Money System - What Are You Investing That's Getting 5% Return?

[GlobalWealth]

[QUOTE="Cyriex, post: 540811, member: 35442]

Question for @GlobalWealth do you ever look into smaller international banks usually only operating in their country of origin? Deposit rates globally are obviously much more attractive than here even after you account for inflation differences and the risk of that financial institution. Stress tests I'd imagine would look much different than US banks. Are only citizens of these countries able to put money there? I heard not all of them allow for American clients. Additionally I've heard you can get some exposure through HSBC's Expat. Global rates: http://www.deposits.org/world-deposit-rates.html

[/QUOTE]

I'm not a huge fan of banks in general. I do prefer global diversification, but real estate, cash, private business and p2p is my preference.

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

 

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[H. Palmer]

I'm upping my P2P portfolio to cover my monthly expenses (around 500€) in the next couple of months.

30% at Mintos.com
30% at Twino.eu
40% at Estateguru.co

All the above are currently at 11-12% rates, around 10% after tax.

IMO, these 3 markets are the best and safest players ATM on the EU market.

Hi Phones, have you ever looked at Bondora?

They are claiming far superior returns. And are getting a lot of good press.

 

[Deleted35442]

Suspicion is good...these types of forums obviously attract a lot of bullshit...

I've met many forum members in person who know my story -- mostly back in 2008-2010 when I was more active here, but I still keep in touch with several old members as well. I don't think I ever did a formal introduction on the site, so here's the not-so-quick version for whomever is interested in my experience and expertise...

I have a BS/EE and an MBA and spent most of the second half of my corporate career at Microsoft doing Interactive TV/Media Center stuff, in what is now their Home & Entertainment Division (I started in middle management and left at Director-level). Most of my corporate career was spent doing Product and M&A. I was fortunate to get to spend time with both BillG and SteveB (those were the two "wealthiest" people I referenced), though I've been fortunate to spend my entire career with some of the smartest technical and business people in the world.

In 2006, I took a senior position at a small VOIP company called Tellme at a time when their investors were demanding a liquidity event. Not-very-coincidentally (Tellme recruited several ex-MSFT folks in a short time span), a year later we were acquired by MSFT for a lot of money -- the number was never publicly released (so I won't state it), but it was reported at about $1B. I waited a year, vested the first half of my stock and bonuses, cashed out and "semi-retired" (not enough money to start a foundation and move to an island for the rest of my life, but enough that I could do whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted). My fiancee at the time (now wife) was fortunate to be an early eBay employee and managed internal communications for Meg Whitman and the senior staff for many years. She cashed out at the same time I did, and in 2008 we moved to the east coast to get married and start a family.

I get bored easily and have done a lot of different things the past 8 years. My wife and I spent several years building a relatively passive business (almost completely passive now) flipping houses and building new construction (we've done 200+ projects in the past few years and the beginning of that business was chronicled in detail here on this site). I also do real estate lending, some small angel investing in the tech space and sit on a few Advisory Boards. I like to write and teach, so -- as you pointed out -- I wrote two real estate books, one of which was a best-seller in its category for nearly 3 years; not really sure why you say I "peddle my books" in my signature -- they're not mentioned in my signature and other than threads where the fact is applicable, I didn't think I ever really mention them. Regardless, I'm very proud of them -- they were self-published and have sold over 70K copies.

I haven't worked full-time in 8 years (been trying to enjoy my two little kids as much as possible before they're in school full-time), but last year, I launched a full-time business with a partner. We've developed a Tech/Ed product to bring STEM/Engineering education to middle- and high-school students (product launch in a couple weeks). I consider this by-far the biggest challenge of my career -- we've put a lot of money into the business and I'm starting to call in favors to many old colleagues in Silicon Valley. In a couple years, I have a feeling that I'm going to have either a great success story or a great set of lessons learned. Perhaps both...

Anyway, there's my introduction -- 8 years late. My life has always been an open book, so happy to answer any questions...

Btw, I don't mean any of the above as bragging -- I'm just trying to clear up any skepticism about my experience and expertise. I've been tremendously fortunate in my career (and life), and I just like to give back when I can...

Not at all, I don't see it as "bragging". Thanks for sharing. As @Captain Jack and I know all too well these forums do attract a lot of bullshit as we're seeing over in the "I Hope You Fail" thread and elsewhere. But that's all I'll say. I remember my grandmother giving to me maybe 5 years ago these VHS tape based series that someone she knew bought as an impulse buy and never opened. She gave them to me just being thoughtful, one of those "No Money Down! Get started in Real Estate now" type and have since seen many other gurus appear in this space.

Funny that you mention working with Bill Gates. One of my former colleagues that I worked with when I was working in "High Finance" also worked with Bill Gates during an internship he took at The Gates Foundation. He told me the guy had all sorts of quirks about him in-person.

I've followed these areas somewhat as well. Secondary school outreach to get students in STEM. There was an episode on Shark Tank that was doing this as well just for women I recall. http://www.stemcenterusa.com/

Thanks for clarifying. Electrical Engineering is no cake walk by the way. Much respect.

 

[Phones]

I look at it as the safety net that allows you to take greater risks.

This.

Also, what I invest in my

Hi Phones, have you ever looked at Bondora?

They are claiming far superior returns. And are getting a lot of good press.

Bondora = Shit

Their claims about returns = Shit

Get into Facebook "Bondora Fellows" , Bondora has some serious credibility issue with the numbers they publish, they always finds clever ways to calculate returns in a way that hides their mess up. They f*cked up pretty back with Spanish and I think Finish Loans, the only decent performing loans are Estonian.

I choose to stay away, and I advise in that way as well.

 

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[Phones]

so here's the not-so-quick version for whomever is interested in my experience and expertise...

@JScott you and your life-story deserve a proper Intro/thread buddy (if you have time for it )

 

[H. Palmer]

This.

Also, what I invest in my


Bondora = Shit

Their claims about returns = Shit

Get into Facebook "Bondora Fellows" , Bondora has some serious credibility issue with the numbers they publish, they always finds clever ways to calculate returns in a way that hides their mess up. They f*cked up pretty back with Spanish and I think Finish Loans, the only decent performing loans are Estonian.

I choose to stay away, and I advise in that way as well.

Great, this saves me a lot of time.

 

[Ubermensch]

The question is, what is your number? Ten million? Hundred million? Billion? Lots of guys here have simple wealth goals. They don't want to be broke and don't want to work again. You and I @Ubermensch are the ones that want even more.

This.

One of the few good scenes from your least favorite Wall Street movie.

 

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[Becauseimbatman]

I'm determined to figure out what my father's financial advisor is doing that makes 30% to 50% return consistently. Those numbers are unheard of!

30-50% return is a red flag. and you should get out and run as fast as you can. its normally a scam. i mean really bro think about it. 30-50% return?

 

[Draven Grey]

30-50% return is a red flag. and you should get out and run as fast as you can. its normally a scam. i mean really bro think about it. 30-50% return?

Thanks for your concern. It's not a scam. I don't care at this point that no one believes me, partly because it is pretty unbelievable, and partly because I'm tired of trying to defend the man - who is a dear friend of my dad's. He has been extremely open about every part of it, and I have seen it support my parents for the last 2 years.

 

[MTF]

I'm upping my P2P portfolio to cover my monthly expenses (around 500€) in the next couple of months.

30% at Mintos.com
30% at Twino.eu
40% at Estateguru.co

All the above are currently at 11-12% rates, around 10% after tax.

IMO, these 3 markets are the best and safest players ATM on the EU market.

What's your breakdown when it comes to the types/terms of loans?

 

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[Phones]

What's your breakdown when it comes to the types/terms of loans?

Any specific platform or in general?

Twino I used to invest all in 1 month with buyback. The secondary market is very active, so now I go for longer loans with higher returns since its easy to sell if needed. I wish I did this sooner, I still have some 15.5 percent loans that I picked up awhile ago. I had to sell around 6k of loans in Twino and was able to do it in less than 2 days, but you have to sell one by one, so if you-re planning to sell, uppen the maximum investment in each loan so that you dont end up with 10000 loans to sell.

Mintos Im still analysing carefully, I removed my entire investment when I needed it for inventory. I placed my initial deposit now on MOBO Car loans, 70 month at 13.5 percent. The next one will be from a diferent originator, since they are the ones providing the buyback, better diversify. And I will go for shorter terms because Mintos market seems much less active.

EstateGuru I will split in 10k chunks in a total of 3. Enough to diversify a bit the risk, and enough to make it worthwhile to take part in any lawsuit action that could be needed if things go south. There have been some loans with higher rates for investors that put over 10k.

 

[MTF]

Thank you, @Phones.

Yes, it's very easy to sell loans on Twino. I did it in a few hours a few months ago when I wanted to liquidate.

Mintos is definitely less liquid. I haven't looked into car loans yet and instead just went for 1-month loans on both sites. Would you suggest investing in car or mortgage loans instead of short-term personal loans?

I guess I should diversify a bit on Mintos as Twino doesn't offer outside loans so all come with their buyback guarantee only. I'm also waiting for new investment opportunities on EstateGuru.

 

[MTF]

@Phones, have you heard of any interesting P2P lending opportunities (ideally with a buyback guarantee) outside of Europe? It would be nice to diversify geographically.

The only one I know is https://www.silverbullion.com.sg/AboutLoansForLenders.aspx (P2P lending with precious metals as collateral), but yields are super low there (currently the best one is 3.25% per year for a USD loan).

Have you heard about https://www.fundingsocieties.com/investing?

As for European P2P lending sites, I just found yet another one from Riga: https://www.viventor.com What's up with all these sites using the exact same platform and located in the same city?

 

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[GMSI7D]

I have an exponential mentality, my good man.

yes . you get the point man. you are one of the few.

people here don't understand real assets.

real assets are things that people in power , the market, the bank, the economy, the financial crash and so on cannot take from you.

money does not fit this definition but your skills and mindset do fit it.

if you can get people to help you in a cashless society, which is coming, then you have real assets : your mindset and skills.

so you must invest in YOU, not in this economic system wich is a scam as everyone will see within a few months.

i guarantee you that the financial crash will be the worse one. ever.

i promise you.

 

[V8Bill]

I was talking with the bank the other day, and for kicks I asked her what the current rate was on a 6 month CD for $50,000.

Her answer? The bank was offering .05%.

1/2 of 1/2 of 1%.

I always check the bank rates and generally they're pretty low down here in Australia with many banks offering less than 1% but our reserve bank has set our default interest rates at a historically low 1.75% and yet the bank I trade at is offering...

a variable rate of 2.40% p.a. on our High Interest Account^ for balances up to $1,000,000 (on higher balances lower interest rates apply)

This is an excellent rate given the low default rate. At 1m deposit that's $25,000 (about $480 a week) which isn't exactly wealthy living but it's double the social security rate down here so it's a start. I'm not sure how much lower "larger amounts" would earn (I'll find out) but as soon as the rates start to come back into the market (at 51 years old I've seen cycles as high as 18% default rates - this is the lowest I've ever seen) the 5% should be easily available. Last year I saw walk-in term-deposit rates as high as 4.35% and that's my ultimate target - to live off bank interest at almost zero risk as soon as possible.

 

[MattCour]

@biophase @zr1 @MJ DeMarco If interest rates continue to go lower, how do you think that'll impact your dividend yields in your portfolios? Are you simply dollar cost averaging?

 

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[100k]

Maybe he means to invest into R & D and technology companies that are working with graphene.

...*cough* pay attention to where people are investing their money (renewable energy... and pay attention to the companies that will serve that space).

 

[illmasterj]

5.68%: http://www.reitsweek.com/2016/07/first-reit-confirms-listing-of-5-68-perpertual-securities.html

Opportunity is everywhere, granted at different levels of risk..

 

[MTF]

What a cool P2P lending product from Mintos.com:

We are truly pleased to announce that we are now working with nonbank lender AgroCredit which issues farmers loans secured with grain sale contracts. This collaboration between AgroCredit and Mintos will provide Latvian farmers improved access to financing.

AgroCredit's clients are primarily grain farmers, who require financing for agricultural inputs, including seeds, fertilizer, chemicals, or fuel costs. Future grain sale contracts with AgroCredit partners act as collateral for these loans; once grain is delivered, funds are transferred to the lender's account, paying down the farmer's liabilities.

AgroCredit will place loans on Mintos marketplace with principal from EUR 5 000 to 100 000 and a repayment deadline aligned with the end of the season, e.g. fall of the year in question. In some cases, long-term loans with a repayment period of 5 years are also issued. Considering these are low risk loans secured with grain-supply contracts, the expected average net annual return will be 7-8%.

AgroCredit clients are both small and medium-sized farms, as well as large farms with several thousand hectares under management. Since beginning of operations in 2011, AgroCredit has issued loans to several hundred farmers in Latvia — to date providing more than EUR 20 million in loans.

Farming is one of the leading export industries in Latvia. Last year Latvia's total grain harvest reached 3 million tons, of which the majority was exported. Agricultural export demand, coupled with AgroCredit's lending process where repayment is received from grain delivery implies low credit risk for Agrocredit loans. This is evidenced by the fact that over the fast five years of operations, AgroCredit has not written off a single loan.

In evaluating client applications, AgroCredit analyzes the farms' previous work, financial indicators, crops (area, location, culture, previous harvests and expected harvest, etc.), as well as requests recommendations from grain sellers. Loan usually does not exceed 50% of the expected value of the harvest. AgroCredit's loan portfolio as of Dec. 31, 2015 was EUR 4.1 million, but it is expected that by the end of the season, this will exceed EUR 6 million.

To date, necessary financing for Agrocredit business operations has been attracted from shareholders investments, as well as loans from banks, investment fund and private investors.

7-8% on a low risk secured loan sounds really good.

 

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[tigerscent]

What about gold? Rarely have the fundamentals been so in favour of the yellow metal.

 

[MTF]

Any updates from anyone?

As for European P2P lending, I liquidated my entire Twino portfolio. For the past couple of months they've been adding very few new loans and things got too silent for my liking. I was able to liquidate my entire portfolio within an hour or so (because there were almost zero other loans to invest in at the time I offered mine for sale). Unlike Mintos, Twino is the one offering the buyback guarantee (and not each loan originator), so I didn't feel comfortable to continue holding my money there. Now I'm back to just Mintos and EstateGuru (which I like the most due to the high interest and the real estate as collateral).

 

[G-Man]

Any updates from anyone?

As for European P2P lending, I liquidated my entire Twino portfolio. For the past couple of months they've been adding very few new loans and things got too silent for my liking. I was able to liquidate my entire portfolio within an hour or so (because there were almost zero other loans to invest in at the time I offered mine for sale). Unlike Mintos, Twino is the one offering the buyback guarantee (and not each loan originator), so I didn't feel comfortable to continue holding my money there. Now I'm back to just Mintos and EstateGuru (which I like the most due to the high interest and the real estate as collateral).

Nothing much any more. I've still got some HYT and I'm winding down the lending club account as the notes pay off. I tried to sell them on their platform just to get out of that dogshit, but as I should have suspected, nobody wants to buy that garbage at anything but a deep discount.

Right now my "money system" consists of buying receivables. I haven't had the time or energy to really look for anything else. Maybe middle of this year.

 

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[Ikke]

I'm stilll using mintos and increased my investment. I'm on the proccess of selling all my loans without a buyback guarantee. While the loan originators do collect when a loan goes bad they don't aways succeed. Furthermore I don't want to be in the middle of this quite often lengthy proccess.
I like the fact that I'm investing with the proven loan originators and the liquidity of the secundary market. So far very happy with it.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Any updates from anyone?

5% is about to become much easier as interest rates are going up. Soon we might be talking about 7 or 8%.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

5% is about to become much easier as interest rates are going up. Soon we might be talking about 7 or 8%.

I hope so.

I remember when I used to get 5% just in a bank savings account haha.

Those were the days...

 

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[unaided]

I've been looking at all the Vanguard ETFs and nothing gives around 5%, not the VIG or anything in dividends.

The only things giving 5% would be a really extremely risky bond for corporations or international bonds.

What are you investing in that gives 5% returns for your money system?

Projected US GDP growth for the next decade is much lower than years past, as such investors are willing to pay more for less return which has driven up prices enough that you're not getting the same yields.

At "2%" inflation, a 3% yield, will also see on average a 2% rise in stock price based on inflation alone, so you technically get 5% that way too.

Also consider both Distribution yield and SEC yield, and while SEC yield is more standardized, sometimes distribution yield may be more accurate

 

[unaided]

Vanguard is like the holy church of asset management. They're some of the more conservative ETFs. Oil will rebound. I'd long VelocityShares 3X Long Crude Oil ETN, ticker UWTI. This ETF triple leverages your position. Additionally, I see people here say get real estate....Does anyone actually want to be a landlord? Buy REITs. Add RSO specifically, yielded just under 15% with a low debt-to-equity ratio. If all this is still confusing, look into Motif | Smart Investing Made Simple which is like a community investing platforms where you invest in "themes" which are industry-segregated bundles of stocks up to 30. Do any of this, and you'll be laughing. Due to all the talk of this, I think I'm going to write a thread on this and hope it's marked gold. Cheers.

P.S: No to P2P vs. a professionaly-managed REIT.

You may want to be a landlord as part of your business, as it gives you control, 100% return for your efforts, and the barriers of entry are a good thing as we know. It's not a passive freedom strategy, although it can be with management, but also has risks of lawsuits, acts of God, and lack of liquidity - things you may not want to deal with anymore.

Some states have taken away much of your control as a landlord and that would need to be considered in terms of tenant rights and so forth. So when it comes to then investing your $5-10 mil, then yeah a REIT would be a better way with more liquidity, dividends, etc, but you do give up control as someone else is using your money and deciding what to do with it, only 75% of the money has to be real estate involved, and you get 90% of the return so there are trade-offs to both approaches.

 

[fastbo]

Landlord for residential homes is not passive income. It's a full time job managing sidewalkers and their problems.

I'm in real estate finance, particularly existing mortgages. I consider a low return a 10% yield secured by a property with 50-60% loan to value ratio... meaning $50k-60k loan on a $100k house. I regularly sell to IRA investors who use their self directed IRAs to buy at a 10-12% yield. There are investments out there that will work for you. Nice thing about secured assets are that you have an asset worth MORE than your investment as collateral. You have zero collateral with the stock market.

You may want to be a landlord as part of your business, as it gives you control, 100% return for your efforts, and the barriers of entry are a good thing as we know. It's not a passive freedom strategy, although it can be with management, but also has risks of lawsuits, acts of God, and lack of liquidity - things you may not want to deal with anymore.

Some states have taken away much of your control as a landlord and that would need to be considered in terms of tenant rights and so forth. So when it comes to then investing your $5-10 mil, then yeah a REIT would be a better way with more liquidity, dividends, etc, but you do give up control as someone else is using your money and deciding what to do with it, only 75% of the money has to be real estate involved, and you get 90% of the return so there are trade-offs to both approaches.

 

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[Jakawan]

Landlord for residential homes is not passive income. It's a full time job managing sidewalkers and their problems.

I'm in real estate finance, particularly existing mortgages. I consider a low return a 10% yield secured by a property with 50-60% loan to value ratio... meaning $50k-60k loan on a $100k house. I regularly sell to IRA investors who use their self directed IRAs to buy at a 10-12% yield. There are investments out there that will work for you. Nice thing about secured assets are that you have an asset worth MORE than your investment as collateral. You have zero collateral with the stock market.

I'm looking for this service in Oklahoma City! I am willing to offer 10% interest on 6-12 month loans for flipping and 6% interest for acquisition of rental properties or refinances 15-30 year Amortization with a 5 year balloon.
I would like to borrow 70% of appraisal value for acquiring properties, and 80% of appraisal for refinance deals (post rehab & already performing)

Can you help me find this? I have a guy I'm using now at 9% but he's out of cash. Had another lady I was using but she's drastically raised her interest and fees to now be like hard money..

 

[fastbo]

I'm looking for this service in Oklahoma City! I am willing to offer 10% interest on 6-12 month loans for flipping and 6% interest for acquisition of rental properties or refinances 15-30 year Amortization with a 5 year balloon.
I would like to borrow 70% of appraisal value for acquiring properties, and 80% of appraisal for refinance deals (post rehab & already performing)

Can you help me find this? I have a guy I'm using now at 9% but he's out of cash. Had another lady I was using but she's drastically raised her interest and fees to now be like hard money..

Network with the IRA crowd. A lot of self directed IRAs will put on meetings for investors. See if you could go or sponsor an event.
Otherwise it's mostly networking. Your 9% guy is well below market. He is out of cash either because he's below market and word got out he's lending at 9% or he feels bad telling you he wants more than 9% now.
For rentals there are several providers. B2R finance is one, there are several others in that space. You can also get financed personally. If you have a spouse, each of you get the loans in each of your names (don't sign joint for the loans).