Are We In a Relationship?

[Almantas]

...this is a business and entrepreneurship forum - you do know that, yes?
Isn't this better suited material for a conversation with your buddies over some cold beers?

That being said, if you haven't kissed her, it's not any capacity of romantic relationship. I didn't even read your whole post and I know that.

This is my first time posting stuff like this, and, yes, I believe it's not' related to business at all, but 'People & Relationships' forum section seems to be an appropriate enough place for my post. I believe it is not necessary to be so rude, if you had a bad day or experiences in your life, turn them into positives, instead of releasing your negative attitude on this forum. I am a relatively new member of this forum, but, in my opinion, being united and helpful will move this community a lot further than spreading anger and frustration.

 

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[Unknown]

I saw this and thought it was just too perfect not to share.

 

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[SteveO]

I guess, mentally fit girl would not give such signals to a guy who is single

Dude.... Protect yourself. Her words are irrelevant. It is her real actions that should be read. No physical attention during this period? No dates? No relationship.

As I said in the earlier post... The Games People Play.. "Never meaning what they say now, Never saying what they mean". Gotta learn to see past the words.

It is not about her stability. It is about you...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

this is a business and entrepreneurship forum

Well he did put it into the correct forum "People and Relationships."

 

[mrarcher]

For the OP

 

[MrOrigon]

This is my first time posting stuff like this, and, yes, I believe it's not' related to business at all, but 'People & Relationships' forum section seems to be an appropriate enough place for my post. I believe it is not necessary to be so rude, if you had a bad day or experiences in your life, turn them into positives, instead of releasing your negative attitude on this forum. I am a relatively new member of this forum, but, in my opinion, being united and helpful will move this community a lot further than spreading anger and frustration.

Sorry Almantas, I reread my reply and it was sour. You're right, this is supposed to be a friendly place - and I'M the one at fault for failing to realize that, in the forum you posted this in, it is a completely appropriate question.

That being said, let me offer some genuine advice (despite probably being quite a bit younger than you) - girls are pretty aware of body language and, in my experience, are pretty good at telling what a guy wants. If she's getting the vibe that you seem interested, and she's sticking around, that's a good sign. Don't be afraid to make the first move, whether it be telling her you want to take her out to dinner (specify that it will be a DATE and make your romantic intentions clear) or going in for a kiss.

If you're worried that going for a kiss and being rejected will ruin your relationship with her, know that you're in control of whether or not it's awkward. If you get rejected, just laugh, shrug, and say, "Well, I had to at least try" and continue your conversation. As long as you don't act embarrassed, she won't find it awkward and you can try again another time.

Hope I've redeemed myself... I feel like a fool

 

[Aimee]

As everyone else has said, women do expect you to lead in a relationship, whether they admit it or not. She's more than likely not going to make a move until you do.

It sounds like she likes you. Just do it. Worst case scenario? She doesn't feel the same, you take it on the chin, stop obsessing over it, and move on. Best case? She likes you back.

With that in mind, if someone blows hot and cold, gives you mixed signals, or even goes as far to say as 'I don't want you to fall in love with me,' I'd definitely back off because even if things seem okay in the moment, it'll probably all go to crap later on down the line. Calling you her "soul mate" is pretty bold, though. If that's not a sign she likes you, I don't know what is.

Good luck, though. I hope it goes well for you!

 

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[Captain Jack]

Everybody defines quality differently, but she's indecisive. That's a fact. One day she is chasing me, another day she's running from me. She's 28 , I assume she should be more mature than that. I do have girl FRIENDS who do care about me, but they never show jealousy when I meet other women and never show fear when I temporary cut contacts. This girl is different. And, yes, she's seeing multiple men, that's a fact and she can not foul me with this move.

Yikes. I would avoid. She's too old to be behaving this way. Focus on your biz and establishing yourself. By doing this, you will improve your own quality and will attract higher quality.

Yes, I am looking for a woman who is mature enough and is willing to share a road of entrepreneurship with me. The woman who is willing to share the road of self-development and accompanying results.

This does not sound like the girl for you.

Although I am bald and look older, I am 24 years old. One side of me realizes that I should concentrate only on business, the other side, however is dreaming of having a proper partner beside me - this is probably a biological mating instinct or something like that lol.

Nothing wrong with being bald. Nobody is perfect. I'm short and it hasn't stopped me from dating a multitude of women.

I agree that there is something magical about having a partner beside you while you're pulling yourself up. But you must also realize that there is a lot of value in doing things completely on your own. I got through some very hard times in my life alone and I'm better for it.

As I said, focus on your biz and stay away from women with red flags. The right woman will present herself when the time is right.

I suppose this I've learned by experience. lol And don't ever take advice people can't change. I'm proof of that. You never know when there is a diamond in the rough. You can't tell to you walk the journey and learn to grow and evolve with the opposite sex. Just saying. If you changed enough to be an entrepreneur how many people tell you, you can't do it. So it makes no sense to say a man or woman can't turn out to be a diamond when you think they maybe nothing. I think every entrepreneur is proof of that, if you put your mind too it, you can have it all.

I would caution against trying to change someone or expecting a person to change. They often don't. And you will have a lot of headaches.

In my experience, it's best to take someone as they are. Determine what you want in a partner and stick with it. If a person does not meet your minimum standards in the present time, wish them well and move on to the next.

 

[TonyStark]

"Relationships are a lot like farts, if you have to push too hard, it's probably shit."

- Unknown.

 

[Almantas]

It's been two weeks since, what's the outcome of this?

I am now spending more time working on myself. She's in an emotional imbalance stage. She doesn't know what she wants. One day she tells one thing, another day another. I have enough stuff going on in my life already and I am looking for a woman who would be an asset rather than an emotional liability to me. I have stopped texting her often, so she started texting me telling that I am acting strangely. I don't have time for games. There is enough players in the field to take care of her. I am busy running my business.

 

[Captain Jack]

OP, you are putting way too much effort into this.

Ask her out. If she says yes, awesome. If she is unsure and you really like her, try again later. If she says no, then move on.

By putting this off, over-analyzing, and waiting for the perfect moment, you're wasting a lot of time that could be better spent on other women or your biz.

 

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[Ubermensch]

Hi Guys,

Typically, I post business relevant posts. In this case, however, I need some of your relationship advice.

Does it sound like we are in a relationship, what's going on in my situation, guys? Any suggestions welcome.

I dunno, bro. Define "relationship."

On second thought, don't bother.

Why bother?

I heard a good quote recently: You lose money chasing women. You DON'T lose women chasing money.

The trick of the game is to get them to chase you.

 

[mrarcher]

There's some mysterious truth in your statement. Every time I seem to ignore her, she runs after me. Every time I show affection and remind how much she means to me, she typically acts as if she doesn't really care. Some twisted strategy IMO.

Ever notice why happily married or gay men seem to have women fall in love with them so easily? It's because they are not interested in being with them and don't see them as some kind of enigma or conquest. They see women as other humans and treat them like they would a guy that they meet. The woman in question sees that he is interested in her for what she is and genuinely interested in what she has to say and accidentally falls in love. Its a bit like MJ's story about the cat. If you don't care about the money (getting with her) the more she will like you. Maybe it isn't some twisted strategy. Maybe she appreciates having you around and as a friend but doesn't want more. So when you show affection it puts her off.
A little tip for future though. Never Ever listen to pick up artists. They are the equivalent of get rich easy!
Don't push, don't try just let it happen, if nothing comes of it you still have a good friend. I have been with my with since I was 13 and have no interest in other women whatsoever, but if I go out in a bar or just normal situations I have had women try one way or another to get with me! Simply because I'm interested in them personally instead of trying to hook up with them.

 

[ModernAlpha]

A great book is Way of the Superior Man, it's about how a man should place his Mission as a priority and dating and everything else comes secondary. I agree with that, and I created this visualization which helps me alot:

I'm a powerful train on a track. I'm headed exactly where I want to go to reach my destination, the tracks are laid down already and in place. Passengers can hop on and hop off of my train anytime. If a woman is amazing and comes into my life, that's great, she can stay as long as things are awesome, we have fun together, I can love her, etc. but she is on my tracks. I'm still on my track no matter what. The train doesn't go a different direction/path no matter how badly the passengers want it to, its on a set track. Friends headed to the same direction as you will hop on and stay too, etc. They can also hop off whenever they want and that's fine. I'm on my track and headed where I'm going no matter what.

 

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[Ubermensch]

+1.

Minus all of the drugs and death, Scarface is a ridiculously educational tale of a man's rise to the upper echelons of wealth and power.

Money --> Power --> Women. IN THAT ORDER. Much more fun, AND much easier that way.

You know what they say about situations like this: Time heals all wounds.

And time is money.

Oh, snap.

 

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[Aaron W]

I haven't read any replies after you're original post.

It seems like scarcity is at play here.

I'm about to give you a nice slap approach to this.



I don't know why but I find a lot of people block out the best thing humans are good at.


Communication.


Why? Probably because its 2016 and no one talks person-to-person.

You see multiple relationships fall apart because someone simply wont talk to their partner about an issue. But that's off topic...




You need to talk to her.

And I don't mean in that movie style that has been conditioned so deep in to your mind you don't even realize how bad it is attractively.



You clearly want something: her.


Girls, believe it or not, like it when guys are clear in their intentions.



Seriously, sit down with her. Tell you 'like her' and would like to take her on a date.


Of course, say this how you naturally would.

Be confident.

I'm not you so what ever I say would be different to you.


However if it was me for reference sake (would be said in person not on the phone etc...):

"Hey so I know we've been hanging out a lot and I wanted to talk to you. I find you super awesome, really fun to get a long with...apart from your weird unicorn obsession but that's another topic *to take away the seriousness and tension*. I want to take you on a date, warning though I'll kick your a$$ at ping pong *to make the date seem fun and not serious/something for her to worry about* and if not I still want to be friends with you no matter what."


If she says she doesn't want to advance your relationship.

No problem.

Remain friends and say that's fine, you wanted to understand where you were at so you don't make her feel uncomfortable, aka try to make a move uncalibrated.



Strong. Confident. Respectable.




Honestly, best of luck with your relationship. I respect lots of people have issues with understanding how to deal with them.

 

[Unknown]

She just wants to keep you around while she dates a-holes. It's happened to many a nice guy, and it will continue happening as long as humans roam the earth.

You have to decide if you want to keep her as a friend, because you are in the dreaded friend zone. If you're ok with being friends then stop all romantic interaction, and treat her like a friend. If you're not ok with being friends then stop being there for her every whim. Make her come to you. She has all the power right now.

Either way you need to date someone else. It's not fair for you to wait around while she plays games.

 

[Longinus]

By putting this off, over-analyzing, and waiting for the perfect moment, you're wasting a lot of time that could be better spent on other women or your biz.

Ten years ago I wasted 1.5 year on a girl like that. She didn't wanted to reject me. But she didn't wanted a relation either. But she loved me. But she was not ready. But maybe later. But also maybe not.

I was a fool.

I recognize those situations very fast. You are also wasting time and energy. Ten years from now, you will be looking at yourself as I do now. Just have a relationship or not, but go on with your life.

 

[Almantas]

No, I am not with her. She's chasing me now, because I am too busy working on my goals. It really pissed me off when I found out that her ex regularly visits her. However, she started covering her a$$ by saying that she doesn't like/love/respect him (blah, blah, blah...). It seems that she wants to keep as many options open as possible, but doesn't realize the side effects of such strategy.

For instance, last time we had a conversation was on Sunday and I didn't text her until yesterday. Yesterday she texted me "you are so quiet, I hate this silence, how are you doing?". She regularly sends such messages to me, because I am working on my own stuff now. Like a week ago I missed a call from her and I called her back, she was like "wow, this is the first time you've called me!", invited me for a dinner on weekend, but I said I am too busy to make it happen, then she suggested a meeting on Friday; I said it's fine, but no longer than an hour, because I am busy.

To put it simply, I do like her,but... all this mind masturbation and drama involved drags me down at this point in life. Although nobody even noticed or implied that they did, but I have been suffering from depression for like 6 months. Also, I need a lot of time to make my business a reality and also going to gym 7 times per week. She will find many F*ck-budies who claim how special she's for them, guys who will don't give a F whether she respects them or not, guys who don't care that she's seeing her ex...I am not gonna be that guy.

3 years ago, on February 14th, 2013, my first ever girlfriend left me. We had been living together for 3 years. She was my first kiss, sex, holidays together etc. She was my everything and when she left me I was left with nothing, I was left with an empty heart. I was literally crying my eyes out for 2 years and living in my dreams where I was seeing her....I am fine now. After such struggle, this STUPID experience with this so called physically matured, but mentally incompetent girl is just a spit in the sea. If she's looking for the player, she's found the wrong one.

Thanks a bunch for your wisdom guys.

 

[MrOrigon]

I don't know how to quote MJ's reply to me, but...

Sorry, I feel like an a$$. I didn't know there was a people/relationships thread here...

I didn't mean to make a bad impression! I'm new here!

 

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[Almantas]

Sorry Almantas, I reread my reply and it was sour. You're right, this is supposed to be a friendly place - and I'M the one at fault for failing to realize that, in the forum you posted this in, it is a completely appropriate question.

That being said, let me offer some genuine advice (despite probably being quite a bit younger than you) - girls are pretty aware of body language and, in my experience, are pretty good at telling what a guy wants. If she's getting the vibe that you seem interested, and she's sticking around, that's a good sign. Don't be afraid to make the first move, whether it be telling her you want to take her out to dinner (specify that it will be a DATE and make your romantic intentions clear) or going in for a kiss.

If you're worried that going for a kiss and being rejected will ruin your relationship with her, know that you're in control of whether or not it's awkward. If you get rejected, just laugh, shrug, and say, "Well, I had to at least try" and continue your conversation. As long as you don't act embarrassed, she won't find it awkward and you can try again another time.

Hope I've redeemed myself... I feel like a fool

Thanks for your friendly advice. We all learn from our mistakes and you've learnt yours. Enjoy your stay on this forum and I hope you'll learn and contribute in the future!

 

[jazb]

Well do you like her? if yes, then go for it...because you my friend are an inch away from the friend zone.

 

[Almantas]

Here is my promise to all kind forum members:

The next time I will see her will probably be on Friday. I will ask her out for a lovely walk by the beach and kiss her.

Of course I hope for the best, but being stuck in a friend zone will be worse than being not accepted. Being stuck in a friend zone would be like a slow torture instead of a quick death; so I've nothing to lose but to gain in this situation.

Will keep you all updated on Friday.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Just kiss her the next time you see her, what do you have to lose?

Scenario A: She kisses you back, you start dating, and then back to business.

Scenario B: She friendzones you, no more time wasted, and then back to business.

 

[StevieB]

As promised, update on the situation:

Met her today, not in an ideal place for a kiss. After some consultation with women I decided to confront her with a question (instead of a plain kiss) regarding intimacy of our relationship. To put it simply, she said that she, at the moment, enjoys freedom, seeing different people and just using time to find herself. I made it very clear that I do like her and would like to share my future with her and would not compromise her freedom in any way.

This meeting was a reminder to her that my intentions are more than just being friends and that I am not willing to be placed in a friend-zone. It's a weird situation, sometimes it seems she turns on her defense mode when I confront her about our relationship, but then again, she is chasing me when I ignore her and work on improving my own life....

I'm going to give some advice that I would have given myself 6 years ago. I could get in to a long story about it but here's what I've realized.

Firstly stop thinking about this "soul mate" crap. She put that into your head and now she says she's not interested "in that way". It almost sounds like she's either playing games or very confused, either is not good. If you want more and not a 'friendship' shoulda went with the kiss. Their rarely is ever the best situation for one you have to create it and if you just go for it, that is much more attractive that waffling and 'talking about it'.

I was obsessed with a girl once, someone who I never met in real life but knew almost every intimate details of her life. Things were not progressing and each day that went by I became more disillusioned and upset because things never went to the next level. One day I realized how stupid I was. You're putting the "soul mate" relationship on a pedestal and it gets stuck in your head. One day I told her this wasn't good for me and I decided to cut off communication completely for months and it was the best thing I ever did. What you're doing is investing your romantic emotions and thoughts into someone who isn't reciprocating them and that is extremely bad for your well being. I did it the good part of 6-7 months.

There's way to many other women out there that are emotionally available for you to be perusing someone that doesn't know what they want. If finding a woman is what you want go to meetup.com, eharmony, okcupid, match, bars, night clubs or any other place that single women congregate. The world is filled with billions of people and half of them are the other sex. You create your own 'luck' by putting yourself out there in different situations. If all you do is think about 'this one girl' who doesn't even know what she wants you may have passed up 10 others that are just as qualified for the amount of time you've spent trying to get her, because to me it doesn't sound like she is emotionally available.

If by the time she IS and you are still single she will be more attracted to you because if you have as much as a good time together as you say she will miss you. So stop worrying and if you want to advance and she doesn't I would suggest you move on and keep looking elsewhere. Meetup is a great place to work on your social skills which is the #1 way to attract women and who knows, you may meet someone with similar interests.

 

[SteveO]

Follow this link for my advice. Games People Play

 

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[SteveO]

The friend zone position is usually for a good reason, even if all the other boxes are checked.

The magical ingredient is missing... [emoji312]

Regardless of reason. It must be recognized. In this case there were comments leading the poster to believe that there might be more.

Recognition is self defense.

 

[Captain Jack]

Don't even think of something called "relationship" if you haven't been in bed together yet ... and even then there's a long road to go and many experiences (roadblocks) to make/avoid to say "we are in a relationship". If you ever say it, is up to you. I don't. I date women, if she's there: fine ... if not: fine, too. Continued dates with sex and love can be called "relationship" BUT why bother about if this is called "relationship" then or not?!

Based on my experiences and observations, this is the wrong way to go about it if you are looking for something serious. I would recommend not having sex early on. This way, you'll get to know the woman without those kinds of emotions clouding your judgment.

Also, I've found that higher quality women want some kind of commitment before jumping into bed. She will most likely want the guy to wine and dine her and show her respect.

If you're looking for a good time, then this is a good attitude. If not, then I'd recommend a different approach.

No, I am not with her. She's chasing me now, because I am too busy working on my goals. It really pissed me off when I found out that her ex regularly visits her. However, she started covering her a$$ by saying that she doesn't like/love/respect him (blah, blah, blah...). It seems that she wants to keep as many options open as possible, but doesn't realize the side effects of such strategy.

For instance, last time we had a conversation was on Sunday and I didn't text her until yesterday. Yesterday she texted me "you are so quiet, I hate this silence, how are you doing?". She regularly sends such messages to me, because I am working on my own stuff now. Like a week ago I missed a call from her and I called her back, she was like "wow, this is the first time you've called me!", invited me for a dinner on weekend, but I said I am too busy to make it happen, then she suggested a meeting on Friday; I said it's fine, but no longer than an hour, because I am busy.

Based on what you write about this girl, it does not sound like she is particularly high quality. It sounds like she's very indecisive and has multiple men in her life. I'm willing to bet that she's in her late teens/early 20s as well and does is not established career-wise or financially. Am I right?

To put it simply, I do like her,but... all this mind masturbation and drama involved drags me down at this point in life. Although nobody even noticed or implied that they did, but I have been suffering from depression for like 6 months. Also, I need a lot of time to make my business a reality and also going to gym 7 times per week. She will find many F*ck-budies who claim how special she's for them, guys who will don't give a F whether she respects them or not, guys who don't care that she's seeing her ex...I am not gonna be that guy.

It sounds like you're a pretty serious guy and want something serious. I'd avoid women that have had a multitude of F*ck buddies if possible.

3 years ago, on February 14th, 2013, my first ever girlfriend left me. We had been living together for 3 years. She was my first kiss, sex, holidays together etc. She was my everything and when she left me I was left with nothing, I was left with an empty heart. I was literally crying my eyes out for 2 years and living in my dreams where I was seeing her....I am fine now. After such struggle, this STUPID experience with this so called physically matured, but mentally incompetent girl is just a spit in the sea. If she's looking for the player, she's found the wrong one.

Thanks a bunch for your wisdom guys.

I'm willing to bet that you're young too (early to mid-20s). I'd recommend not getting too hung up on a girl until you're at least in your late 20s. Keep dating, but don't get hung up.

I'm 29 and have had no problems attracting women in the past. However, I had no idea what I was doing in the past and did not understand women. I'm currently established in my career and financially stable. Combine this with a great understanding of women and you will have your choice of just about any woman you want. In the past few years, I've dated women anywhere from 18 (do not recommend) to 40.

It's truly a great time in life.

 

[Fox]

No, I am not with her. She's chasing me now, because I am too busy working on my goals. It really pissed me off when I found out that her ex regularly visits her. However, she started covering her a$$ by saying that she doesn't like/love/respect him (blah, blah, blah...). It seems that she wants to keep as many options open as possible, but doesn't realize the side effects of such strategy.

For instance, last time we had a conversation was on Sunday and I didn't text her until yesterday. Yesterday she texted me "you are so quiet, I hate this silence, how are you doing?". She regularly sends such messages to me, because I am working on my own stuff now. Like a week ago I missed a call from her and I called her back, she was like "wow, this is the first time you've called me!", invited me for a dinner on weekend, but I said I am too busy to make it happen, then she suggested a meeting on Friday; I said it's fine, but no longer than an hour, because I am busy.

Just read this thread this morning.

Here is my read of the situation. Her and her ex are still hooking up and she is using you as the emotional side of a relationship that she can't get from him. I have seen this many times before. One guy won't commit but the girl is still into him. She uses another guy up for all the parts of the relationship that the first guy won't provide - dates, romantic talk, emotional luggage.

When I worked in oil I had a girl I would casually hook up with when I was back in town. She had a guy who used to do all the stuff that I didn't have time for when I was gone. I would see FB photos of them at the cinema, eating ice cream, going for jogs. I presume he thought she would eventually 'see the light' and go with the guy (him) who is providing everything he thinks she needs but it doesn't work that way. Attraction isn't a choice. I eventually ended it and he was still sitting on the bench waiting for his chance. She had about 3 or 4 guys waiting on the bench after him too.

On a deeper biological level the reason for this is that a partner doesn't value what they can get too easily. By making yourself so invested without any real (sexual) commitment on her behalf you are basically saying that you have a low sexual value in the 'marketplace'. You can't logically convince her to be attracted to you and at this stage she probably won't ever be.

Some harsh truths in here but I think you need to hear them. You are wasting a lot of time and effort on this and bottom line - this girl will never truly be attracted to you, even if you get a relationship I don't think you could trust her fully. This isn't a reflection on you as a person, only on the dating approach you used.

Cut your losses, stop hanging out with her. She will try to stuck you back in cause she will miss the attention but just move on. Block number, FB, don't meet up. She might seem nice but she is using you.

In the future a good general dating approach is to have a lot of options going on at once. Just like applying for 10 jobs instead of just one you will be naturally less nervous, more fun and not over thinking small stuff. This is naturally attractive to girls. Someone already posted it but once a guy mentions 'this one girl' they need to move on. Hit me up on PM if you want some more advice.

 

[Ubermensch]

@Almantas I met you through a group that @Cyriex posted.

I am going to give you some advice that I wish someone gave me a long time ago.

Watch the above video, and listen very closely to the lyrics, especially at the end.

I would strongly suggest this mindset, even though it may be too extreme for the sensitive-minded, your personal experience in this situation, and the frustration you felt, demand that you apply a REALISTIC mindset.

Quit conversatin'.

Quit serenading.

Get to the money.

Things will go much differently for you once you have a fat bank account, once you have too much cash to fit in your pockets (even if you're using hundreds).

This thread is a total distraction, so much so that I had to type money over everything five times.

Money over everything, money over everything, money over everything, money over everything, money over everything.

Money over everything. Get it?

You think this girl would've played you like this if you were rich?

LOL! She would be lucky to even have a SHOT with you if you were rich.

Right now, you have nothing to offer her aside from your own horny neediness.

So you caught the one-itis - a psychological affliction which often afflicts guys when they don't have options.

You can catch the one-itis in sales, if you don't have enough prospects.

The same logic applies with pickup.