Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency Discussion (And Predictions)

[mguerra]

I bought the dip.

More dips incoming...

 

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[JamesQB8]

More dips incoming...

We'll go up from here. Unless we go down or sideways of course.

 

[Antifragile]

No, it’s definitely going down. Or up. It will not stay flat. Probably.

 

[EvanOkanagan]

I bought the dip.

LFG!!

 

[AceVentures]

What I appreciate is the relationship between power consumption and value delivery to the network.

The network rewards hashpower - hashpower becomes a revenue source tied to power consumption - margins increase with more efficient power consumption, long-term incentives encourage sustainability/predictability of the power source (fossil fuels are rather volatile in price and have an innate limit to the source, never-mind environmental impacts and geopolitical constraints within that market).

Climate change is encouraged and rewarded within a system like this - so with the proper incentives in place it actually makes me more optimistic about power consumption in the future.

What cryptocurrencies allow for is settlements to be established around power. For example a very large waterfall in a remote area with proper infrastructure to harvest energy can perform mathematics in such a way as to provide value to the entire network. The return on this value to the global network can allow for further infrastructure development and human settlement around such areas.

Enter Volcanic Bitcoin

https://twitter.com/x/status/1402714926800674827

View: https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1402714926800674827

 

[Kak]

Bought GBTC yesterday. Sold today.

 

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[TheNectarOfCow]

How F*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

 

[GPM]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

Lol x100,000,000

Are you serious? You think USD or the Euro or something is less fake? They literally print as much of that as they feel like.

You want us to evolve into using a technologically better energy source? It's not gonna happen by using less energy I will tell you that right now. If no one uses energy there is no need to find something other than burning oil and gas and coal. Want us to figure out clean fusion or some crazy space solar setup that beams the energy down to earth? We need to start using a crap ton of energy so that evolving becomes a necessity and financially viable.

Or better yet, let's all go back to horse drawn carriages and burning whale oil for Lighting. Whales are a renewable resource, they keep being born, so we should be able to keep slaughtering them for oil. The ultimate in green energy, whale oil and horse drawn carriage.

 

[Kak]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

I know you can’t be reasoned with because of your inflammatory post… But… an understanding of supply and demand economics might lead you to a different conclusion… Like more demand for power actually makes renewables more competitive and viable.

 

[Antifragile]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

Every invention is first met with ridicule. Blockchain is the same fad as the internet was in the 90s, and we all know how it turned out. Total fake. I type this on my trusted typewriter with carbon copy to you. Postal service should deliver this message to you in less than a week!

 

[TheNectarOfCow]

Didn't expect to trigger a lot of you bitcoin fanboys like that, sorry, but none of you explained what value it is actually capable of providing to our society? You all just attempted to either ridicule my statement, or argue that burning excessive amounts of fossil fuels is somehow a good thing..?

Mining bitcoin consumes an absolutely agregious amount of resources. Why don't one of you try telling me what problems (that someone actually has,) that bitcoin is solving, or is going to solve in the near future? Because as of right now, bitcoin exists solely as an investment vehicle for investors.

 

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[JamesQB8]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

Lol

Didn't expect to trigger a lot of you bitcoin fanboys like that, sorry, but none of you explained what value it is actually capable of providing to our society? You all just attempted to either ridicule my statement, or argue that burning excessive amounts of fossil fuels is somehow a good thing..?

Mining bitcoin consumes an absolutely agregious amount of resources. Why don't one of you try telling me what problems (that someone actually has,) that bitcoin is solving, or is going to solve in the near future? Because as of right now, bitcoin exists solely as an investment vehicle for investors.

If you're serious and not just trolling then here are some reading resources to start to understand the value proposition of Bitcoin

The Bullish Case for Bitcoin

UPDATE: First published as a long-form article in 2018, The Bullish Case for Bitcoin has become the most read non-technical introduction to…

vijayboyapati.medium.com

Bitcoin is the Great Definancialization - Unchained

unchained-capital.com

 

[GPM]

Trustless computing systems..... no value there right?

Also you are stuck on fossil fuels, and we will all be stuck on them forever if everyone thinks like you do.

Video games, there is a valuable tool for society that uses significantly more energy than bitcoin does. I am also not against video games, but it follows the same line of thought

 

[Antifragile]

Didn't expect to trigger a lot of you bitcoin fanboys like that, sorry, but none of you explained what value it is actually capable of providing to our society? You all just attempted to either ridicule my statement, or argue that burning excessive amounts of fossil fuels is somehow a good thing..?

Mining bitcoin consumes an absolutely agregious amount of resources. Why don't one of you try telling me what problems (that someone actually has,) that bitcoin is solving, or is going to solve in the near future? Because as of right now, bitcoin exists solely as an investment vehicle for investors.

Let me get this right, you have done no research and want me to educate you after you make trolling posts? No, thanks. Do your own work. There is this other news thing, probably a fad too and uses electricity!, it’s called Google, try it.

 

[Timmy C]

Didn't expect to trigger a lot of you bitcoin fanboys like that, sorry, but none of you explained what value it is actually capable of providing to our society? You all just attempted to either ridicule my statement, or argue that burning excessive amounts of fossil fuels is somehow a good thing..?

Mining bitcoin consumes an absolutely agregious amount of resources. Why don't one of you try telling me what problems (that someone actually has,) that bitcoin is solving, or is going to solve in the near future? Because as of right now, bitcoin exists solely as an investment vehicle for investors.

Do the work yourself you lazy guy

 

[Frinys]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

Uninformed guy shares opinions based on zero knowledge and 100% feelings. Close your eyes, and you'll fail to see anything at all.

Didn't expect to trigger a lot of you bitcoin fanboys like that, sorry, but none of you explained what value it is actually capable of providing to our society? You all just attempted to either ridicule my statement, or argue that burning excessive amounts of fossil fuels is somehow a good thing..?

Mining bitcoin consumes an absolutely agregious amount of resources. Why don't one of you try telling me what problems (that someone actually has,) that bitcoin is solving, or is going to solve in the near future? Because as of right now, bitcoin exists solely as an investment vehicle for investors.

This post is better. At least you explain why you think crypto is throwing us back to the stone age of trade. If you want an explanation, you should ask questions to increase your knowledge.

Bitcoin is not just online magic money.

I don't know where you are from, but it sounds like you are from a place where you trust the banks, and everyone has access to a bank account. This is not the case in most developing countries. Banks refuse to give people a bank account and sell the information about those that have. For people living in these parts of the world, Bitcoin is a blessing. It's a completely trustless, 0% downtime, peer-to-peer system that is controlled by no one. It's simply a game-changer for developing and least developed countries.

Developed countries are mostly built on trust. For people from these countries, it is hard to understand why a trustless system is necessary. And truth to be told, you can go a long way with fiat alone in these countries. This makes it hard to understand why bitcoin is worth its energy consumption. But just because it's hard to understand why we need a trustless system, doesn't mean that we don't. It's just that we don't experience the problems bitcoin solves that often.

I can share one problem I have. Global bank transfers. I think it is really crap. The bank requires a lot of information about both the sender and the receiver, and the transfer takes several days to complete. I'd always prefer a system where I just have to provide an address to be paid, and where the transaction settles completely in less than an hour.

To round up, let's look at the energy consumption narrative. Many compare bitcoin's energy consumption to for example paypal. However, they forget that bitcoin is a closed, self-sustaining system. Paypal, however, is just a layer on top of a gigantic fiat system. So when people do these comparisons, they compare a single layer (paypal) to a self-serving system. That's like comparing the calorie count of a cake to the frosting of another cake. That doesn't make the frosting cake any less calorie dense, you just forgot to add up the rest of the calories.

Now, you have received a lot of information to start learning about blockchain technology. I suggest that you do some research on your own, and then, after that, answer in this thread. Because right now, we are at two very different levels in understanding of this technology.

 

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[Matt Sun]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

I think you fail to see how much energy the USD, Euro etc uses.
They use POW, and no, it's not "proof of work", but "proof of WAR"... ask Sandam Hussein, Gadhafi and the rest what happens when they sell their oil in another currency that is not the USD token... "-Hello you might want some democracy, just talk to my gun."
And you know, those armies and their killing use a lot of energy, much more than BTC.

Oh and you could calculate how much energy is wasted when people work their entire lives and loose their savings to inflation. I guess the energy is not really "lost" but "stolen" in that case. Btc prevents you from being robbed by your government. That is a big deal and a big problem solving.

You also can move around with hundreds of millions of dollars and access it just with memorized words in your head, nobody will know that you have the money so nobody can take it from you. I don't mean to give you shit but I think you hadn't research bitcoin and crypto very much. There are many more use cases.

 

[Timmy C]

I think you fail to see how much energy the USD, Euro etc uses.
They use POW, and no, it's not "proof of work", but "proof of WAR"... ask Sandam Hussein, Gadhafi and the rest what happens when they sell their oil in another currency that is not the USD token... "-Hello you might want some democracy, just talk to my gun."
And you know, those armies and their killing use a lot of energy, much more than BTC.

Oh and you could calculate how much energy is wasted when people work their entire lives and loose their savings to inflation. I guess the energy is not really "lost" but "stolen" in that case. Btc prevents you from being robbed by your government. That is a big deal and a big problem solving.

You also can move around with hundreds of millions of dollars and access it just with memorized words in your head, nobody will know that you have the money so nobody can take it from you. I don't mean to give you shit but I think you hadn't research bitcoin and crypto very much. There are many more use cases.

Nah, he deserves the shit.
Guys a jackass.

 

[PeterBoss]

Trustless computing systems..... no value there right?

This 100%. @TheNectarOfCow
Regardless of my thoughts on crypto, the mania, the overall irrationality of most actors, this is the main takeaway you should have from the whole space.
They are, for the most parts, a large scale experiment of consistency in distributed systems. For more info and a better explanation start with: Byzantine fault - Wikipedia

Now, discussing if there is a monetary value to a secure, consistent distributed network or not and if there is a FAIR value for a piece of said network, that is a whole other discussion and where things get too murky for me to even get into that.
In general I would say: the internet changed the world. The numerous .com sites that were given valuations of 1M+ and only had a domain name and some pictures in it... not so much.

No use discussing 'crypto' tbh. If you like being part of it, for the kick of it do it. If not, there is other stuff you can fun with.
Most of the people that where in BTC in the early days, where cryptography enthusiasts and loved the idea of it, as it had been attempted either one way or another multiple times before. For them, running a node and being part of the experiment was rewarding enough.
I would argue that this was closer to a 'healthy' approach to this whole thing. Do it because you find it interesting, intriguing and fun. If you are re-mortgaging the house to buy BTC you are definitely going at it the wrong way.

 

[Leo Hendrix]

yeah I bought a ledger nano S but I havent had to use it yet. Metamask, mobile wallets ( not so much anymore) and a little on exchanges have been enough for me so far. I have read that you need to update the firmware regularly for it too function properly...(something like that) and that the fees ( withdrawal etc.) can be high.

I think they are good for long term holding as a personal safe/vault.

Anyone has a hardware wallet? I own close to 6k in crypto, so i am thinking about getting one.

 

[Deleted78083]

yeah I bought a ledger nano S but I havent had to use it yet. Metamask, mobile wallets ( not so much anymore) and a little on exchanges have been enough for me so far. I have read that you need to update the firmware regularly for it too function properly...(something like that) and that the fees ( withdrawal etc.) can be high.

I think they are good for long term holding as a personal safe/vault.

I ended up buying a Trezor wallet.

I am a bit disappointed. It's not so easy to use and it was fairly expensive for what it is.

 

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[Empires]

I ended up buying a Trezor wallet.

I am a bit disappointed. It's not so easy to use and it was fairly expensive for what it is.

Anyone try out Ellipal or any other air gapped wallets that never need to connect to a computer?

 

[23Infinity]

Lol, this cow guy is like a version of this TV host in 1995 talking about the internet (dumber though, because there's lots of easy & free resources now to educate yourself on crypto).

If we were in the 1990's he would have probably been saying something similar "hurr durr I don't understand how this TCP/IP protocol thingy is going to replace muhhh home telephone hurrr durrr....now do the work and convince me"

Anyways, low value poster with low post count - would just ignore as he likely came here to vent his hidden frustration that he didn't buy any so far.

 

[GPM]

I have Ledgers. Nano S and X.

They are super easy to use. Firmware updates are a breeze. You are charged transfer fees to move from an exchange to your hard wallet, and from the wallet to an exchange. Same as any other form of wallet. An exchange IS NOT a wallet.

 

[Timmy C]

Bitcoin fixes this.

 

[Kevin88660]

Didn't expect to trigger a lot of you bitcoin fanboys like that, sorry, but none of you explained what value it is actually capable of providing to our society? You all just attempted to either ridicule my statement, or argue that burning excessive amounts of fossil fuels is somehow a good thing..?

Mining bitcoin consumes an absolutely agregious amount of resources. Why don't one of you try telling me what problems (that someone actually has,) that bitcoin is solving, or is going to solve in the near future? Because as of right now, bitcoin exists solely as an investment vehicle for investors.

Cryptocurrency value come from community consensus that are built, developed and communicated primarily through social media. Because only a few coins (top ten market cap for instance ) can survive after competing for years with thousands of other coins and subsequently develop the largest users/network.

Most value of investment today are not driven by utilitarian use. Most valuables securities are not the ones generating largest future cashflow. Gold has much less use case than aluminum or iron ore.

Most investment value today are primarily driven by scarcity measured by "feat". You are valuable because you have achieved something difficult and that is hard to replicate. Tesla's business isn't making money if you take their bitcoin and carbon credit speculation out of their P and L. Tesla is valuable because Tesla the company has been an incredible story. Bitcoin was an incredible story. Tesla and Bitcoin will carry out doing what they are doing, be it getting involved in clean energy business or existing as the oldest proof of work open ledger that has the highest hashrate.

 

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[Matt Sun]

What do you think of the argument of Ethereum being highly centralized, that Vitalik Buterin and his friends got near the money printer early and are all billionaires now. And that they call the shots, like moving to PoS even against much of the entire net's will. And that this move will stablish their power since they have so much Eth that they will stake and run the nodes that validate transactions. Also Vitalik is working with JP Morgan executives (aren't we triying to get rid of this people?).
And just an observation, Buterin and his team are based on Switzerland, same as the IMF, WHO, and many of the globalist "let's do a great reset folk".

I mean, I love the concept of the decentralized world computer, I just think its fair to ask hard questions. Is this a great project but with something of a rotten inside ?

 

[mguerra]

What do you think of the argument of Ethereum being highly centralized, that Vitalik Buterin and his friends got near the money printer early and are all billionaires now. And that they call the shots, like moving to PoS even against much of the entire net's will. And that this move will stablish their power since they have so much Eth that they will stake and run the nodes that validate transactions. Also Vitalik is working with JP Morgan executives (aren't we triying to get rid of this people?).
And just an observation, Buterin and his team are based on Switzerland, same as the IMF, WHO, and many of the globalist "let's do a great reset folk".

I mean, I love the concept of the decentralized world computer, I just think its fair to ask hard questions. Is this a great project but with something of a rotten inside ?

SUPER valid questions, mate.

I dont want to believe that the founder of the 2nd biggest cryptocurrency will "corrupt" the blockchain, but...

Who knows?

 

[Ocean Man]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

Let me know what else allows me to send thousands of dollars in seconds or mere minutes to people in other countries for a few cents-dollars. Thanks!

AND without going through banks and filing unnecessary documents.

 

[BooBoosHelix]

How f*cking ridiculous is it that we've started burning absolute heaps of energy to produce fake internet money?

I fail to see how crypto is advancing society rather than throwing us back to the stone age of trade.

Yeah but that’s Bitcoin. Old mans play. There will be something else way more energy3 efficient like Nano.