The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[Inimitable]

Things like steroids would be expected to make the infection worse. By steroids I’m assuming you are talking about corticosteroids type steroids such as cortisone, prednisone, prednisolone, etc (not sex steroids like testosterone). Steroids do many things, but they suppress the immune system and make people susceptible to both contracting infections and make the severity and lethality of infections greater.

WARNING: do not just stop taking steroids without talking to your doctor. Steroids must be tapered off slowly, you can throw your body into steroid crisis if you just suddenly stop, and it can kill you.

What about in the case of asthma? My daughter uses Pulmicort through her nebulizer and she just had a Flovent inhaler prescribed to try. We are always instructed for her to use them at the first sign of any respiratory illness, since even common colds trigger major asthma issues for her (without the steroid inhalants, she has needed steroid injections and admission for oxygen treatments at the hospital).

Frustratingly, we had no trouble getting the inhaler, but for some reason, the pharmacy wasn't getting the prescription for the spacer to go with it. We finally got it tonight, and it's an adult spacer. She really needs a mask, because she has sensory issues and she is terrified of anything new. I know she won't put her mouth around the adult one. I ordered this one off Amazon, and I hope it'll do the trick: Amazon.com: Spacer for Kids.Includes String Bag.Medium Size: Kitchen & Dining

 

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[GIlman]

What about in the case of asthma? My daughter uses Pulmicort through her nebulizer and she just had a Flovent inhaler prescribed to try. We are always instructed for her to use them at the first sign of any respiratory illness, since even common colds trigger major asthma issues for her (without the steroid inhalants, she has needed steroid injections and admission for oxygen treatments at the hospital).

Frustratingly, we had no trouble getting the inhaler, but for some reason, the pharmacy wasn't getting the prescription for the spacer to go with it. We finally got it tonight, and it's an adult spacer. She really needs a mask, because she has sensory issues and she is terrified of anything new. I know she won't put her mouth around the adult one. I ordered this one off Amazon, and I hope it'll do the trick: Amazon.com: Spacer for Kids.Includes String Bag.Medium Size: Kitchen & Dining

I’m not a pulmonologist, so I would trust them when it comes to asthma treatment. My familiarity is more with oral steroids used in transplant and Chrons patients. Oral steroids are systemic, affecting the whole body, inhaled steroids may have a different dynamic as they are more localized to the lungs.

Many respiratory illnesses are upper respiratory, I’m not sure how things would change for someone with pneumonia as far as giving inhaler steroids. Wish I could be more helpful, but asthma care is quite outside of my area of expertise.

EDIT: Here is some information that should be helpful. https://community.aafa.org/blog/cor...-asthma-need-to-know?reply=563286946370680255

 

[Saavedra]

yeah but look at Tom hanks
he‘s fine.
his son went on insta and said his dad wasn’t even that sick
probably deflated a lot of concern about this

a lot of millennials are pissed they are getting laid off for the Kung flu

as they should be. they are paying the boomers life extension for the 80th time. go stay home yourselves boomers, we want to live and work!

 

[Suzanne Bazemore]

I would be more than happy to sacrifice all the material things I had if that kept my family safe. My family is infinitely more valuable to me than any amount of money. they are the only real asset that matters to me.

Yes. The only reason I want any amount of money anyway is to help my family and other people.

For anyone interested, I interviewed a small business expert (Georgetown University and University of Maryland professor who has written 26 books on all aspects of business). We talked about the economy, as well as the risks/opportunities for small business owners:

BiggerPockets Business Podcast 47: Coronavirus: Business Strategies to Adapt, Dangers to Heed, and Opportunities to Watch for with Andrew Sherman

C0VlD-19 has presented challenges for all—not the least of whom are business owners. Attorney and business expert Andrew Sherman shares his thoughts on where the economy goes next, what business owners can do today to best navigate the crises, and the crucial importance of risk management and...

www.biggerpockets.com

Thank you, @JScott! I am going to listen to this podcast tomorrow!

they made reference to New York already running out of ventilators. They also said that there were several previously healthy teen and early 20’s in ICU’s on ventilators.

This is concerning. I hope, now that the world is experiencing more cases, that this remains uncommon. I hope that lung damage caused by vape pens isn't widespread and doesn't make our young population more susceptible.

@Bekit, thank you for all the seed information. I bookmarked the heirloom seed page so I can check it out.

 

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[Sander]

Over 99% of coronavirus patients in Italy who died had other health problems

Of 355 fatalities examined by officials, only three had no prior medical conditions.

nypost.com

 

[tpf]

@Inimitable and for anyone else who's pregnant:

Coronavirus (COVID-19), pregnancy and women’s health | RCOG

This page is a resource for healthcare professionals. Get the latest updates and advice on C0VlD-19 related issues affecting obstetrics and gynaecology services.

www.rcog.org.uk

The link is to the Royal College of Obstetrician's and gynaecologists C0VlD-19 advice . It includes advice for both patients and doctors. The page will be updated as and when I think. I hope it helps.

 

[GIlman]

I’ve been reading this the last hour. It’s a leaked copy of the US Covid19 response plan. Probably the most direct honest source of what’s going on.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...367f758bec47cad361f/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

one thing I found shocking on page 4 they state that they assume this pandemic will last 18 months with multiple waves of illness, that’s what they are projecting. They also assume long term supply chain disruption as well.

Wonder how this will impact the election, can we even carry out an election, how will people respond if we can’t?

On page 22 they discuss the need to shift to crisis medical management which I described earlier as shifting care to those most likely to survive instead of the sickest like we do at the moment.

 

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[NovaAria]

Everyone is drinking the TV kool-aid and expecting life to go back to normal in two weeks. But as many have said before, I imagine that governments chose to ease people into this by saying "Its just for two weeks" then extending it again and again, rather than saying "Buckle up and huddle down and wait for a year and a half".

This is all, of course, assuming that there is no vaccine.
If this is indeed labmade, I imagine that a lot of research was already done before hand and the vaccine might be coming sooner than expected.

 

[Vigilante]

Saw the impact of the chaos up close and personal this morning. It's my kids birthday, so I slipped out early up to the local bakery to get her something to keep this day as normal as we can for her.

The baker saw me walk in, and immediately tears came to her eyes. Her business is off 80%, and with Easter services in doubt across the country, the thousands of dounts that were all pre-ordered and likely to not happen.

She might be 30 days away from financial disaster. They opened a few years ago, and got close to paying off their loans but the rent is coming due and the landlord will not offer any relief. The stress was palpable as I spoke with her for a few minutes. She's mainstream middle America. She's the toll this is taking on the people.

Overnight, they went from thriving to dead. No $1k stimulus check from the government is going to fix it. The ONLY thing that fixes it is if and when life can get back to normal.

All of their commercial business is gone. All of their church business is gone. All of their walk in business is gone. The only order she still receives daily... is from the hospital.

 

[Mattie]

I thought the quarantine was also to buy time for a vaccine to be developed. A lot is going to happen over the next 2 months. They are working very hard on drugs both to avoid being infected and making the infection less lethal. I don't think the quarantine is just to "flatten the curve" until a majority of people have survived it.

My guess is, they tell everyone to stay inside their homes for 4-6 weeks while they prepare the drugs. The virus should also be contained within 3 weeks. All the red tape and legal issues are going to be swept away. America is fully mobilizing like we did during WW2.

Imagine all the young people that have had to go fight wars like WW1 and WW2, this generation of young people is just being asked to stay inside and play video-games. They can't do that?

I predict that if "millenials" won't stay inside, some politician will say "You know, we could activate the Draft and send all these young people to Afganistan", and all these kids will shut right the F*ck up and go play World of Warcraft until the grownups have dealt with the virus.

Ha ha! Yes, both sides of my family were involved in WWI and WWII. My grandfather was shot in the knee. I think they have an easy life being creative, innovative, and not like they don't know how to play music, have art abilities, and other talents. They do more than just video games. Some of them like my son is into robotics, technology, engineering.

I think if crap happens the next week or so with these guns etc, they're going to be freaking out with everyone else.

 

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[Tossek]

For coming quarantines, I have a bucket list from reading, painting, writing some science chapters to learning ukelele. I am so looking forward to this .

 

[Vigilante]

I’ve been reading this the last hour. It’s a leaked copy of the US Covid19 response plan. Probably the most direct honest source of what’s going on.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...367f758bec47cad361f/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

one thing I found shocking on page 4 they state that they assume this pandemic will last 18 months with multiple waves of illness, that’s what they are projecting. They also assume long term supply chain disruption as well.

Wonder how this will impact the election, can we even carry out an election, how will people respond if we can’t?

On page 22 they discuss the need to shift to crisis medical management which I described earlier as shifting care to those most likely to survive instead of the sickest like we do at the moment.

Since it started circulating in the spring of 2009, H1N1 has infected about 100 million Americans, killing about 75,000 and sending 936,000 to the hospital, the CDC estimates.

Guess what? H1N1 is STILL CIRCULATING. I post that not to invoke fear, but calm. The fact that this strain of CoronaVirus will be around in 18 months is not a concern, because it will be contained. Hell... look at your bottle of spray Lysol... mentioning CoronaVirus. It's not new. We're on a wave here, but the wave will reach the beach, crash and dissipate.

This is the reason you weren't meant to read that internal, almost classified document. You can't take a single sentence like that and infer consequences to 18 months from now, for the election in November, or even for this summer. You have to keep it in a broader context. It would be optimistic to assume that the CoronaVirus will ONLY be around for 18 months, but that's probably because the world is going to attempt together to erradicate it. However, you're not going to be in a bunker 18 months from now and self distancing. The H1N1 pandemic officially lasted about a year, and that's probably the basis from which they drew this conservative estimate.

While H1N1 was new in humans at the time of the 2009 flu pandemic much of the world's population has now been exposed to it. You've most likely been exposed to it.

 

[Vigilante]

This is NOT the first pandemic we have seen in our lifetimes. Consider that this is the first pandemic in the era of social media, and as such both good and erroneous information has spread faster than the virus itself.

 

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[Madame Peccato]

I just came back from the store (I live in Italy)

- Before going to the store I went to the pharmacy to purchase masks, I bought 4 for 9€.
- There was hand sanitizer at the entrance of both the pharmacy and the store.
- The store also has gloves before entering the shopping area
- Most people in the store were wearing a mask, I'd say 8 - 9 out of 10.
- Shelves were full (It was 11 AM though)
- There was a queue to get in, but it wasn't too long. I had to wait for about 7 minutes.

That's it for today, see you again in two or three weeks when I have to go out and buy more groceries again. Lol.

 

[GIlman]

Since it started circulating in the spring of 2009, H1N1 has infected about 100 million Americans, killing about 75,000 and sending 936,000 to the hospital, the CDC estimates.

Guess what? H1N1 is STILL CIRCULATING. I post that not to invoke fear, but calm. The fact that this strain of CoronaVirus will be around in 18 months is not a concern, because it will be contained. Hell... look at your bottle of spray Lysol... mentioning CoronaVirus. It's not new. We're on a wave here, but the wave will reach the beach, crash and dissipate.

This is the reason you weren't meant to read that internal, almost classified document. You can't take a single sentence like that and infer consequences to 18 months from now, for the election in November, or even for this summer. You have to keep it in a broader context. It would be optimistic to assume that the CoronaVirus will ONLY be around for 18 months, but that's probably because the world is going to attempt together to erradicate it. However, you're not going to be in a bunker 18 months from now and self distancing. The H1N1 pandemic officially lasted about a year, and that's probably the basis from which they drew this conservative estimate.

While H1N1 was new in humans at the time of the 2009 flu pandemic much of the world's population has now been exposed to it. You've most likely been exposed to it.

I hope your right, but I genuinely believe you are extremely wrong. Please don’t take that personal, I have the utmost respect for you.

using H1N1 as a reference, about 1% of people required hospitalization. With CV it has been 20% based on all data we have, that would be 20 million hospitalized compared to H1N1. Death rate appears to be at least 1%, south Korea’s has been creeping up and is now > 1%, and for from everyone infected has cleared the illness. To put that in perspective, as many people are dying from CV on a % basis as were hospitalized for H1N1!!

From everything I’m hearing and seeing even young people are being hospitalized in very high numbers and many requiring ventilatory support. There is no indication that this pandemic is shaping up like H1N1 at all, health care facilities around the world are collapsing under the shear weight of patients. You simply can’t compare two different diseases like that.

Watch what happens in Washington and New York. I’m watching what happens, not listening to anyone. There are literally on the fly medical facilities being constructed around the country, in areas without big out breaks even yet. That never happened with H1N1. I know people concerting an office building in Tahoe to greatly expand their capacity. The military is repositioning floating hospital ships because hospitals in some areas are already filling up fast.

give it 10-12 days, that’s all it’s going to take based on things and patterns in other countries to see large medical centers here totally overwhelmed. The emails I’m seeing from hospital administrators and department leaders are unlike anything I have ever seen before. The shear mobilization of under skilled medical personal to fill more advanced Care roles because they are all we have. None of these actions point to this being anything like what most people in the public think....right now at least.

Put a reminder in your calendar to comment on March 31st, call me out in person on that day for being alarmist because nothing has happened and it’s like H1N1. I genuinely mean that. I sincerely believe that by then the scope of severity of this will be so apparent in such a short time that you won’t be able to write that...

 

[Vigilante]

I hope your right, but I genuinely believe you are extremely wrong. Please don’t take that personal, I have the utmost respect for you.

using H1N1 as a reference, about 1% of people required hospitalization. With CV it has been 20% based on all data we have, that would be 20 million hospitalized compared to H1N1. Death rate appears to be at least 1%, south Korea’s has been creeping up and is now > 1%, and for from everyone infected has cleared the illness. To put that in perspective, as many people are dying from CV on a % basis as were hospitalized for H1N1!!

From everything I’m hearing and seeing even young people are being hospitalized in very high numbers and many requiring ventilatory support. There is no indication that this pandemic is shaping up like H1N1 at all, health care facilities around the world are collapsing under the shear weight of patients. You simply can’t compare two different diseases like that.

Watch what happens in Washington and New York. I’m watching what happens, not listening to anyone. There are literally on the fly medical facilities being constructed around the country, in areas without big out breaks even yet. That never happened with H1N1. I know people concerting an office building in Tahoe to greatly expand their capacity. The military is repositioning floating hospital ships because hospitals in some areas are already filling up fast.

give it 10-12 days, that’s all it’s going to take based on things and patterns in other countries to see large medical centers here totally overwhelmed. The emails I’m seeing from hospital administrators and department leaders are unlike anything I have ever seen before. The shear mobilization of under skilled medical personal to fill more advanced Care roles because they are all we have. None of these actions point to this being anything like what most people in the public think....right now at least.

Put a reminder in your calendar to comment on March 31st, call me out in person on that day for being alarmist because nothing has happened and it’s like H1N1. I genuinely mean that. I sincerely believe that by then the scope of severity of this will be so apparent in such a short time that you won’t be able to write that...

I’ll take your medical understanding over mine any day

 

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[ChrisV]

Guys: something to think about... I was in the phone with my parents and they said they couldn’t deposit cash at the bank.

The reason being how unsanitary money is.

No problem with withdrawal yet, but it may be a good idea to have some cash on hand just in case. Disinfect of course.

Hide it somewhere in your home.

I mean I have no reason to believe debit cards will stop working but still not a bad idea.

 

[Ernman]

I’ve been reading this the last hour. It’s a leaked copy of the US Covid19 response plan. Probably the most direct honest source of what’s going on.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...367f758bec47cad361f/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

one thing I found shocking on page 4 they state that they assume this pandemic will last 18 months with multiple waves of illness, that’s what they are projecting. They also assume long term supply chain disruption as well.

Wonder how this will impact the election, can we even carry out an election, how will people respond if we can’t?

On page 22 they discuss the need to shift to crisis medical management which I described earlier as shifting care to those most likely to survive instead of the sickest like we do at the moment.

Having spent 25 years in the U.S. military, I've either helped write, plan or operated using many such plans. The "18 months with multiple waves of illness" you refer to on page 4 is an ASSUMPTION. In planning assumptions are gap fillers used in the absence of facts. What is not clear is the basis for the assumption. Sometimes these are science based, sometimes threat based, sometimes political. Without having assumptions, planning can't continue because there will be too many unknowns. During execution of the plan, the assumptions are routinely challenged and updated as facts become known.

WRT this leaked response plan. Do we assume it is accurate, the real plan? Or is it a fake? Until it is confirmed as real by a credible source, we can only make an assumption and then act accordingly.

I'm going to assume it is real and study it to see how I should adjust my personal risk factors and planning.

 

[Ernman]

as they should be. they are paying the boomers life extension for the 80th time. go stay home yourselves boomers, we want to live and work!

A very helpful comment. Fortunately, I know from experience, that not all millennials are like you.

 

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[ChrisV]

The "18 months with multiple waves of illness" you refer to on page 4 is an ASSUMPTION. In planning assumptions are gap fillers used in the absence of facts. What is not clear is the basis for the assumption.

Well the idea is that once you allow restrictions to relax, and people start rubbing elbows again, you’re back to square 1.

18 months is how long vaccine trials take to complete.

 

[GIlman]

Having spent 25 years in the U.S. military, I've either helped write, plan or operated using many such plans. The "18 months with multiple waves of illness" you refer to on page 4 is an ASSUMPTION. In planning assumptions are gap fillers used in the absence of facts. What is not clear is the basis for the assumption. Sometimes these are science based, sometimes threat based, sometimes political. Without having assumptions, planning can't continue because there will be too many unknowns. During execution of the plan, the assumptions are routinely challenged and updated as facts become known.

WRT this leaked response plan. Do we assume it is accurate, the real plan? Or is it a fake? Until it is confirmed as real by a credible source, we can only make an assumption and then act accordingly.

I'm going to assume it is real and study it to see how I should adjust my personal risk factors and planning.

I read that, and understood it was an assumption (they clearly state that), but the only way for that assumption to be changed is for it to be wrong. In other words we will only know it is wrong in hindsight. The truth is only known as a historical context.

By their very nature all predictions of the future are heavily steeped in assumptions. But assumptions are made for a reason, because with the knowledge we have today it is the most plausible conclusion. I’m not assuming all assumptions or predictions will play out, but if that is their assumption at the moment based on what we know, it is still of great concern.

If you read my past posts, I had already arrived at much the same conclusions more or less. I had said minimum quarantine would have to be 6-8 weeks, and even then I didn’t know how we bring people out of quarantine without starting another wave of infection. That’s what all the available data I see points to.

p.s. after you read it please give us your assessment since you are the expert reading this type of document, I’m curious what your view is.

 

[ChrisV]

Just because you're OK with millions of folks dying over a few % of GDP, doesn't mean that's OK for everyone else.

See how that works?

You've been removed from this thread for 1 week.

We understand your position, you've made it clear many, many times.

Maybe one week for now, it will change.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but while he drove me nuts and I wanted to strangle him numerous times, I found that someone playing Devil's Advocate made me think. I think he's somewhat right... if we could come up with some system of protecting the elderly and at-risk and just let the virus run it's course it would result in herd immunity and probably have less of an impact on the economy than a complete shutdown. Regardless of what we do, protecting the risk cases is one of the most important things we can do. I'm almost debating going to my parent's house and sitting at the end of the driveway to make sure they don't leave lol.

I agree that the ban should remain, just pointing out that it's sometimes extreme positions force you to think.

 

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[Gediger]

I think I’m done with this thread. After reading over 2000 post I’m wondering how we’re still alive. This is worse then any news outlet on tv, not healthy in any way.

 

[MTEE1985]

I think I’m done with this thread. After reading over 2000 post I’m wondering how we’re still alive. This is worse then any news outlet on tv, not healthy in any way.

To each their own. This thread and the insights of many people and specifically @GIlman is the only reason I anticipated my kids schools closings and I now have enough food and diapers at home as well as enough supplies for my in-laws who are in the high risk category and still did not take things as seriously and are now scrambling to catch up.

 

[Kshatriya]

 

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[lowtek]

I think I’m done with this thread. After reading over 2000 post I’m wondering how we’re still alive. This is worse then any news outlet on tv, not healthy in any way.

Unfortunately, this thread is far too rosy IMO. The virus is just the tip of the iceberg.

The past 60 years of failed financial and economic policy are going to come home to roost.

Economic free fall, the de facto collapse of the Republic, and war are all coming on the heels of this. People are thinking about 18 months of upheaval and misery, when the reality is that it's closer to 5 - 10 years.

This thread may very well be the only thing that saves your life as all this unfolds. No disrespect intended, but if you can't handle the stress of reading words on a page, you are going to be in deep trouble when the shit really hits the fan.

 

[AceVentures]

Messy dashboard - but I really like it. From John's Hopkins.

I know there are a number of ways to look at the numbers, but considering 9,115 deaths vs 84,506 recovered - That's starting to sound a whole lot like the 10% from the SARS outbreak. What we also know is that SARS infected fewer people (8k) in comparison to C0VlD-19 (222k). And many of those infections occured in a country with good healthcare (Canada), and that virus had stronger symptoms (could be isolated faster) and it was also less contagious. It had a 10% death rate. I can quickly see how the death rate could rise after hospitals get overrun.

View attachment 31321

• An epidemic of SARS affected 26 countries in 2003
• During the outbreak, it claimed 774 lives worldwide with 8,098 people infected (~10% fatality)
  • NOTE: In the early stages of the SARS epidemic, health officials estimated the mortality rate at less than 4%
• The case fatality ratio is estimated to be less than 1% in persons aged 24 years or younger, 6% in persons aged 25 to 44 years, 15% in persons aged 45 to 64 years, and greater than 50% in persons aged 65 years and older
• In 10 percent to 20 percent of cases, patients require mechanical ventilation
• Most patients develop pneumonia

 

[loop101]

I think he's somewhat right... if we could come up with some system of protecting the elderly and at-risk and just let the virus run it's course it would result in herd immunity and probably have less of an impact on the economy than a complete shutdown.

He was detracting from the thread by countering every post with his own opinion. How many times does he need to make his case? How many times do we need to read it? He was unwilling to accept that other people will have their own opinions. He should have just made his own thread called "CV19 is overblown" and argue ad nauseam with people there.

His opinion is fine, though I think it is short-sighted. Each day, it is becoming more obvious that young people are not as safe as they think they are.

 

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[Timmy C]

An interesting story about a 29 year old Australian woman contracting the virus, telling her experience.

Bridget was one of Australia's first coronavirus cases. She reveals what happened next and how sick she really got - ABC News

www.google.com

 

[MoneyDoc]

Saw the impact of the chaos up close and personal this morning. It's my kids birthday, so I slipped out early up to the local bakery to get her something to keep this day as normal as we can for her.

The baker saw me walk in, and immediately tears came to her eyes. Her business is off 80%, and with Easter services in doubt across the country, the thousands of dounts that were all pre-ordered and likely to not happen.

She might be 30 days away from financial disaster. They opened a few years ago, and got close to paying off their loans but the rent is coming due and the landlord will not offer any relief. The stress was palpable as I spoke with her for a few minutes. She's mainstream middle America. She's the toll this is taking on the people.

Overnight, they went from thriving to dead. No $1k stimulus check from the government is going to fix it. The ONLY thing that fixes it is if and when life can get back to normal.

All of their commercial business is gone. All of their church business is gone. All of their walk in business is gone. The only order she still receives daily... is from the hospital.

Had a similar interaction with my friends bakery. The look on his families face was disturbing. I felt so bad for them I bought out the whole breakfast bakeries they just baked. Guess what, he calls me now to tell me I was the only customer today (they open 6 am to 10 am).

This is all because of the unnecessary panic. Literally ruining lives. It’s a freaking VIRUS. The response from people is like we’ve never had a foreign particle infect humans. It’s a f*cking virus. Why is the media invoking unnecessary fear into sheep minded, pardon my words, idiots. This is getting out of hand. It’s a VIRUS. We don’t need C0VlD-19 internet doctors spewing their knowledge. It’s a VIRUS. A VIRUS. If you have tuberculosis, would you go and visit your grandma that has heart disease? Why are people acting as if this is something new. Humans have an IMMUNE SYSTEM for a reason. F*ck. If you’re immunocompromised you would stay home. This is the same for any outbreak. Why are people treating this like it’s judgment day. It’s NOT. Turn off the f*cking TV and get away from the MEDIA. I blame them for this f*cking mess.

I’m sorry guys. I can’t contain myself anymore. This ignorance by people is f*cking up more lives than this virus ever will. This is f*cked up. People are f*cked up. People need to wake the f*ck up. I don’t f*cking see Purell owners hoarding toilet paper. They are f*cking laughing at everyone. Calm the f*ck down. This is nothing different.