The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[Matt Sun]

According to the newspaper, Tanzania Perspective, (and other African newspapers) the Madagascar President refused a $20 million bribe from the World Health Organization for the herbal COVID19 cure, Artemisia Annua, to be poisoned. This would harm consumers and discredit it, thereby giving credit to WHO for advice not to try any ‘clinically untested’ remedies.

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

COVID is absolutely expediting a due correction. However, it’s gone way beyond that and the economy has been
crushed into a depression. Forget what the NYSE looks like, unemployment and the bond market is where you see depressions. Both are in crisis.

McDonald’s is hardly a restaurant, not only because their “food” sucks, but also because of how their operation is structured. It’s a real estate company.

There are vast numbers of wildly successful restaurants with plenty of cash that have or will go under from this. It’s not because they are weak. The government forced an environment that only fast food and take out “restaurants” can survive in. A high end restaurant cannot survive on takeout, they need full tables Thursday through Saturday. They need a packed bar. Current government mandate prohibits that, and essentially cut their heads off overnight.

@MoreValue So I guess upscale restaurants and hospitality businesses were “weak.”

The good operations were just as affected by this as the poor ones.

Right, all businesses are affected by the pandemic. The difference is that strong businesses survive it and weak businesses don't. I should have clarified what I consider a "weak business." To me a weak business is one that has low cash reserves to handle random events like this with the combination of high operating expenses.

Edit: Also to add, single form of revenue source.

 

[traction2]

Colorado amends coronavirus death count - says fewer have died of COVID-19 than previously reported

Colorado has made a stunning and significant change to the way it counts C0VlD-19 deaths that reduced the statewide figure from more than 1,000 to 878, according to a report.

www.foxnews.com

EDIT: Here is a Direct link that shows the new classification.

COVID19 | Department of Public Health & Environment

covid19.colorado.gov

And the number may be even lower, this is the quote they use to count deaths:
"This represents the total number of people whose death was attributed to C0VlD-19 as indicated on a death certificate."

 

[Xeon]

By the end of this year, I'm very curious to know if Sweden's method is working.

 

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[Kak]

By the end of this year, I'm very curious to know if Sweden's method is working.

The Stockholm syndrome crew will come up reasons why Sweden is the exception. They will cite cultural or genetic differences that are undefinable. They will proclaim without intellectual strain that lax lockdown protocols would not have worked anywhere, but there. They will shame you for even making such arguments as if you want people to needlessly suffer and die. Nothing will come of facts and reasoning literally nuking holes in every angle of their arguments.

No matter what happens. Stockholm syndrome will prevail for one simple reason. They are the majority. They will be right and the rest if us will be wrong.

They will find a way to make it relativistic, as they do with everything, and we will continue to walk towards communism as if it hasn’t been tried.

 

[Kak]

More and more reports seem to be signaling that, in many places around the country, the government shutdown policy has now scuicided more people than the virus has killed.

That alone is cause to lift everything. The death rate of killing oneself is 100%.

Let’s also be clear. No one will kill themselves because they are afraid of a virus that has a fraction of a fraction of a percent chance of killing them. They kill themselves out of feelings of desperation and hopelessness.

 

[GPM]

I want these government agencies who spout how much good they do to also calculate the mental anguish and lost production due to this. Not everyone just kills themselves. Some people retract into a ball and spent their lives doing nothing because of this.

What happens to all these kids with Karen as a mom who are no longer allowed to socialize and are now raised to rat on anyone they see outside not living in fear? What happens when this becomes ingrained as normal in an entire generation?

I might be going a little far with that, but there are so many ramifications for what has happened that no Karen ever wants to talk about. But we gotta keep that 0.1% safe!! Lock everyone healthy in their homes. Why not protect those who need it? Nearly every death I hear about in Canada is due to someone infected entering a long-term care facility. Why not protect them? Why do children and adults need to be protected from something that has absolutely minuscule chances of harming them?

I propose that we formally have a world lockdown every flu season as well. We need to stop people from getting sick all together! I WON'T ALLOW IT!! Oh, whats that? People want to go outside and get fresh air? We will permit it between the hours of 06:00-07:45 and 17:00-19:00. Why you ask? Because we say so, we know best.

I also propose that we provide immunity cards and create two classes of citizens. Those who are immune to this and everyone else. Everyone who is not immune is not allowed to become immune or infect themselves, they must remain at home at all times. Everyone who has their papers can be out, but prepare to be stopped and carded at every chance from a masked and armed authority figure.

Problem solved. The world is now a wonderful place.

 

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[Kak]

I want these government agencies who spout how much good they do to also calculate the mental anguish and lost production due to this. Not everyone just kills themselves. Some people retract into a ball and spent their lives doing nothing because of this.

What happens to all these kids with Karen as a mom who are no longer allowed to socialize and are now raised to rat on anyone they see outside not living in fear? What happens when this becomes ingrained as normal in an entire generation?

I might be going a little far with that, but there are so many ramifications for what has happened that no Karen ever wants to talk about. But we gotta keep that 0.1% safe!! Lock everyone healthy in their homes. Why not protect those who need it? Nearly every death I hear about in Canada is due to someone infected entering a long-term care facility. Why not protect them? Why do children and adults need to be protected from something that has absolutely minuscule chances of harming them?

I propose that we formally have a world lockdown every flu season as well. We need to stop people from getting sick all together! I WON'T ALLOW IT!! Oh, whats that? People want to go outside and get fresh air? We will permit it between the hours of 06:00-07:45 and 17:00-19:00. Why you ask? Because we say so, we know best.

I also propose that we provide immunity cards and create two classes of citizens. Those who are immune to this and everyone else. Everyone who is not immune is not allowed to become immune or infect themselves, they must remain at home at all times. Everyone who has their papers can be out, but prepare to be stopped and carded at every chance from a masked and armed authority figure.

Problem solved. The world is now a wonderful place.

The only thing that last bit was missing was also exemption for all politicians from the rules being enforced, irrespective of immunity.

 

[anthonyseoul]

I want these government agencies who spout how much good they do to also calculate the mental anguish and lost production due to this. Not everyone just kills themselves. Some people retract into a ball and spent their lives doing nothing because of this.

What happens to all these kids with Karen as a mom who are no longer allowed to socialize and are now raised to rat on anyone they see outside not living in fear? What happens when this becomes ingrained as normal in an entire generation?

I might be going a little far with that, but there are so many ramifications for what has happened that no Karen ever wants to talk about. But we gotta keep that 0.1% safe!! Lock everyone healthy in their homes. Why not protect those who need it? Nearly every death I hear about in Canada is due to someone infected entering a long-term care facility. Why not protect them? Why do children and adults need to be protected from something that has absolutely minuscule chances of harming them?

I propose that we formally have a world lockdown every flu season as well. We need to stop people from getting sick all together! I WON'T ALLOW IT!! Oh, whats that? People want to go outside and get fresh air? We will permit it between the hours of 06:00-07:45 and 17:00-19:00. Why you ask? Because we say so, we know best.

I also propose that we provide immunity cards and create two classes of citizens. Those who are immune to this and everyone else. Everyone who is not immune is not allowed to become immune or infect themselves, they must remain at home at all times. Everyone who has their papers can be out, but prepare to be stopped and carded at every chance from a masked and armed authority figure.

Problem solved. The world is now a wonderful place.

I’ve been thinking about some of the new norms when my two daughters return to school. Do I really want them in this kind of environment for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week?

• Keeping two metres apart from friends and being wary of getting too close to anyone
• Not being allowed to sit close to friends or even at the same desk, as chairs and desks are moved apart
• Signs everywhere telling them exactly where to stand, what to do, what to wear, and that they’re being good children for following these orders
• Tape on the floors telling them which direction to walk
• An obsessive ritual of washing and sanitizing hands at every opportunity
• New rules on what games the children can and can’t play in the playground
• ‘Teaching’ them about what coronavirus is and why we have to keep our distance from other humans and generally be worried about this thing

I’m sure there will be other ‘new norms’ for schools that I haven’t thought of.
This doesn’t sound at all healthy to me.

 

[LightningHelix]

I've been out of the loop for sometime. Does anybody have some accurate data on what the actual death rate is?

I've been looking at the princess cruise ship from this study: Estimating the infection and case fatality ratio for C0VlD-19 using age-adjusted data from the outbreak on the Diamond Princess cruise ship

in summary by age:


Princess Cruise ship is still about as good of a control group as one can get. It seems that about half the cases are asymptomatic. This would mean our death toll is probably much less than advertised, but it looks like a mortality rate of 1.13%. We also have to take in consideration that most of the passengers were over the age of 60. (In this case 58% of them were above 60).

@GIlman so far I trust your opinion on this subject, so if you have any other good updated sources that would be great.

I'm trying to decide how I should approach this pandemic at this point, and I don't give a damn what the government has to say about it. They clearly can't make up thier mind what to do. They have pressure to keep people safe on one end and pressure to get the economy running again on the other. Combined with all the information they are getting, they are all over the place.

However, a complete and total lockdown of everything seems way too excessive at this point, as this does not seem to be a total zombie apocalypse at this point.

 

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[MTF]

The Stockholm syndrome crew will come up reasons why Sweden is the exception. They will cite cultural or genetic differences that are undefinable. They will proclaim without intellectual strain that lax lockdown protocols would not have worked anywhere, but there. They will shame you for even making such arguments as if you want people to needlessly suffer and die. Nothing will come of facts and reasoning literally nuking holes in every angle of their arguments.

No matter what happens. Stockholm syndrome will prevail for one simple reason. They are the majority. They will be right and the rest if us will be wrong.

They will find a way to make it relativistic, as they do with everything, and we will continue to walk towards communism as if it hasn’t been tried.

This is why I stopped being excited about new developments regarding the virus, how many more people than reported have had it already, what the actual mortality rate is, etc.

I used to believe that it would change things. Now I know that it won't. The sheer amount of absurd restrictions and all the BS associated with this situation makes me lose hope in humanity, or at least the ability to think logically, based on facts that have changed diametrically since the beginning. As AwakenWithJP ironically said in this video:

This new scientific data is irrelevant to me. I already made up my mind when I was the most frightened, and I'm going to keep on believing what makes me the most frightened. Because it's more congruent to my being that way. The more scared I am, the more obedient I am.

At this point, in almost every single country around the world the decisions are made by populist politicians who want to buy votes from obedient, afraid sheeple who look up to their overlords as their saviors (despite the so-called "leaders" f****** it up over and over and over again).

It doesn't matter what the facts are, the virus doesn't even matter that much anymore—it's all about using it as a tool to control people through fear. The government can use the virus as an excuse to do whatever it pleases. Constitution, the rule of law, human rights—nothing matters anymore because the virus is out there and it's gonna get ya!

I can find some respite from all this BS only out in the ocean (gracefully "allowed" to be there between 6 and 9 am because of course the virus is gonna kill us all past 9) among surfers who largely don't seem to give a f*** about it as well. At least for a couple of hours I can forget about the sad state of the world. But then back on dry land I see idiots exercising in masks with nobody around them and I want to punch someone in the face.

But well, like I said, no matter what we say or do, it's not going to change anything. I sometimes think it would easier to be your stereotypical Karen and obey blindly than actually use your brain.

I’ve been thinking about some of the new norms when my two daughters return to school. Do I really want them in this kind of environment for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week?

• Keeping two metres apart from friends and being wary of getting too close to anyone
• Not being allowed to sit close to friends or even at the same desk, as chairs and desks are moved apart
• Signs everywhere telling them exactly where to stand, what to do, what to wear, and that they’re being good children for following these orders
• Tape on the floors telling them which direction to walk
• An obsessive ritual of washing and sanitizing hands at every opportunity
• New rules on what games the children can and can’t play in the playground
• ‘Teaching’ them about what coronavirus is and why we have to keep our distance from other humans and generally be worried about this thing

I’m sure there will be other ‘new norms’ for schools that I haven’t thought of.
This doesn’t sound at all healthy to me.

They're training them to become obedient disinfectant-addicted hand-washing socially-inept sheeple. They make better voters. Don't you know?

If I had children I would never let them go to a regular school, let alone now. If this continues, the new generation will be largely devoid of intelligent people who think for themselves.

 

[Andreas Thiel]

I'm trying to decide how I should approach this pandemic at this point, and I don't give a damn what the government has to say about it. They clearly can't make up thier mind what to do. They have pressure to keep people safe on one end and pressure to get the economy running again on the other. Combined with all the information they are getting, they are all over the place.

However, a complete and total lockdown of everything seems way too excessive at this point, as this does not seem to be a total zombie apocalypse at this point.

Wondering what difference the exact numbers make in your decision making process.

Personally I simplify it to 0.5% below 65 and 10%+ above 65.
That is still a lot. Imagine 30% of the 17 million over 65 in Germany get infected, that would make 500,000 who die.
If we are actually closer to 20% mortality - yes, that doubles it ... but what actionable implications are there?
Would be great if we could speed things up and make sure herd immunity is reached with as many healthy individuals as possible. But I don't see a way to make that happen.

 

[James Klymus]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD2M63qYqVs


Mike Rowe always has some good wisdom to share

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

Sorry for the ignorance, but how are people being this depressed. Aren’t people getting $600/week on top of regular unemployment and those stimulus checks? This money is much more than what some of these people are making when working.

Also, what do you guys think about Italy? They didn’t bother locking down and didn’t they get wrecked?

 

[JamesQB8]

Sorry for the ignorance, but how are people being this depressed. Aren’t people getting $600/week on top of regular unemployment and those stimulus checks? This money is much more than what some of these people are making when working.

Also, what do you guys think about Italy? They didn’t bother locking down and didn’t they get wrecked?

Yes you are being ignorant.

'People' applies to a demographic that are able to claim unemployment. What about brick and mortar business owners? What happens when that unemployment money dries up and there's a lot less work to go back to? Or worse the government just keep dumping more money into the economy without productivity causing a spike in consumer inflation and cost of living?

I'm currently living in Colombia and the informal economy here is the only thing feeding a lot of families and we have been under strict lockdown for over 8 weeks now... The world is not just the USA.

 

[DeletedUser0287]

Yes you are being ignorant.

'People' applies to a demographic that are able to claim unemployment. What about brick and mortar business owners? What happens when that unemployment money dries up and there's a lot less work to go back to? Or worse the government just keep dumping more money into the economy without productivity causing a spike in consumer inflation and cost of living?

I'm currently living in Colombia and the informal economy here is the only thing feeding a lot of families and we have been under strict lockdown for over 8 weeks now... The world is not just the USA.

Wasn't asking if I was being ignorant, I already claimed that in the first sentence of my post...no need for the confirmation.

Yeah, I was just referencing USA. But I was asking how people keep saying it’s bad now with all the money going out.Of course it is going to get worse, but that wasn’t what I was asking. I was saying now.

 

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[ChrisV]

In retrospect here's what we should have done. See back when I was growing up there was no Chicken Pox vaccine. And it's way safer to get Chicken Pox as a kid than an adult (if you it catch Chicken Pox as an adult it can leave you sterile,) so parents used to hold Chicken Pox parties for their kids to develop immunity.

I think that everyone under 50 without a preexisting condition should have been encouraged and to intentionally catch it, and have the opportunity to do so; and agree to stay in quarantine for 2 weeks. As far as I can tell, the biggest problem with C0VlD-19 is the asymptomatic and presymptomatic people that don't even know that they have it spreading it to those vulnerable populations.

So the biggest problem is people having it without knowing.

If you intentionally catch it, you pretty much know you have it. You suck it up for 2 weeks, you likely need no hospital care. Then you just go about your life after it's over.

 

[ChrisV]

@Kak

I'm obviously a huge fan of Capitalism, but I F*cking love Slavoj Zizek. I don't agree with everything, but he definitely makes you think.

Jordan Peterson tried debating him thinking he was a Marxist and went into the conversation ready to tear him a new a**hole, but as the conversation went on you just see Peterson start to become fascinated – despite breing a rabid capitalist. He went into the conversation thinking 'who is this idiot people want me to debate and ended up leaving the conversation having a great deal of respect for him.

Zizek/Peterson: Official Video

 

[DeletedUser0287]

As far as I can tell, the biggest problem with C0VlD-19 is the asymptomatic and presymptomatic people that don't even know that they have it spreading it to those vulnerable populations.

So the biggest problem is people having it without knowing.

If you intentionally catch it, you pretty much know you have it. You suck it up for 2 weeks, you likely need no hospital care. Then you just go about your life after it's over.

Isn’t this contradicting? First you say, the problem is that people don’t know that they have it because they are asymptomatic which could spread to others. Hence the lockdown of “healthy people” that everyone is against here.

Then you later say, if you “intentionally” catch it (I am assuming you mean forcing yourself in a group of people with known C0VlD-19), you pretty much know you have it? But then again if you intentionally get it, you could still be asymptomatic. So you wouldn’t really know if you have it.

 

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[DayIFly]

Sorry for the ignorance, but how are people being this depressed. Aren’t people getting $600/week on top of regular unemployment and those stimulus checks? This money is much more than what some of these people are making when working.

Also, what do you guys think about Italy? They didn’t bother locking down and didn’t they get wrecked?

I think it's more about the social consequences. Loneliness and having nothing to do exacerbate depression. All this fear-mongering also exacerbates depression. I have a sneaking suspicion that social engineering is at play here, because they constantly talk about how things will change forever. Breaking up meaningful relationships and getting the masses to a more dysfunctional state where they will spend more money compensating to fill their inner voids.

 

[Inimitable]

Isn’t this contradicting? First you say, the problem is that people don’t know that they have it because they are asymptomatic which could spread to others. Hence the lockdown of “healthy people” that everyone is against here.

Then you later say, if you “intentionally” catch it (I am assuming you mean forcing yourself in a group of people with known C0VlD-19), you pretty much know you have it? But then again if you intentionally get it, you could still be asymptomatic. So you wouldn’t really know if you have it.

I think he means if you purposely expose yourself, then you should assume you have it even if asymptomatic - and thus quarantine yourself. Of course, not everyone who would then quarantine would actually have it, but it would reduce asymptomatic transmission a lot.

As far as the depression and suicides now - it's not about stimulus money. Business owners are losing everything, but not only that, everyone's mental health is suffering. It's not healthy to lock ourselves up and limit contact with loved ones and friends. I can definitely say that I feel like I'm about to go crazy right now - I miss spending time with my parents and friends, and I haven't been able to do anything fun or see anyone outside of my house for months (except for my OB appointments since I'm currently pregnant).

My 5-year-old daughter hasn't left the house since March, and her behavior is outrageous. This is so unhealthy for her, to not have any social interaction with anyone her age. Not to mention the fact that she has to be really confused and scared about the virus everyone keeps talking about.

 

[ChrisV]

Isn’t this contradicting? First you say, the problem is that people don’t know that they have it because they are asymptomatic which could spread to others. Hence the lockdown of “healthy people” that everyone is against here.

Then you later say, if you “intentionally” catch it (I am assuming you mean forcing yourself in a group of people with known C0VlD-19), you pretty much know you have it? But then again if you intentionally get it, you could still be asymptomatic. So you wouldn’t really know if you have it.

See this:

If you intentionally catch it, you pretty much know you have it. You suck it up for 2 weeks, you likely need no hospital care. Then you just go about your life after it's over.

One thing people should know about me is I am intentionally very very very exact with words. I make it a point to try to be as exact as possible with language. You'd be surprised at how many problems this helps you avoid.

If you're in a group with known C0VlD-19 cases and you're intentionally trying to catch it, I'd say you're about 99% likely to catch it. So you would do that, and stay home even if you're showing no symptoms - because the chance you're asymptomatic is pretty high (i haven't been keeping up with it, but the last study I saw said it could have been as much as 90% of all carriers were asymptomatic.)

I think he means if you purposely expose yourself, then you should assume you have it even if asymptomatic - and thus quarantine yourself. Of course, not everyone who would then quarantine would actually have it, but it would reduce asymptomatic transmission a lot.

Yea, perfect. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

I think it's more about the social consequences. Loneliness and having nothing to do exacerbate depression. All this fear-mongering also exacerbates depression. I have a sneaking suspicion that social engineering is at play here, because they constantly talk about how things will change forever. Breaking up meaningful relationships and getting the masses to a more dysfunctional state where they will spend more money compensating to fill their inner voids.

I think he means if you purposely expose yourself, then you should assume you have it even if asymptomatic - and thus quarantine yourself. Of course, not everyone who would then quarantine would actually have it, but it would reduce asymptomatic transmission a lot.

As far as the depression and suicides now - it's not about stimulus money. Business owners are losing everything, but not only that, everyone's mental health is suffering. It's not healthy to lock ourselves up and limit contact with loved ones and friends. I can definitely say that I feel like I'm about to go crazy right now - I miss spending time with my parents and friends, and I haven't been able to do anything fun or see anyone outside of my house for months (except for my OB appointments since I'm currently pregnant).

My 5-year-old daughter hasn't left the house since March, and her behavior is outrageous. This is so unhealthy for her, to not have any social interaction with anyone her age. Not to mention the fact that she has to be really confused and scared about the virus everyone keeps talking about.

I guess I am just an extreme introvert then...I got use to being alone when going hard in entrepreneurship, as I am working/researching all the time. I can comfortably have zero social interaction for months and be completely happy.

 

[Raoul Duke]

 

[DeletedUser0287]

I think the cause of increased suicide or depression is not the lockdown, but because people lack purpose.

What most people’s lives focus on is just getting drunk on the weekend, watch sports, etc. So essentially this was their purpose in life, but it has been taken away.

 

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[ChrisV]

I think the cause of increased suicide or depression is not the lockdown, but because people lack purpose.

What most people’s lives focus on is just getting drunk on the weekend, watch sports, etc. So essentially this was their purpose in life, but it has been taken away.

People find purpose in their work.

 

[DeletedUser0287]

People find purpose in their work.

This doesn't really apply to lower end jobs, no? When I had a minimum wage job, I never found purpose in sweeping floors. Entrepreneurs obviously find purpose in the their work. I always thought most just work to pay bills, not purpose.

 

[ChrisV]

This doesn't really apply to lower end jobs, no? When I had a minimum wage job, I never found purpose in sweeping floors. Entrepreneurs obviously find purpose in the their work. I always thought most just work to pay bills, not purpose.

No, I think even McDonalds employees find some purpose in their work. Sure if they were living out their destiny or whatever it would be an even greater sense of purpose, but I think even menial work provides a sense of purpose in comparison to unemployment.

 

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[Bearcorp]

Any chance we can trade @MoreValue out and bring back @Rivoli to the thread?

 

[DeletedUser0287]

Any chance we can trade @MoreValue out and bring back @Rivoli to the thread?

Just because you disagree with what I am saying doesn’t make me a bad poster. I mean do you expect everyone to hold 100% the same opinions as yours? And if people don’t have the same opinions, the world should banish them? Sounds like some dictatorship.

I don’t know how old you are, but any post against me you have liked. Maybe when you get older, you will have a more open mind.

Also, you do have the option to ignore...

edit: seems like you’re too much of a coward to reply back. And just speak about me in 3rd person every time.