, or Businesses

Player can ONLY do unlimited borrowing based on what exit method they choose, otherwise they can only do "normal" bank borrowing. Player must choose either method at the time at the time of borrowing.

Normal bank borrowing interest is 2% / month ($200 / month) in $1000 block. Player can only borrow 100% against cash, 50% against paper asset value when bought / RE & businesses down payment only. Always round down borrowing, round up repayment.

So if player has $1000 cash, 50 shares stock at $20 / share ($1000 total) and house with $6k down payment he can borrow $1000 (cash) + $500 (stock) +$3000 (house) = $4500 so player can only borrow $4k ( $80 / month cost) from normal bank max.

This changes the game flow and challenges players to get out using one method to exit - much tougher! Unlimited borrowing means you line up the sharks for quick deal turn around in your area of specialty vs. normal "bank borrowing".

Try it and let me know what you think!

mglshark

 

[Rawr]

Wow, great thread, how did I miss it!


I played the computer game version only, and at first was very frustrated because my accounting classes have apparently not been paying off - I kept on messing up dragging numbers to the right columns. Over and over again I would want to just quit - but kept going through till I eventually got pretty good.

At first I was trying to buy properties and see what will happen. I don't remember the details - but I ended up bankrupt quick.. a lot.

Then I was more selective, but I remember relying a lot on stock. The game was making it easy by projecting if you will make money (ex- stock is at $3. Value = $5.. this doesn't always work like that in real life). So this was an easy way to get some cash but I didn't feel it was valid.

I started working on bigger deals that would add to my cashflow and get me out of the rat race, because I knew that you got PAID once you were out - I still don't understand how the numbers worked but I was getting something ridiculous every time I hit paycheck.

I was starting to get better at evaluating deals, but honestly it's been so long I don't remember how I did it, I just remember the Mouse (or was it a turtle?) saying "good job!" once I clicked "no thanks"
I lost the game about a year ago, so haven't played since. But I would love to if anyone wants to get together.

 

[Jonleehacker]

Great post Russ. Brings back lots of great lessons I learned from play the game with you and Les.

My favorite memory is of Les' challenge as to whether players could get out the rat race without opening the Cashflow 101 game box.

One observation I'd like to build on is that the game is meant to model somewhat, what we do in real life. With that in mind I'm always surprised when people get upset or find it "negative" when they land on the Doodad cards. But in real life it's the Doodads that motivate us (among other things) to create wealth.

Since then I like to celebrate that Hot Tub & the golf lessons...they make me feel rich!

 

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[mglshark]

My favorite is I will give you this card if you take the boat, swimming pool, vacation retreat card, etc. along with it.

My son at age 12 is getting good at the game, he manage in 202 to hit 2 mill in the stock cards (without massive leverage!). We play to win by either 3x passive or 2 million in cash to leave rat race. To toughen it more you have to announce at the beginning of the game which mode (Paper Assets, RE, Businesses) "that counts" to get out.

mgl

 

[Russ H]

bump for those that haven't seen it.

-Russ H.

 

[8 SNAKE]

I just picked up Cashflow 101 and had a basic question for Russ and others.

Is it useful to play by yourself? I can play a lot more often if I do it on my own, but I realize that half of the benefit of the game is learning from others. If others aren't around, would you play on your own?

 

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[fanocks2003]

My strategy:

1) Look for the share buying opportunity where you can by shares for the lowest possible price.
2) Borrow as hell.
3) By shares as a maniac.
4) Wait for an opportunity to sell of at the highest possible price.
5) Buy cashflowing opportunities every way I can.

Risks: Obviously going bankrupt, because of very low monthly cashflow (the risk taking depends very much on who you are as a person).

Fastest game for me (electronic game): 20 minutes.

 

[Russ H]

Fanocks-

Please don't take this the wrong way.

Your method does work in the game, but doesn't give you many skills you can use in the outside world (unless you have access to an INSIDERS and know that a stock will go from $1 to $40 a share).

That's why we play the $1 card as "bankrupt" (=0, erase all your shares). It makes the massive stock buy much riskier.

Many seasoned players don't even buy the stock cards, as they want to use the game to develop their negotiating skills for deals.

-Russ H.

 

[Russ H]

Is it useful to play by yourself? I can play a lot more often if I do it on my own, but I realize that half of the benefit of the game is learning from others. If others aren't around, would you play on your own?

98% of the benefit of the game is playing the board game with others.

You can play the e-game if you have to play by yourself.

But forming a cashflow group, and playing with at least 1 or 2 seasoned players, even if it's just for a game or two, will rock your world.

-Russ H.

 

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[8 SNAKE]

But forming a cashflow group, and playing with at least 1 or 2 seasoned players, even if it's just for a game or two, will rock your world.

-Russ H.

That's what I figured. I'll have to track down an experienced group around here to play with.

 

[fanocks2003]

Fanocks-

Please don't take this the wrong way.

Your method does work in the game, but doesn't give you many skills you can use in the outside world (unless you have access to an INSIDERS and know that a stock will go from $1 to $40 a share).

That's why we play the $1 card as "bankrupt" (=0, erase all your shares). It makes the massive stock buy much riskier.

Many seasoned players don't even buy the stock cards, as they want to use the game to develop their negotiating skills for deals.

-Russ H.

I don't agree with you Russ. I like to generalize, but I can't generalize on this one. It can be both a bad idea doing this and a good idea doing this.

The bad idea: Bad insight (agree with you on that one).
The good idea: with insight and knowledge this way of doing it may be a good thing.

It all comes down to, as you mentioned Russ, insight. I would not recommend this to the common man either, because it is not for the common man, period.

I am not talking about publicly traded shares. If you do this with public shares you are nuts. Do it only with private companies. They have more room for creative cash-outs. I am not talking about doing illegal stuff, I am talking about simply being more free to cash out at higher levels. Many things you can do with private companies are not always that obvious with publicly traded shares because you have a lot of regulations (as most of you here know). Regulations as you know is there to protect non-sophisticated investors. Privately held companies does not have that kind of regulations, unless you (of course) sell to the general public. If you sell to investors who are both qualified and sophisticated the Cashflow101 way of doing it is not at all a far away idea.

And one more thing, you can't negotiate at which price you want do your actual buy-in when it comes to publicly held shares. With privatly held shares this is more than welcomed (hence the big opportunity of buying at your price, not someone elses. Hence the possibility to sell with big gains. Depends on how sharp you are and how good you are at negotiating).

Why is it not a "purple-cloud" idea doing as I do in the game? Easy, say you buy a share for $1 and that that buy-in price gives you a ROI of 50% a year. That's a good return. If you have a company that would interest an institutional investor (they have certain revenue and buy-in requirements) you could more than certainly sell the stock at a price that would give the institutional investor 10% a year ROI hence you sell the share for a whole lot more. Compared to a publicly traded share I would bet my a$$ that the spread is a whole lot more lucrative:smx2:.

If you borrow for the amount, you need to sell very soon or at least have dividents covering your output in interest. As soon as you have "covering-up money" this deal will be more than sane. No matter how long you need to wait to liquidate your holding.

I actually remember one industry magnet starting his wealth career with borrowed money (100% borrowed funds). I think it was Andrew Carnegie in fact. If he can, I guess it can be done. Many of the modern entrepreneurs do it too (how common it is I don't know. But it is happening often).

 

[Happy]

I have never heard of the game Cashflow before seeing it mentioned in a post about a Colorado get together by Bilgefish. Yes it’s true, I have been living under a rock in the back of a deep dark cave.

A quick Internet search brought me to the Rich Dad site and now I think I understand how RD got rich.

I read the Internet marketing hype; My question is the game worth the price? If purchased I would be playing the game most often with my sons and possibly nieces and nephews who are all in the age range of 16-20 years old. In this day and age will the board game hold the interest of teens? It sounds like it may be a good game to bring to the lake.

I understand that posting this type of comment, in this thread, I will more than likely get all positive remarks about the game. If I may play the devil’s advocate was your experience with the game more entertaining or did you walk away with new lessons learned.

Thanks!

 

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[Bilgefisher]

I have never heard of the game Cashflow before seeing it mentioned in a post about a Colorado get together by Bilgefish. Yes it’s true, I have been living under a rock in the back of a deep dark cave.

A quick Internet search brought me to the Rich Dad site and now I think I understand how RD got rich.

I read the Internet marketing hype; My question is the game worth the price? If purchased I would be playing the game most often with my sons and possibly nieces and nephews who are all in the age range of 16-20 years old. In this day and age will the board game hold the interest of teens? It sounds like it may be a good game to bring to the lake.

I understand that posting this type of comment, in this thread, I will more than likely get all positive remarks about the game. If I may play the devil’s advocate was your experience with the game more entertaining or did you walk away with new lessons learned.

Thanks!

The game is expensive no doubt. If you read through this thread you'll find numerous different ways to play. All as varied as the ways members of this forum made their wealth. This game allowed several members of this board to better grasp the fastlane mentality. I think the game is very worth it. Better yet ask this, why would this many successful people still be excited about playing a game?

Try looking on ebay or craigslist. I'm sure you can find a much cheaper used cashflow game or look on the richdad site. There are cashflow clubs all around the US. I'm sure there is several near your area.

 

[Runum]

Everytime I play the game I learn something new. Playing it with different people will show you things you've never thought of before. Also, there are different rules and strategies to play by. I tried to play a couple of games in Phoenix at our last meet up and I don't think we finished either game because we were talking strategies. It's definitely a brain motivator. However, as good as the game is, some teens will like it and some won't. IMHO it's worth the price. But if you want to try it first come on over to Colorado this week.

 

[Happy]

Wow - talk about your fast response time!

I surely didn't mean to imply that the game was not worth the price and hope I didn't step on any toes. Meaningful life lessons are hard to come by and putting financial strategies into a game format is brilliant and one that fosters discussion at that.

The kids are competitive, so are the adults for that matter, so I think it would more than likely hold their interest. And who knows maybe the game will help them with their real life financial goals & if this is the case, the price of the game would be a bargain.

 

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[Runum]

Happy, no offense taken. It's pretty rare for us to meet someone that hasn't heard of the game. Definitely something to put on your to do list. If you can get your kids to play it and absorb the lessons, they will have a huge head start on their financial futures.

Oh yeah, I'm not kidding about the invite to Denver this week. You are very welcome to come join us.:icon_super:

 

[hawaiiloans]

I always try to play the E game everyday, just to keep my mind sharp.

One thing that I was proven wrong was that the lower income careers would take longer then the higher ones. Higher income = Higher expenses, meaning more cashflow to get out of the rat race.

The strategy I use now to get out 95% of the time (unless I get an unlucky streak of vacation homes, etc) is to load up as much GOOD DEBT as possible, while still collecting a positive paycheck. Contrary to popular opinion to get out of the rat race, it's not about being debt free. Accumulate as much good debt (RE) as possible, and if you can't afford any more debt, auction or sell off your deals to other players. You never know, one player might have sold his duplex, and is looking to put the proceeds into a cashflowing property, no matter how low the ROI is.

IE: Your take home income is $3,000. This means you can borrow up to $30,000, or $3,000 per "month". If you come across several deals, like a 2Br/1Bth for a $3k down payment, duplex for $6k, and a 4 plex for $12k, you can borrow the down payment for $2,100 a "month", leaving you with $900 extra to build up your savings, or to leverage more deals. As you come across cards that allow you to sell, figure out if the profit from your lowest income producing property will pay off your debts, and free up more cash.

IE: You owe the bank $50k, therefore you pay $5k per paycheck, and your 4 plex is bringing in $1k a month. You have an offer to sell at $40k per unit, and your mortgage is $80k. Therefore you pocket $80k, and use $50k to pay back the bank, freeing $5k per paycheck, and leaving you with $30k to fund more deals/buy land/whatever. Your net monthly gain is $4k, because you sold the 4plex which cashflowed $1k, and paid the bank back it's $50k, which gave you $5k a paycheck.

After I realized this it's like a lightbulb went off in my head, saying "It's not about finding the no money down deal, or the small RE deals that pay very little with my cash on hand, it's about leveraging my borrowing ability to purchase, and eventually paying back the bank with extra cash, and cashflow"

I've never used stocks for my strategy though, it just seems to random. Although I am always open to new ways of playing CF. This game reminds me so much of Civilization III, where you control an entire country from stone age to modern age. You can play it in so many ways, and that's the fun of the game. Reminds me of starting at 10:00, and finally getting tanks in about 4:00

 

[Bilgefisher]

Wow - talk about your fast response time!

I surely didn't mean to imply that the game was not worth the price and hope I didn't step on any toes. Meaningful life lessons are hard to come by and putting financial strategies into a game format is brilliant and one that fosters discussion at that.

The kids are competitive, so are the adults for that matter, so I think it would more than likely hold their interest. And who knows maybe the game will help them with their real life financial goals & if this is the case, the price of the game would be a bargain.

Oh heck no, no offense at all. We just happen to have been on talking about the subject at the time. No worries, no sore toes here.

 

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[slim_jim]

Don't think of it as a game, but as an financial education tool.

If you are able to take the lessons learned from the game and the information available here and turn your financial life around, it will have been a very small price to pay.

James

 

[MsMoney]

I haven't played that game in MONTHS!! and I own the board game & e-game!! When we first got the game about 5+ years ago, I had both my girls play with us.

My older daughter was in Jr. High at the time and was the only kid in her math class that knew what stocks were!! She told her teacher about CashFlow too!

I'm so glad I saw this post! I plan to get a few people together and have a game going! I need to start focusing again!!

Rep ++

 

[andviv]

Don't think of it as a game, but as an financial education tool.

:iagree:

If you think of it as a game then it is freaky expensive...
as a financial tool it is pretty cheap.

 

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[Happy]

Happy, no offense taken. It's pretty rare for us to meet someone that hasn't heard of the game. Definitely something to put on your to do list. If you can get your kids to play it and absorb the lessons, they will have a huge head start on their financial futures.

Oh yeah, I'm not kidding about the invite to Denver this week. You are very welcome to come join us.:icon_super:

With being new to the board, I am glad to hear that I didn't start off on the wrong foot. (No pun intended)

I do believe that I will purchase the game. I can't think of a better way to convey financial strategies on to the younger generation, while at the same time making it fun and interactive for everyone involved.

Thanks for the invitation – I wish I was able to attend, maybe the next one.

Happy

 

[MooreMillions]

WOW! These strategies are unbelievable. I never would have come across these, even on the RD forum. I love it here and it's been less than a week. I have got to share these new strategies with my partner. Him and his wife are going to go bonkers.

 

[Russ H]

bump a roo.

For those that haven't read this thread all the way through, there is gold here.

-Russ H.

 

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[Pinnacle]

Before Thursday of last week, I had never played a cashflow game. A friend invited me over and we played Cashflow 202 (the advanced one) with a couple of other guys. I couldn't believe it, but I made it out of the rat race within maybe an hour and a half. On the fast track I collected about 4 dreams and bought two businesses that cashflowed $10k a piece. I came within an eyelash of winning, but one of the other players landed on a business that cashflowed $50,000 extra right off the bat and rolled the required 4 on the die to win the game. I couldn't do anything but collect dreams along the way. It was exhilerating, though.

 

[buckmajor]

Hi there

I am a newbie here and would like to say thank you for sharing your input on CF101. I read all of Russ H comments and really inspired by his insight of Cashflow 101.

I have the CF101 e-game and been playing by myself for under a month now and learnt so many strategies. I have flatmates but only one is sorted of interested in playing but not really lol. But yea I need to get the actual board game and start applying some of Russ's interesting rules. Thumbs up to you Russ H, I would like to get out of the RR one day and start helping my friends/famlies and make an impact in my own cosmos with the Cashflow.

I am so excited about this and would like to ask a few questions if no one minds.

1. Can you still get out of the RR if you earn no income and still have expenses in the real world?

I am reading one of RK book 'Cashflow Quadrant' and he was homeless in 1985 and did a few odd jobs just to get by since his focus wasn't a paid job but building assets. By 1989, him and his wife were millionaires.

2. How would you build assets if your not earning any income? Or is this question can only be done by experiencing it first?

I have no cashflow at the moment and only working part time just enough to get by but with the recession already taking its course, its not looking good . Would appreciate anyone's help on this one.

Many thanks in advance
CHEERS

 

[Runum]

Hi there

I am a newbie here and would like to say thank you for sharing your input on CF101. I read all of Russ H comments and really inspired by his insight of Cashflow 101.

I have the CF101 e-game and been playing by myself for under a month now and learnt so many strategies. I have flatmates but only one is sorted of interested in playing but not really lol. But yea I need to get the actual board game and start applying some of Russ's interesting rules. Thumbs up to you Russ H, I would like to get out of the RR one day and start helping my friends/famlies and make an impact in my own cosmos with the Cashflow.

I am so excited about this and would like to ask a few questions if no one minds.

1. Can you still get out of the RR if you earn no income and still have expenses in the real world?

I am reading one of RK book 'Cashflow Quadrant' and he was homeless in 1985 and did a few odd jobs just to get by since his focus wasn't a paid job but building assets. By 1989, him and his wife were millionaires.

2. How would you build assets if your not earning any income? Or is this question can only be done by experiencing it first?

I have no cashflow at the moment and only working part time just enough to get by but with the recession already taking its course, its not looking good . Would appreciate anyone's help on this one.

Many thanks in advance
CHEERS

Glad you made it here and I'm glad you are reading the threads. Would you please take some time and post an introduction about yourself in the intro forum? It helps us help you. After that intro you will probably get more responses to your questions.:cheers:

 

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[buckmajor]

Thanks for the reminder Runum, I found the intro thread which makes it a lot easier.
I guess I got excited and wanted to post here ASAP but forgot to introduce myself :smx4:.

 

[buckmajor]

Hi there

Just wondering if someone can answer a few of my questions.

1. Can you still get out of the RR if you earn no income and still have expenses in the real world?

I am reading one of RK book 'Cashflow Quadrant' and he was homeless in 1985 and did a few odd jobs just to get by since his focus wasn't a paid job but building assets. By 1989, him and his wife were millionaires.

2. How would you build assets if your not earning any income? Or is this question can only be done by experiencing it first?

I have no cashflow at the moment and only working part time just enough to get by but with the recession already taking its course, its not looking good . Would appreciate anyone's help on this one.

Thanks