The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

Welcome to the only entrepreneur forum dedicated to building life-changing wealth.

Build a Fastlane business. Earn real financial freedom. Join free.

Join over 80,000 entrepreneurs who have rejected the paradigm of mediocrity and said "NO!" to underpaid jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence.

Free registration at the forum removes this block.

Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency Discussion (And Predictions)

Timmy C

I Will Not Stop!
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
230%
Jun 12, 2018
2,921
6,727
Melbourne, Australia
I have never seen more different price opinions in this thread than now. Here's my opinion.

The Asian stock market is up. February Bitcoin futures expired last Friday. Positivism is returning to online crypto forums. People are starting to talk about the stimulus check. Very soon, the heaviest dip last week is more than 7 days ago, normies watching coinmarketcap and coingecko will therefore forget the dip even happened.

I don't think we have entered a bear market yet.

Ethereum has received much hate in the last few weeks for its high fees. Sooner or later people will realize that high fees == high usage. ETH relative to BTC will probably go up this month, while ADA/BTC goes down. I'm flirting with the idea of shorting ADA, but it's hard to say how long the Cardano community hive mind can push the price.
Ultimately I think cooling off here for a bit is a good idea.

Keep the celebrity posts at bay for a while, and hopefully makes us not have a premature blow-off top.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Frinys

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
272%
Oct 28, 2019
106
288
Ultimately I think cooling off here for a bit is a good idea.

Keep the celebrity posts at bay for a while, and hopefully makes us not have a premature blow-off top.
I agree, it would definitely be the best for long-term adoption. But with corona free time, stimulus checks, and the stock market going bananas, I don't think that will happen.
 

Timmy C

I Will Not Stop!
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
230%
Jun 12, 2018
2,921
6,727
Melbourne, Australia
For any type of mass adoption to occur.

We must get human readable addresses.

crypto addresses as they are is like having a horse powered steam engine.
 

Ondkeso

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
125%
Aug 11, 2020
4
5
Sweden

Timmy C

I Will Not Stop!
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
230%
Jun 12, 2018
2,921
6,727
Melbourne, Australia

Kak

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
492%
Jan 23, 2011
9,678
47,664
34
Texas
Sooner or later people will realize that high fees == high usage.

I understand your point that higher transaction fees means adoption is looking good... but won’t more adoption make those fees even higher?

The reason I ask is in the crypto stuff that I’ve done, the fees are often much much higher than even a credit card fee would be. It already seems more expensive than just swiping a visa. IE, not competitive with alternatives.

How is this growing problem not considered a big a$$ headwind for the big two cryptos? Not arguing, just asking. Wasn’t easy, infinitely divisible, and nearly free, transfer of value from anyone to anyone kind of the point?
 
Last edited:

Sethamus

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
179%
Sep 13, 2019
425
759
Northshore area, New Orleans
I understand your point that higher transaction fees means adoption is looking good... but won’t more adoption make those fees even higher?

The reason I ask is in the crypto stuff that I’ve done, the fees are often much much higher than even a credit card fee would be. It already seems more expensive than just swiping a visa. IE, not competitive with alternatives.

How is this growing problem not considered a big a$$ headwind for the big two cryptos. Not arguing, just asking. Wasn’t easy, infinitely divisible, and nearly free, transfer of money from anyone to anyone kind of the point?
IMO. Once visa and MasterCard come on board I image it would be how today’s fiat is used in the retail space. For business transactions where actual instant transfer may be needed the fees are not that expensive. Eventually ETH will fix the fees or a smaller altcoin(it could be one visa and master back) comes to the forefront for daily retail transactions.
For me it really isn’t a big deal that I can’t go buy candy bar in crypto. Can I go buy a house with a smart contract that’s digitized where I don’t have to sign millions of papers and go to a stupid office? That is what I want.

I really haven’t done any research on how to find out which of these alts are you going to win so I don’t hold any. Would it be possible though to have eventually the top few all be broadly excepted? We have the penny still today....and compared to a $100 bill which is common. Could Bitcoin be the main value holder and these other alt coins fill in the gaps to normalize the retail market? 1xyz = 0.000013 BTC or something.

I have no clue, but this is what I think about when talking about alts. I’ll do more research after the bull run to see if I should position myself in alts. How do y’all see the broad picture in 10 years @csalvato @Timmy C @GPM @AceVentures and everyone else I didn’t tag.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

James Fake

Gold Contributor
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
150%
May 4, 2009
1,494
2,244
Las Vegas, NV
Ah, yes...

The Fear post was in relation to what was happening in the broad market and a hike in bond rates having people scared to buy the big dip on Thursday and Friday.

I told almost everybody I know to buy the dip in stocks and Bitcoin before this upcoming melt up to create the top. Almost none of them bought anything lol.

Within the next 2-3 weeks is when I have Bitcoin sky-rocketing towards $100k target.


These same people are going to hit me when Bitcoin is at $60k here (within this week likely) and asking me should they buy; I will send them a screenshot of me telling to buy the $46-47k dip and dca anything lower..
 
Last edited:

Frinys

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
272%
Oct 28, 2019
106
288
I understand your point that higher transaction fees means adoption is looking good... but won’t more adoption make those fees even higher?
Yep, it will.

The fee argument illustrates why Ethereum is much more valuable than Cardano. Cardano does not even support dApps yet, while Ethereum has so many dApps that the fees are getting out of hand.

Right now, the fees are acting as proof that Ethereum is useful. The big question is how Eth 2.0 is going to turn out.
The reason I ask is in the crypto stuff that I’ve done, the fees are often much much higher than even a credit card fee would be. It already seems more expensive than just swiping a visa. IE, not competitive with alternatives.
It really depends on how money much you move and if you move between borders or not. A cup of coffee and a 10$ fee on top is expensive. But for a $1M transfer, the $10 fee is peanuts.
How is this growing problem not considered a big a$$ headwind for the big two cryptos. Not arguing, just asking. Wasn’t easy, infinitely divisible, and nearly free, transfer of value from anyone to anyone kind of the point?
It's a good question. Ethereum must solve the problem, and that's what they are trying to do with Ethereum 2.0. But it takes time, and much can happen before then. I'm open to the possibility that another blockchain can overtake Ethereum's throne in the future. But right now, no other blockchain can match it in terms of usage.

Bitcoin is the most secure trustless system in the world. That is worth very high fees if you ask me, much higher than todays.

I don't think that Bitcoin or Ethereum will ever be used for daily transactions. But other blockchain solutions exist that suit daily transactions better.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
191%
Sep 3, 2017
2,427
4,628
Singapore
I hope and want crypto to crash for good with no point of return, so that we won't be in a world where crypto (bitcoin especially) replaces fiat and becomes the de-facto currency of all transactions.

It's scary when you think of this scenario whereby a customer pays you 0.0002 bitcoin for a product purchased via your ecommerce store, and that 0.0002 is say, for e.g, worth $45 at that time of purchase. Then next week, bitcoin suddenly dips 25%, and you're F*cked. You've made a loss. And then you've no choice but to keep hodling the bitcoin you've and wait till the right time to sell it to make a profit. F*ck. That then becomes a full-time investment job on top of the ecom store. How shitty is that. And I can't imagine trying to convert between crypto to fiat exchange rate in each calculation, and it would be messy in the accounting books as well. F*ck! Can you imagine doing corporate accounts with crypto instead of fiat?

Hope this nightmare never materializes. May bitcoin and crypto all go the hell!!!
 

Bekit

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
493%
Aug 13, 2018
1,135
5,601
I hope and want crypto to crash for good with no point of return, so that we won't be in a world where crypto (bitcoin especially) replaces fiat and becomes the de-facto currency of all transactions.

It's scary when you think of this scenario whereby a customer pays you 0.0002 bitcoin for a product purchased via your ecommerce store, and that 0.0002 is say, for e.g, worth $45 at that time of purchase. Then next week, bitcoin suddenly dips 25%, and you're f*cked. You've made a loss. And then you've no choice but to keep hodling the bitcoin you've and wait till the right time to sell it to make a profit. f*ck. That then becomes a full-time investment job on top of the ecom store. How shitty is that. And I can't imagine trying to convert between crypto to fiat exchange rate in each calculation, and it would be messy in the accounting books as well. f*ck! Can you imagine doing corporate accounts with crypto instead of fiat?

Hope this nightmare never materializes. May bitcoin and crypto all go the hell!!!
The thing is, if we get to the point where crypto replaces fiat, it will no longer be the speculative roller-coaster ride that it is today. If crypto replaces fiat, that means that it will have reached the point of mass adoption. That means that there will no longer be huge gains left to be made. Sudden dips 25% will be a thing of the past. The fluctuations that do exist will be similar to the small fluctuations that we see today between currencies. To take one example, the exchange rate between USD and EUR changes constantly. But that doesn't make a noticeable blip in most people's finances. The exchange rate matters to people engaged heavily in international commerce. That's about it.

If we get to the point where crypto replaces fiat, nobody is going to be stressing over whether their 0.0002 BTC is still worth $45. All that they will care about is that their account went up by 0.0002 BTC. The exchange rate to USD will be meaningless, because USD will be irrelevant.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
191%
Sep 3, 2017
2,427
4,628
Singapore
The thing is, if we get to the point where crypto replaces fiat, it will no longer be the speculative roller-coaster ride that it is today. If crypto replaces fiat, that means that it will have reached the point of mass adoption. That means that there will no longer be huge gains left to be made. Sudden dips 25% will be a thing of the past. The fluctuations that do exist will be similar to the small fluctuations that we see today between currencies. To take one example, the exchange rate between USD and EUR changes constantly. But that doesn't make a noticeable blip in most people's finances. The exchange rate matters to people engaged heavily in international commerce. That's about it.

If we get to the point where crypto replaces fiat, nobody is going to be stressing over whether their 0.0002 BTC is still worth $45. All that they will care about is that their account went up by 0.0002 BTC. The exchange rate to USD will be meaningless, because USD will be irrelevant.

I hope so! The world is in a mania phase over bitcoin now, and these recent news of banks buying bitcoin and payment services accepting bitcoin is unsettling. I sure hope they're not crazy enough to make irrational decisions in making plans right now to replace fiat otherwise we're going to be in a world of pain.
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
191%
Sep 3, 2017
2,427
4,628
Singapore
Where have you been for the last 13 months?

No matter what happens, we are in for a world of pain.

buckle up

The pain from Covid19 is nothing from the chaos that crypto will bring the world, I'm afraid.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Frinys

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
272%
Oct 28, 2019
106
288
The pain from Covid19 is nothing from the chaos that crypto will bring the world, I'm afraid.
This post got a little longer than it was supposed to. I hope that I can help explain why such crypto chaos will never happen so that you don't have to fear that it will. :)

I don't think the crypto chaos you are talking about will happen. Remember, everything currency fluctuates. But price fluctuations diminish when usage increases.

The reason why Bitcoin and other crypto prices fluctuates so much is because no one really know how much one Bitcoin is worth. Is one bitcoin worth an apple? A 2000 square feet house? A barrel of oil? A rocket ship? Nothing? We don't know yet.

This will change when adoption occurs:
If person A sells houses for one bitcoin each, then 1 BTC is worth 1 House.
Then person B joins, which sell apples for 1 BTC each, 1 BTC is worth 1 Apple or 1 House.

In this example, what is the worth of bitcoin? Somewhere between 1 Apple and 1 House, but it is unclear exactly how much. But when more en more people start trading goods and assets with bitcoin, the market will correct itself toward Bitcoin's true value. Fluctuations will diminish to a point where it fluctuates just as little as any fiat currency.

The picture below is the US Dollar Index for the last 40 years. As seen, even the USD fluctuates. But no one notices those fluctuations in their daily lives, because all goods and assets in America are listed in USD.
Screenshot 2021-03-02 at 09.24.58.png
The same effect will happen for crypto, when or if adoption happens. No one will notice the fluctuations anymore. But adoption comes with some side effects.

Side effects include:
- No need for a middle man (bank, trusted party)
- Easy and quick transfer between border
- Programmable money
- A global currency not bound to any borders
- New, unknown use cases

Adoption will not happen overnight, and at some point, people just use crypto, without thinking about fluctuations. And when it happens, we will have a new, much better monetary system compared to today's fiat.
 

MitchC

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
283%
Mar 8, 2014
1,965
5,552
Australia
Here’s a good thread for the clown who’s worried about bitcoin getting mass adoption and still fluctuating wildly at the same time??

 

Timmy C

I Will Not Stop!
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
230%
Jun 12, 2018
2,921
6,727
Melbourne, Australia
Here’s a good thread for the clown who’s worried about bitcoin getting mass adoption and still fluctuating wildly at the same time??

You would have to be on crack to be selling your bitcoin.

Obviously doesn't apply to all situations.

Number go up technology vs number go down technology.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

csalvato

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
297%
May 5, 2014
2,058
6,106
39
Rocky Mountain West
The pain from Covid19 is nothing from the chaos that crypto will bring the world, I'm afraid.
Maybe, but even if crypto didn’t exist it would be just as painful, with no solution but to continue trusting our irresponsible governments.

play out the situation in your head without crypto... it’s just as bad or worse
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
191%
Sep 3, 2017
2,427
4,628
Singapore
This post got a little longer than it was supposed to. I hope that I can help explain why such crypto chaos will never happen so that you don't have to fear that it will. :)

I don't think the crypto chaos you are talking about will happen. Remember, everything currency fluctuates. But price fluctuations diminish when usage increases.

The reason why Bitcoin and other crypto prices fluctuates so much is because no one really know how much one Bitcoin is worth. Is one bitcoin worth an apple? A 2000 square feet house? A barrel of oil? A rocket ship? Nothing? We don't know yet.

This will change when adoption occurs:
If person A sells houses for one bitcoin each, then 1 BTC is worth 1 House.
Then person B joins, which sell apples for 1 BTC each, 1 BTC is worth 1 Apple or 1 House.

In this example, what is the worth of bitcoin? Somewhere between 1 Apple and 1 House, but it is unclear exactly how much. But when more en more people start trading goods and assets with bitcoin, the market will correct itself toward Bitcoin's true value. Fluctuations will diminish to a point where it fluctuates just as little as any fiat currency.

The picture below is the US Dollar Index for the last 40 years. As seen, even the USD fluctuates. But no one notices those fluctuations in their daily lives, because all goods and assets in America are listed in USD.
View attachment 37004
The same effect will happen for crypto, when or if adoption happens. No one will notice the fluctuations anymore. But adoption comes with some side effects.

Side effects include:
- No need for a middle man (bank, trusted party)
- Easy and quick transfer between border
- Programmable money
- A global currency not bound to any borders
- New, unknown use cases

Adoption will not happen overnight, and at some point, people just use crypto, without thinking about fluctuations. And when it happens, we will have a new, much better monetary system compared to today's fiat.


Thanks for the wonderful explanation. What about the fact that crypto isn't backed by the state/government/military like how fiat is? The lack of that gives the common man no assurance. The idea of money being stored in some "blockchain" thing and it's all digital, is unnerving.

Also, it's said that there'll only ever be 21 million bitcoins. Because the supply is so small and finite, at some point it'll be insufficient (even if 1 BTC is $0.0001 USD). Not sure what's gonna happen if that's the case. Physical military wars? LOL

I hope eventually governments will come up with their own stablecoins, regulated by the government.
Will feel more assured that way. The whole crypto feels like some wild wild west chaotic world right now....
 

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
191%
Sep 3, 2017
2,427
4,628
Singapore
Here’s a good thread for the clown who’s worried about bitcoin getting mass adoption and still fluctuating wildly at the same time??


Clown? LOL these are questions the common everyday man/woman will have about crypto. Not everyone is a reddit geek or savvy crypto investor/blockchain programmer.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Matt Sun

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
252%
Oct 21, 2017
572
1,442
Argentina
Clown? LOL these are questions the common everyday man/woman will have about crypto. Not everyone is a reddit geek or savvy crypto investor/blockchain programmer.
The people of Venezuela are doing great with FIAT. You need just 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 bolivares now to buy 1 btc.
 

Kak

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
492%
Jan 23, 2011
9,678
47,664
34
Texas
Clown? LOL these are questions the common everyday man/woman will have about crypto. Not everyone is a reddit geek or savvy crypto investor/blockchain programmer.
"Maybe the common man should stop being a retard and learn a thing or two about a thing or two and be less common. Bitcoin to $1B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

LOL. In all honestly, I don't think THIS is IT, but I hope it is the start of something out of the grasps of government.

The whole decimal point thing becomes a nonissue with use. It is just like traveling and converting on a funky exchange rate. Basically, if you lived there, you would know.

Also, if it was THE currency, it would be no less stable than THE currency now, which is also based on nothing and actually eroded for political expedience. The widespread daily use is what stabilizes it.
 
Last edited:
G

Guest-5ty5s4

Guest
It makes me think of how Social Media executives highly limit their kids use as they understand the danger.

This is something I think about a lot.

Also, let's say this happens and crypto is the new mainstream currency of the world and we get closer to the "dream" of a decentralized economy without government interference (I really don't see this happening since power always finds a way to maintain itself).

Who records the deeds to real property?
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Kak

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
492%
Jan 23, 2011
9,678
47,664
34
Texas
Who records the deeds to real property?

This is my only problem with AnCap thinking. I absolutely love the theory and discussion of it. The practice, however, might be interesting.

On one hand there is only one property owner in the USA, the Government. It is theirs and you rent it from them.

The only reason the US government owns it instead of some other overlord is because they have the most guns and willingness to use them. All borders are drawn basically when the world is at a relative violence equilibrium. Borders exist because of guns. They didn’t file these borders with a higher authority. They just simply are.

The fact of the matter is this. We are most prosperous with the least amount of government and we are most oppressed with most amount of government. Measures should always be taken to limit government as much as possible. Now, eliminate government? I would argue it would be difficult and abstract, but we would have pockets of cooperating people either way.

If the land was TRULY yours, to the deepest definition of the word “yours,” it would be your country, and you would be the dictator of it. Sounds cool right? How many guns do you have? They and your willingness to use them are now the only thing drawing your border.

Obviously there are private sector solutions to this, like widespread treaties and alliances, but it is all general theory and never been tried. Read some Murray Rothbard, it is fascinating stuff.

Super small units of government are the most realistic. Little governments that actually represent the area and also have to compete with other nearby governments for the residency of the best and brightest. They have to run the place like a business, or go out of business.

Seasteading will be the first attempt at stateless society and it might be epic. Don’t like the rules, yacht your a$$ to a place with rules you like.

The bottom line, until we put the government in a place where what is in their best interest is ALSO in our best interest, we will experience some level of oppression. It is absolutely possible, but it is currently NOT how things work.
 
Last edited:
G

Guest-5ty5s4

Guest
This is my only problem with AnCap thinking. I absolutely love the theory and discussion of it. The practice, however, might be interesting.

On one hand there is only one property owner in the USA, the Government. It is theirs and you rent it from them.

The only reason the US government owns it instead of some other overlord is because they have the most guns and willingness to use them. All borders are drawn basically when the world is at a relative violence equilibrium. Borders exist because of guns.

The fact of the matter is this. We are most prosperous with the least amount of government and we are most oppressed with most amount of government. Measures should always be taken to limit government as much as possible. Now, eliminate government? I would argue it would be difficult and abstract, but we would have pockets of cooperating people either way.

If the land was TRULY yours, to the deepest definition of the word “yours,” it would be your country, and you would be the dictator of it. Sounds cool right? How many guns do you have? They and your willingness to use them are now the only thing drawing your border.

Obviously there are private sector solutions to this, like widespread treaties and alliances, but it is all general theory and never been tried. Read some Murray Rothbard, it is fascinating stuff.

Super small units of government are the most realistic. Little governments that actually represent the area and also have to compete with other nearby governments for the residency of the best and brightest.

Seasteading will be the first attempt at stateless society and it might be epic. Don’t like the rules, yacht your a$$ to a place with rules you like.

Yup, this exactly! You need to have some kind of accountability otherwise your land is only yours insofar as you can defend it. And IDK, hiring bands of mercenaries just isn't my cup of tea.

However, this is a crypto opportunity, maybe, because you could (this has insane barriers to entry) create a cryptocurrency assigned to different units of real estate that's all open and transparent, sort of like the property appraiser's tax records.

Boom! No property tax, complete history and record of who owns the land

;)

But yeah until that takes off (Not holding my breath) we are going to need some kind of government to protect the property you own and paid for.
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

Guest post submissions offered HERE.

Latest Posts

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top